K Sparks:
Always make sure you read the fine print because what might appear to be non-exclusive sometimes isn't always the case. So if you do get true-to-form non-exclusive agreements, that can really work because it allows you to get your music in multiple libraries free and clear.

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician, and it's only getting better. If you have high quality music but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people to generate a sustainable income with your music, I'm going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry, and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker:
All right. I'm super excited to be here today with Kyle Hunter also known as K Sparks. Kyle is a musician and an entrepreneur. He's written over 500 songs, recorded with Kid Cudi, gotten over 8.3 million streams on Spotify, SoundCloud and Apple Music. He's the CEO of a business called Rhythm Couture. That's how you pronounce it, right? Couture?

K Sparks:
Yeah, That's right.

Michael Walker:
Need to double check. It's a very sophisticated word. Basically, their purposes of business is they help artists to sync their music to businesses. And some of the placements that they've gotten are with 50 Cent on the TV series, Power, Nick Cannon with LeBron James on a Powerade campaign, Calvin Klein, Vans, Forever 21, MTV, so a lot of really established businesses. And so, today, I think it'd be really valuable to focus on, as a musician, as an independent artist, how do you get your music synced? How do you license your music? Because it does seem that's a really big opportunity for artists who, they need to be able to sustain themselves and to generate revenue, and it seems licensing is one of the best ways to do that. So Kyle, thanks so much for taking the time to be here today.

K Sparks:
Well, thanks for having me, Michael. I'm really happy to be here, man.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, man. Absolutely. So to start out with, I'd love to hear a little bit about your story and how you got started on this path of becoming the CEO of Rhythm Couture.

K Sparks:
Oh, definitely. Definitely. So my story starts out in Queens, New York, anybody familiar with New York City, they know about Queens. Our culture musically is very rich. We've had acts like Run DMC, LL Cool J, NAS, The Lost Boys, 50 Cent, the list just goes on and on. Even some historically, jazz players came out of St. Alban's. For a duration of time, James Brown was in Queens too. A lot of icons in the music culture. So the duration that I grew up in Queens actually was during the '80s, and they coined that the crack era pretty much. So growing up during that time, it was very, very turbulent during the younger years there was a lot of narcotics just being flooded into our community.

K Sparks:
We saw a lot of substance abuse, a lot of gang violence, high rates of incarceration, and things were very terrible. I remember my mom used to walk me and my brother to school in the morning and we would see all these vials on the ground, and those are crack vials. We didn't know what it was, but my mom would always tell us, "Never touch those. Drugs are like that, they're destroying people's lives." So we understood at a young age, like our parents would always tell us, "You just have to not let your situation that you're in be a final destination." So even though you might not be in the best current environment, you can actually change that just with your positive mindset and knowing where you want to go.

K Sparks:
So me and my brother, we always knew that we didn't want to stay in that environment and that we had to really just motivate and push ourselves to come out of that. So for me, my thing was always music. I was always just a creative, just always had lots of passion and artistic... I would draw or do music, that was my thing. And I always knew, I said, "Well, you know what? I know that I don't want to stay in this environment, that I want better and I want more." So I just started doing a lot of different... writing for different artists and studios. And then it graduated from me writing for these artists to actually putting together my own projects. Back in the days, I used to sell them out of the trunk of my car, actually.

K Sparks:
I would drive around Queens and just have all these mix-tapes, like 500 mix-tapes, I would have my street team, and by the end of the day, they all would be gone. So we started generating a buzz locally. Then out of that studio, they were a lot of people that record out of that studio. Erykah Badu went to that studio, [Cartier 00:04:48] came to that studio. So I started building a lot of really great relationships with people, shopping music to labels, and then just writing for a lot of different acts. And then what ended up happening was, I got approached by an ANR for a music licensing company. And at the time I didn't know what music licensing was, I was foreign to this.

K Sparks:
And she said, "Well, hey, we like your music. We would like to pitch it for opportunities to get in TV and film." So I said, "All right." I gave them a couple of songs. I didn't give them too many because I didn't really trust them out the gate, I didn't know what the outcome would be, so I played it a little safe, but the handful of songs that I did give them, I never forget, it could have been maybe three months later, they gave me a few thousand dollars. And I was amazed. I was like, "Wow, this is really something that's actually viable." So from that point, I started giving more music, writing more music for different TV shows, films.

