Wendy Parr: That's life, we're not going to be happy all the time. We're not supposed to be. To embrace my sadness and embrace the experience. Be like, oh okay, so what am I getting out of this? What am I learning from this? I'm grateful I can just feel this feeling. It's a beautiful feeling to feel this way. But then again, the tools to not stay on that train for too long.

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high quality music but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker: All right, so I'm super excited to be here today with Wendy Parr who is a holistic artists coach. Really she focuses in one, artists branding and also vocal coaching. She's an award winning songwriter, collaborated with Grammy and Academy Award winning artists. You've probably heard maybe a few of these, Sarah Brollies, Regina Spektor, a great big world for when they... Took them from pre Grammy to Grammy. She herself is an artist. She herself is an artists. She has a song that's featured on the Grammy winning soundtrack for sunblock millionaire and just an overall badass of a human being.

Michael Walker: Even before we started this conversation, literally we started this conversation before we clicked record on the interview and we just had a really great conversation leading into this. So one of the things that she really focuses on, she has something called artists circle, which is an interactive events where different types of creators come together to connect and network and collaborate with each other. It sounds like there's a lot of really amazing exercises that you do with playful motivating conversations, meditations that allow you to cut deeper than the surface level that a lot of us communicate on.

Michael Walker: Today specifically I thought that it would be really valuable to focus on her expertise, which is really around the mindset of being an artist and expressing yourself and your brand and your values. So Wendy, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today and to share some of what you've learned.

Wendy Parr: I'm so glad to. Thank you so much. Yeah, I am very grateful, I get to work with really special people and we find each other, they find me and certainly I think that because of the kind of person I am, if I'm the fit for you, that's what we're vibing in that authentic space. When I work, for example, with Sarah Brollies, the first session I have with everyone is called Foundation. It now has a name because I lead it as a group workshop as well. A course, and it's really that root of my philosophy of authenticity being the core of creativity and that I want to help artists live in their joy. Stay in that... Reason why you picked up a hairbrush and sang into the mirror or that first time you picked up a guitar like, "Oh, I love this. This makes me feel good."

Wendy Parr: When you become a professional and when it becomes a career, it's very easy actually to lose that feel good feeling because we get overcome with the business side of things or the selling of things. I'm not talking about selling out, I'm just talking about our focus can really shift and we lose the joy because we've lost the focus of why we make music. In that first session and foundation, I have a conversation with the artists before we really start singing.

Wendy Parr: We're going to sing a little. I'm going to let the artists I work with when we meet, I'm going to show you how I'm going to help you vocally without a doubt. Let me give you a taste of that so you know where we're going. But I'm also going to have that conversation so that I really get to know who you are and what matters to you and you get to know how we're going to work together in a very holistic way. Because it is. It's not "in your head." It's not like, "Oh, it's all in your head. You're making a mess for yourself."

Wendy Parr: It's not a blame game like that but it is our focus. What we focus on is what we grow. So for focusing the joy and the gratitude and the passion and the pleasure of what we do, we're going to build our business around that energy and around keeping that focus. It gets more specific than that. I really help break down what's getting in your way. Why you're in your head and we're going to eliminate that. Because again, as the pressure to do well and succeed gets greater and greater, if we focus on doing well and succeeding, we really eliminate that joy.

Wendy Parr: I say thank you to Sarah because when we worked together it was on her Brave, right before she toured solo with her single, Brave. I was having this conversation with her and at the time I said to her, there's a piece of my philosophy here that I haven't found yet. I know that it's incomplete, but I haven't found it yet. She actually gave me a piece of it. And I asked her, "How do you connect with the audience? How do you take us on the emotional ride with you?" And she said, "Well, I invite them in." I was like that's it. That's the language I was missing. Thank you. So it's like Sarah helped me get a completion on my own philosophy which is really beautiful. Great co creation right there.

Michael Walker: That's super cool.

Wendy Parr: Yeah, she's wonderful. And as you mentioned, a great big world. We went from Ian's first voice lesson to a Grammy. I actually scholar shipped them for many years. I really believed in them as artists. That's part of life as well. Giving back and I'm still looking at... For all my events that I do, we give a percentage to charity and that can be LGBTQ groups, its musicians and artists groups. It's women of color. So I rotate different charities that I really appreciate and I want to support. But similarly, in my own life, I've given scholarships to artists, been supportive. But again I know the next key thing for me is where's the bigger give back?

Wendy Parr: As I grow my communities, as I bring people together, how can we... I'm not sure yet. I don't know what it looks like yet but how can I bring people to action and really give back in a big way? So that's my next curiosity and endeavors. Discovering that.

Michael Walker: Beautiful thing to be curious about too. I feel like every single person that I've talked to that has achieved a level of success like you have always has this level of focus that's about, how can I serve in the biggest possible way? That's the big question that they're curious about. That they're asking. And so I think it's not a coincidence that you've been able to accomplish what you have and that's the main focal point that you're trying to figure out. Is how can I serve in the biggest way?

Wendy Parr: Absolutely. That's really interesting you say that. I listen to a podcast, How I Built This, which I really enjoy and it's about entrepreneurs who have massive companies. Massive, financially, successful, companies. Now I'm sure they curate who they're speaking to but that was a common thread I found as well that people were trying to... They weren't setting out to make money, they were setting out to serve... There was a need. That there's something they were passionate about.

Wendy Parr: One guy, his best friend he thought just makes the best yogurt and everyone should have this yogurt. He went to the ends of the earth, he was standing in a warehouse of water. But he was like, "We're going to fix this because everyone's got to taste your yogurt." Anyway, again, I really appreciate. That was very inspiring listening to people going through the ups and downs of entrepreneurialship. [inaudible 00:07:18]. I think that serving is important.

