Clinton Sparks:
And that's another problem that a lot of people don't understand is that the job comes with many different titles, it's not just guy in the studio making the record. You got to be a good person, man. You got to understand business, you got to understand people and you got to treat people right. By the way, it doesn't happen overnight either. So you can't expect to be, everyone think you're the greatest thing in a month or a year. This is over years of putting in the work and being conscious and caring enough to put that much greatness and to help other people.

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high quality music but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker:
All right. I'm super excited to be here today with Clinton Sparks. He is a Grammy nominated producer, DJ, songwriter, radio personality, and entrepreneur. And when I first found out that I was going to booking an interview with him, I was like, "Wait, is this the Clinton Spark?" And I found out, yes, it actually is the Clinton Spark. This dude is massively successful in multiple different areas too, which is really cool. He's worked with multi-platinum artists like Lady Gaga, Pitbull, DJ Snake, written and produced songs with Big Sean, 2 Chainz, Ludacris.

Michael Walker:
And now, he's also an author, as if that wasn't enough yet, he decided to also write a book called How to Win Big in The Music Business. And so I've had a chance to start reading the look via Audible. And so I've gotten acquainted so far, but I haven't gone all the way through the book. So I think that throughout this interview, we're about to get familiar.

Clinton Sparks:
Yes.

Speaker 3 (Clinton Sparks):
Get familiar.

Michael Walker:
I was thinking, "Okay, there's a good chance that that's going to pop out."

Clinton Sparks:
Well, I also, I'm pretty perturbed that your audience that's watching did not applaud with an intro, it's quite rude. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Michael Walker:
Dude, I never would've guessed that you are like a radio DJ or anything like that, so super shocked. Man, I'm super excited to talk today, and I think that from what I understand from you from reading the beginning of the book so far and just seeing your success, really I think that you have an incredible story and really overcome a lot of adversity throughout your life. And so I thought that today would be a great opportunity to really just peel back the curtain and talk about what made you able to overcome that adversity and how did you achieve this level of success when a lot of people when there's adversity, usually it's the opposite way, but then there's certain people it's like, "You really you can pull through and you can actually use it as fuel."

Michael Walker:
So man, I'm really excited to be able to interview today. And first of all, I just want to say thanks for taking time to be here.

Clinton Sparks:
Thank you.

Michael Walker:
And I'd love to hear just a little bit more about your story for anyone here who's listening right now. Could you just share a little bit about where you started from and how you were able to accomplish what you have?

Clinton Sparks:
Sure. Because it's funny or it's great that you would set it up like that because a lot of times people have guests on their shows and you're like, "You should listen to them because they're awesome at this," Or, "They've made money doing this." Or, "They're successful at that." And I think the real magic lies in how they got there, how they did it and how difficult it might have been, because that's the real story, because realistically, anybody can be successful if they have the right tool and understand people, and understand what people need, and understand how to get to those things.

Clinton Sparks:
And really the difficult part is most people just don't understand what path to take to get to those places. And that's where you have podcasts like this and leaders that give speeches and keynote speakers and stuff. But I think it's really important... I know me, for instance, I'm not going to listen to somebody that I can't relate to, or I'm not going to listen to somebody that hasn't gone through what I went through, or I'm not going to listen to somebody that hasn't accomplished the things that I'm trying to accomplish. I don't want opinions, I don't want your personal taste, I don't want any of that stuff. I want facts, figures.

Clinton Sparks:
I want tangible things that either you went through and I can connect with and now I'm like, "Oh, if he did it because of this, I know that that's a way for me to make it." So it's really important for people to understand where somebody came from, not just what makes them awesome or what they're doing great today. So thank you for allowing me to set the stage at the beginning, because I might not listen any further if I listen to someone and they're like, "I had all the money in the world when I was born and my dad did this, and I had this, and all the opportunities were given to me, and therefore, now I'm a Titan."

Clinton Sparks:
It's like, "Yeah, of course you are. You were born for success." So somebody like me that was the opposite of that, someone that was brought into a broken home, we were broke, cockroaches, welfare, food stamps, alcoholic father, watched him almost kill my mom. Then he left us and my mother had two jobs, and I was bullied and lonely as a kid, then I was sexually abused in my home. So it was pretty difficult childhood, but at the time, you don't know you're going through a difficult, it's all you know. So you don't know like, "Oh, there's a better life than this." So it's normal to you, I guess, as an adult as abnormal, it may be when you look back, at the time, it's normal, or you don't know better, so to speak.

Clinton Sparks:
And then when you get older, you start realizing either these are the things that broke me or these are the things that made me. Some people that will go through some of the things I went through may turn to alcohol or drugs, or turn to a life of crime, which I did for several years. Or some people use it as tools to understand how to navigate the world better, which I ultimately ended up doing. So I went through that stuff as a kid and then through my teenage years, I was a criminal, stealing cars, robbing houses, sticking people up, just doing all that stuff as a kid. But I didn't do it because it was cool or it was the end thing or I learned from somebody else, I truly did it out of survival.

Clinton Sparks:
Nobody showed me, I just became an awesome criminal as a kid. And I'm not proud of that by the way either, and I never even told anybody this until 2014 because I wasn't proud of it. And especially coming up in hip hop, I could have earned some stripes by talking about how I used to stick people up and rob them for their money and dah, dah, dah and like, "Oh man, he's real." Yeah, real whack. You know what I mean? That's how I looked at it and really misguided. And anybody that thinks that that's cool or it's lit to do some like dirt or a crime or get away with some crazy shit, it's not, man, it's fucking whack.

Clinton Sparks:
And some people have no choice or feel like they had no choice because they don't know any other options. Of course, I had other choices, but I didn't know they existed because nobody was showing me other choices. The real assholes are the ones that can see other choices but choose to take this route because it's the easier route. It's easier to stick somebody up or rob somebody than to do something noble or honorable that's going to do right for you, your family and people around you to make an honest buck. By the way, all this time, I'm also in my bedroom trying to make music, trying to DJ, trying to emulate stuff.

Clinton Sparks:
And my mom had a stereo system that I used to hold the photo button and press auxiliary and that was my crossfader. So I was always a hip hop fan. It's weird because when I was a kid, I would read Circus Magazine, Word Up! Magazine, Fangoria Magazine and Mad Magazine. I was a kid that liked comedy, horror movies, heavy metal and hip hop. I wasn't even one person. You know what I mean? I was like five people in one my whole life. And then even when I was a criminal, I was still a nice guy. I know that sounds stupid to say like, "Well, nice people don't rob people." But I did it with care.

Clinton Sparks:
And to give an example, when I would take orders to rob houses and someone was like, "I need a video camera, a VCR," if I walked into a house and they had all that, I wouldn't take it all from one house. I would just take the VCR, then go to another house and get a TV, because the good guy in me didn't want someone to come home who works really hard and be completely wiped out. It's one thing if you come home and be like, "What the fuck is my VCR?" That sucks, but you're not devastated because everything you worked hard for is gone. So I always cared about people even when I was in positions where I wasn't doing right in life.