K Sparks:
It was so lucrative over time, I've eventually decided, "You know what, I'm just going to actually formulate my own singing company," because I had so many viable working relationships and so many talented musicians that I worked with. And that's essentially what I did with my business partner, Robert, we create a Rhythm Couture and we've been moving ever since, man.

Michael Walker:
Man, that's amazing, and really, really inspiring stories, especially when you talk about your upbringing and the... I'm not sure if you've ever read the book, a Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl. It's basically a book written by someone who was in the middle of the Holocaust and was in a concentration camp and basically had lost his family. He just went through the absolute worst circumstances you can ever imagine. And throughout that experience, realized that the most important thing isn't the circumstances, but it's how you respond and it comes from inside. And it sounds that's what you were just having as well, is that, in the midst of this turbulence, you were able to look within reinforce and have a positive mindset and have a vision to get out of that. Yeah, there's something incredibly inspiring about that.

K Sparks:
Yeah, definitely. And one thing I realized too, Michael, that no matter what situation you're in, that you can choose your actions, but you can't choose your consequences. So even though you might necessarily be in a negative environment, it's always important to be mindful of that. So, always just be persistent, but at the same time, be cognizant of those choices that you make because every choice does carry a consequence? So if you want positive results, put in positive work, positive energy, positive thoughts to actually just motivate yourself and focus in on that goal and don't waiver from it.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that's powerful. All right. Music licensing. For anyone who's listening to this right now, why should they be interested in music licensing or what are some of the biggest benefits that could come from that?

K Sparks:
Well, definitely, music licensing is an alternative to the traditional music business model. So meaning that back in the day, the goal for a musician was to get a record deal. It's like, "I have to get signed. I have to get put on because that's the only way I'm going to be successful." And I feel that, especially for the modern musician nowadays, that music licensing provides you with that opportunity to actually earn revenue and not have to rely so much on the old traditional model. Because I do feel like that old model is very vintage. There's so many other ways that artists can generate revenue and sustain a lifestyle for themselves.

K Sparks:
And the thing that I liked about it was, I realized early on, because I had plenty of record deals, I dealt with a lot of different labels and I didn't like the fact that once I got signed, there was so many chefs in the kitchen. You get signed to the ANR that likes you, but maybe necessarily the marketing department doesn't really like your project as much as they other projects, so now you're depending on them to market it. And what I about music licensing, it doesn't work that. Essentially, you can license a song, and let's say that song goes to Pepsi or Coca-Cola.

K Sparks:
Well, now you don't have to pay for a publicist for that song because Pepsi and Coca-Cola has now become your publicist, they have millions of dollars and they're investing into that campaign. So I think licensing empowers you because you get paid on the front end and you also get paid on the backend. You don't have to worry about all the things that you would have to worry about if you had a "record deal," so it really takes some of the hard work out of it, which is pretty cool.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. Yeah. So it sounds with music licensing, it's basically an alternative where you can be more independent, you don't have to rely or depend on a record label or someone, like there's different cooks in the kitchen, they may or may not all come together. So with music licensing, I guess one question would be how it plays into both models too, because it sounds like what you're saying as well is that one of the benefits of music licensing is that if you get a place spent on a Coke or Pepsi commercial, that also helps to benefit you in terms of exposure, it's like having a publicist on your team that's investing millions of dollars on your behalf.

Michael Walker:
So do you think that those two are complimentary to both having a revenue stream and music licensing, then also being able to pursue a traditional artist career and growing a fan base?

K Sparks:
Yeah, of course. And I always say, diversity is key. A lot of the musicians that we have, I tell them, "Look at music licensing like you would look at traditional investing." And when people talk about investing, they talk about active income, passive income and portfolio income. And when you look at it in terms of music, while your portfolio consists of your songs, your catalog has to be diverse. It's like investing, you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. So that artistic portfolio, you'll have multiple genres, multiple styles that you can actually pitch to these music supervisors.

K Sparks:
The active income would be something that's pretty much like you have to be physically present for. So whether it's touring, you're doing in stores, you have to show up every day or you don't get paid. The thing about music licensing, that's ideally your passive income. So even though you've made these songs and they're in your portfolio, you're still getting paid for them. So it's one of those things whereas you can actually work different markets at the same time and generate multiple income streams from licensing. So to me, it's really actually the most viable for artists because you find yourself working smarter instead of working harder?

Michael Walker:
That's so good. So let's say that someone who's listening to this right now has a little bit of experience with licensing. They've heard it talked about, but they haven't really fully implemented a strategy yet to get their songs synced. What are some of the first steps? And also, what are some of the biggest challenges that you see artists struggling with when they first get started down this path of trying to license their music?