Wendy Parr: When I work with artists and in my course, The Ride, which is very deep dive for advanced artists that they know who they are. Now, how do I want to bring this out in the world? How does this translate into my look and my branding and my persona on stage? This is, again, we talked about that first lesson to a Grammy, it's something that takes seven to 10 years to really discover who am I and how does that play out on stage? How does that play out in my logo? How does that play out in my look?

Wendy Parr: Some stuff happens internally and then some stuff has to be discovered in public. You don't know until you're serving it up. I created the ride to hopefully distill that seven to 10 years. Let's shrink that a little bit. Because if we can get clear about who we are, what our passions are, and the bigger one is what our purpose is. If you're just in it for yourself, you're not going to be inspired every day to just serve yourself. That selfishness won't get you there.

Wendy Parr: A career in music, career in anything is such a challenge. You want to be a brain surgeon, that's a tough road. You want to be a musician, that can be a tough road. It's all... Nothing's going to be handed to you. So you better love what you're doing and be super motivated. I think that serving a greater purpose is 100% going to be more motivating than serving your ego. You may or may not be aware of it when you start that you're motivated by something greater but there's something you want to say to people. There's a way you want to touch people. There's a message that you want to give that maybe you weren't given.

Wendy Parr: My philosophy of helping artists be fulfilled comes from the pain I experienced as an artist of losing it. Where I had mentors that just... My heart was locked up and my voice was out here singing really "good" but my heart was so far away and disconnected from what I was singing. So the pain of that led me to be the coach that I am. So 100%, I don't want other people to go through what I went through. I don't want people to be marred by perfectionism. I also found in coaching, that when I started coaching, how much I loved it because I was more interested in working with people than putting myself out on tour.

Wendy Parr: My energy was going here. I'm like, you love this. This is really fulfilling to you. You feel really good helping other people. Soar more, get their goals as a vocalist. You dig this because you're not putting the energy into that anymore. So recognizing that it's really important. So recognizing for the artists, what really lights my fire? What do I want to say? And then what's my unique way of saying it. There's 700 billion love songs and there's still room for more.

Wendy Parr: What does love mean to you and how do you want to talk about it? Because we need your voice. Each person's voice is really unique but we have to find the way to engage that and let go of trying to be like somebody else. Trying to be "cool." That's how we end up with a lot of singers like Regina. She came out and she is very unique. Then you get a bunch of singers that sound a lot her following her for the next couple years because oh my god, first we emulate what we admire. That's not bad. Every singer learns that way. But then we have to learn how to let go of the imitation and emulation to bring our own voice out.

Wendy Parr: I think a lot of people feel, oh I'm not interesting enough or that won't interest people. I'm afraid I'm going to bore people. But no, your uniqueness is actually what's special. You hiding yourself or trying to be someone else is not. That's the disconnect. So the more we can get into who you really are and sharing that, the better.

Michael Walker: So good. I got goosebumps as you're talking. It reminds me of a conversation I just had with my mom last night. We started doing these on Monday nights. We have mom Mondays and we go for a walk and talk together.

Wendy Parr: I love that.

Michael Walker: One thing that we were talking about last night was she was telling me about a quote from Mark Twain that was really related to what you just said. Something... I forget the exact words or the phrases that he used but he said... The message was that there's nothing truly unique exactly. Everything is repurposed energy, there's nothing new. It's just it's all repurposed patterns. It's taking something that's already there and then reworking it. Being okay with having influences and realizing that that part of who you are is both a unique expression of it but it was also... It came from something else as well. We are all influenced by something.

Wendy Parr: 100%. We're also all made of the same stardust. We are all made of the same thing. So when someone's like, "Oh you remind me of so and so." There's a shimmer of something in you that they have as well. That's a beautiful thing. But it's also a combination. Speaking of music, we're all using the same notes. We're all using... We all have access to pretty much the same instruments. If you expose yourself to India, for example, I love the music of India. I had sitar in some of my songs. I made a record that hasn't made its way in the world yet. Again, I stopped being an artist pursuing putting myself out as an artist.

Wendy Parr: But I made this beautiful record that was a pop record, a Western record with Indian influences in sound. I'm a huge fan of Indian music. So if I bring the sitar into my music, I have now created a recipe that's unique, right? It's not going to be Indian because I'm not and that's not my lifelong influence of music. But how does that play instead of a guitar in my music? So we all have the same melodies, notes we're picking from and create different melodies. Same chords, how do you put them together?

Wendy Parr: All the instruments, which ones are you picking to put in where? I think of it like cooking. A pancake is a crepe, is a tortilla, is a [non 00:13:00], is teff. If we go around the world, you'll find a version of that everywhere but based on the culture, the spices, the available ingredients, it varies. But it's essentially all the same thing. Then how do you do it? And then you go to a restaurant that you love because oh my gosh, it's Korean and French fusion. I love the way this person's mixed this together. That's music. That's art. We're using everything that's out there plus your personal flavor, taste, joy, creativity, vision. That's what's remarkable about it.

Michael Walker: I love that. Yeah, it's kind of like how really all of us have come from two different parents who come together and they give birth to a new being that is both its own individual expression but also has genetics from each each parents. I suppose it's something that comes from something else but also it's new.

Wendy Parr: So true. You walk like one of your parents probably. You watch them walk and then you learn to walk. I remember watching my cousin walk in front of my big cousin. She was three and they had the same exact body movement in the walk. Like oh wow.

Michael Walker: It's like... I forget what company it is but they have a commercial where it's like, "What we can't prevent is you becoming your parents." It shows a bunch of examples where it's like [inaudible 00:14:23].

