Kris Bradley: There's a lot of these really instinctual things like presets, for example, that are designed by world-class mixing engineers. It's okay to lean on those and use those as our tools and not have to be a mixing engineer in order to make a great sounding track.

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry, with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry, and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker: All right. So I'm really excited to be here talking today with Kris Bradley. She's the founder of Produce Like a Boss, where she teaches your non-techie singer, songwriter, artist, how to produce high quality songs at a home studio in a way that's not super technical and jargon filled, and it's just easy and simple to understand. She's a musician herself. She's been really successful, especially in like the sync world. She has gotten placements for Sony, Warner Chappell, Fox, USA Network. And so today I thought it would be fun to especially for anyone that recently we've kind of gone through this pandemic and everyone's at home. So what more important time to kind of learn how to dial in your own recording so you can do something productive for your music career during the time off. So Kris, thanks so much for taking the time to be here today.

Kris Bradley: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Michael Walker: Cool. So I'd love to start off by just hearing a little bit of your story and kind of how you got started along the route of Produce Like a Boss.

Kris Bradley: Cool. So a little bit about me. I started off as a singer, songwriter and I was producing my own demos and really trying to pitch my songs to get caught by other artists trying to get my stuff into film and TV and sync. And I just kind of realized after I was spending like anywhere from $500 a pop up to like in the thousands that I was like, wow, I can't really sustain this. So I guess you could say that I got my start in learning how to produce out of sheer necessity because I was like, oh man, like I have to take this into my own hands.

Kris Bradley: So as a singer, songwriter, I think that I found it very difficult to like, I didn't understand a lot of the language and the jargon and I was just so ... like everyone that would try to explain it to me, it was very technical in the language they used. So I found myself always saying like, man, like I wish I had this, like a step by step kind of like just simplified version, and anyways long story short over the years, just through trial and error and coaching. And I finally kind of got my productions to that level. And then I've come up with a system that I'm able to share with other singer songwriters to help their process be a little more smooth than mine was.

Michael Walker: Amazing. Yeah. It seemed like learning how to produce yourself in like a home studio, a home studio is, it's pretty amazing how high quality of recordings you can literally get like professional recordings in a home studio. And even if you do work with a producer in a different studio, it probably is a really valuable skill to have at least the basics and to understand how to record and the vision of what you want it to sound when you're working with like a Grammy award winning producer or something like that.

Kris Bradley: Absolutely. I think that being able to just share in the language that goes on, its so important and being able to voice your opinion, because what happens is, and this is kind of how I started teaching it, is that I'd be working with artists that I was producing and they'd be like, "You know, it's like this thing that does this." And then I would associate that with some kind of vocab and I go, "Oh, well you mean it's this." And then I'd explain it, and they go, "Yeah." But if they had just heard that word by itself, they're like, I didn't even know what that was called. So just being able to help the communication in the studio by knowing how to identify certain keywords is pretty cool.

Michael Walker: That's awesome. And yeah, especially like ... I bet for a lot of people maybe the TAC or you're not someone that, like I'm kind of a geek. I actually, I like spreadsheets and I like math and I like this stuff, but I know a lot of people like normal people are like math sucks and technical, super tech heavy things can be really overwhelming. And as an artist, I'm sure that most of us, we just want to be able to express our music and we want it to sound good and we want it to come out organically and we don't want to have to hit all these roadblocks, there's not knowing how to get it out. So what I like about what you're talking about is how you really kind of catered towards the singer songwriter and the artist. And that means that you're able to speak to them in a language that they understand.

Kris Bradley: Absolutely. I think that we kind of are coming into times now where you don't need to know as much as you needed to know say five or 10 years ago. That there's a lot of these like really instinctual things like presets for example, that are designed by world-class mixing engineers. It's okay to lean on those and use those as our tools and not have to be a mixing engineer in order to make a great sounding track, right? So that's part of, some of the stuff that I teach is being able to work with the tools that have been given to us. Like thank God for modern technology, is just making it so much easier for creators to create, you know what I mean? And to be able to take their music like into their own hands.

Michael Walker: When the artist first come to you and they're kind of interested in starting to produce themselves and maybe they've been working on some of their songs. They have like really rough voice memos or something, what are some of the biggest challenges that you see them struggling with at first?

Kris Bradley: When they come to me to produce them?

Michael Walker: When they come to you and they're considering working with you, or they're considering like they're looking at Produce Like a Boss and yeah, what are some of the biggest things that they're struggling with at that point?