K Sparks:
I think the first step, well artists to try to get licensed is to get your house in order. I always say that, make sure that you have the basics such as... A lot of times, artists want to get signed to my company, but they don't have a performing rights organization. So I say, "Well, these things matter. They're important because if you don't have your performing rights organization set up, then you're not taking full advantage of the opportunities that can come to you." So that's the first thing, getting that information in place, making sure that your music is sample free because oftentimes artists will have songs that have samples, and I tell them, "Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do with that."

K Sparks:
So making sure that the songs and the business side of it are actually to the point where we can actually work with the product. I think that as far as challenges for artists with music licensing, I think just understanding the business side of it, because it is different, it's not necessarily the same as the traditional music industry. So just explaining to them that difference in terms of how we operate, what we do. Sometimes artists can be a bit apprehensive, like I was in the beginning, when I first got with that music licensing company, I only gave him a couple of songs because I'm like, "I don't know what the results will be."

K Sparks:
So sometimes artists will give us like two songs and I try to explain to them, "Unfortunately, if you don't give us enough to work with, sometimes you're stifling yourself." So I always encourage them, "Try to give as much as possible because I don't want an opportunity to come for a placement and it could be a very lucrative placement opportunity, but you only gave us two songs and neither of those two songs fit this opportunity?" So I guess just actually having the mentality to be open to learning, that can really help a lot of artists.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And just in general, a really valuable mindset is just to be open to learning and constantly growing and making mistakes. So I guess that brings up a really good question. I think a lot of people, and this is probably a question that you get a lot is knowing the difference between a good deal and a bad deal. And I think artists, especially early on if they don't really understand the way of the land, they're especially worried about getting taken advantage of and are wondering how do I spot the difference between something that is a good deal on that? Sometimes you hear horror stories about things this. What is a good deal and what would be a good first step for them?

Michael Walker:
Would it be doing what you did early on and just... But then again, you just mentioned that in some ways that that can actually shoot themselves in the foot.

K Sparks:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. So I think that what a "good deal" is, it really depends on the individual artists, because what might be a good deal for one artist might not necessarily work for another artist. And I'll give you the perfect example. Like me personally, I have a lot of music. Throughout the years, it's over 500 songs, easily. So because my catalog is so big, I can actually choose what I want to do with certain songs. So if there's a handful of records that I feel actually might pop better than others, and I want to put them in exclusive arrangements for maybe like a two year term to see what can be done with them. I have the wiggle room to do that because my catalog is so big.

K Sparks:
And artists who might have a smaller catalog, let's say that they only have maybe 10 songs and all of those 10 songs hold or carry any emotional weight for them, maybe they wrote songs about their grandmother that they loved or the grandma's special oatmeal cookies and they're emotionally invested into these records, an exclusive deal for them really wouldn't be that great because they're like, "All right. I only have a small catalog, and these songs mean a lot to me. I don't want to sign an exclusive deal, I want non-exclusive deals." So it really boils down to where you're at creatively, how much music you have, and what your expectation is.

K Sparks:
I always tell artists, if you're the type of artist that likes freedom, then a non-exclusive deal would be the best for you, because it's like dating, you're non-exclusive, you get to see whoever you want to see when you want to see them. Exclusive is like marriage, there definitely was part weirdness for this term in its duration. So it all boils down to expectation. I think artists should do their due diligence to write, I would say, write it out. What are your expectations? What are your goals? And what do you want to get out of music licensing? And then as you shop your music to different outlets, whether it be a to sync agents and music licensing companies like mines, you can compare what your expectations are against what that company presents, and if it's a perfect marriage, then you go for it.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And yeah, it does seem in a lot of cases, I love that analogy as well., like the dating and building relationships, it applies to a lot of different things. But being able to date before you get married sometimes is a good decision, you don't necessarily want to just marry someone without having built a relationship first. So I'd be curious if you could share just at a high level, an overview of the steps that an artist would take. Let's say that someone has 20 songs and they're new to the licensing world, they have these songs and they've professionally recorded them, they feel proud of them.

Michael Walker:
And let's imagine that these songs are actually very syncable, that they're a good fit for some different media. What are the overarching steps that they need to take in order to successfully license that music? And what are a few different options, because I know that, like you just mentioned, you could work with a publishing company, you could work out different deals or some people might try to go straight to like a supervisor. What'd the overall framework look like?