Wendy Parr: It's the truth.

Michael Walker: It is. I know... Gosh, I know that you have a ton of experience. Whenever I'm having conversation with someone like you, it's so easy to just peel back the onion because it's just so much mastery that literally you can't help but just exude wisdom, which is awesome. So granted that that's where you're coming from. I'm sure that you've noticed that there's probably very similar patterns from the artists who first come to you when you first start working with them.

Michael Walker: A lot of them probably are struggling with similar types of issues that manifest in different ways. What are some of the biggest challenges or patterns that you see music artists struggling with when they first come to you?

Wendy Parr: That's a great question. Yes. So back to foundation, the conversation I have is asking what people really love about what they do. And then what they don't love, what gets in the way? Where their head goes, what stresses them out? The answers are 100% the same from everybody all around the world. I think it goes to the similarities humans have. And then you distill that to creatives. We get more similarities. Then you distill that to singers you get more similarities. As humans, I think that we are more similar than we are dissimilar or more than different.

Wendy Parr: But the differences also work beautiful. Similarities really connect us and the differences make those special qualities and differences. So yes, so similar. Similar on the creative side and then similar on the business side. How do I put a team together? How do I build my fan base? How do I... What content do I create? That's a lot of the business side of things. How do I do this all myself? Because you're going to do it yourself for a long time. You're going to do it yourself until what you're doing resonates so much with people that business people say, ooh, you're really... You got a community. You have a fan base because what you're doing is authentic. What you're doing resonates. It's reaching people.

Wendy Parr: But as an artist, you're a small business. So when your small business is attractive to a bigger business, that's when they'll come a manager or label. That's when they'll be knocking on your door. But you really... It's so strange. I mean, you really do need to do everything yourself right now. Artists are not marketing people. However, very successful artists have often been great marketing people, not great artists necessarily. You don't have to have the biggest amount of talent but you can market yourself well. But again, it also doesn't matter how much talent you have, what matters is how you communicate to people.

Wendy Parr: If you have a huge range but you're boring, it's irrelevant. If you've got raspiness to your name and you're making me cry, you're going to have an audience. So put them together. Have a great range with a cool vocabulary that you can play with and you move me. Oh, now you're really rock and roll. Skills are important but they're only important to serve the expression, to serve the artist communicating and having an effect on the audience.

Wendy Parr: So yeah, the similarities are huge. Artists want the ability to say what they want to say. They want an audience that they can say it to. They want to have fun doing what they do and feel connected to it. Nerves and fears, think a base human fear, that is a core problem for all human beings. My conclusion is based on my conversations and experiences with artists, is not feeling good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. Somewhere in our lives, everybody has had an issue with worthiness, somewhere. It shows up in relationship or it shows up here or in a few places.

Wendy Parr: The truth is you're born you're worthy. We're humans and we have frailty. We're human and we have fear. But your soul, your spirit, who you are is worthy. I truly believe if we address that and find our core worth that everything blooms from there. Our ability to succeed blooms from there. So yeah, worthiness and loving yourself is a great part of how you succeed in the world. I don't mean succeed just like you'll be a success, there'll be a greater peace and happiness and fulfillment in your life.

Wendy Parr: Because no matter what your success is, that's not your validation. But I also think you can have greater success because you value yourself, right? So that plays out in what you say yes to and what you say no to and how you get paid for something or you don't. Where you're willing... Yeah, I'm putting in my time, sweat here because I believe... Because I'm worth it. So now I'm going to put in the work because I'm worth it and what I have to say is worth sharing.

Wendy Parr: I think that that's really key. The bottom line of feeling worthy. Where artists get confused is asking the audience to give them their worth or ticket sales, your worth. Or Spotify streams, your worth. Now, those are business numbers and they reflect if your message is coming across authentically. If it is authentic, it's a reflection of marketing skills sometimes. How come my numbers aren't up? Well that algorithm is keeping people from seeing you. That's not just what you're selling.

Wendy Parr: There's the what you got artistically and then there's the business side of it. Those are different components. But when you ask your audience to validate you, when applause means I'm good, I'm good. That's when we're in trouble because it's not an audience's job to validate the artist, it's the artists job to move and emotionally affect the audience. Applause is not you're worthy, you're great. Applause is, "You're doing your job. I'm feeling so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Oh my gosh, you're taking me somewhere. I'm having a good time or I'm crying or I'm enraged."

Wendy Parr: Applause is an indication that you're doing your job. We don't want it to be a source of validation. You're bigger and better than your voice. You're so much more than that. This is just the vehicle that you get to share and touch people with, which is so beautiful. It's so powerful. It's a responsibility and a privilege because you're really healing people and affecting people and that is a privilege and a responsibility.

Michael Walker: Oh, what's up guys. Quick intermission from podcasts so I can tell you about an awesome free gift that I have for you. I want to share something that's not normally available to the public. They normally reserve for our $5,000 clients that [inaudible 00:20:45]. This is a presentation called six steps to explode your fan base and make a profit with your music online. Specifically, we're going to walk through how to build a paid traffic and automated funnel. It's going to allow you to grow your fan base online and the system is designed to get you to your first $5,000 a month with your music.

Michael Walker: We've invested over $130,000 in the past year to test out different traffic sources and different offers. Really see what's working best right now for musicians. I think it's going to be hugely valuable for you. And so, if that's something you're interested in, in the description there should be a little link that you can click on to go get that. The other thing I want to mention is, if you want to do us a huge favor.

Michael Walker: One thing that really makes a big difference early on when you're creating a new podcast is if people click Subscribe then it basically lets the algorithm know that this is something that's new and noteworthy and that people actually want to hear. And so that will help us reach a lot more people. So if you're getting value from this and you get value from the free trainings, then if want to do us a favor, I'd really appreciate you clicking the subscribe button. All right, let's get back to the podcast.

Michael Walker: Wow, that's so so good. I love how you just took this conversation and literally just drilled it into the core need, the biggest issue or block for us as humans and that feeling of not enough, not being good enough, worthiness. Gosh, I mean, how do people reprogram themselves to not have to rely on validation or external validation? Where does that come from? That's something that... Almost... I don't know if I talked to a single human being who doesn't have that feeling. Where they achieve something, they become successful then it's like well okay what now and what's next [inaudible 00:22:30].

Wendy Parr: Right.

Michael Walker: Where does that come from? How do people-

Wendy Parr: That can also be something else. So not feeling worthy can drive you. That's not a bad thing, right? It's driving you. But again, I think to be driven by your joy and passion and to be driven by fear are very different life experiences. I want to help people be driven by their joy and passion and purpose instead of fear and pain. But what you also just said was, oh okay, I accomplish this. What's next? That's also the human spirit of resilience. We want to... Oh, life is... Let's do more of this cool thing. It's also the creative mind.

Wendy Parr: The creative mind is always breaking something down. How would I... You can walk into a room and be like, I would put that couch over there. Instead of this music, I'd play this music. I think that's the creative mind as well. It's constantly building creating, wants to create an atmosphere or something. And so for that, it's very important. There's an exercise I like to suggest everybody does. In the morning, you practice gratitude. You make a gratitude list in the morning of 10 things you're grateful for. They can be, I'm grateful for my morning coffee. I'm grateful for my friends. Again, it's not all about career success. What are you grateful for?

Wendy Parr: At the end of the day, a self appreciation list where you can just appreciate 10 things about yourself that day. Some of them can be, oh, I reached out to that mentor that I really want to talk to. I fed myself lunch. How many people we skip a meal because we're just so into what we're doing? Cool, we're really into it but at the same time you might be not taking care of yourself. So acknowledging that I took care of myself. Acknowledging I made a boundary. Whatever that is because, again, as creatives, we're driving towards big goals. When you climb one mountain, you start another mountain and you feel you're at the bottom again but it's a whole new mountain.

Wendy Parr: So it's very important to recognize, oh, I just climbed that mountain. Let me don't forget that. Let me remember that and that can build the confidence and strength to start this new climb. I think self appreciation is very important to acknowledge... I'm definitely someone, I'm making lists now which I never did. But I physically make lists and I check things off. So I recognize, you actually did a lot today because there's always so much more to do.

Wendy Parr: We can feel like that's endless and then we feel we're not accomplishing anything. You go oh, no, no, look. You did all these things today. That's actually a lot. Just aim for three to five. Maximum five things to do each day. Do them fully, do them wholeheartedly. Get to something. It goes... Put it on Thursday. Or you have... I have an idea, oh I need to do that. Yes but that's not a priority for the deadline I have. Okay, that goes on my list of things to do. I'll talk about that. I'll look at that next week or even next month.

Wendy Parr: Yes, I want to do it and getting it out of my head and on paper or on my work business app. But seeing those check marks really helps. Because I'd be the same. It'd be like, I haven't done anything and there's so much to do. There is but look what you've actually accomplished. The other thing you asked about, how do we address that? You really said it. You said how do we reprogram? Because it is a programming. Our brains have patterns. That's what I do with singing. I help someone change the way they're using the muscles and the voice to create a new pattern.

Wendy Parr: For that we have to change the brainwaves. It's very fascinating. You can see where the body wants to... I'm used to this thing. But once we start doing something that feels better, there comes a time when the body's like, I can't even do that old thing anymore. That shit hurts. That hurts, that thing I was doing for so long. But for... In the beginning, they'll hang on to it. It'll want to because it's familiar. So we do what's weird, we do what's uncomfortable, what's unfamiliar for a minute so we do something that people will say is hard or uncomfortable. I'm like, it's just new and unfamiliar.

Wendy Parr: We do that enough times till it becomes familiar then becomes more comfortable. And then it becomes, oh it feels good. I'm strong at it. More confidence. Oh, this feels better than the other thing. Similar for the brain for worthiness. Right? There's... My website, I have a recommendation page with books and films and cool things for... Some of it is exactly for this, changing patterns and inspiration for music and like oh, this is really inspiring movie, check it out. Joe Dispenza specifically has incredible meditations. It's called breaking the habit of being yourself. How to lose your mind and build a new one.

Wendy Parr: He has wonderful meditations to help you reprogram the patterns. On my website, I have some links to people that I think are really, really effective at what they do. One of them is Wayne. He's a healer and he's an energetic healer. He helps you get to those patterns and break them. It's like instead of 10 years of therapy, it's an hour of shifting. I've worked with him personally. I've seen well over 60 people that I've recommended work with him. I've seen their lives change, anxieties shift and disappear and breakthroughs happen.

Wendy Parr: So personally, I work with him and he's part of my support system for people because I've seen how effective he is. I am, I'm gratefully not the same person. I don't make the same choices I used to make. Thank goodness. I'm still growing, still evolving, right? I can't say I'm Buddha like oh I love myself in every way. I'm not there yet. I don't know if I will be this lifetime. But I strive to be a person who is kind and have tools to help me through things that are challenging and struggling because that's life. We're not going to be happy all the time. We're not supposed to be.

Wendy Parr: To embrace my sadness or embrace the experience. Be like, oh okay, so what am I getting out of this? What am I learning from this? I'm grateful I can just feel this feeling. It's beautiful feeling to feel this way. But then again, the tools to not stay on that train for too long.

Michael Walker: Yeah, that's so good. It sounds on a certain level it's important to... There's that feeling of not enoughness. That's something as almost a part of the human condition. That's part of the... The joy of life is really the growth and experimentation and becoming. But the energy through which you express yourself is really important. And so, gratitude is a really powerful tool for really reflecting and acknowledging the progress you're making, because otherwise it's like a Facebook newsfeed or it's like you keep scrolling. It just never ends.

Michael Walker: It's going to keep coming and coming. There's unlimitless amount [inaudible 00:29:03] so you really do. I loved what you said too about really narrowing down to five things. If you narrow it down to the top five things to accomplish every day and then you do those things, then you're going to be way further ahead than if you had 50 things and they're all scattered and it's hard to keep track of.

Wendy Parr: For sure. When I lived in Bombay... Actually Shabana Azmi, she was a very inspiring person in my life. She's amazing Bollywood... Actually not just Bollywood. She's an actress from... She started the first what would be equivalent to our Indie films in India. She's a Member of Parliament. She's an amazing woman. She said it in Bombay. She's like, "Oh you can do one thing every day in Bombay because the traffic is so big." She's like, "If you have to go somewhere for something just plan on one thing a day." Whereas, in New York I would get so much done. And then I got to Indian and was like oh no, you can't actually do that here.

Wendy Parr: It was wonderful for me because it helped... India helped me slow down and appreciate a lot of things. It definitely shifted a lot. So I would bring my New York attitude to India to boom, boom, boom. But then I'd also bring my India experience back to New York to be like, I'm not going to over schedule myself so hard. I'm going to do things each day that really fulfill me. My yoga class or my spin class, whatever it is, I can't cut that out of my life. That has to be... I have to feed myself.

Wendy Parr: It was learning that right, feed myself and give back and do my work. Feed myself and give. But that was very funny because in Bombay it was like you get one thing done... And so I went from doing 20 things in New York to a few in India and then finding a balance back in New York to... I still... I have a lot of energy. I do a lot in a day and it can still feel like I didn't do enough because that list is long. It's also... My girlfriend... I was going to make a joke and say she makes me... She doesn't make me, she's really helping me have a better balance of life because she's like nope, the computer is off now. I want to sit and have dinner with her. I want to just converse with her. I want to hang out. I want my time in my life with her. I ride horses and I'm learning natural horsemanship and that part of my life is essential.

Wendy Parr: So I'm like, nope, that doesn't get cut out for work. That's a part of my whole life. That makes me a very happy person. It also informs me as a coach so much. So much because I'm a learner in that space and empowers me as a human. Learning, this is your [inaudible 00:31:36] you get to just learn and enjoy without the pressure of I have to have it tomorrow. Okay, can I help the artists I work with feel that way even though they have an album coming out in a month or they're going on tour and they're like, I got to fix this now. I'm like come let's see if we can take the pressure off before the career [inaudible 00:31:53] in. Let's still get it done because, again, I think pressure can be healthy. Deadlines are healthy, but it's how we approach them. It's how we work with them. Because they're not stressing us but they are motivating us.

Michael Walker: Yeah, it's like the... I think I've heard the term use stress versus normal stress. Use stress is the healthy kind of stress where you're stressing yourself but it's healthy, it makes us happy. It's joyful stress versus the powerless stress.

Wendy Parr: Yes.

Michael Walker: So, for someone who's listening or watching this right now, I mean, this is such... This is literally the foundation of your music career and your life and just who you are as a human being is you're discovering your purpose and your message and being authentic to who you are. For someone who's here right now on the receiving end, what would you recommend in terms of getting started with how... Such a deep topic to flesh out but where do they get started? How do they start discovering that in themselves? It's really like sit down with a notebook? Ask them some questions? What would you recommend?

Wendy Parr: Yeah, for sure, that's a good place to start. Well, definitely The Ride. My class, The Ride is a great place to start. The Artist Circle is a space where we explore these things. In the Artist Circle, and then I'm going to give you something that you can do right now as you're listening for sure. In the Artist Circle, we do topics that are both inner work and career building. I have special guests in the wellness world and then mental health. We'll do meditations, we do yoga and then we do career building with marketing strategy, music management, touring.

Wendy Parr: So we go in and then how do we go out? We go in how do we go out? How do we take the in out in a business way, right? And so in that space, we're really working at emotional intelligence and how do I deal with the ups and downs of my career? Through the conversations we have, and you have with other artists, you really build a support team. I'm not the only resource there giving you ideas. Everyone in that room is talking to each other. So you walk away having met new mentors, mentees, peers, industry professionals and people create collaborations and business relationships and friendships from who you're meeting in that space.

Wendy Parr: So I think that's actually really important. It's so important that we go inside. But it's also so important that we have conversation and connection to other people because if you're only in your own head, you only have A, your ideas, your beliefs and nothing... No comparison. And so oh, I think I'm doing it all wrong. I'm the only one who feels this way. And then you get in a room with other creatives you're like, this isn't a me issue. This is a creative issue.

Wendy Parr: This isn't a me issue. This is a 2020 issue in the world of music, right? So you start finding out, oh, I'm not the only one who's struggling with this. David just told me that he does this, this and this for it. I had never tried that second one. I'm going to try that. Mike just told me, Karen just said this. That was really inspiring. That shifted my perspective. So going inside is so important but also conversation and awareness and information from other people is so important. Because it gives you new perspectives and also can shift your awareness and ideas about things that like I said, are only coming from you. If you don't know what the standard is because you're only in your own head, then you find out the standard, you're like, oh wait, I'm doing all right here.

Michael Walker: I'm sure every musician that's listening to this right now can have an experience of where they were writing a song or they were recording something and they got in their own head. They got stuck on a certain part of it, like does this sound right? Or trying to fix it? When just having a friend or having someone else that you trust there to listen to immediately be like, "Oh yeah, that sounds great." Okay, cool.

Wendy Parr: Cool. Again, I love listening to podcasts. Listening to one, there's a new school of thought about education. I was like, yes please because sitting in a chair and just being thrown information for eight hours is not learning. I hate it. And then what he's saying is that everyone just needs a grandma in the room. You don't need anyone directing you what to do. You see the grandma saying... You go to your grandma and say, "Look what I just did." And they say, "Honey that's great. Go do another one." You just need encouragement.

Wendy Parr: We just need some encouragement. With that encouragement can sometimes be in that space, someone saying, or as you said, if a friend listens to the song says, I don't understand what's happening there. There's a question to me there. You go, I was having a question there too. Okay, I'm going to go play with that. They don't have to tell you what to do. They just are acknowledging that same feeling you were having. The encouragement is, yes, you're on the right track, that part's off. Or no, I totally dig it. The encouragement is no, it's there don't overthink it. Oh okay.

Wendy Parr: So I think one of the things you can definitely ask yourself is, with each choice you're making, put up my two hands. In the left hand is the gig the thing, the content you want to make, whatever the thing is. On the right hand is what you think you're going to get out of it. Take the right hand away because it doesn't exist. Whatever you think you're going to get out of situation, you don't know. I think it's that person I want to work with them because they're connected. But they're a jerk. Or I want to do that job because...

Wendy Parr: Whatever the thing is you think you're getting out of it, take that away. Now, the thing itself, do you want to do it? Are you going to learn from it? Do you the people? Are you being respected in that? Are you in over your head? Which means you're going to be challenged? That's excellent. Or are the people jerks? Are they underpaying you? Sometimes that can be okay. You're like, no the learning is so great, I'm getting paid to learn. That works for me. No, it's so little that I feel really disrespected. I'd rather have my time to do what I want to do until I get a job that pays that.

Wendy Parr: I'll work my day job instead of that, right? So look at the thing. If you're passionate about it, you love it, it feels good. This is where I look at integrity. Is it aligned with your integrity then say yes. For each choice you're making, is this working for me? Someone I was working with the other day. They were creating some content for social media. They are like, "I did it twice and then I just stopped because I realized I didn't really like it. We talked about it. So tell me what you didn't about it. What did you...

Wendy Parr: I was like, this sounds a really cool thing you're doing. I like the concept of it. They said, well, I just realized I don't like doing it alone. I did the second one with some friends and that was really fun. I did the first one by myself at home. I was like, so there's your solution. Just do each thing with a friend. Maybe you have the same friend a lot. Maybe you do it with different friends. Or maybe you do it in... You go to a public space so there's someone next to you doing it also and you have a conversation with them.

Wendy Parr: I was like that's the answer. You prefer having that ping pong with somebody instead of just doing it alone. Maybe after you've done a bunch of them, maybe you'd be like, oh I can do this one alone because it makes sense for me to do it at home. Or maybe not. Maybe for you it's always having someone to engage with. That's an easy solution. Now you are enjoying the thing that you want to be doing. Solved. So sometimes it's finding that thing that, yeah I did this or it's almost there but it's not quite. Okay, why? What would make more sense? What's in alignment with you?

Wendy Parr: If someone said, oh, you should sing this song. This would be a great cover for you. Yeah, it's a huge hit right now but the lyrics say nothing that you want to say to people in the world. That's the opposite message that I want to give. Don't do that song. Because, again, you think you're going to get something out of it because it's a hit song and people will find you, but it goes against your grain. It goes against the message you want to say. That's actually more important.

Wendy Parr: Find a song that's the message, make that super unique. People will find that and resonate with you, but we won't resonate if you don't. We won't resonate with it. Or worse, you pull it off, you do a really great job of that song and you get known for it, now you got to sing it for seven years or for the rest of your career and you hate it. You hate the song, the lyrics, you wish you never did it. Now you're suffering, right? That's not what we want. You want to be in alignment with everything you do.

Wendy Parr: That of course also changes. Six years later, you might be like, yeah I don't really feel that way anymore. But I was in alignment when I wrote it. Or maybe my relationship to that song I wrote 10 years ago is different. But I still stand by it. Yeah, it's still me but I feel differently around it, I can still sing it. That's different than nope. Never felt it. Never wanted to do it but I did it because my manager thought I should or da da da. Something that's not in alignment with you.

Wendy Parr: For me, that's always the answer, is what's in alignment with your integrity with your passion, your love. That doesn't mean the artist needs to be in... If the artist is in a place of, I know what I'm doing it, I got it, I got it. You're not listening anyone. You're also in trouble. It's not that. It's not ego again, it's integrity. We know when we're bending. We know when we're diminishing ourselves. We know when we're diminishing... Because you've got twists up. You're like [inaudible 00:40:55]. I don't feel good about this.

Wendy Parr: That's what we don't want to go against. The opposite is, do everything that lights your fire and then tweak it. You put three things out in the world. One of them, the audience is going nuts for, okay, keep doing that. You put it out there because you like it. So you feel good about it maybe you're like, "But I really love this other thing more." Yeah but the audience is still responding to this. Do more of it. Then the other two will follow or a new idea will come but that's not selling out. That's responding organically to what... I'm being truthful. I'm being authentic.

Wendy Parr: Then you keep giving the audience what they respond to. So simple, my Instagram, I started doing... I do vocal tips and creative tips. That's what gets... Most people respond to that. That's what they want from me, right? So all right, let's just keep doing that thing that I originally had the impulse to do. For sure let's keep doing that. And then how can I grow that? I have a new idea I'm about to start. That is a elaborated version of my coaching because that's what people want us... If I put a flier up... Well actually I used to put a lot of stuff up of artists I work with.

Wendy Parr: That's not what people responded to because if they wanted to see what was happening with Paris, they go to their Instagram page. I put it on my story because I'm still shouting out to people. I do do a shout out. I'm like, hey check out this artist or check out this product because I really believe in it. Because again, I'm sharing something. But it was that same learning of yeah, people want me on my page. I find it slightly silly. No, that's not the right word, not silly.

Wendy Parr: I find it a little awkward I have to take a lot of pictures of myself in order for me to put pictures of myself on Instagram. But that's because my ego is like I don't care to put my face out there. However, the format of Instagram responds to my face. A good shot and then I can talk something creative or I can share something personal. So I personally find it slightly awkward just because I'm not... I don't care about having my picture taken over and over. But I do want to share with people and so to do that, that's what I'm going to do. Again, like I said, I put fliers up and like, yeah, no one responds to that. They're not going to get my message if that's what I'm putting up.

Michael Walker: Right. Feels like it comes back to what we talked about at the beginning about the mindset of really just serving on the biggest level and thinking about how can I make the biggest positive impact and help other people. Deep down that's really what lights all of our fires the most. Is really expressing our unique gifts and contributing. It sounds like what you're saying is that really aligning that with yourself because if you're... It's kind of if like if you're... Let me see if... I got my keyboard here with me.

Michael Walker: All of us have a frequency that we're resonating in, that's authentic to us. Maybe it's this chord. Maybe there is a different chord. Maybe there's this chord where yeah, it would light up and you'd attract other people who are at that frequency. But if you do that thing, that doesn't sound good to you but it just sounds good to someone else, then when you put it together with who you actually... Your frequency, it just doesn't line up. It's really important to reflect and say, listen to yourself and start playing that and then start resonating and bring in people that resonate with that, the same kind of thing.

Wendy Parr: That's right. That's the thing I said when we started. I said I walked into this store that I never walked into in 13 years in New York. It was a whole nother world and I thought, wow, millions of people are super into this. I had no idea they existed. So yes, whatever you do will resonate with people. If it resonates with you, your audience... And the thing that is amazing about the world we live in now is they can find you. Through all the social media platforms, people can find you.

Wendy Parr: You've got to put it out there. You got to learn how to do that but people can 100% find you. So yeah, like I said polka meets salsa music and there will be people who are super into it. Like, oh. It is, it's listening to yourself. Listening to what matches your heart and resonates and then following it through with is it landing? Because if it's only serving you, I don't want to watch a movie and the actors crying and I'm not. I'm like, how about me? I'm watching this movie so I can feel something and have a reaction. Not watch you have a reaction. I want to have emotional experience.

Wendy Parr: You got to make sure that what you're doing is then landing. Okay, I'm feeling it, but am I taking my audience on this ride with me? Are they feeling it. Yes they are? Okay, so that's working. And that can be so many layered things. That's your personal vulnerability and then it can be the arrangements. When you go from a record to live, you've got to find the sound of the band that then translates with the live audience, right? So one artist I work with, one of their early tours, the band had a configuration and it wasn't really translating.

Wendy Parr: By the second tour, they changed the setup of the band. The actual instrumentations that were... The instruments that were on stage. That became actually their pretty standard setup because oh yeah, this translates my music better live. It's really... Now I'm feeling it and the audience is feeling it the way I'm intending them to. But it took a couple incarnations of the actual instruments and the players. It's a back and forth between this is what's lighting my fire. I'm loving this. Okay now how do I share it? Is landing. Tweak, oh, it's landing. Amazing. Let's go on this journey together now.

Wendy Parr: And then, like I said, you grow as a human so then you keep tweaking that because chocolate ice cream is great. I love chocolate. Ooh, I want chocolate sprinkles now. Ooh, I want chocolate with raspberry mousse. Ooh, I want chocolate with something that's sophisticated. With almonds and caramel sauce. Ooh, I'm feeling like a kid. I want chocolate with vanilla bubblegum in the middle. You're being you but you keep exploring different sides of you.

Wendy Parr: You have a relationship, you become a parent, you have 10 years of touring under your belt. You're an evolved version of you. But you're still going to be chocolate unless you jump ship and we're like, oh oh, everybody's vanilla now I better be vanilla. And that's the end of your career. You got to be true to who you are. Be another version of chocolate.

Michael Walker: You're also making me very hungry. Now I really want some ice cream. It sounds... What you're saying is that it's important to find that balance between you have to be authentic to yourself and do what lights you. But at the same time, if you want to be successful and to connect with people and reach more people people and resonate, then you also have to consider them and whether it's connecting with them. Whether it's landing. It's like a Venn diagram almost where it's like you have your circle, then you have the other circle. It's like where do those meet in the middle? When you find that, then it's like great. You can be authentic to yourself and express that. That's the thing that really connects with other people.

Wendy Parr: 100% because you're not going to lose your authenticity landing with your audience. It's actually going to get more authentic/ grow. Again, it's not selling out. It's recognizing this thing I do or again, I'll share this. Donna Summer was an amazing painter. She loved painting. There's actually a number of artists who are tremendous painters or they have other creative outlets. Carolyn Mace, she's on my book list. An incredible writer. She's a writer, a speaker, she's very much about how to get congruent with who you are. Check out her book, Sacred Contracts.

Wendy Parr: It's all about understanding who you are archetyply which amazing amazing. She wanted to be a fiction writer. Well, she's written dozens of books just none of them are fiction. Donna Summer loved to paint. She's a painter. Joni Mitchell, painter. But what vein, what avenue was their primary way to connect to people, that people resonated and responded? Music. Thank goodness we have Donna Summer the singer. This is where I'll go to Barry White or Toni Braxton and some people might not know who they are right now. Go check them both out. Toni Braxton, Barry White.

Wendy Parr: If Toni Braxton was trying to sound Mariah Carey at the time, we wouldn't get Toni Braxton. She's a deep low voice. Barry White, big deep bass. If he tried to sound like Marvin Gaye, we wouldn't have gotten Barry White. We would have missed out on his beautiful genius talent, voice, message, soft music. It really is. Don't try to be an orange if you're an apple. Literally embrace everything you are. Like I said, check out my website. I send out creative tips. Check out my Instagram. Come take the ride. The ride is a deep dive into understanding who are you.

Wendy Parr: I actually have coming out very shortly, so you can look for it in a minute. There's a giveaway. There's a... One of the exercises I do on the ride is to help people get really connected to the music that they love. What is my musical recipe? I'm sharing that exercise publicly so you can take it. Take that... Do the exercise for yourself and you'll be surprised. Worked with an artist from Japan. His music, all the music he grew up with and culturally loving was R&B.

Wendy Parr: Everything around him was R&B, that's what his friends listened to. That's what was popular. But when we did this exercise, he discovered he loves rock and roll and he didn't know it. He's like, I didn't realize how much I love rock and roll. Mike, so you want to make some music that has rock and roll. Either it is rock and roll or it's rock and roll meets your R&B but it was like, oh my gosh, there's this whole genre of music I didn't realize I'm so passionate about. So you'd be really unhappy making a lifetime of music that you didn't really vibe with because it's what was influencing you only, right?

Wendy Parr: So now he started making music that had the flavors he loves and is driven by his guitar playing. That's a career you're going to enjoy. That's a daily experience that you're going to enjoy. Not just your career. Be like, oh, I get to wake up every day making music I actually love.

Michael Walker: I love that. And so, to take things back to... I really like the exercise that you shared with holding out two hands and one hand is what you think you're going to get out of something in the future versus the other hand being the thing, the actual act, the present moment. What you get out of it and using it as a barometer to decide what is worthwhile. Because one of those things is just an idea and it's not actually true compared to the one that is actually what you're going to experience. The things that making the biggest impact and expressing the most joy are the things that in the moment are the things that are joyful.

Michael Walker: I love that exercise and I love that you have so many resources for artists for helping them to tap into... Because this is such a deep foundational issue slash opportunity for artists. It's one of the things that you're always discovering who you are. And as soon as you think that you know who you are, then it's like, all right, well shoot, that's not who I am. Now who am I? [inaudible 00:51:57].

Wendy Parr: The world is going to challenge you. As soon as you think you have a handle on something, the world's going to be like, we're going to throw you a little ringer.

Michael Walker: Right. Exactly. I love that your whole purpose is around helping people to express themselves. I know there's a lot of different resources that you offer for artists. If someone's listening to this right now and you had to narrow it down and give them maybe one place to go to learn more from you or connect with you, what do you recommend that they go to?

Wendy Parr: Well, if you go to my website, sign up for my newsletter, you'll get an inspiring newsletter. You'll get information about when my events are. So the artist circle happens regularly. Then rotating courses on foundation beyond the notes, the ride. If you sign up for my newsletter, you'll get... Like I said, you'll get some inspiration. Instagram, I'm very active, like I said, my creative tips around Instagram. You can scroll through the series on IGTV. There's stuff there for singing and songwriting and creativity.

Wendy Parr: But yeah, my website, obviously is the hub to get to any of them. YouTube has a bunch of creatives tips on them. Constantly putting it out there. I love sharing. You can hear me talk. I somehow think that what I have to say is meaningful and so I have enough courage to open my mouth and share it, but I do. I really want... I would to change the culture where life is more fulfilling for more people and more spaces are safe spaces to be vulnerable. If you're getting up on stage, that's a designated space for vulnerability,

Wendy Parr: You come to work with me, designated space for vulnerability. Walk down the street, not a designated space for vulnerability. But I'd like to see more places in the world be safe for everyone to be honest, authentic and vulnerable. We'd have a more powerful world that way.

Michael Walker: So good. Yeah, I think that is a point because sometimes can be the most difficult stuff to bring up into process. I know meditation in particular, it seems like sitting in silence would be the easiest thing you could possibly imagine doing. But it can be so difficult when you're getting started because that stuff starts to come up and it can be scary. I love that that's really your purpose and your vision is to give people that space to be who they are, and express it because there's something healing about that so it's awesome.

Michael Walker: So what we'll do for everyone listening or watching this right now is we'll put a link in the description, make it as simple as possible to go check out yourself and I would highly recommend going and doing it. I myself... We're new friends so I haven't been to Artists Circle yet but I'm sold. I want to be on the next one. It sounds awesome. We're going to stay in touch. I'd love to connect more and attend to one of those. So, Wendy, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and to share your wisdom and what you've learned. For everyone that's listening this right now, definitely check out the show notes and go connect with Wendy.

Wendy Parr: Thanks for having me.

Michael Walker: Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about the guest today. If you want to support podcasts, then there's a few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends on your social media and tag us that really helps us out. And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take the music career to the next level. The time to be a modern musician is now and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.