Kris Bradley: Yeah, for sure. So I think that a lot of it is the, it's the blank page theory. They don't know where to start because they have no guidance whatsoever. And I just know so many times when I pull open a session and I would feel the same feeling. And once again, I was thinking like, gosh, I wish that there was some kind of like little checklist of what can I do? So that's what I started creating was these systems where I'm actually building templates out for you. So before you even start creating, you're essentially assembling like a really kick ass tool belt. So it's like yeah, if you went to build a house and no one left you any tools, you'd be like, "Oh gosh, where do I even start?" But if you showed up and there was a great little tool shade there with all these tools, it's like, you use this for this and this for this, you'd be like, yes, let's do this.

Kris Bradley: So that's kind of what I do with that artist who's at that stage. Most of it is overwhelm, and I think the problem that most artists face is when they think about getting into the door, they think they need to know everything that door does, right? And it's like, oh my gosh, do you know how much like logic can do in pro tools? I mean, from like video editing and things that they might not need to know. So rather than taking the approach of, I need to learn everything this thing does, which is so counterproductive anyways because if you don't implement, it's not going to stick. So why would you take a one-on-one on how to learn what all these things do when you could learn how to simply just get your song out, right? And that's what I teach. It's like, it's all the stuff you need and none of the stuff that you don't.

Michael Walker: Awesome. And it's interesting because what you're saying, it really rings true just across different domains too. But specifically like across this, it's kind of that blank page syndrome. So it's like starting out feeling overwhelmed because yeah, it's like building a house, but not having a blueprint or having tools to do it. Or setting out on a destination but you don't have a map, you don't know really how to get there. So it's just kind of, there's probably a lot of different things and different ... there're like with YouTube, there's probably a million different types of YouTube videos and they're not really sure where to start

Kris Bradley: Is I call that the YouTube rabbit hole and it's great.

Michael Walker: The YouTube rabbit hole.

Kris Bradley: Well, there's so much valuable information, but it's like, the overwhelm is like, there's so much. We're not starving of information; you know what I mean? Like it's right there, but it's the implementation and actually having it in a way where it all works together. It's like one thing to find a video, but what about like a series of like videos put together to support each other through a step by step process? That's how my brain works anyways.

Michael Walker: 100%. Yeah. A lot of people who are like smarter than I am, that I pay a lot of money to teach me stuff, basically tell me that information, it used to be like when the internet first came out, which was like, not that long ago and like how crazy were things when the internet came out, like that changed everything. But when it first came out, the name of the game was the amount of information. And it was like, if you had more information, all of a sudden that was the best, if you just had the most information. But now that's actually not really what we need. All of us have access to so much information online that it's not really about that anymore. It's more about being able to put it into a sequence, being able to stay focused and to implement just like you're saying, so that definitely rings true.

Michael Walker: So it sounds like you've really through a lot of experience and through a lot of coaching, you've developed kind of a framework to structure it so that it is more simple for people to figure out what's important so they don't have to like learn the one-o-one course and learn a million things that they don't need to know that don't even stick because they're not implementing because it's not necessary as opposed to like more directly getting their song sounding more professional and learning at the same time. Could you share some of the biggest stature, the biggest kind of like an overview of that process that you recommend for people?

Kris Bradley: Sure. I mean, a lot of it, like you said is actually getting a blueprint together, which in the world of production, we just call that pre-production, right? Think about when you're getting a team into the studio to make a record, you don't just go in with no plan, there's weeks oftentimes of rehearsals and a game plan that you get together with your producer. Well, you become your own producer. So you need your own form of pre-production, which is just, it's just a game plan. So part of what I do is we pull the work tape into the session and have a listen. We're looking at the lyrics and we're going, okay, let's assemble the right tool belt that coincides with this lyric and this melody, right?

Kris Bradley: What style are we going for? What is the genre? What is the mood? What is the speed? And actually start planning out all these little steps before we even jump in, because here's another thing. You get kid in a candy store syndrome too. You get in there and you have all these cool sounds to play around with. And it's like, oh wait, what was I doing? Where am I going? That's not part of my framework. My framework is let's build a little foundation so we know what we're building our house on top of, let's start with the foundation. So it starts with the tool belt.