K Sparks:
There's options. The main ones that a lot of musicians do. And if, let's say, like you said, they had 20 songs, the first option would be to say, "All right. You know what? I'm going to try to get this music to music licensing companies." And a lot of times what happens is, people don't know where to start. And I always tell them, "Well, Google is your best friend." You can Google music licensing companies, sync companies, and from there, you formulate your list and do your due diligence to read reviews. Because a lot of times artists will read reviews for companies and say, "All right. This company's great. This company, not so much." And then from that point, you can essentially see which company you want to submit your music to.

K Sparks:
Now, if someone had 20 songs, I would say, like we talked about the portfolio, diversification. So even though your music can be diverse, so can your picks for your pitching. You don't have to be married to one company if you have non-exclusive agreements. So you could take those 20 songs and break them down into groups of five, and target four a music licensing companies and say, "You know what, I'm going to pursue these companies. Once I get non-exclusive agreements with them, I will give five songs to each of those companies." And then you can see how the performance goes from there, because they all have terms, they all have terms, unless it's a document that states in perpetuity.

K Sparks:
And out the gate, I wouldn't advise anyone to sign anything in perpetuity, especially if it hasn't been performance-based. If you were at a company for years and it's generating a lot of revenue for you, then if you're comfortable with it, you say, "Okay, you know what? I'm pulling down six figures from this company. I don't mind signing a couple of songs in perpetuity because they have a proven track record." But out the gate, you really want to do non-exclusive just to fill it out.

K Sparks:
So that's one avenue they can go. The second avenue would be to actually pursue music supervisors yourself. Now, what I always tell musicians is that it sounds great, but it's much harder because the reality is that everyone has built in relationships. And we all know your network is your net worth, the people that you surround yourself with. And these music supervisors, they have proven relationships with sync companies, a lot of different people already. So a lot of times it's kind of, I would liken it to sending your demo blindly to a record label ANR. The first thing they're going to say is, no unsolicited material, because they have to protect their best interests.

K Sparks:
So a lot of music supervisors, most of the time, they don't like getting unsolicited material from people they don't know because they don't know your intention, they don't know if you're the type of person that's an opportunist and you're sending the song and then you come in with a lawsuit five months later, "Oh, you stole my idea, the song [crosstalk 00:20:42]." So they have their guards up, and rightfully so. But that's not to say that you can't have some success because there are some music supervisors that wouldn't be receptive to musicians pitching them directly.

K Sparks:
And what I do tell them is that be mindful of how you pitch. You want to do certain things, like you don't want to bog down their email with attachments. Don't be that artist who you attached 30 songs and it's filling up their service space. Send streaming links, be professional. Also, let them know that you are aware of the type of content that they do. So if this person that had worked on, let's say, I don't know, let's say CSI or something like that. You would say, "Hey, so-and-so, I saw the work that you did on CSI. I love the work that you did. My music is similar to LL cool. J. Maybe you would like this. Hopefully you can check it out."

K Sparks:
Be professional, don't be too long-winded, get to the point and get them to streaming links. And if it's viable and they like it, they just might contact you directly. And the second component of that, because a lot of times artists say, "Well, how do I know how to get in touch with music supervisors? Who are they?" And I always say, "Well, the easiest way is when you're watching a TV show, don't just turn it off. When the credits come on, read those credits because the credits are going to mention and name who the music supervisor is. And from there you do your due diligence. If you go on IMDb or wherever you go and you research that person, and you can reach out."

K Sparks:
So there's plenty of avenues that musicians can explore when they're trying to really get into the business?

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. Yeah. It sounds there's really two main branches or two main ways that you could go about it. One is by reaching out to supervisors directly, and one of the best ways to do that just by being observant of like who are the music supervisor on the credits. And also maybe being able to Google different shows and maybe you can find who's listed as a music supervisor, and then reaching out to them directly. And with any relationship, the way that you reach out and that you communicate is really important, make it as simple and streamlined as possible for them, not super long-winded, and get to the point. But then also, share that you've done a bit of research and that you're not reaching out blindly. So that's that's one way.

Michael Walker:
And one thing you mentioned was that, that might seem like a more appealing option, but in a lot of ways, that actually can be really challenging because you have to do a lot of extra work to build those relationships, versus maybe another path would be finding a publishing company that has already built those existing relationships. And it's a weird analogy, but my wife and I are watching Breaking Bad right now, and there's a point where they were talking about distributors versus... And this is, I don't want to take this down a weird path, but they're talking about distributing drugs, and how if you find the distributor, then they have a collection, they're the people, they have a lot of relationships. And so, in a lot of ways, finding the distributors and making a relationship with them, means that you can connect with a lot of music supervisors at once.