Clinton Sparks:
And by the way, I'll jump back and forth, the reason I revealed it for the first time in 2014 is because I was commissioned by Deutsch NY, which is Donny Deutsch's company marketing firm who was hired by Galderma, which was an acting queen for teenagers to create an anti-bullying song. So they asked me to produce and write this song with a band called The Mowgli's.

Michael Walker:
Oh, The Mowgli's?

Clinton Sparks:
Yeah, same. As you can see, I got The Mowgli's plaque up there, over 55 million streams of that song that I'm talking about right there. So in that 2014, the way we made that record is people would send in letters of their hardships of being bullied or going through tough times and we would use that as inspiration to write the song. So when I was reading these letters, I was crying reading these letters and I started realizing how lost so many people are. And then I realized I was in the same position but I found my way, and not everybody has the same tools in their toolbox to find the way.

Clinton Sparks:
So it was the first time I realized maybe I need to talk to all these kids about what I went through and what I did and how I've come out on the other side better. Because a lot of times people do, especially when you're young, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you think there's no hope, your world is so small, especially if you're in one town and one school, if the school's making fun of you, that's the only world you know, so to you, the whole world hates you, not realizing that's like a pin drop in the entire universe of people. And so I started revealing these things about myself and it was really liberating for me and useful for these kids to say, "Oh my God, I can't believe you went through this."

Clinton Sparks:
Because another reason why I never talked about at the dirt I did when I was young, because I didn't want some kid to say, "Well, look at Clinton, he was a fuck up and he's doing good now." You know what I mean? I didn't even graduate high school. I didn't want someone to say, "Well, Clinton didn't graduate high school and he's killing it so I can do the same thing as him." because it's super unique situation that I was in. I'm an anomaly, it's not normal that people go through what I went through, come out the way I came out, and then to get the same success that I have. It's unique. It's not normal.

Clinton Sparks:
So I didn't want anybody to think that it was an easy path to go down because you would have to go through all the things I went through and walk in my shoes. And look, we all have our own unique experiences in life. We all are affected in our own unique way from those experiences and deal with them in our own unique way. It's not one-size-fits-all. That's how I started and those are some of the adversities that I think you were talking about at the beginning that I had to overcome to get to where I'm at right now. Some people might be watching right now like, "Well, who is this dude? Where did he even get to? What do we even care about him for right now?"

Clinton Sparks:
And just to give a quick a pitch on who I am, I probably should have started with this, but what's up guys? My name is Clinton Sparks. I'm a Grammy nominator, multi-platinum producer, songwriter and DJ. I sold over 75 million records. I work with everybody from Big Sean to Rick Ross, to 2 Chainz, to T.I., to T-Pain, to Snoop Dogg, Ludacris, Pitbull, Gaga, Beyonce, Kanye, Eminem. I discovered and signed DJ Snake, introduced him to Lil Jon, You May Turn Down for What. We sold millions of records together. I helped Eminem launch Shade 45. I was P. Diddy's tour DJ. I was a host on E! News for five years, at Ryan Seacrest.

Clinton Sparks:
There's so many things I can just go on and on and on. I built my first e-commerce website in 2004, it was called mixunit.com. It was the world's biggest mix tape site, made $5 million the first year. I helped and discovered and marketed so many people that are your favorite artists that you wouldn't even know that I was behind. And then recently, I got into the gaming space about four and a half years ago and I helped build a company called FaZe Clan for these kids who were called Faze but they didn't have a business.

Clinton Sparks:
And I brought in all the rappers from Offset to Swae Lee, to Pitbull, DJ Paul, Yo Gotti, Mark Walberg, all these people into the space as investors. So I've done pretty good for myself throughout my life. And it's because of the shitty life I had in the beginning, because to understand how to deal with people, to understand emotions, to understand ego, to understand what drives people, what makes people tick, is to understand psychology. And if you understand people and what they need to feel or understand what they go through, then you understand sales, you understand marketing, you understand communication, you understand networking.

Clinton Sparks:
And once you can push aside your own ego and your own greed, if you can even acknowledge you have that which most people can't, but if you can, if you can internalize and be true to yourself and realize, "Shit, these are some of the things that are blocking me from getting the success that I wish to achieve. I'm in my own way," when you can delete yourself from those things and then care about other people as much, if not more about yourself, then you figured out the keys to winning big in life.

Michael Walker:
Holy cow, man. It's definitely a giant gold nugget of wisdom that you shared there. And man, that's super, super inspiring to see. I think that one question that comes up for me and I think that would be probably really valuable for people is having had this huge transformation from where you started from and what you've accomplished, there really is a major transformation, a major gap that like you said, you wouldn't necessarily want to emulate, it's rare. It's very unique. But one big question that comes up is, what would you say was the thing that shifted, it sounds like there's a lot of momentum.

Michael Walker:
There's a lot of momentum, a lot of energy, a lot of adversity that you went through. Would you say that there was a few moments or a few turning points where you had this momentum down this path, you were even living a life of a kind criminal for a little while? What would you say are some of those big moments or what do you attribute that took you off that path and really set you down the right path towards who you are now?

Clinton Sparks:
Well, there wasn't any monumental points that made me decide that I wanted to be a good person and help other people or that I wanted to be successful, or that I didn't want to feel a loser anymore. The one thing that changed me from going down the path of being the loser that I was, from being a criminal and stuff was I had happened to steal a bunch of... It feels so stupid to talk about the dumb shit I did, I happened to steal a bunch of snowblowers. So if you're from the Northeast, then you know what I'm talking about. And I had stored them behind the shed at my girlfriend at the time's house.

Clinton Sparks:
This has been my girlfriend for many years and her father found them and asked, "What are these?" And apparently according to her, he had called me a loser. And it was the first time that a male figure that I respected and cared about said that about me, and it made me feel I was a loser. I think I was 19 at the time. And it hit me hard because I never had someone that whose words would impact me that much. You know what I mean? So I was just running rogue throughout life on my own. And when he did that, it changed something inside me from going down the path of becoming a career criminal to then wanting to aspire to be successful in business.

Clinton Sparks:
So I immediately looked in the newspaper to find a job, and I see UPS was hiring. By the way, I was always an overachiever to workaholic, so even when I had part-time jobs, whether it was at a sub shop, whether it was at a mattress place on the Stockman, or I'm working at a moving company, I always outworked everybody else around me. And I think that comes from what I like to call the, "Hey look, dad, I hit a home run syndrome." And I think it's because I had always yearned for someone to say, "I'm proud of you," or someone to acknowledge any of my worth, because my dad wasn't around to do that.