Kris Bradley: We do a little bit of reverse engineering where we're kind of studying like what somebody who's already written a pretty well-structured pop song, how that works. And reverse engineering that process and saying, okay, well, if they did a four bar intro and an eight bar burst verse, maybe I could do the same. And they did a 12 bar course, but maybe I'll do an eight bar course. So being able to borrow, but not everything, being able to borrow and tweak from those that have succeeded before you. Tony Robbins says, "If you want to be successful, follow in the footsteps of those who are doing what you want to do." So I highly recommend reverse engineering tracks that are already dialed in.

Michael Walker: Yeah. That's huge. So it sounds like the first couple of things that you started with are one, like pre-production is really important. And it's something that, when you're doing it with another producer, then they've kind of established this, like they'll probably kind of help you do production. But when you're doing it yourself, it's really important not to forget that is kind of sitting down, listening to the song and maybe just having like what? Like an Evernote or having like a notes pulled up that you're just kind of taking notes about the lyrics and the melody and about potential maybe instrumentation and like how you want to kind of put it together. So it starts with that overview process of just like listening to the song and making some notes on it.

Michael Walker: And then one of the next steps is really finding some references. So being able to reverse engineer what successful people who have invested tens of thousands of hours into their craft and are like geniuses essentially, like really, really smart people. Being able to listen to what they're doing so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. That's something I kind of want to dig a little bit deeper into that too, because I feel like it's so valuable and it's so important. And I know for me personally, like pretty much anything like successful that I've done has been following the footprints of my mentors or like people that have shown the way in a certain sense.

Michael Walker: Or like, there's things that I've had to kind of, I failed and I've kind of figured out. In different ways I've taken their lessons and kind of apply them in my own situation. But it's been such a huge part has been finding people who've done what I want to do and then learning how they did it and then doing it in my own way. But I think one thing that kind of holds people back sometimes from doing it, is wanting ... because there is kind of a balance, right? There's a balance of like, you can't just like straight up copy them because then you lose your own voice, your own soul. So how do you recommend that people kind of balance that? How do they ... is that just like a mindset block or is there a specific way that you'd kind of recommend them balancing that so that they retain their own voice, but they're able to kind of grow as an artist by referencing models?

Kris Bradley: Absolutely. I am so glad that you asked that because that is such a common thing. It's like people, we all want so badly to just be so original, right? Have you read the book, like what is it? Steal Like an Artist, I'm looking for it, it's on my coffee table. So many people don't realize that we are just a combination of everything that we've ever heard or listened to. We're already doing it, we're already doing it, right? So it's like, how do we do it intentionally and maintain our own voice? And I think part of that is just doing the active listening. And then when you go in, like I said, it's like, oh, they did, hi-hats there. I think I'm going to do a shaker there instead and switching it out, right? And then another thing I like to do is sometimes I'll use more than one reference track. So I'm definitely never leaning towards one way too hard.

Kris Bradley: And the other thing I wanted to say about that, and this is my favorite part is like, once you take the reference chart, let's say you've got two or three, and then you've got your own original voice, it's still going through your filter, right? So without even trying, you are adding your original voice to it. So I tell people to that have been like, let's say they've been listening to classic rock for a long time and they're trying to kind of get modern music like in their pallet so they can write a little more fresh and modern. They're like, I'm afraid I'm going to lose my voice. I'm like, trust me, it's there, listen to the new stuff, study the new stuff for the workflow aspects of it, not to copy it and be like it because just by you being you, even if you tried to copy it and be like it, you're not going to sound like it.

Kris Bradley: Take that and couple it with two or three different ones. You're really not going to sound like it because by the time we get the three headed baby that came from those three bands and then your original voice, that's something new and original, right? Its several ingredients that make up a whole new thing. So I have to say for me, it was something that held me back for a long time, having that belief. It's a limiting belief.

Michael Walker: That's so good. So a couple things like unpacking what we just said there. So first of all, just kind of realizing that you'd like the book, if anyone is listening to this right now, and you want us to dive even deeper, the book, Steal Like an Artist is a great read around this idea. But like really, we all crave to feel ... we all want to be special. We all want to be original. We want to have our own authentic voice. And the truth is that, all of us are a reflection of our influences. We're naturally going to, or the music that comes out is naturally going to be a reflection of our influences. And so it's not original completely anyways, like it's going to have your own unique twist, but it's okay to lean into using influences and using models of people that have invested tens of thousands of hours and kind of seeing how they do it, so you can create your own way.