Michael Walker:
I would also be interested in hearing, it seems like there's been so much a movement towards technology connecting us in ways and building algorithms where it's different markets, like Uber, for example, these technology companies are connecting the providers with the suppliers or the suppliers with the people who need it. And so I'd be curious if there's anything happening that right now with music licensing. And if so, what are the pros and cons? I feel like I've seen some websites that do that, and I think there's probably pros and cons to being on a website like that.

Michael Walker:
I'd be curious in hearing your thought about how technology connects with what we're talking about right now from the standpoint of the connection between the supervisors who are looking for the music and the artists themselves, because I guess that's probably part of what a good publishing company is doing right now as well as they have a platform where people can search for what they're looking for and whatnot.

K Sparks:
Yeah. I really feel like technology has really been the major, I call it a black swan, that is something that's just out of the norm, it's able to shift culture. And culturally before, it was like mission impossible, you felt like Tom Cruise trying to form these relationships. Now, technology, I feel is the great equalizer in that term because I've had a lot of musicians come to me and say, "Hey, thanks for those tips. I was able to actually reach out and find music supervisors myself." Or they go on IMDb and they go on all of these digital platforms, whether it be social media, Instagram, or Twitter, and they're able to actually reach out in different ways.

K Sparks:
So I do feel that technology plays a large part in this because at the end of the day, without that, I think it would be very much so harder for musicians trying to form these relationships with people. So yeah, definitely technology it's at the forefront. It's always been, and it's just that much more effective now.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. For sure. I totally geek out about technology and the future. There's a book called The Singularity Is Near by Ray Kurzweil, and he goes really, really far out with some ideas and near to short term or short to midterm with technology that's really interesting, but I've had a few conversations with people who are a lot smarter than I am with music licensing stuff. And one thing that they recommend a lot is making sure that, and I think this is probably goes under the realm of what you talked about, with getting the foundations in place and making sure that you have the assets created to be of service, but I've heard a lot of people talking about metadata and making sure that you have everything set up that way. Could you talk a little bit about what that looks like?

K Sparks:
Yes, absolutely. And I'm glad you brought this up, Michael, because metadata is crucial. A lot of times, musicians will make these great, fantastic songs, but they fall short with the metadata. So essentially what metadata is, that is the DNA of the song. That means they're giving you all the information about that record and they're being very detailed. And the reason why that information has to be so detailed is because when music supervisors are looking for certain types of genres and styles and sub-genres, the metadata is going to tell the complete story for that song. So it's a record where they're saying, "Hey, we want something that's a party record."

K Sparks:
The metadata is going to say, "Hey, be up-tempo party." All of that information is going to be inside of that metadata. So I always tell musicians, and this goes back to getting your house in order, make sure your metadata is accurate and make sure you put as much as possible. Sometimes musicians will give us songs and they only have like two things in the metadata. And I'm like, you can't do that because you're selling yourself short. When music supervisors go to our site and if they are searching for certain types of music, that metadata could actually be the difference between you getting a placement that can get you thousands of dollars and I'm just skipping over your song, and your song might've been perfect for that opportunity.

K Sparks:
So I always say, be generous with the metadata. It's like you go to the restaurant and say, "Give me some extra sauce." Put some extra metadata in there, be generous really, it can help you.

Michael Walker:
I love that. When we're talking about metadata, could you share some examples of specifically what that looks like? What comes to mind is, for example, like people they're searching for mood, and let's say that they're looking to fill a certain scene in a TV show and they're like, "I want this to be somber, I want this to be hopeful." Is that what we're talking about? They can type that in, and because you've provided that as one of the words that describes the song, now it's like your song has a likelihood to pop up.

K Sparks:
Oh, definitely.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. And so what does it look like in terms of creating that metadata? Do you have any recommendations for people for one, how they just organize that and keep track of their metadata and how they even start to brainstorm and think about, "Okay, what should I add here so that this is able to show up when people are searching for it?"