Clinton Sparks:
I think I still have it to this day, I'm still overachiever, workaholic. I outwork everybody around me because I still have that syndrome of like, "Look dad, I hit a home run. This is why you should love me. Here's why you should come to my games. Here's why you should think that I'm awesome." And I think a lot of people suffer from that. And a lot of people in my experience suffer and are negatively impacted by that. They don't know how to take that and then use that to do better or to excel and become successful with it. I have, and I'm aware of it. You know what I mean?

Clinton Sparks:
It's not like, "I don't know, I have this psychological issue that makes me just workaholic." I get it, I'm very in tune with who I am. What makes me tick, my flaws, the things that I Excel at. And I can sit here and tell you what makes me great and somebody would say, "Wow, that guy's an asshole, he's really feeling himself." But it's not. It's not my opinion of what makes me great, I'm built by design. And I watched the world, I watched life, I watched how shitty people maneuver, I watched how great people maneuver. And I did all of that research to decide what kind of man I want to build myself into be.

Clinton Sparks:
And that was by paying attention to what works, meaning in relationships, in business, in leadership, in friendship. You know what I mean? All the answers are out there in the world, you just have to give a shit to pay attention to it. And most people don't, they're so stuck in their own world, they're not paying... How many times do you have conversations with somebody that in the middle of you talking or making an explanation, they just up in to start sharing their perspective? Which if they just shut up and let me finish, one, they probably wouldn't even have to say what they had to say.

Clinton Sparks:
And two, they would probably learn a lot more. And I have a saying in my book, one of the quotes that I have in my book, I have a lot of good quotes in here, guys, is don't get mad when people don't listen when you talk, instead, learn to talk when people are listening. And I think that most people don't do that because people have in their head their opinion, what they know, what they think that they just want to jump in and weigh in. You already know what you know, so unless you're just trying to prove that you're awesome and you're super smart, shut up, man, listen. You know what you know already.

Clinton Sparks:
So, unless you're choking in your own ego, you go, "Yeah man, like this time I did that thing." Or, "Yeah, I would've done it this way." It's like, how did that benefit at all? You just got off your chest how you would've handled it. Look, I could go on a whole psychological, rant about the ways to better maneuver to help you, help your business, help your partners, help your relationships that's totally off track of what we're here to talk about, especially the people here didn't come to get a therapy lesson or a psychological lesson on how to move forward.

Clinton Sparks:
But I will tell you the reason why I get into these things a lot is because most people, especially in music business, the reason they're not winning, the reason they're not moving forward, the reason that they're not growing the business of themselves, because trust me, you are a business, you are a brand. You're a DJ, producer, singer, a rapper, manager, A&R, videographer, choreographer, whatever you are, you're not a person just trying to fulfill a job. You are a business, you are a brand, and you must treat yourself accordingly. And to do that, you have to understand what's good and what's equally as bad with the operation of the company.

Clinton Sparks:
And if you are the company, you are the operation. And if you are operating system isn't being intended to, and it isn't being cultivated to understand what the company's doing bad, then you're always never going to succeed. So that's why I always go back to people understanding and internalizing and doing a self-assessment of who they are because it might be you are the reason why. It's not because this guy won't do this for you or this guy won't help you over here, or if only you have this money, or if only you knew this person, or make all the excuses that people make like, "There's nothing in my city that helps me. I got no money. I don't know anybody. I don't have enough following."

Clinton Sparks:
Those are all excuses that people make because they don't want to identify or admit, "Nah, I just suck a little bit." You know what I mean? So they want to blame it on something else. And when I say suck, I don't mean your music sucks, there's a lot of ways you can suck. Maybe you suck at marketing, maybe you suck at communicating, maybe you suck at social media. maybe you suck at completing the record to get it to where it needs to be. And it's okay to admit what you suck at because you're never going to get better if you don't recognize what you suck at.

Clinton Sparks:
Everybody knows what they're great at. Everybody will tell you, "Oh man, I'm dope at this." Or, "I can do this." Or, "I'm awesome." How many people have you ever heard, Michael say, "I suck at this. I work on this." It's not a lot of people, man, that do that. And you really need to sit down and like, "Okay, where am I not winning? Where am I still having problems?" And by the way, here's another thing, if you have your own brand, you're your own company, that means you're the leader. So if you are going to be a good leader, then you have to assume responsibility for everything.

Clinton Sparks:
Let's just break it down in simple terms. If you keep having the same fight with your boyfriend or your girlfriend over and over again, and you're banging your head against the wall saying, "If she would just listen. Why does she always have to respond like this? Why did you keep saying the same thing? Who even thinks like this?" You are the idiot because guess what, that person thinks like that, you know why they respond like that, you know they're going to respond like this. So why are you still saying the same things that's going to make them respond like that?

Clinton Sparks:
Why are you still conveying things? Why are you still receiving things the same way? If you're going to be a leader, then you need to pay attention and realize, "Okay, if I'm going to lead this, then I can fix it. And if I'm going to fix it, I got to start with, what am I doing to contribute to the problem." And most people don't do that. They blame somebody else, especially in a relationship. They blame the other person for not listening or for not doing what they said. It's you bro. It's not the world, it's you. If things aren't working and it's you, it's your responsibility to fix it.

Clinton Sparks:
If that things aren't helping you, it's up to you to figure out how to get around it, figure out another path. It's up to you. If you're driving down the street and you see a detour, you'll say, "Ah, I got to turn my car off and get out of the car and just sit here, I can't go anymore," you find another road to go down. If there's a speed bump, you'll say, "Ah, shit, I'm never going to get there now." It just temporarily slows you down for a second, you're going to still keep going. So all of the excuses you make, all problems that you run into, they're not there forever. And if you think they are, that's just you being unwilling to figure out how to resolve it and find another route because you are being lazy. I could keep going but go ahead.

Michael Walker:
It's so good. It's so good. And yeah man, I 100% agree. I think that there is, it's like a super power, the ability to take responsibility for everything, for your entire experience of life in the sense that if you take responsibility, it reclaims your own power. If you blame someone else, if you claim someone else has responsibility, literally what you're saying is this thing out side of me has control out of my own experience. And so I think that you're totally on point with that.

Clinton Sparks:
And if you own something breaking, then guess who gets to fix it? You, because you're the leader. Just say, "You know what, this is all my fault, let me fix it." Done. You know what I mean? There's so many ways that if you're... The best thing you can resort to whenever it gets difficult or you're button heads with somebody, assume the blame of why the communication's happening. Say, "You know what, maybe I'm not communicating this right. Let me figure out a better way because it's got to be me, I'm not saying something right." Most people will say, "You're not making sense." Or, "Yu are not listening to me." Or, "Dah, dah, dah."

Clinton Sparks:
Therefore, giving all the responsibility of getting to a better place onto the very person you are saying is the reason it's broken. If you assume responsibility for it being messed up, you have the ability and the power to fix it. I do it every single day. Michael, I can't tell you how many conversations I have with people who are ego driven, people who are greedy, people who think they might be smarter than me, people who want to own the negotiation, people who want to feel like they won. Cool. I'm going to make sure you feel that way, and then we're all going to win.