Michael Walker: Another idea that you brought up, that was really smart was, how you can have multiple different references. And that's actually a really good thing to do so that you don't lean too much on one. So if you kind of think about, what if this band, this band and this band had a baby, or what if this song, this song and this song had a baby, then it's something new. And it can be a really ... I've heard this before that they call it like the viral formula, which is basically if you look at songs or videos or things that go viral, the traits behind it are usually that there's an aspect of it that's familiar. So there's an aspect of it that we recognize, but then there's another aspect of it where they kind of flip it on its head, so there's like a unique twist to it.

Michael Walker: So it's both like, there's a part that's like familiar, but it's also unique kind of done in an interesting way. And I guess the reason that happens is because the part of our brain, it was kind of like a sled going down a hill where there's like grooves, right? And the way our brains, like the neurons connect to each other there's like grooves. And so if it's familiar, it links into our existing networks. It links into the existing ... if we've heard like a certain kind of a song for example. But then when it's new, it's kind of like, it makes it interesting. It makes it novel. So it kind of releases some dopamine where it's like, oh like, this is interesting. It's like, I recognize this, but it's kind of done in this unique style.

Michael Walker: And so I just wanted to echo what you just said with like yeah, having a few different references and that can be a really cool way to create like something new and original that was born out of different things. There's not really a way for you to not put your voice onto something, because just because you're being you and like in doing it, like you can't not be you. Have you ever tried to not be you? It doesn't work out very well. You don't feel very good when you're not being you. But it's kind of the same thing, like it's funny, like sometimes it's like trying to be yourself. You don't have to try to be yourself, you just are yourself.

Michael Walker: But it sounds like what you're saying is that, especially when it comes to artists who maybe they're familiar with like an old, a hard rock or like something that's kind of like the 70s or the 80s. And they have this mindset block around making something modern. And like, I don't want to sell out, or I don't want to lose my voice. And what you're saying is that, no, you can't lose your voice. Like if you just bring who you are and you bring your influences to this modern style, then what's going to happen is you're going to create something that's both that can be commercially marketable, but also has your voice and can be really fun and it can represent you as an artist.

Kris Bradley: Absolutely. And I just want to jump on that really quick because the whole, like I don't want to sell out thing. Think about it like this. I will say I learned this the hard way because I did whatever I wanted. I did what I wanted to do and then I just wanted to complain that my music wasn't making me any money. So I want to just give an example of how this could be twisted. So imagine like you cook a dish that you love and it tastes really good to you, but like everyone who's eating it, it's kind of like, they're not really loving what the ingredients that are in that dish. Are you going to be mad when you turn around and open up a restaurant and go to sell that dish and nobody shows up? You know what I mean? You're here to provide a service, right? You're an entrepreneur. So you're actually, you're giving. When you give people that familiarity, is that how you say that word familiarity?

Michael Walker: I think that's a word.

Kris Bradley: You're awakening that within them. And they don't maybe know why, but they know that it makes them feel good and nostalgic like you're saying, right? And they feel a connection with you. And once you have that trust with them, they already like you and know you, and now you can present some new stuff, but I call it one foot in the box and one foot out of the box. The other side of that, and I could go on a complete rabbit hole, but it's like, if you want to make money as a musician, what you're saying is you want to start a business. And what you're saying is you're an entrepreneur.

Kris Bradley: And in order for you to be successful, you have to serve and you have to put your client first. So if the market, if we're talking about market research, not to get too nerdy, but the market, it will tell you what is working. And that's why I really love using reference tracks, because that's what I'm going for. Like I want to be successful. I don't want to fight against it, I want the path of least resistance. I don't want to fight against the tide, so that's all I wanted to say about that.

Michael Walker: Yeah. I think that's really, really important. Being able to figure out how to ... like, there's a universal energy. It's like a river and it's flowing in a certain direction. And when you fight against the river and what's happening, it's a struggle and it's pain. And there are ways to get in the flow, right? You get on the flow and you can be present. You can be current with what's happening and what's resonating, but doing that in a way that's also authentic to you because no one else has the same voice that you have. So it's yeah, I feel like what you're saying is about kind of aligning who you are with what's also the flow, what's providing a service to people. What's providing a service, that's the flow, right? Like that's the best entrepreneurship, that's what drives progress forward is finding a need, as like a business is about finding needs.

Michael Walker: But for you as a musician, as a business, your need is about connecting with people and about providing value and entertainment. And so yeah, it's a two way street and you need to figure out how can you provide the best possible service for them? How can you connect with them? And it's got to have both components. You got to be both connected to them, but it's also got to be your voice. And that's being authentic is going to be what allows you to connect with them and to stand out from everyone else. So having those two pieces are really important and it's okay to have one foot in, one foot out.