K Sparks:
Yeah, most definitely. Well, for our company, we use spreadsheets and initially how we start the process is when musicians submit music to us, we tell them to let us know what the song is about, what it means, what type of emotions does it evoke, and then we expound on it. From that point, we say, "All right, we've got this foundation, we want to go even further with it." So it starts with actually just creating your own list of what you feel this song means and the emotions behind it. And I would say to take your time with it too, like maybe one day you sit down, you come up with a certain list of emotions, feelings, and then the next day you might get a light bulb and say, "Oh, this song actually evokes this emotion as well."

K Sparks:
So, I feel it's important for artists to take as much time with the metadata as they would creating the song because that can be actually a deal breaker.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. One thing that just popped into my mind too as we were talking about this is, I'm not an expert with Google AdWords or SEO, I'm more familiar with pay traffic on Instagram and Facebook ads, but I have looked a little bit into SEO research and it seems like the foundation of that strategy is that you look and you research and see, okay, what are people searching for most often? And then based on what they're searching for, sometimes you can even create content that satisfies the search criteria so that it's custom catered based on what people are looking for.

Michael Walker:
And so I wonder if that's a strategy that any musicians employ when it comes to music licensing things. is there a similar keyword research tool where you can see people searching for specific types of things, and then do people use that to be like, "Okay, now we're going to create a music that matches this." Or what's your experience with that?

K Sparks:
Yeah, definitely. That's part of what I tell my musicians too. So I always give them "homework" because my goal and Robert's goal is for our musicians to succeed. And we do that through education because knowledge is power. So the tools that we equip them with is to say, "Hey, make a list of the top 10 TV shows, watch those TV shows, listen to make sure you're actually just pretty much aware of the music that's being used. Listen to the big buildups, listen to the drops, listen to the genres, the sub-genres. Is this hip hop? Is this trap? Is this pop? What type of music are they using?"

K Sparks:
And then the second piece of the homework that we give them is to listen to billboard as well, to listen to what music is on the charts, because normally a lot of times what's charting tends to correlate with television and film. So a lot of times they do that and then they end up creating the songs that are amazing, and we're able to pitch them more because there's a need for it. You see what I'm saying? So that's the best thing about is keeping your ear in tune to what demands there are.

Michael Walker:
Oh, what's up guys? Quick intermission from the podcasts, I can tell you about an awesome free gift that I have for you. I wanted to share something that's not normally available to the public, they are normally reserved for our $5,000 clients that we work professionally. This is a presentation called Six Steps to Explode Your Fanbase, Make a Profit With Your Music Online. And specifically, we're going to walk through how to build a paid traffic and automated funnel that's going to light to grow your fan base online in a systems designed to get you to your first $5,000 a month with your music.

Michael Walker:
We've invested over $130,000 in the past year to test out different traffic sources and different offers really to say what's working best right now for musicians. And so I think it's going to be hugely valuable for you. And so if that's something you're interested in, in the description, there should be a little link that you click on to go get that. And the other thing I want to mention is if you want to do us a huge favor, one thing that really makes a big difference early on when you're creating new podcasts is, if people click Subscribe, then it basically lets the algorithm know that this is something that's new and noteworthy and that people actually want to hear.

Michael Walker:
And so that'll help us reach a lot more people. So if you're getting value from this and you get value from the free trainings, then if you want to do us a favor, I'd really appreciate if you click on the Subscribe button. All right, let's get back to the podcast. Oh yeah, that's so good. And that's entrepreneurship 101, feeling out where's the biggest needs, where's the biggest demand, where can I provide value? And it sounds that's what you're recommending for musicians as well as by keeping their ears tuned, so what's providing the most value for people?

K Sparks:
Sometimes musicians get married to a certain type of thing. So it's like, they might necessarily love to do a certain type of style, but our goal is always to help musicians grow. We want you to be the best that you can be. It's like a coach. I look at ourselves like coaches, and they're the players. We want you to be the best player you can be. You might have a mean crossover, but we want to make you Allen Iverson with that crossover. We want you to take it to the next level. So that's always the goal, just making them just more aware of the trends and how they can perfect those trends and just take it across the finish line and get out of the comfort zone.

K Sparks:
For me personally, I can be honest, when I first started making music, I love jazz hip hop, I loved the Tribe Called Quest, The Roots, Nas's tracks, I loved it, but I was able to expand my horizons musically to realize, all right, it's great that you love to make this type of music, but theater is a huge world out there like other types of music. And if you're able to make that music well, then you're increasing your chances of getting even more placements.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that's really smart. The analogy that comes to mind, and I share this analogy in a few different ways, but when we're talking about trends and we're talking about, what's currently on billboard and what's currently being placed on shows that it's like we're surfers and there's these waves that are coming and going. And it seems where a lot of people get stuck is that they're trying to swim to catch up with an old rave that's already past rather than sitting there and looking at behind saying, okay, what's approaching right now? And feeling that and swimming along with it.