Clinton Sparks:
If I realize all you need to do is feel like you won, I already won. You just gave me the blueprint of how to win this battle.

Michael Walker:
Oh, what's up, guys? So quick intermission from the podcast so I can tell you about an awesome free gift that I have for you. I wanted to share something that's not normally available to the public, they normally reserve for our $500,000 clients that we work with personally. This is a presentation called 6 Steps to Explode Your Fanbase & Make a Profit With Your Music Online. Specifically we're going to walk through how to build a paid traffic and automated funnel that's going to allow you to grow your fan base online and the system's designed to get you to your first $5,000 a month with your music.

Michael Walker:
We've invested over $130,000 in the past year to test out different traffic sources and different offers and really see what's working best right now for musicians. And so I think it's going to be hugely valuable for you. So if that's something you're interested in, in the description, there should be a little link that you can click on to go get that. The other thing I wanted to mention is, if you want to do us a huge favor, one thing that really makes a big difference early on when you're creating a podcast is if people click Subscribe, then it basically lets the algorithm know that this is something that's new and noteworthy and that people actually want to hear. So that will help us reach a lot more people.

Michael Walker:
So if you're getting value from this and you get value from the free trainings, then if you want to do us a favor, I'd really appreciate you clicking the Subscribe button. All right. Let's get back to the podcast.

Michael Walker:
It's so good. One thing I want to dive into more that you brought up because I think it's really at the root of what you're talking about right now, is the willingness to listen, which also is way more powerful because you actually learn, when you listen, you learn, but also you surround yourself with the right people so that what you're listening to is actually aligned with what you need to do in order to achieve your goals. But one thing that you spoke to was really about self-awareness and about becoming aware of your ego and becoming aware of flaws. And that it's not those necessarily just vanish and go away, but you become more aware of them and you can actually use those as fuel.

Clinton Sparks:
Just before you ask the question, because a lot of people look at things like, "Man, if I'm going to make these changes or I'm going to heal these wounds, it's a long journey." It's not really a long journey, it's merely a decision. It's just a decision that only you can make. So if somebody is driven by their ego or somebody they're 20, they're 30, they're 40 years old and they're who they are, they've already built their operating system, you can't just delete it overnight. It has to become a full-time practice of who you now want to become.

Clinton Sparks:
It's just like working out. You can't go to the gym two times and all of a sudden you have six bars. You know what I mean? Or now you're gluteal busting through your pants. It takes consistency of doing that thing over and over again that it becomes the new you, it's just who you are now. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to stop and say, "All right, am I letting my ego get in my way?" Because I can tell you right now, that never happens to me because it doesn't exist. I never sit here and think, "All right, maybe we're butting heads because my ego's getting the best of me."

Clinton Sparks:
I don't have an ego that overrules me, I rule my emotions, I rule every decision, I do. And you can too. It doesn't matter the trauma you went through or it doesn't matter the education you even have, because you don't even have to have a high school, college education to understand how to be a human being, you're living. You understand the feelings you don't want to feel. You understand happiness, sadness, hurt, trauma, depression, vulnerability, insecurity. You're not going to go to school to learn those thing, those are natural feelings that you feel.

Clinton Sparks:
Those are all the tools you need to know how to operate because to make a good salesperson, to make a good songwriter, to make a good DJ whose job is to evoke emotion, to have any kind of job in the music business, you just got to understand people. When you understand people and what they need, that's how you win. And I'll tell you what everybody needs to feel a certain way. Every single thing in life, it's not a product, it's not a service, it's a feeling. You're selling a feeling. When somebody buys clothes, is because they want to feel fly, they want to feel fresh, they want to feel like they look good and confident.

Clinton Sparks:
When you buy food is because you want to feel full, you want to feed your depression, you want to celebrate. Everything in life, when you listen to music, it's the celebrate, it's the dance, it's the cry because you just broke up with somebody. Everything is a fucking feeling. So if you realize you're selling feelings, then all you got to do is understand what is the feeling that people want that I'm trying to sell to. And you won.

Michael Walker:
Man, I feel like there's been probably at least 10 or 11 opportunities that if I had a microphone in my hand I could drop them throughout the conversation.

Clinton Sparks:
Or just crush the building.

Michael Walker:
There we go. Nice.

Clinton Sparks:
Rampage style. I'm like the lizard that's knocked down the building climbing up the side.

Michael Walker:
I remember that game. I remember the game I think I played on the Nintendo 64. Cool man. Now, let's dive into that a little bit. Talk about really what you're selling is a feeling and really your music is about evoking an emotion, it's about transmitting an emotion. So the key to be successful in that area is really to figure out what do people want to feel and how can you effectively communicate that feeling. So what are some of those human emotions that you think people... Where is the need? Where can people really focus on in order to tap into that?

Clinton Sparks:
Well, for me, for instance as a songwriter, some people just go into the studio, they're like, "Oh, let's just make a song that fits." Or, "Let's make a song that sounds like this" And it's like whenever I approach a song, the first thing I think about is, what feeling am I trying to evoke with this record? And then I think about the majority like, what's something that a lot of people can relate to or that they feel or that they're going through?. And that's how I approach every single hit record I've ever had, that's literally how I approach it.

Clinton Sparks:
My first hit record was a song called, Sorry, Blame It On Me by Akon, and a debut number seven on billboard, multi-platinum record, it's got over 300 million streams in the video now, I'm pointing to a plaque over there. And that's a real song. That song was literally, the first verse if you ever listen to that record, Akon changed seven or eight lines in the song that made it a little bit less sentimental than it was. I have the original version here that he recorded. But the first verse was about my ex, second verse was about my mom, and the third verse was about my dad.

Clinton Sparks:
And it was speaking to, second verse saying to my mom like, "I'm sorry to single women." I'm speaking to my mom, but I know that it relates to all women that went through this, "I'm sorry that my dad was a dick and left you." You know what I mean? And then the first verse is me saying, "My girl, I'm sorry that I'm chasing my dreams so much that sometimes I neglect you, and I'm not home and I'm not around." And then the third verse was to my dad, "Nah, dude, the blame is on you, bro, you caused all these problems." So it was a really deep song. And even Lady Gaga on the Born This Way album when we were working on that, I'm thinking like, "How do I create a feeling of excitement? How do I create an anthemic song that even when she comes on stage, I'm thinking of the lighting, how do you perform? What's the video look like?"

Clinton Sparks:
So like on this record, I'm thinking when she comes on stage, they're coming out, like puppets, and then the lights goes black and then and lights. So I'm thinking all of these things, how do you evoke an emotion that you give someone goosebumps or they cry? So it's the same thing with anything you're selling. How does this feed something that's going to make them feel, something they need to feel. Even selling, let's just take like a lawnmower, you think of it as a machine, but what is it really doing?