Kris Bradley: One foot in the box, one foot out the box, yeah.

Michael Walker: Boom.

Kris Bradley: It's like whenever you look at a brief or hear about like what a company is looking for, like a pub company or a record label, it's always this, they want something that doesn't sound like everybody else, but that sounds like everybody else. It's like, I'm not going to be such a rebel that I break all the rules and defy what the industry is clearly telling me is working, but I'm not going to be a carbon copy of it either. I'm going to maintain me and dip my toe in that pool, and say, but here's that little familiarity that you all wanted in order to make this work.

Kris Bradley: I think a good example of this is John Mayer. He is such an avid like guitar minded, guitar player. He's like Jimi Hendrix, that's his vibe, is like, he wants to do this bluesy soulful classic thing. And the label was like yeah, no, we're not going to push that. There's not a big enough market for that. And I don't remember where I read this, but I read somewhere that he kind of fought against like your body as a wonderland because he didn't feel that's who he was. But if you think about that song, how digestible it is and how many people it can reach on a larger scale than if he had just honed in on I'm the rock, blues god, that only hits like a niche that was about that big.

Kris Bradley: And as a label, as a business, they went, okay, we can't invest in that. We don't see maybe the same success as this. And then look, after he put that song out, doesn't John Mayer do whatever the hell he wants now? He's done everything, like really he's doing the blues trio. He has his pop music has even progressed, but he wouldn't be able to have that freedom if he didn't play a little bit of ball and put his toe in the box, right?

Michael Walker: That's awesome. You know what just came into my head, like as an analogy, when you're talking about that is, it's almost like there's like a pool. This is where like, I love analogies. So sometimes I go overboard, but there's like this like pool of water. And it's kind of like, you're building your own channel, right? And that's like your uniqueness and that's like your foot out. But then like, you have to kind of use a chisel and kind of like chip at the original one and create a connection, like create a link to it. So it's kind of like you hit it and then it's like, whoosh, like the water swims out, and that's a way that you have one foot in and one foot out. So it's both familiar, it's connected, it's irrelevant, but it's also authentic to who you are and it's your own thing.

Kris Bradley: Love it. Yeah. That's great.

Michael Walker: Beautiful. All right. Well, this is great. I think this is a good time. We went down a little bit of a rabbit hole, but I feel like it was time well spent. Cool. So kind of zooming back out again a little bit in terms of the process of production. First step is kind of pre-production. So getting an outline, getting the map kind of ready for it. Second step might be looking at a few different references and getting some things pulled up. What else, in terms of like an overview, would you recommend for people in terms of the main steps?

Kris Bradley: Yeah. So it would go pre-production, references, and then we'd probably dive into sound selection a little bit, which I would say is kind of a part of that pre-production, just loading up the instruments that we're going to play with. One of the things that I provide is actually it's a Produce Like a Boss roadmap, right? So it's got like ... it's already mapped out for you or ready for you to fill it out. So it says arrangement, how many bars is that, what's happening in the verse, what's happening in the pre, what's happening in the chorus.

Kris Bradley: And just simply by writing this out, what you can do on the notepad, in logic, by the way and it's super helpful because it's like right there in your session. But I also provide a PDF so that they can just get really clear about it. And I actually did a video on this recently about how to go through and just like remove and like add things. And it was so cool to see like where it went while not, because you're not glued to it. It's just a roadmap. It's just a roadmap and you can replace and make your decisions like as you go, you know what I mean?

Michael Walker: That's awesome. So this is great too. It's just something that I think I overlook sometimes when I'm like producing my own demos is that step where you load up the DAW, like logic and you start loading up the instruments. Yeah. I think for me, a lot of times I'll start and I'll just kind of load one up at a time and it's kind of like disorganized and then I have to kind of search for the sounds then it's like, it doesn't really set the stage for the creativity to come out as easily as it could if I did what you're talking about right now, which sounds like creating that foundation, creating that map of what you think you're going to use, kind of getting all the sounds ready to go, and then you can play around with it more.

Michael Walker: And yeah, if you have to go on a quick detour or you have some inspiration, then that's cool. The same way as like, if you're on a trip and you're using a map, then it's like you can go off track a little bit and explore and have fun, but it really helps to kind of have that foundation in place and to not have to dig through all your different stuff after you have the idea and just kind of have everything ready for it.