Michael Walker:
And when you do it the right way, you can shoot for it and get this huge momentum because you catch that wave. And I think it's important to you that when you catch the wave, it's not necessarily... I think one concern that artists have sometimes is about this idea of selling out or just losing their artistic integrity because they're just chasing the trends. And in some ways, I think that that's probably possible if you go over in the deep end where it's just completely you promote a product that you absolutely, like it's about murdering puppies like, "Wait, no."

Michael Walker:
But I think that there's a way to marry who you are, like you're saying, expand your horizons and to catch those waves, it's like your surfboard, it's who you are. And if you bring that and you marry it together with the existing waves, you can create something that's unique, it's unique, but it also it's along with that wave, and it seems that's one of the best ways to not lose your integrity, but also to really, to be able to get the most growth from it.

K Sparks:
Oh, definitely. I always say, stay true to yourself, just because you might be doing a current sound, it doesn't mean that you have to lose your artistic integrity. If you make a certain type of music, it's okay to stay true to yourself. The content can still be just as great, it's just the production value would be bigger and it would be something that can capture the masses. So to your point, that's so true, you don't necessarily lose yourself, you always stay true to who you are as a musician because that's key. And that translates through the music as well, because people will feel it.

K Sparks:
Many times, I've heard musicians that I love their music and then I hear something, I'm like, "Oh no, that's not him." Or, "That's not her." Because they didn't make it their own, it's like someone who you see two people wearing the same outfit, but someone wears it better. It's because they say that the style is sold separately. The clothes don't make him, it's the style. So the same thing with the actual record itself, it's what you bring to it, it's just style, it's your persona, it's how the intonation, the connotation, how you can make people feel what you're saying.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. I want to recap here a bit, earlier on, you were sharing about if someone was taking the path of shopping around and looking for a publishing company that they resonate with or a music licensing company. And you mentioned that if you had 20 songs, one way you could do it is split into four different groups of five songs each and reach out to different ones and see which one resonates most. Is that how you would recommend doing it, especially if it's non-exclusive deals, would you still recommend splitting it up into different batches with those different companies? Or would it make sense as well, could be overlap them or you give them to everyone, or what would your recommendation be when it comes to finding the right music licensing company?

K Sparks:
Right. I would say that depends on the structure of each agreement. And I'll give you the perfect example. We had an artist who they signed because our deal is non-exclusive, they sign with us and they also sign with another company, which is fine, but the problem was in the fine print with the other company, they had a content ID clause that was in perpetuity. So that perpetuity content ID clause meant that even though the artist was able to have music in multiple libraries, those songs still had to remain in that company's content ID forever. And the artist was like, "Hey Kyle, I signed the agreement, but don't worry, it's not exclusive."

K Sparks:
And yet, they didn't understand what the term perpetuity meant. And for anyone listening who doesn't know what perpetuity means, that means forever. So essentially, even though they presented a non-exclusive agreement, it became null and void because you still have this artist forever tied down in a content ID. So what was happening was a lot of those songs that they placed in multiple libraries, those libraries were now contacting this artist to say, "Hey, we're giving you placements taco bell or this or that, but we're getting these content ID flags, what's going on?"

K Sparks:
And this artist now forever has to constantly go back to this company and say, "Hey, can you please clear the content ID?" And that sucks. So I would say that the devil is in the details, always make sure you read the fine print because what might appear to be non-exclusive, sometimes isn't always the case. So if you do get true to form non-exclusive agreements, that can really work because it allows you to get your music in multiple libraries free and clear.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. When you talk about content ID, that's basically the mechanism that sometimes you'll see on YouTube, where it's like if you play a sample of another song, you might say like, "Hey, this... " It basically keeps track of where that song is played. And so it sounds like what you're saying is that you have to be careful sometimes with "non-exclusive agreements" that if there's some clause about the content ID in perpetuity, then what's going to happen is if another company, even if it is not exclusive, if another company gets a placement, it's going to cost some hang-ups in terms of the regulation, it's going to confuse people and it's going to be an extra hassle to actually have to get the clearance for every single time that song is placed.