Clinton Sparks:
It's giving somebody the pride of having an awesome lawn, "My house looks dope." How many men mow their lawn and then sit back and look at their house like, "Yeah. My house looks awesome," because they feel awesome. So when you can as a marketer or a salesperson... And then all of this comes back to music. And I'll tie it all up so you understand that if you're thinking, "Oh, this guy's teaching me. He sounds like a boss guru or starting a company, what does this have to do with me with music?" Well, if that's what you're thinking, you're already losing because what I'm teaching you right now is going to help you excel in the music business.

Clinton Sparks:
And by the way, that's the problem with a lot of people is they don't listen to things they don't think they need to listen to, but you don't know what you don't know. So if someone me that sold 75 million records made millions of dollars, work with the biggest artists in the world, build multiple multimillion dollar businesses and continue to do so, in doing what you are trying to do and then some, that's the guy you need to be listening to because he did it from a different perspective. He wasn't a one trick pony that just was one artist that made one song that was successful making music. You can take any artist that's successful and think, "Well, I want to learn from them because they're a successful artist."

Clinton Sparks:
That doesn't mean they understand business, it doesn't mean they understand marketing or communicating with people. They just know how to go to the studio and make a good melody and record. You know what I mean? That's not the person you listen to, you listen to someone that's built those brands, that's made hit records, that wrote, produced them, DJ them, manage the artist that did it, did the publicity, did the marketing behind it, built other companies, connected different industries together. And that's where you're going to get a perspective of someone that really knows how to dominate in a major way.

Clinton Sparks:
And by the way, that's why I wrote this book guys, because look, the last book that's come out in a way that really teaches you the music industry is the Donald Passman book. But that doesn't talk to you, that talks to everyone. That's just like, "Here's the legalities, here's the things you need to know." It's not like, "Here's how you do more dope shit, here's how you do less whack shit." And to understand that is to understand somebody that was homeless. I was homeless, that was in the streets, that was dealing all different types of, like I said, I listen to heavy metal, I listen to rock, I listen to country, I listen to pop. It's all in my veins, so I know how to bring it all together.

Clinton Sparks:
And I also was always the only white kid in the all black neighborhood. And then I was too white for the black kids and two black for the white kids. So I understood different cultures, different demographics. I understood different personalities, different religions. So I really studied all that stuff. And if you really want to build a big conglomerate and touch as many people as possible with your music, or your business, or your product, or whatever it is, you need to understand how other people think. Look, most people want to hang around like-minded people because they want their ideas and their thoughts endorsed.

Clinton Sparks:
Think of about you and your friends. When you tell a story, halfway through the story, you can say, "You know what I mean?" They're like, "Yeah dude, totally." Because they know how to think like you because you hang out with like-minded people. I want people that when I'm talking, they're like, "No, I don't understand." Because that's a different person. I already know how to sell to me, I know how to sell to my friends because they're just like me. I need to know how to sell and relate to people that don't think like me. And in order to do that, I have to care enough to pay attention and shut up and listen to other people's perspectives.

Clinton Sparks:
Because that's the only way you're going to write a great movie, write a great song, or you just going to keep making the same thing. And even in music, you'll see different types of music where people are like, "Ah, that music sucks," because it's not their taste, because they're not a fan of that band, or that singer, or that rapper, or whatever it is. It doesn't suck, it's just not for you. And that's one thing that really bothers me when somebody, especially publicly or so social media, they shit on somebody's hard work without knowing anything about this person's life.

Clinton Sparks:
You don't know if this guy just worked two years to save up for his first and only studio session to make his first record, and his mother's dream is for him to be a rapper and then she died, and he made this record and he put this first record out to try to get some people to... and you're shitting on it. Why would you do that? It's such a dick move. I wish if there was one that I could change about the internet is that everybody that has something negative to say, just don't say it, just keep it to yourself. What gratification or excitement do you get out of crushing somebody else's dreams.

Clinton Sparks:
Imagine if you had a kid or when you have a kid and when your 15-year-old kid is working really hard to do something and he's really excited, you're proud of him, and then somebody comes over, maybe he's built, I don't know, the world's greatest Lego house that he spent the year building, and someone comes over and says, "That shit sucks," and kicks it over. Wouldn't you want to knock the shit out of that person? You would. And it's the same thing when you dis somebody online. It's like kicking over their whole Lego thing that they worked the whole year on, why would you do that? You're a dick, don't do that.

Clinton Sparks:
Sorry. I know I went to the left on that, but I get really upset when I see people get dissed online. Even me for instance, my ads, most people will do research and all of the remarks that I get are pretty much all positive. Because you can tell when someone's a real person that's trying to help you over when someone's a scammer, especially, let's just say you at me and somebody else, just look us up, Google our names. Who is that guy? What do they do? What are their receipts? What's their credibility? What's success have they had? Who are they connected to?

Clinton Sparks:
"Oh, no one. All right, cool. I probably shouldn't buy his thing." "Who's this guy? Oh, he's did that, he does this, he's still doing active right now. He's not a husband who's just trying to make a living now because he's not cracking anymore." Dah, dah, dah. Cool. Christmas, don't do that. I should follow him. And obviously, I'm saying that because it's me, but even these other great people out there, whether it's me or anybody, always do your research, always do your due diligence. because like any company, which you are a business, nobody spends their money, nobody makes strong sound decisions moving their company forward without doing proper research or due diligence. That's your job.

Clinton Sparks:
So when somebody writes under my ad, scammer, it's like, I'm probably the most not scammer dude you'll ever meet in your entire life. I will literally lose money before I would damage my reputation. I don't care, I'm already good with money, I don't need your $7 for my book, bro. You think I'm scamming you to get $7 to give you 25 years of game and knowledge you couldn't find anywhere else? If you think my $7 fee for a book is a scam, you should quit because that means you don't know shit about shit. And you definitely don't know how to run a business.

Clinton Sparks:
Because the first thing you shouldn't do is call somebody that could help you a scammer. You already just did something whack right there. And then for all the people that know this guy's not a scammer, you look a donkey. And then second of all, the fact that you did no research before you made a comment like that shows you suck at business. So right there, you making a response like that, you're losing multiple ways. And by the way, I understand when somebody's knee jerk reaction, when they see somebody online, especially when they start off like, "What's up guys?" It's usually like, "Here we go. Somebody else's trying fucking to show me how to do social media growth, or how to buy real estate, or get my course and dah, dah, dah."

Clinton Sparks:
Michael, you and I both know there's a million people out here that are frauds. It's very rare that people can really add value and people really care. And you do, which is why I'm here. I see what you guys do on Modern Music. If I thought you guys were clowns, I don't care if you were scamming 10,000 people to believe you were real, I wouldn't want me to be introduced to them through you because now I look like a clown. Do you know what I'm saying? When they do get to know me? So my circle's small, I don't associate with a lot. If you don't believe in me, it's your job to go do some research. And by the way, it'll take you five seconds to say, "Okay, this dude's legit."