Kris Bradley: Right. Do you remember when you first started working in the DAW, ever like before you had gotten your organizational skills and workflow down, like trying to be in the middle of the session and just looking back at everything looks like hieroglyphics and you're like, where am I right now? Did you ever have that happen to you in the beginning?

Michael Walker: Oh yeah.

Kris Bradley: That would happen to me. I'd get overwhelmed and I didn't understand what the difference between audio and [media 00:26:31] and like how a wave form really work. I just hadn't got there yet. So it's like all that needed to happen for me to get lost sometimes was simply looking away and coming back at me like, and like wait, where was I? And so a lot of my process is eliminating all of that. So I'm a big fan of making the right and left brain work together like as partners rather than battling each other.

Kris Bradley: And I think that the muse is fun and playful, and I think if you give her kind of some parameters to play within, it's going to be a lot better than if you're just like, have at it? Because she'll get messy, she'll get way out of the lines. And it's like, okay, let me actually give you lines. And then you do your beautiful job coloring them in as opposed to giving the music blank page because she doesn't always have ... that's not the left brain. That's not the brain that has studied the references and that has the math down and maybe the formula. So by setting that up, your kind of saying, all right, have at it muse, you crazy wild thing you, but these are my rules and this is what I say I want to accomplish.

Kris Bradley: And if you can make them work together, oh my gosh, it's beautiful. It's one of my favorite things to do is like, just talking about balancing the left and right brain, because I think so many of us are either one or the other. And so many musicians tend to be more right brained and more creative and not wanting to be structured and have systems and be organized. But those are the types of things that are going to take their careers to the next level especially if they're independent. This applies to music production, but it applies to everything.

Michael Walker: Oh, what's up guys. So quick intermission from the podcasts so I can tell you about an awesome free gift that I have for you. I wanted to share something that's not normally available to the public. They normally reserve for our $5,000 clients that we work with personally. This is a presentation called six steps to explode your fan base and make a profit with your music online. And specifically, we're going to walk through how to build a paid traffic, an automated funnel, that's going to allow you to grow your fan base online in a system's designed to get you to your first $5,000 a month with your music.

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Michael Walker: And the other thing I wanted to mention is, if you want to do us a huge favor, one thing that really makes a big difference early on when you're creating new podcasts is if people click subscribe, then it basically lets the algorithm know that this is something that's new and noteworthy and that people actually want to hear. And so that'll help us reach a lot more people. So if you're getting value from this and you get value from the free trainings, then if you want to do us a favor, I'd really appreciate you clicking the subscribe button. All right, let's get back to the podcast.

Michael Walker: So really setting this up is sort of, it's creating like a canvas. Before, if you're going to paint something, if you're like, I have some like paint brushes and like colors in front of you, but you don't really have anything to paint it on or you don't really have any constraints at all, then you can get really messy and it can be disorganized and you don't really have a purpose or like it's just hard to let the muse do its thing. But if you kind of have that foundation in place and you have kind of the outline structured out, then that allows you to actually, in some ways counter-intuitively be more creative because you can just let yourself out on the page and just kind of let it come out. And you know that because it's within that structure, that it's going to be good.

Kris Bradley: I love that you said that. The way you worded that is so awesome. It actually, it sounds counterintuitive, but it allows you to be more creative because if you're having to deal with, gosh, I don't know where I am. Oh, that sucks. I don't know where I'm going. That's all getting in the way of your creativity. So you're not setting up these parameters to like be like a jail man. You must create it. You're actually doing it to facilitate a wonderful creative place for the muse to play in. So I love that you just said that, it actually helps more.

Michael Walker: Awesome. All right. So pre-production, finding the references, getting models and then kind of getting everything set up, getting it in place, setting the stage so that you have the instruments, you can allow the creativity to come out. Where do they go from there?

Kris Bradley: What I'd like to do in the free training is I like to set all this up at first and I know that there's some people going, but when are we going to make the music? When are we going to make the music, right? And I love that because my favorite part is when I come in and like towards the end of the series and I'm like, all right, let's do this. And I jump in there and it's like, I get complimented all the time on my speed. And the speed, like how quickly I can put a track together. I can be in a track with a room and build a track on the spot while somebody is writing, like just as fast and it comes from systems and workflow just like this. Otherwise, I don't think that I would have this kind of speed.

Kris Bradley: So what I do is I actually go live and I say, okay, let's implement. Let's take all these tools. Let's say ... I even have them like fan out the arrangement. And I'm like, okay. And I start showing the power of even being able to fly or copy paste little sections across, not because it's going to stay that way, but like just having a visual like, oh, okay. It actually allows you to think like now I just fill in the blanks. It gives you more sense of accomplishment to put all these things in place. And then you can always go by, oh, you know what? I think I want to make that a bar longer. Oh, and I know that was the drum loop from verse one, but I'm going to add a different kick pattern here.