K Sparks:
Definitely, definitely. And I like said, at the end of the day, if you're the type of artists where you have a lot of music and you don't mind a handful of your songs being in an agreement like that because that you'll get returns, so be it. But like I always say, just make sure that you're aware of where those songs are going. So if you're going to have an agreement like that, and those songs should be specifically for that agreement. You shouldn't have those songs dipping in other catalogs because you don't want to develop a bad reputation as a musician, you're signing these agreements, but you got the same music everywhere, it's getting flagged. Your reputation is everything, reputation is gold, so you want to maintain that value.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. The one question that I have for you is, you're having a lot of experience right now and seeing what is getting synced and what's having the most success in this world, I know that this is something that changes like surfing, there's new waves that are coming, new waves that go, but right now, I'd be curious in hearing, because there's probably also some underlying patterns, it's like the same, waves that still have the same, fundamentally, there's still water and they're still coming up and they're the same shape. What are the common patterns that you see when it comes to music licensing that tend to what, maybe it's emotions or vibe or the concept of a song, what is it that you see getting the most success with sync placements?

K Sparks:
Right now I would say, songs that are cinematic, and when I say cinematic, I mean in terms of big records where you have big drops, big buildups. We've been getting a lot of hip hop requests lately for just anthemic. So when I say anthemic for people listening who doesn't really know what that means, it's like it can be chanting. If you look at a Nike commercial and it's like someone is chanting on a champion, very driven, just hard hitting that's in your face. And those anthemic records, they tend to be so impactful because they can do a lot in a shorter duration of time.

K Sparks:
So when you look at a commercial, you're not looking at a conventional song that could last anywhere from two and a half to three minutes, it's in and out. So those big anthemic chanting records are what we get a lot of requests for right now. So that's pretty much like you would say the wave.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. That's so fascinating too, just to reflect and look at, because that wave really reflects a lot about just who we are and the kinds of things that we resonate with and what's important to us. And so it is interesting to see, like, okay, so anthemic, about rising to the top, overcoming challenges, big buildup and drops. And there's some of the things that it brings into my mind are like, imagine dragons, how they have some of the chance to big, really big drums, it has some hip hop elements to it. So that's really interesting. All right. Well, hey man, this has been awesome, this has been super valuable and also inspiring.

Michael Walker:
I think that just through our conversation one thing that really sticks out is just the mindset that you have, and I think that's probably the most fundamental reason that you've been able to achieve the success that you have. So I really appreciate you doing what you do and being here to share your knowledge with other musicians who are starting out. For anyone who's watching this right now who is really interested in taking the next step here and learning more about music licensing, or maybe getting in touch and hearing more about what you guys offer at Rhythm Couture, what's the best place for them to reach out?

K Sparks:
Oh, definitely. Well, they can go to our site, Rhythmcouture.com, and we're just very big on helping musicians, so we actually recently we started e-courses as well. So we have the music licensing blueprint, which has helped thousands of musicians, and we also even offer some free steps to help musicians out as well, and that's called Getting In Sync With The Industry. So that's a free download, really just to help musicians just get the information that they need, because it's all about paying it forward at the end of the day, we want to see as many musicians win as possible. That's the goal.

Michael Walker:
You nailed it with that title there, Getting In Sync. Being a new dad, my dad pun game has really risen to a new level, so I can appreciate a good wordplay when I see one. Awesome. I think that'd be super valuable for anyone to take all the ideas that we talked about today and break it down into a PDF form or into a training where it's step-by-step, I think it would be super valuable. We'll make sure to include links so that people can go check those out. I think I remember that you said that you have a couple of free trainings, what does the free training look like? And we'll make sure to put a link to it in the show notes.

K Sparks:
Yeah, definitely. So that Getting In Sync With The Industry, that breaks down pretty much the key components when trying to get things licensed. So like I said, it's totally free. And if anyone wants to take it further, like I said, we have the music licensing blueprint, which is definitely extensive, and it really breaks everything down even to further detail. So we just look forward to helping as many musicians as we can, man. That's our goal.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. That's awesome. And I think it's so smart too because through that process, you also attract, and you find out the right people who are going to be a good fit for your roster with what you're doing. So that's awesome. What we'll do is we'll put a link to that in the show notes. And Kyle, you're awesome. Thanks again for taking the time to be here today.

K Sparks:
Definitely. I appreciate you, Michael. Thanks for having me.

Michael Walker:
Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes, to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast, then there's few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit Subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends on your social media, tag us, that really helps us out. And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take the music career to the next level. It's time to be a modern musicians now, and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.