Clinton Sparks:
But man, I guess I went off on a tangent about people just being dicks and not doing good enough research for their own business, but I guess I'll wrap this part by saying, remember you're a brand, remember you're a business, remember if you want to be successful and build a sustainable or scalable business in the music industry, you must operate like you're a legitimate business, not one person that's just looking for a fake million streams or fake comments, or fake followers. You think Coca-Cola would be selling real Coke if they just pretended they had 100 million followers but they weren't selling any Coke?

Clinton Sparks:
What would they care? They wouldn't care. They would say, "Delete all our followers. I'd rather sell a million Cokes than have a million followers and no sales." So when you go backwards and you think that you're faking it till you make it by having fake followers, one, the algorithms are getting smarter and smarter. The platforms all know what's fake and what's real. So you're going to end up hurting yourself in the long run. And if you're going to subscribe to the fake it until you make it, well, why don't we start something new for 2022 and start making it?

Clinton Sparks:
Let's focus on the making it part instead of the faking it till you make it, because you don't need to fake it. And fake people are being found more and more every day. And if you get the fake Stripe on you, people like me, aren't going to look at you and have respect for you. I'm not going to want to do stuff with you and I'm not going to want to give you information because I know that you're trying to cheat. And if you're trying to cheat, that means you don't take your career serious so I don't take you serious, not should anybody else.

Michael Walker:
That's so I point. And one thing that comes up as you share that, and I think that you're a great example of, this is the Emerson quote, "Who you are speaks so loudly that I can't hear what you say." I think that's a good principle to look at, especially when you're looking for mentorship or guidance, don't just listen to what someone's saying, but actually do your research and see who are they. And I think that that's definitely a superpower being able to do that. And you're a great example of who you are is proof enough.

Clinton Sparks:
I would say pay attention to the messenger not the message because anybody can feed you BS. Anybody can go read a book and then act like they know everything. Look, there's no secrets anymore. You can do research and find this stuff out and then say, "Oh man, I just read this article today and the stats say that more people are streaming now more than before and blah, blah, blah. I'm just going to retype this and then post it out and show people, 'Look how smart I am, you should follow me now and buy my course because I just regurgitated some information I got from this other newsletter,'" or something that you just simply didn't take the time to do.

Clinton Sparks:
Now, is there value and merit to somebody that is an aggregator, gets all the information for you so you can go to one trusted source this person to get it? Absolutely. So I'm not disrespecting somebody that gives you all the information, however, be mindful because I know there's a bunch of people out there that are awesome at getting information, being a source for getting the knowledge that you need, but they're good for certain things and not for other things. And that's where you as a business need to realize, "Okay, great. Let me filter this and get this information from him. This guy has more practical things that can teach me how to do things. This guy has more of a mentality way of me to operate better in the business."

Clinton Sparks:
And there's room for a bunch of different people. And by the way, when you go to school, you don't learn from one professor. So you go into different teachers to get different information so that you can graduate and have all of the knowledge that they gave you and then go on and win.

Michael Walker:
Absolutely. That's a really good point. I think that if you're looking to master a skill, you don't just buy one book. You're like, "All right, I know everything there's to know." You look and you see what are different perspectives that people different have. And also like you're saying, you look at specifically what are the areas of expertise that this person can bring and you aggregate that and you create a more whole holistic approach. I think there's one thing that you've spoken to a few times, I love conversations like this because I feel like really this is going to the roots of what do you need to be successful.

Michael Walker:
And there's always going to be things that are , you can blah, blah, but those things are very temporary, they pass really quickly. The things that you're speaking to right now are really roots, they're foundational things that don't change, they are the source.

Clinton Sparks:
Well, I've been around long enough to watch rappers, actors, influencers, Viners, YouTubers, come and go. And it's because of the fundamental principles and values of who you are. Look, the nucleus of my success isn't a record I produced, it isn't a party that I smashed, it isn't a business that I built. It's me. So half the people that do business with me or invest in businesses I'm a part of, even if they're like, "I'm not sure if this business model is the greatest, but I fuck with you and I believe in you. And I think that you'll make it work. And I trust you with my money that you're going to do any and everything to make sure that this was a sound investment."

Clinton Sparks:
So when you can get people to buy into you with authenticity, not by scamming them, because there's a difference. And one of the things I say in my book is if you feel triumphant or you feel like a winner because you were able to sell somebody or convince somebody to invest in something that doesn't have maximum impact or extreme value to them, that doesn't make you an awesome salesperson, it makes you a conman. And I don't know why you'd be proud to con people out of money. That's some sucker shit. So if you really care about people and you care about yourself, then you're going to do the right thing even if that means sometimes you're not going to get the money that you want.

Clinton Sparks:
You're not going to get that opportunity because every opportunity is not a great opportunity, guys. So you also have to be mindful of like, does this make sense to me? Does it make sense for my brand? Does it make sense for what I'm talking about or who I am? Is this association a smart association for me? Is this money good money for me to take? You know what I mean? So you can't sit there desperate, like, "But I need it so I don't care where it's from, I'll take it." That speaks to who you are. And in the long run, if you're really trying to build a brand around integrity and greatness, which is what you can be, then got to be mindful of all those things.

Clinton Sparks:
And by the way, a lot of people think that being great is just like making themselves great, talking about how great they are, doing great things and bragging about their greatness, but helping other people be great is also being great. So there's a lot when it comes to being great, it's how you conduct yourself, how you communicate, how you follow up, how you talk to people, how you treat people. That means fans, that means if you have 5,000 people on social media and you're ignoring them, you're a dick. If they're engaging with you, they're DMing you and you're too busy because you're out here trying to get it going or you're a hustling or you're making music, you're in the studio, yo, why should these people support you or commit to being a fan or engaging if you are not going to give the same commitment back?

Clinton Sparks:
Now, you might think, "Well, I am giving the commitment back, I'm making the hot music that they want to hear." That's just part of your job, man. And that's another problem that a lot of people don't understand is that the job comes with many different titles. It's not just guy in the studio making the record. You got to be a good person, man. You got to understand business, you got to understand people and you got to treat people right.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. And one thing that I feel it's like a through line to what you're talking about is this idea of focusing on providing value for other people as opposed to feeding in to the ego, like me, me, me, how great I am. For anyone who is, I don't know, listening or watching this right now, who maybe they want to make a bigger impact, honestly, maybe they're at the point right now where they haven't had that shift yet and they haven't really realized the importance of focusing on other people instead of themselves. And right now they're in that mindset where it's just like, "Me, me, me, how can I do this for me?"

Michael Walker:
Or they feel like they're in a spot where really they need to focus on themselves, they feel like there's not enough to give to other people. What would your advice be for them to be able to really make that shift, and why should they make a shift like that as opposed to focusing on themselves?

Clinton Sparks:
The more you give, the more you get. And what I mean by that is just think about, I built a career off of paying things forward. I would never be able to even count how many favors I've done for people, how many people I've connected together, how many people I've helped build their whole business and didn't ask for anything in return. I didn't ask to get paid. I just did it for the good of the culture or because I like to help people. But also I'm smart enough to know, the more good I put out there, the more great I do for other people, the more my reputation will spread of being a good dude.

Clinton Sparks:
My name gets brought up in circles or in meetings that I'm not even a part of, people will be like, "Oh yeah, I love that guy, Clinton, man. He's a good dude. Yo, you know what he did for my friend?" Blah, blah, blah. That word spreads. By the way, it doesn't happen overnight either. So you can't expect to be, everyone think you're the greatest thing in a month or a year. This is like over years of putting in the work and being conscious and caring enough to put that much greatness and to help other people. And there might be people here that are thinking, "I don't have much to offer, I don't have money, I don't have connections, I don't have that." And that's another excuse you're making. Everybody has something to offer.

Clinton Sparks:
One of the chapters of my book is called Mastering ART. It stands for Automatic Resourceful Thinking. The second there's a problem with any problem I have, I don't divert to, "Oh, shit, everything got ruined." Or, "Damn, this isn't going to work now." Or, "This guy's causing me a problem," the second somebody happens. And this is training myself. I immediately think, "Here's the problem, how do I fix it?" And the second I think, how do I fix it, I'm immediately activating mastering ART, automatic resourceful thinking. Who can help me? What can I do? Who do I know? Where can I go? That's exactly what I'm thinking.

Clinton Sparks:
And now you, for instance, let me give you an example of something you may not have thought of. You may think, "Oh, I want to talk to this record executive, or this club promoter, or this popular manager, or this DJ in my city that could play my record." All these things you're thinking like, "What do I have to offer them. I need them, they don't need me." That's not true. Everybody needs something. Maybe they need a graphic designer, maybe they need someone to promote their party that's coming up. Maybe they need an assistant, maybe they need tickets to a show that's coming up. Maybe they're a big sneaker fan and they can't get their hands on some sneakers and you have a friend that owns a sneaker shop.

Clinton Sparks:
You have to think of all the resources that you have, and in order to think that, it goes back to what I was saying earlier, you got to give a shit about other people. So if you know what they care about or what they need, maybe someone's got a kid and they're having a school raffle, you know what I mean? So you hit them up like, "Hey man, I want to donate $50 to your daughter's dah, dah, dah." You know how many parents are going to be like, "I'm going to do whatever you want me to do now because you just looked out for my kid like that."

Clinton Sparks:
There's just so many different ways that you can be resourceful to somebody you're not thinking because you think that you're at a lower level than them, and that's one of the roadblocks that people create for themselves, especially reaching out to people they deem to be very successful or a celebrity, like, "Why would they ever respond to me? Why would they do that for me?" The second you say, why would they do this, you're already in your own way. The real reason should be why wouldn't they when I can do this for them in return? But the only way you'll know what you can do in return is if you care enough to do some research on them.

Clinton Sparks:
Look at their social media pages, look at what they're working on, look what they care about. Look at what something they just accomplished that they're proud about, that they would love to hear you say. Maybe your dad is friends with the CEO of a new balance or Puma, and you know this guy, he's just talked about this rapper, this local rapper you're trying to connect, he was like, "Man, I'm trying to get some clothes on my video shoot." Have your dad reach out to him, get those clothes, and now you just provided him outfits. It cost you nothing except caring about what somebody else needs instead of just thinking about what you need.

Clinton Sparks:
That's the problem being like, "I need this, I got to get this, I got to connect with this guy." I, I, I, the world revolves around I. And it's like, you will get so much further when you think about you, we, us, they. And when you can provide service and value to other people, it instantly builds your network, gets you relationships, opens up doors, and now it helps you accomplish what you are trying to get accomplished. So stop thinking about what you need, what you want, what you need to get, who you need to talk to, without thinking about what can I provide to them?

Clinton Sparks:
In my entire life, never did I ever approach anybody and asked them to do something for me or with me unless I knew I had something that could provide equal or greater value to them than what I was asking of them, ever. When I was at the top of my game as a mixtape DJ, and everybody around be like, "Oh, why don't you reach out to Whoo Kid? Why don't you reach out to Drama? Why don't you reach out to Khaled and ask him to do a collab, blah, blah, blah?" I was like, "No, I'm going to get myself to a point that they want to do a collab with me." Because at that point, they were bigger than me. So, where's the win for them? Do you know what I'm saying?

Clinton Sparks:
So how I ended up winning is I would produce stuff for them on the low. You know what I mean? Not them in particular, but people I needed something from, like the local radio DJ. I would produce his intros to his mix show. And then when artists would come to town, I would go to them and I would get a drop for that DJ. You know what I mean? And I'd be like, "I got a drop from this artist and this artist for you that you can play in your radio show." I just made him look like a superstar having all this shit, he didn't have to do nothing. Now guess what? When I produce a remix to a song and I'm like, "Hey, would you mind spinning this to your mix show?" "Of course, dude. Bro, whatever you need."

Clinton Sparks:
Because I went and did shit for him without expectations. I just did it for a year and then finally I was like, "Hey man, I produced a bunch of remixes, check them out," And I didn't even ask him to do anything. He was like, "Oh, shit, these are dope, do you mind if I play this on my show?" And I'm like, "No, that'd be awesome. In fact, it would be cool for you because now you have an exclusive version nobody else has." Further endorsing how it makes him look awesome. Do you know what I'm saying? When you care about other people as much as yourself or more, you're going to get so much more value than when you just sit there talking about how awesome you are or what you need.

Michael Walker:
I love it. Awesome. So speaking of super valuable things and providing value for other people, one thing that I personally know is from the first third of the book that I've started reading, it's been sorely like drinking from a firehose, kind of similar way that this conversation has been in the best way. Your book that really you just released recently, it was within the last year.

Clinton Sparks:
By the way, sold over 30,000 copies so far. Those are best seller numbers than I'm just doing it independently.

Michael Walker:
It speaks for itself. I think that the reason that happens is the reason that you've achieved the success that you have in general. It's like you said, it's who you are, and it's the focus on providing value for other people. And I know that you really took everything that you possibly could from what you've experienced really from the transformation that you've had from starting out to accomplishing what you did and you've put it into the book. And so, first of all, I guess we're getting ready to wrap up here. So, first of all, just thank you for being here and for sharing some of the lessons that you've learned throughout your journey.

Clinton Sparks:
Of course. Thanks for having me.

Michael Walker:
And for anyone who's listening this right now or watching this and wants to learn more, connect more with you, also check out the book, where can they go to check it out?

Clinton Sparks:
All socials are @clintonsparks. Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, it's all Clinton Sparks. You can check me out more, if you want to do more research on me, clintonsparks.com. Also, will you have a link to my book in this?

Michael Walker:
Yeah. Definitely. To make it as easy as possible, we'll throw it in the show notes.

Clinton Sparks:
A couple of things, you can get the physical book at winbiginmusic.com. I also have links in all my socials to get the audio book bundle, which comes with a bunch of free products as well. It comes with the audio book and the ebook. By the way, it's only seven bucks guys to get all these things. And then I have a full course with over 60 videos with some of the biggest experts in the music business. If you want to learn how to do engineering, I got Fabian, three time Grammy winning engineer, a mixing engineer.

Clinton Sparks:
If you want to learn about more about production, I have Academy Award winning multi-platinum Grammy dominated, DJ Paul from Three 6 Mafia telling you the best ways to do production, how to work with an artist, how to shop your beats, how to place beats, how to do your splits and your publishing and all that stuff. You want to learn how to make great video content, I have Rug who has over 16 million subs on YouTube, who teaches you how to make effective video content, how to release it, how to monetize your videos. Everything you need to know about how to build the business in the music business is in this course.

Clinton Sparks:
And by the way, the course is probably 1100th what it would cost you to go to school, and you'll learn way more in this 60-course video than you'd ever learn going to a major university to learn anything about the music business. So I have that. And then I also have my Winning Circle, which is my private support mentorship group. And also I have a Social Media Growth Pod as well. And it all comes, you get the course, you get all that stuff with it. So winbiginmusic.com if you just want to get the physical copy of the book.

Clinton Sparks:
By the way, let me thank you guys for caring enough to help the many people that listen and follow you guys to get tips and tricks and strategies to understand how to navigate through the music industry and business. And I know you guys have all the great intentions of helping others and are doing so, and I respect and appreciate what you guys are doing too. By the way, guys, this just so you know, this is not a book like most books of like, "Here's everything you're doing wrong. Now, go by my course so I can teach you how to do it right.

Clinton Sparks:
This is not that. This is, "Here's the book that's going to show you the proven winning formula that Drake, that Khaled, that Snake, that me, that everybody uses." And look how small it is, it's a two-hour read. I don't know why Michael's taking so long to read a two-hour book, but anyways, it's a quick two-hour read. Look, and I wrote the book for those people who are just like, "How do I go viral? How do I make money? How do I get a deal?" I know that's what all you guys want to understand. I know you don't want to know all the other bullshit, most people don't. They just want to know those things. They just want to hurry up and get there and win.

Clinton Sparks:
I teach you all those things, but I also give you all of the other principles and values that when you get there, you're going to know the right things to do so you don't fall off there like the many people I'd see happen all the time. So realistically, it's a no-brainer book, this book will change your life, $7 going to change your life guys. Michael, thank you so much for being on here. For everybody that's stuck here the whole time and listened to what we talked about, I thank you. And I have respect and value you because only real winners are going to sit and listen to a whole podcast like this, getting all of this information on how to win. So salute you guys.

Michael Walker:
So good. And super appreciate the kind words, man. When we first met, I mentioned when you were talking about what you've built, that I personally... This is rare for me to want to jump in the deep end like this, but I'm like, "Dude, I'm sold. I want to be a part of this community. I'm going to personally join the course." Because I think what's so exciting about the state of the world right now with the internet and with education, the way that it is, is like you're just saying, what used to be you go to college and you learn from essentially the same like it was built by Henry Ford, and it was really based on these factories. And it doesn't take advantage of the current state of the world.

Michael Walker:
The fact that you can directly connect with people like you and the group that you've brought together to teach these topics, I think it's a huge opportunity. So I personally I'm really excited to connect more and be a part of that and learn from your experience. And for anyone that's listening or watching this right now, again, I think that mentorship in any way, if anyone's ahead of where you are, then you have something to learn from them. So open up your ears and listen. Even if someone hasn't achieved the levels of success that you have, if they know more than you know, then listen and hear what they have to say.

Michael Walker:
But when there is someone who's achieved the level of success that you have, then you really got to open up your ears and listen and do what you can to surround yourself with people like that, they're just going to pull you ahead.

Clinton Sparks:
First of all, thank you for those kind words. I'm excited that you're going to be part of the Winner Circle, I'll see you more often in there. But on top of that, look, this is going to sound a little pompous, but it's the difference me. Comparing me to mostly other people out here that are trying to give you game in the music business is like comparing Michael Jordan to somebody who they burnt out at high school playing basketball. You know what I'm saying? "Yeah. I played high school and I was pretty good in high school." That's as far as I went. You know what I'm saying? I didn't go on to the NBA and win championships and then be coach to another team and teach them how to win championships, and then buy my own team, and then franchise.

Clinton Sparks:
It's a huge difference from someone that's accomplished all that I've accomplished and somebody that just gets streaming, or somebody that was just a manager, or somebody that was just a successful DJ, huge difference. And again, not saying to discount them because they may have tremendous value in that particular lane. Like I said, it takes more than one professor to teach someone going through college. So I'm not saying I'm the end-all-be-all and all you need is me, because it's great to get different perspectives, especially from credible people. But I'm saying, again, back to, pay attention to the messenger, not the message.

Michael Walker:
Beautiful, cool man. Well, for anyone who's listening to this right now, you can check out the book in the show notes and check out the course. Man, appreciate you taking the time to be here.

Clinton Sparks:
Thanks for having me here. Here's the horns. You know what those horns mean? Go get the book, go get the book. Change your life now, it's time to win big, baby. Let's go. Wait, wait, we're going to go now, but there's absolutely no way we're going to end this without you serenating us. You got a piano in front of you, you probably got an angelic sounding voice. Let us hear something from you, Michael.

Michael Walker:
Well, it's perfect timing. Actually, I've been working on this song for the last, I don't know, like year or so.

Clinton Sparks:
Let's go.

Michael Walker:
(singing).

Clinton Sparks:
I love it already.

Michael Walker:
(singing).

Clinton Sparks:
And thank you. I love it. You got a great voice though. You got a great voice.

Michael Walker:
Oh, thanks man. I was thinking like, "Yeah, that probably has some serious potential to go multi-platinum."

Clinton Sparks:
Whatever you just played, was that a freestyle on the piano?

Michael Walker:
Yeah, it was a freestyle. I had

Clinton Sparks:
We might have to work together because the best way that I write my biggest songs is somebody that just sit riffs and plays on the piano and I'm just like, "Oh that chord right there. Do that again." Again, because it's the feeling. The feeling got me and that one chord made me think about this guy that's going through this problem and he needs this in his life and dah, dah, dah, and I'll write the whole song right then. Man, sure, we should come together, you're a great pianist. But anyways, thank you for having me on here.

Clinton Sparks:
Thank you to all you guys that listened and hopefully you get the book. And hit me on Instagram or Twitter @clintonsparks, and I'm super engaging. So if you got a question, hit me up there. And I'll see you guys at the top. Michael, I'll see you in the studio.

Michael Walker:
Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast, then there's a few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit Subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends or on your social media, tag us. That really helps us out. Third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you, who want to take their music career to the next level. The time to be a modern musician is now, and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.