Kris Bradley: But as long as you're looking at verse one and you're stuck there, it like kind of puts that wall up. So what I'm doing is I'm bringing constant momentum and movement and achievements that can be celebrated along the way because you're like, "Wow, I just did that. I just did that," and like that just starts the flow. It's amazing.

Michael Walker: That's awesome, that's really interesting. So it sounds like one of your first steps when you're creating a new track is really like, is creating the arrangement and getting ... it's not the final versions of each of the instruments in there, but just kind of setting up the arrangement. So like in the appropriately, like in the chorus or in the second chorus, like the stacks start to line up. And even though you're probably going to go in there and you are going to change some of the stuff and how the drums compress, it really kind of is like a holistic approach to getting the whole thing in there.

Michael Walker: And so it kind of reminds me too, of like outlining any sort of body of work. It's so important to create an outline because it's kind of like we talked about with like the constraints and like having the frames, how it really allows you to let loose within that. So it sounds like your kind of fleshing out and you're creating the whole body of the song, like on a holistic level. And then your next step is to kind of go in and to tweak things and to try out like different parts and stuff within the song.

Kris Bradley: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's just like any body of work. An author would start with an outline and an architect would start out with a blueprint, it's the same thing. I don't just ... and here's the thing, let me just speak to that really quick is I'm not saying don't ever go in there and just have a free fall. I'm saying to have intention. So if you're sitting down to produce a song and that is your intention, you can make it a lot easier on yourself than wasting hours and hours. And then at the end, having nothing to show for it because you didn't separate your left and right brain.

Kris Bradley: So things that I like to do on ... sometimes I'll go, you know what? I'm going to put the left brain away, but that's because we're not creating a record today. We're not creating something for the market or for commercial release or anything. It's just for me, I'm just going to show up with my right brain today. And that's days where I will set aside time to literally just like pick out sounds that I like, and maybe create some samples of my own, maybe go through and build some kits of my own. But notice, I'm assembling tool belt, I'm assembling tool belt. I'm not using them yet, right?

Kris Bradley: So I go through and I do all this like fun ... Oh I'm sorry, reverse that, the left brain stuff. I'm going and I'm actually creating the systems. I'm creating the kits so that when my right brain comes and I come back to it later ... I totally messed up the delivery of that. It's totally fine. But when I come back later, I'd actually had those days where I was just using my left brain to actually put these systems in place, right?

Michael Walker: Cool. I really like how you differentiate the left brain from the right brain, because that is something that I think all of us we have, or most of us, 99.99% of us have a left brain and a right brain. And it sounds like one thing that you do really well is you're really intentional about which brain you're allowing to be present and come out, because where people can get into trouble or where it can be tricky sometimes is when both brains are trying to do something at the same time. And it's like, they don't tend to play nice together and they can kind of go against each other. It's like when you're writing a song and then if you're trying to edit the song and revise it at the exact same time as like you're creating it, then it's like, you can start to be like, wait, is that line really good? And you get hung up on the same line, like over and over again, and then you can't really create the rest of it. It's just weird.

Michael Walker: So it sounds like a big part of your processes is being intentional about having the left brain, having time to set up those structures and those organizations. And it sounds like a big value that you bring is having all those templates, having the structure kind of created for people and giving them the templates so that they can more easily allow themselves to tap into the right brain and just let it out.

Kris Bradley: Absolutely. And I want to circle back to what you just said there about like wasting time, spinning your wheels on trying to get the perfect take when you should be in creation mode. So it's all about intention. It's all about showing up and going, what am I trying to accomplish today? Because if you're trying to accomplish a record, then yeah, you better take that over and over and over until you get it right. But at that point, I'm assuming all the creative work is done. It's written, its arranged, it's produced, you're tracking final tracks.

Kris Bradley: But when you're creating a song, I kind of feel like you should just go with it. Like let's say you have like a guitar like in your head and, cool. You lay it down and it's not perfect. Well, did it execute? Will you remember it when you come back to it later? Okay. Then leave it, move on. Because if the flood is coming, it is not going to keep coming if you take that over 20 times in a row. Same thing with vocals. My first pass at anything in creation stages is always a scratch vocal and it doesn't have to be perfect because I just have to know, it's like the work tape, that when I come back to it, I'm going to know what my intention was. But like when you're moving forward quickly, I think it's better to move as fast as the flood is coming. And that's what's so powerful about learning how to produce your own music.

Kris Bradley: Like one of my students actually posted in my Facebook group the other day, she's like, "Oh my gosh, the coolest thing happened." And mind you, she only learned how to produce like maybe a few months ago. She goes, "I was driving home and I got the flood, the flood you were talking about, it came through, I heard all the parts." And she goes, "And then the best part is I came home and I tripped them all that." I was like, "Whoa, like imagine that." Like how many times I've had songs in my head where I'm like hearing it in my head, but I don't know how to get that sound out. Like that's what's so empowering about learning how to do this for yourself. Whether you release it yourself or you get that idea that you're like, this is how it was in my head. All right. Let me pair up with like a super pro producer and see if I can get it to the next level.

Michael Walker: I love that. That's so awesome. Okay. So now we've kind of gone through the stage where it's like they've fleshed out an outline and it's really kind of holistic and they've taken it from, it's not perfect, right? It's not totally refined yet. It's kind of just like creative, getting it all out, letting the flood out. And now they're looking at maybe a DAW that has a lot of the tracks flushed out. So they have ... it's not all perfect, and that's not the intention, right? Like they got the whole track out. What's like the next step from there?

Kris Bradley: Well, at that point in the process in general and I don't go into this in my free training, but I think the next steps after that are going back and going, okay, how can we make this tighter? How can we make this better? What do we need to replace playing, quality control and then getting into your mix for sure. But that's definitely, all the stuff that we've discussed so far, which is honestly, for me, that's the heavy lifting. I actually go through that in my free training.

Michael Walker: Beautiful. Yeah. So it sounds like the creativity that's where most people have the biggest block is just knowing how to get it out and how to take what they're hearing and actually make it sound really good and get it recorded in a easy, simple, facilitated way. So it's not like they're overwhelmed or running into all these different blocks. And then from there, then the left brain can kind of come in and it can kind of revise and be like, okay, so let's change the sounds here. Let's do some mixing and let's start making this more shiny and maybe add some different elements here. And then you probably have some sort of like mastering or something that is kind of like that final little touch to make it the same levels and just to make it sound really good.

Michael Walker: So yeah, that's awesome. I feel like we literally just in the course of like 45 minutes, I had like a crash course on how to produce a song. That's awesome. And I know that you go into a lot more detail and you kind of ... it was something like this, you're having a conversation right now between us and ... I mean, for me, like this has been super valuable. I love everything that you've been saying that's given me some really good ideas for my own production and how I can make it more simple. I'm kind of creating those systems in advance so that I can be more creative. But I do know that there's only so much we can share just by like talking to each other and it's showing each other's faces as opposed to like you going in and showing them the DAW and logic and like having the templates and stuff set up for them. So I know that you prepared, like you have like this free training that kind of goes into more details and has some of those goodies for them. So could you tell me more about that training?

Kris Bradley: Yeah. So I've put together a three part free series where I go through a lot of the stuff that we talked about and I give away some goodies that I've made and give away this PDF called the quick guide to producers lingo. So it really helps to demystify some of the stuff that like, I know it. I was that singer in the studio going, he just said this, what did that mean? What do you mean fly? What do you mean comp? What's an overdub? I got you. It's all handled in this PDF. And I got a couple more gifts that I've put together and yeah, it's going to be so much fun. I show you how to plan it out and then I show you how to execute in the end. We actually build the track and its super fun.

Michael Walker: Beautiful. So where's the best way for people to get that gift?

Kris Bradley: So my company is producelikeaboss.com and I know we're going to drop a link in the description below how to get into the free series.

Michael Walker: So Kris, you're awesome. Man, this is like we've only just met each other, but I feel like the conversation would have been ... you have a great flow, great energy. I listened to some of your songs on your website too, and it's like, it's really good.

Kris Bradley: Oh, thanks.

Michael Walker: Like the proof is in the pudding, I think. So thank you so much for taking the time to be here and to share some of these tips. And I would highly recommend going and checking out that workshop so that you can learn how to produce higher quality demos.

Kris Bradley: Thank you for having me. That was such a blast.

Michael Walker: Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes, to learn more about our guest today and if you want to support the podcast, then there's a few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends or on your social media, tag us, that really helps us out. And third, best of all, you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take their music career to the next level. The time to be a modern musician is now and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode.