ill Factor:
You just need to follow somebody who's just two or three steps ahead of you. And that's the reality. It doesn't necessarily need to be the person who just got the Grammy last year. It could just be as somebody like, hey, you know what? There's somebody on my block or there's somebody in my county, there's somebody in my city that owns a studio and I just want to ask them a couple of questions. Why don't I just buy them lunch?

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. 
If you have high quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. 
We're creating a revolution in today's music industry, and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker. So I'm super excited to be here today with Ivan Corraliza. He's freshly known as ill Factor. 
He's a Grammy nominated music producer, has been producing for over 15 years with some kind of smaller, tiny artists like Justin Timberlake, Cher, Cody Simpson, Cobra Starship, Jason Derulo, Timberland. So, just tiny little artists, not multi-platinum musicians or anything. So he has a really inspiring story. He went from making music in the bedroom to the Grammys. 

And so as artists nowadays such an important skill is learning how to produce yourself and getting high quality songs. Even if you're going to work with a producer, knowing how to make yourself sound great for your demos and learning that skillset, I think is super valuable. 
So I'm really looking forward to talking a little bit with you today ill Factor and hearing some of the biggest lessons that you've learned. And to start out, I mean, one, I want to say thank you for being here right now and sharing your story.

ill Factor:
I hear you good, sir. I'm excited, man. Thank you for bringing me on board, Michael.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, man, thanks for being here. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about your story in terms of how you went from the bedroom to the Grammys. Could you talk a little bit about your story?

ill Factor:
Well, I just woke up like this and that was it. I woke up, I put my pants one leg at a time and then I just walked right out with a Grammy. I wish-

Michael Walker:
There you go. I mean, that's how it goes most of the time, right? I mean, for like 99% of people is completely they're there from the start. No transformation, no challenge.

ill Factor:
Yeah, I think I had a bowl of honeycomb cereal and then I was like, the future became bright and clear. Well, just like anybody who's listening in on this, we all start off with a passion that we have for music. Growing up, my dad was a musician and he was in a SaaS event, grew up in a... He's Puerto Rican, my mom's Cuban. 
And I grew up here in Miami, Florida. And so that had an influence for me, just that left the door open for me to kind of walk through and say, hey, I want to explore music. I'm moved by music. It just stirs my soul in such a unique way. 
And I noticed one thing that in the group of friends that I would hanging out with, they weren't really... One or two were, but for the majority of my friends, they weren't really impacted or moved the same way I would was moved by music. So I knew that, okay, this is something cool and unique. 

So I think all of us that are already either listening or watching, we have that passion. We have that switch or that itch, so to speak, to kind of pursue music and grow deeper in the production or creating of music. So that led me to just starting to DJ out of high school. 

I started deejaying and buying little... I spent all my money mowing my neighbor's lawns and stuff like that. And working at the flea market here in Miami. Just saved up for a couple of drum machines. And I would start going to DJ at underground raves. So like here in Miami, there were a lot of these warehouse parties that would go on. 
This is like 98, 99, and a lot of drum and bass parties and things like that. So I would go to those things and I would just take my little drum machine and a turntable with some records. And that was my contribution to the scene and just kind of getting involved with that.

That led into diving deeper into the whole process of making electronic music and music production in general. And I think Fruity Loop, or it was Fruity Loop Beta just came out. They were just like, hey, here's the thing. And I was like, wow, music creation on the computer, mind blown. And so I started diving deep into that and got into just producing a lot more of the electronic music. 

And as I was going through college, I had a job at Sam Ash. It's a local music store here, and I was just doing a bunch of remixes for other people and just producing that. And that was really the key that turned the lock to open up the door of opportunity because I linked up with George Noriega who started doing a lot of work for Ricky Martin right after the Lavida Loca and some several artists in Latin American market.
And I rubbed shoulders with him. And he was like, hey, listen, I'm looking for somebody to do some of that electronic music programming on the stuff we're working on. We're working on Ricky's new album. And I was like, okay, great. I'd love to do that. 

And that was my first experience of working in a professional studio for an artist and behind the scenes type of thing. And I was like, wow, this is it. This is what I love doing. The interacting, the connecting and just pouring out what I naturally was gifted to do and contribute that to this project. 
Later on, I linked up with Jimmy Douglas, who is a legend within himself. He's mixed everything from foreigner, Aretha Franklin, The Rolling Stones, and then found Timberland, Missy and Genuine. And so was a big contributor to that sound. When I linked up with him, it was same thing. 

Timberland was looking for somebody to do a lot remixing of the stuff they were doing, and rather than trying to sell water to a whale. And I mean that in a sense of, rather than say, yo here are my hip hop beats to Timberland. I was like, look, I make electronic music, which is on the opposite end of the spectrum for you. 
So if you need remixes done, and he was like, yeah, we can use some remixers. So I started doing some remix stuff for Jimmy, doing additional production on his mixes. And then that led to us just establishing a great relationship and kind of just stayed within the crew. And that led into working with artists like Matsa Yahoo. 
Well Genuine was the first artist I got to produce on my own, where I got credited as produced by ill Factor. And I got that name just from my DJ days, so I just stayed with it. And it just kind of stayed all throughout the career. I had that-

Michael Walker:
Just going to say dude, you don't look that ill. You look like a pretty healthy strapping young fellow.

ill Factor:
Thank you, it's on the inside. No, I mean, it was like, at the time I was doing math homework, I was doing factorizations and I was reading a magazine on Nas' Illmatic. I was like, oh, I could be the ill Factor. And that started off like this corny DJ name thing. And then I stuck with it. I had the chance to change it and I just didn't, and I stayed with it. So whatever.

Michael Walker:
You know what? There was a period where I had a parody DJ project called DJ nightclub. And I don't think that the name is taken yet. If you Google DJ nightclub though, it makes you look awesome. Because there's a bunch of photos of the DJ, like the back. So, if you want to use the name DJ nightclub, just throwing that out there.

ill Factor:
Okay, thank you. I probably won't.

Michael Walker:
I can still use it then, great. That's good news.

ill Factor:
It's totally up for grabs. So needless to say that's kind of like the long way around the barn, but the story really at the very heart and the core of the story, was the mentorship that I was able to have access to. I mean, this is before YouTube.

This is before MySpace. This is before any type of social media was really on the rise. Internet was there, but the ability to cross network across the globe with somebody, that wasn't there. So I really needed to... I was so grateful and beyond blessed to have the opportunity to have a veteran in the industry where I saw a need there. 
And without even knowing, I was like, hey, let me provide value for that need that you might have, which came in the form of remixing and adding additional production. And two, it sort of just pick up. And I left my nine to five around 2002 and just been making a living off of producing music ever since.

Yeah, the end of 2001, that was my last job. And just kind of bouncing from project to project. And it's been quite a roller coaster and that's led, all the gambit even now to producing music for video gaming, partnering up with Ubisoft and doing a lot of things for like Assassin's Creed and, and The Crew and Just Dance and a lot of the IPs that they have. So it's been great. 

It's been an amazing journey. And what I'm most excited about now, which we'll get to later on in this interview is, is Beat Academy and how I'm equipping aspiring musicians, artists, and helping them take their next step with their music production and success in their music career.

Michael Walker:
That's super awesome, man. Thank you for sharing that. It's definitely inspiring. And I love the reminder too, and the focus on the role of the mentors in your life, how big of an impact that that made. And that's something that I feel like I see reflected across all of the most successful people and all of my mentors is that they also have their own mentors and they've learned from others. 
And are able to really shorten the learning curve so much by surrounding yourself with people who've done the thing that they want to do. And also got reminds me of every Hollywood blockbuster movie or story always has this mentor character, right? 

Like Yoda or Dumbledore, and I think that part of that is just that as humans, we really resonate with that idea because that's how our experience works, is that we find that mentor. And so you're doing that. You're providing that service for so many artists. It's awesome.

ill Factor:
On the topic of mentorship, look at where we're currently at right now in the cultural landscape of how we're able to consume instant gratification at just the flick of our thumbs or fingers, or just a click of a button. We can have access to all the information. 

There is nothing new under the sun here that we won't have access to as far as information that we can get to, as far as what we need to produce our music to build a fan base and to actually have the success we're looking for in our musical careers, right? It's there. 
If we do enough research, we can find it. But the reality is the mentor doesn't just bring more information. What it does is it allows the encouragement and the validation for the craft that you're seeking to create. But it also allows you to bring it close to a tailored reality. 

What it does is it bridges the gap from expectations to reality, and a mentor holds you accountable from making sure that your expectations are a lot closer to your current reality. Because when you're looking at all of this information out there, I think you get analysis. You get paralyzed by so much of that information that you're like, I know how to make a beat now.

I can do all these things and why don't I have a million followers overnight? Or why don't I have a million streams? I made the beat exactly the way I found it on YouTube. And I think that's what it is. 
The expectation gets really far out from reality and the mentor just kind of grounds you and holds you accountable to being like, no, man, this is the real life scenario. And this is how you can apply all that stuff into real life, and I'm going to help kind of steer you in the right direction.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. And yeah, I mean, there's such an important distinction right now because of the landscape and the fact that there is so much information, it's much overwhelm. And it's not just about information about implementation and taking action. 
One of my favorite analogies in terms of understanding this idea is the idea of taking a cross-country trip. And if you're trying to go out on your own and you don't have a map, then it's going to be really difficult to find your way to the destination. 

If you're really persistent and you're willing to take a lot of wrong turns and kind of navigate as you go and ask a lot of people for help along the way who may or may not know how to get there, then eventually if you're really processing, you'll probably get there. But it's going to take you a lot of time.

ill Factor:
You'll run out of gas too

Michael Walker:
Run out of gas. Plenty of times, you'll probably break down the side of the road and it's going to get... But if you're persistent enough, a lot of times you can get there. But if you have a map, then it's going to make it much easier to get to the location. But then I view a map as sort of like the information, right?
So it's like the ideas, it's the lessons. It's maybe like a framework, but if all you have is a map, it still requires that one actually take action and you actually move forward towards it. And sometimes that's not easy and sometimes we lose motivation or we get discouraged and it's a long trip. 

And sometimes we also fall off track or we don't even know where's our starting point. Where am I at on this map? How do I get to the... So it sounds like what you're describing is part of the role of a mentor is around accountability and around... It's sort of like a GPS. It's like a step up from the map, but it's actually sort of keeping you on track. 
And if you take a wrong turn, they ground you and they bring you back to make sure that you're moving in the right direction.

ill Factor:
Yeah, I mean, that's a great analogy. Unless your GPS is in another language and you just don't even know where you're going anyway, so.

Michael Walker:
There we go. That's the new element to this analogy that I can think about now. That's great. That's perfect. That analogy now the different language is we have different mentors, different people who resonate with us. And so maybe it was once he speaks a different language doesn't mean that there's a different language.

ill Factor:
Exactly. And it's not that you're like... And here's another thing to keep in mind. I don't know how long we're staying on this subject. We sometimes feel like we can only use the Mac daddy GPS, right? We can only use the pristine top of the line GPS. That's the only way we're going to arrive at our destination. 

We can only find mentors that are at least 50 years plus in the game, or it's got to be the Louis Bells and the big dogs in the industry. The reality is, you just need to follow somebody who's just two or three steps ahead of you. And that's the reality. It doesn't necessarily need to be the person who just got the Grammy last year. 

It could just be as somebody like, hey, you know what? There's somebody on my block or there's somebody in my county. Or there's somebody in my city that owns a studio and I just want to ask them a couple of questions, why don't I just buy them lunch? And say, hey, listen, I'm trying to record music in my bedroom, but I keep getting this weird thing. 
So I think a lot of times there's an illusion thinking mentor equates to, oh, the top dollar, the top shelf person. But in reality, if you can just have somebody who's just two steps ahead of you kind of help you move along, you then ultimately become that person that can look back and help somebody who's two steps behind you. 

And you start to do that notion where you're experiencing what that mentorship was supposed to do anyways, which is to encourage and inspire you to move towards your next step. That's how I see it. I've come across so many people. I was like, oh man, I'm glad I was able to find you. I've been looking for somebody with your quality. 
Granted, you want to follow some... You want to have somebody who's teachable, somebody who would like to mentor. You don't want somebody grudgingly, like, oh, I don't want to deal with you. And I was like, okay, fine, dude. If you don't want me around, I don't want to be around you. 

That goes without saying, but at the same time, you'll be surprised at how many people are just a couple of steps ahead of where you're at that can take you a pretty far distance.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. And I'm glad that we're talking about this. I mean, I, wasn't expecting to talk about mentorship. I think this is something that we all can relate to, and it's just part of the path of success in any area of your life is finding mentorship. 

And I really like the focus that you brought to how, yeah, it doesn't actually have to be someone who's out of the league. In most cases, they're going to be really inaccessible or really difficult to connect with. And just isn't really at the point. 
It doesn't make as much sense as someone who's a little bit closer to you that is just ahead of you who can kind of guide you because they're more in touch with kind of where you're at right now. And they might even be a better mentor for you based on where you're at right now. 
And then also, I really like how you talked about paying it forward and you're mentoring other people and realizing that you have value and that you can help others, you can lead others. And I think that's something that a lot of us overlook because we feel like we're not qualified enough yet. 
And in the human condition, I think that in order to be fully fulfilled, both we need to have a mentor. We need to have people that are ahead of us that we're being guided by. But then also I think that there's an aspect to that where in order to be really functioning at our highest level, I think that there is an aspect of being a mentor to other people and serving them. 

And there's something hugely fulfilling in seeing a part of your... The same way. For me, it's like when I look at my kids and there's a piece of myself in them and there's just so much love and connection that comes from that. 
And yeah, I kind of feel the same way about the people I work with and the people I mentor, the artists that I work with. I see a piece of myself in them. And I remember what it was like when I was just starting out and no one listened to my band. We lived in our van and slept at Walmart parking lots. 

So there's there's so much passion and there's so much fulfillment that I think comes from having both ends of the spectrum. And I think it's really encouraging for a lot of people to think about it like you almost always are going to have people like that who aren't where you're at yet and that you can serve in that way.

ill Factor:
Yeah. No, that's awesome and that's really good.

Michael Walker:
All right, so let's go ahead and let's dive into... Yeah, this is great. I mean, this is fundamental stuff, but you are a Grammy nominated producer and have so much expertise and knowledge and experience around working directly with musicians to help them improve their production. 
So I'm sure at this point you start to see these patterns come up over and over again, and common mistakes or common challenges. I'm curious, what are some of the biggest challenges that you see musicians struggling with when it comes to producing themselves in home studio?

ill Factor:
Yeah, so working with major recording artists and then independent artists, and then working with artists who maybe have been dependent on other producers or other... Just think the full gamut, there is a common thread between all of them. And that is that there's a specific vision that each artist has. 
And there's that technological barriers sometimes that we run into of like, I have this thought in my head, I have this vision of what I want to hear, but I just can't get it out. And so what I want to start off with is I say that because a lot of bedroom producers or a lot of artists think that when they run into those roadblocks, they think that they're the only ones in the world that deal with that.

And I bring that to the attention that the majors do that, the major recording artists do that. When I'm working with SIA or whoever it is, we're in the room and there's strengths and weaknesses that that artist has. The strength is SIA's a fantastic, amazing writer and lyricist, but she's not going to go there and try to make the beats and start working in Ableton and cranking that off. 

That's why she's kind of linking up with me and collaborating with me so that we can get that stuff done. And so I think there's a lot of times where we're bedroom producers, a lot of the struggles I see from a lot of the artists that I'm coaching and helping walk through how to take their next step is that. 
That they think that they are the only ones experiencing any of the valleys or downfalls, pitfalls of being a creative person. And the first thing I have to do is like, hey, it's okay, this is pretty normal. This is stuff that even the pros deal with. I say that because I think there's so many of those areas mentally and in their lives that they're just so hard on themselves for. My music's never ready. 

Oh, I don't know, I don't really like it. Maybe I'm not cut out for this. I was like, you know what? Every everybody's going to be asking, maybe I shouldn't be doing this. Maybe I'm not cut out for this. Don't like how this track sounds and all of this. So I start off with that. 
I think that even on the mindset stuff, and just even understanding some of the heart issues is realizing the difference between the majors and somebody that's starting out. Or just years of realizing they're just years of climbing over those hurdles that they normally run into of doubt and discouragement with their craft. Does that make sense?

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that's so important. And I think I've heard it phrased in a few different ways, but one of my favorite ways to think about it is that one of the most important traits to be successful is a willingness to suck and willingness to suck repeatedly until you start sucking a little bit less. 
And then you start to suck a little bit less, less, less, then actually it doesn't suck so bad. Now it's better. So it sounds like what you're saying is that really step one is being willing to acknowledge that you're imperfect. 
You're just starting out and to develop a skillset and you don't need to know everything and that's normal, and you're going to start out and you're probably going to fail. And you're going to learn lessons for every mistake that you made. And that's an important part of the process.

ill Factor:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, because the way I like to think about it is like the business owner, right? And then the creative artists. Usually the artist, when we dive into this creative world of creating music, we dive into it head first thinking why I love doing it. 
I'm just going to pick up a mandolin or whatever it is, and start just making music. And then the business owner is okay, I'd like to open up a store, but before I do that, I needed to count my costs. I need to come up with a business plan. I need to come up with my inventory. 
So they're strategically, if there are to be a good successful business owner, they're strategically mapping out everything that needs to take place A to Z so that they can go ahead and start that process of entrepreneurship. The musician just jumps right in splashes around in the pool. 
And after waiting in water, treading water a couple of years down, they're like where am I and where am I planning to go? And so we then at that moment think, okay, I'm starting to drown here because I'm just overwhelmed with the comparison, the discontentment and all these things. And then it's like, look, man, it's just like somebody who is starting up a business. 

They just counted the cost. They just know where their stuff is going into. And so I'm not saying that we change it. I'm just saying that that's more what I've realized over the years is realizing, oh, okay, man, I might not be where I want to be, but I'm definitely not where I started out to be. And that's just really good. 
So I start off there for the bedroom producer, for the bedroom artists, for the independent artists, for those who might even been doing this for a while and just feel like I am not seeing any progress. You are. I mean, there is progress there to take inventory off. 

It's just sometimes we need to have a sober assessment of where we started from and where we're going. And yeah, man, just keep moving. Like you said, your beats kind of have to just straight up stuck and just be stank for a little bit so you can get better. Because then you really start to see, okay, yeah, everything I am learning there's fruit of that. 
And I think a lot of the times what I'm experiencing mostly from the younger people, a lot of like maybe the 17 to 20 year old producers who have the time, which is amazing. They have the time in the world, they have access to freaking YouTube.

I'm dating myself by saying, wow, the fact that a 13, 14 year old kid can pop up his parents' laptop properly and legally download software in which they can create music and to have all the time in the world, they're not paying bills or whatever, and they could just make music. And I'm hearing some of the products that they're making. 
I'm like, this is freaking nuts. And you're 14. What comes with that is then they think, yeah, I can make music that easily because I have access to all this information, but why am I not seeing the success so easily? And I was like, whoa, that's the part that... That's the reality and expectation that has to get bridged together.
So, yeah, I start off there and then we can walk into now more of the technical things, like interfaces and recording and production stuff and all the nooks and crannies come in with all that. But I think the big thing to really tackle is that initial mindset of, hey, this is a process and expect it to be a rollercoaster.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that's so good. And certainly is fundamental. It's like building a house on a foundation of rock as opposed to like sand. So, out of curiosity, what are your recommendations be for... Do you have any tips or guidance when it comes to being at that point and kind of keeping their mindset and keeping their head on the right game, paying attention or keeping stock of where they came from so that they don't necessarily fall victim? So like comparisonitis, do you have any sort of mindset, guidance?

ill Factor:
Yeah, I first try not to formulate a silver bullet or a, this is exactly do X, Y, and Z and you're exactly going to get this end result. I think those kinds of things can lead to a lot of frustration because being a creative, being in the music industry and wanting to create music and find success with music, we tend to think that there is a one-size fits all. 
There are some principles that we could utilize and understand this is going to allow me to work smarter, not harder. Absolutely. But I think sometimes what we do is we take it way too personally. And then we try to think, okay, Michael said, if I just do this, this and this, I should see the success. There's a lot of variables that come into play. 
And what we're saying is have a buffer for those types of variables, have an understanding that those things could be different. And so, yeah, I would definitely take stock, like have fun, man. Just love creating music. Just love it, have fun in the process. 

If you want to see some expedited growth, try at the very beginning just either remixing or replicating songs that are really influential for you as an artist. So cover songs, learning how to produce them, how to make them... How does Charlie Puth do that? 
How would I make this Bruno Mars record? And try recreating that from scratch, that's going to be the best way to learn because A, you're excited about that music. You're influenced by it. And then B, you're learning all the details that go into recreating it that becomes second nature to you when you venture out there in the sea to kind of start swimming on your own.
So that's kind of how I look at it. I think the first step is become a fan of the music that started you in this whole thing to begin with, that got you going to begin with.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of... I mean, one of the biggest leaps that I had when I went down the path with Paradise was years of learning how to produce some of our songs and to work on some of the instrumentation, was doing exactly what you said, making a list of songs to recreate. 
And literally for me at that point, it wasn't about being creative with the recreation's. I think there's a point where it's like, yeah, you want to be creative and add your own originality and your own touch to it. But it was so valuable and important at the beginning to literally just like how to track it there.
I'm like, okay, I want to create this exactly as is and learning how to create those sounds was huge. Plus I think the first time I ever met my now wife, I met her and she listened to the recreation of Fireflies by Owl City, and five years of marriage later. So just saying that if you do this, you will find the love of your life and everything.

ill Factor:
There you go.

Michael Walker:
But I love that. Yeah, that starting with the recreation and then kind of, it's like you're creating these tools and now that you have the tools, it's like, okay, well, how do I want to use this paintbrush now that I've started getting comfortable with using the paintbrush?

ill Factor:
Yeah, you're absolutely right. There's going to be plenty of room for you. Even when you recreate the stuff, you're going to add your DNA on it anyways. You're adding your own taste to it. You're adding your thing. 
I'm saying that it's one thing that gets overlooked a lot at the beginning because people think, okay, now that I'm doing this on my own, it's got to be 100% original. And everybody thinks at the very beginning that they're reinventing the wheel or they're creating a new wheel in a sense. So they're like, no, man, I'm mixing like hardcore polka with reggae. 
Nobody's doing that. You'd be surprised there's that one guy in the Netherlands who's already done it. It's what I'm saying, like you're not going to just create a brand new wheel. What you're doing is you're grafting yourself into a process that's already moving. You're coming on a train that's already moving. 
And so enjoy that ride and allow the influences that you have in music. I say that, spend some time studying that. Man, how will they get that snare drum like that? And that was one of the reasons why on my YouTube channel, the Beat Academy YouTube channel, I implement that kind of strategy with the content. 
So I'm always breaking down songs that are currently being released every week and I'll break it down. And I think, because a lot of times A, I was just, I don't know what the freaking to do for my YouTube channel. And I thought, hey, that gives me a task to do every week, so it was good for me. 
But at the same time, there's some familiar rarity where people who see like, oh, I like the song and I would've never thought of it doing it that way. And it gives people a safe foundation to kind of start with. It gives people a good template to kind of start with. 

And then they start to feel comfortable with that because when things come together easily at the very beginning, it makes it easier for them to kind of continue navigating being creative. I don't know, this is all personal opinion on this anyways, but I've seen some really good growth come from that. 
And I've seen it just becomes easier for people when they have that kind of template placed on them. So yeah, because the temptation could be, I've got to do this on my own. Think of the burden you're putting on yourself. You've got to create something so original, right? So original that no one's ever done it before. 
And it's like, you've got to fly this airplane that has never been flown by any other human being and there's brand new controls and you're going to do it on your first time ever flying.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, good luck.

ill Factor:
Good luck, right? So now just have fun with the process, make a bunch of cover songs, record a bunch of cover tracks, mash them up. And just like the way you met your wife, people are going to gravitate to that because they're already familiar with our track record of the stuff you're covering. 
So when you do stuff like, yeah, I'm going to cover this song and mash it up with this song and put my own spin to it. What if you were coaching a country artists, right? And what if that country artist started doing Drake covers, right? All the new Drake songs that come out and just did their own thing, them on a guitar or whatever, and just spun it in their own vein. 

That immediately just becomes magnetic to so many people. That's like, yo, I know that song and the way you did it, that's clever. That's what I'm talking about, is just having fun, putting your creative spin on it. But don't try create a whole new wheel. Just jump on the train that's already moving.

Michael Walker:
Oh, what's up guys. So quick intermission from the podcast. I can tell you about an awesome free gift that I have for you. I wanted to share something that's not normally available to the public. They normally reserve for our $5,000 clients that we work with personally. 

This is a presentation called six steps to explode your fanbase and make a profit with your music online. And specifically, we're going to walk through how to build a paid traffic and automated funnel. It's going to allow you to grow your fan base online in a system designed to get you to your first $5,000 a month with your music.
We've invested over $130,000 in the past year to test out different traffic sources and different offers, really see what's working best right now for musicians. And so I think it's going to be hugely valuable for you. And so if that's something you're interested in, in the description there should be a little link that you can click on to go get that.
And the other thing I want to mention is if you want to do us a huge favor, one thing that really makes a big difference early on when you're creating new podcast is if people click subscribe, then it basically lets the algorithm know that this is something that's new and noteworthy and that people actually want to hear.

And so that'll help us reach a lot more people. So if you're getting value from this and you get value from the free trainings, then if you want to do us a favor, I'd really appreciate you clicking the subscribe button. All right, let's get back to the podcast. Yeah, I think it's really important too.

 
And I think that there's actually a little bit we can dig into here because like what you mentioned about, about this feeling of being afraid to sell out or be unoriginal, and I think can kind of hold us back from having references or from being willing to do things like cover songs. And I think certainly there's like Newton's laws of inertia. 
There's like a momentum to something. And if you want to be commercially successful as an artist right now and you want to reach as many people as possible then, okay, what's reaching as many people as possible right now? And emulating that. And so I'm curious on, it sounds like what you're saying is that you can't help but be yourself. 
And even if you're modeling and you're referencing other songs, you're going to add your own stamps to it. But I'm curious in terms of the phases, so it sounds like phase one, it's like, okay, get comfortable using the paintbrush and you can do that by modeling and learning how to recreate other songs. 

What would you say is the next step in terms of when someone is kind of at that point where they start getting comfortable and they can kind of play around a little bit more? What would you recommend in terms of kind of adding that original twist, original stamp that seems to be working now?

ill Factor:
Yeah, I think phase one is a mixture of diving in and getting creative. So you've got a paintbrush and somebody is already... You're dabbling in, you're exploring what does this blue look like? And you're experimenting. So I didn't want people to hear this and think, okay, so am I slapping myself on the wrist if I'm trying to do anything original? 
No. Have fun with the process, that's what we're saying is dive in with no expectations, getting lost in it. That's the beauty of where we are from day one. That's something that I need to actually revisit because at this stage of my career, I tend to find days where I'm like, okay, this is... It becomes this scheduled out thing. 
And I forgot how to get lost in the process of like, whoa, I used to have fun just tweaking out and streaming. So that's what I'm talking about. Does that make sense? So I'm talking about having that and then what can help define get more redefined, more depth than those colors that we're using is, let me reference this with a track that I really love and then kind of mess around with doing that and stuff like that.

So I think phase two would just... And then becoming your own, finding your own original sound is going to be part of that process. And let's say you take three artists that you're mostly influenced by, right? So if you're a hip hop artists, you say I like Kendrick Lamar, Jay Z and Mos Def. And then you're trying to rap and you're doing stuff in that lane. 
Those three are what I like to call the artists DNA. They've pushed you in a specific lane. And then because of your fingerprint, because of your life's experiences, because of everything that you've gone through, you're uniquely going to approach a style that they put a soap box. 

Those three artists converge and create a soap box for you to stand on, to deliver your message. Does that make sense? And so in the creative, let's get technical here. Let's say you've got pro tools open. You've got Studio One, Logic, Ableton, whatever it is that you're using. There's a mixture of that. 
I think the phase two would be like, okay, I'm kind of now getting comfortable with creating, right? I'm getting comfortable with remixing or taking other people's stuff and kind of reinterpreting it on my own. Now, it's using those references as a guide to be like, okay, where should I go? How do I finish this song? 
How do I take this eight bar loop and turn it into full out song? I think that's the big thing because people are hung up. They're hung up now in the jam sessions is what I'm saying. We're jam in, dope riff, it's eight bars, long. I'm adding these, tweaking things, I'm getting lost on. Okay, good, you got it. Now let's get disciplined. 
Oh no, now let's structure that eight bar riff into the full-out song. But how do I do that? Well, go back to what we've been doing in phase one, we're using those reference stripes. So I tell a lot of people, put tracks in your actual projects, in your sessions. Put like a full-out Bruno Mars song if you're going to be in that lane. 

Put it in your actual DAW, put it in your project and then have it muted. And then do the count. Okay, what are they doing in the verse? Oh, okay. After 16 bars, they introduce this percussion sound. They introduce that in the course. So those are the things that you start to do that then getting grains that then allow you to become original. 
You start to become original when you know how to ride the bike so well enough that you start to become confident in every maneuver that you're doing on your bike. But if you don't know what any lever does, if you don't know what any of these things do, you're just going to be... 

You won't be confident to be original because you're still hung up on how can I do... I don't know what I'm doing here. I don't know why I brought a bike into this, but you kind of know what I'm saying.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, do you know what flashed into my mind as you were describing that was, I think the classic wisdom behind the karate kid, the wax on wax off. That takeaway of why am I doing this? All of a sudden it's like, I just got this super power to be able to use this. So, that's awesome. I think that's a super valuable takeaway to understand.

ill Factor:
Yeah, and it's so crazy how obvious a lot of this conversation sounds, right? It's like, are you serious? Are you telling me to just get lost in that? It's obvious. But like I said, this is the years of me doing this, 20 plus years now looking back and saying, oh man, it was so obvious. 
I just didn't know it back then. I can see it now. I can look back and realize, oh, it was so obvious. I just needed to just relax and not take it so seriously at the beginning. But at the beginning, I was taking it seriously because I didn't realize that's just how we are. We need the person two steps ahead of us to tell us we got toilet paper hanging on our shoe.

Michael Walker:
It's true. I mean, I think that that's part of the trajectory of mastery is that the people who are the most successful tend to have figured out. They've gotten so good at doing the thing that they do, that it just comes very simple to them. 
So, you might look at them and be like, oh, that's really basic, but it's... Yeah, it reminds me of one of my mentors has a student who's the world's number one champion in martial arts. And he was talking to him about his practice. And he was like, yeah, the number one thing that I spend the most time on is the basic punch. 
It's like the one simple punch. That's where he goes really deep. So I think that there's a lot of wisdom in the fundamentals and the principles and simplifying things as much as possible, but not more than possible. To quote Einstein there. 

Cool man. So, let's keep moving on. So what are some of the other biggest challenges or the biggest mistakes that you see musicians make, especially when they're kind of producing themselves at home?

ill Factor:
Okay, so I actually want to go with some practical technical stuff first. I think a lot of times there is a... Wow, because this also is a little similar to what we were just talking about, being able to anchor yourself to a reference. 
Because I think a lot of times when people are either writing their own songs and they're putting stuff down, I treat it as like in literature, you have run-on sentences. They want to say something and they'll sacrifice the melody and the phrasing just so that they can say what they said. 

And at times I'm like, yeah, but if you listen to that song that's charting number one on the charts, I go compare that to this. He was like, yeah, but that's not... No, but what's unique about that melody that you're hearing and in compared to yours? There's a phrasing, right? That melody, that interval, everything about that melody has a rhythm to it. 
There's a phrase there. Your idea is just kind of running all over the place. There's no melody that repeats itself, you're going on. So there's a lot of runoff melodies, or a lot of runoff sentences that go off with a lot of singer songwriters at the very beginning. And I get that because they want to share what they have in their mind.
I was like, man, I really want to say this. But they'll sacrifice saying all of that without understanding how to deliver it in a way that catches the listener's attention. Because a great melody is how you get a crowd to turn around and listen, and turn around and see you. The message is how you get that crowd to listen to you. 
So without that melody that's really locking people, turning people in, what is that? And then, oh, wow. What are they saying? What are they talking about? That's the message of what you're saying. So there's a lot of that that goes on. So I think it really comes down to the importance of reflecting on reference and then moving ahead. 
Reflect on the reference, comparing mine to this. How does that work? And like I said, it gets neglected because so many people just want to jump in the pool. I know how to swim, watch this mom. It's like, I've never took a swimming course in my life, and that's fine. People just want to build an airplane 10,000 feet in the air, figure it out. 
And that's cool too, man. But what I've learned throughout my experience is the huge plus that you get from, okay, what makes that melody? What makes that beat so good when I hear that? I was like, yeah, man, the phrasing is on point. And if you don't know exactly what it is, you can just analyze it. Okay, here's my melody. 
I'm going from like C to E. And then I go to D and I go, okay, but they're going from their C to G. Even little things like that, getting that kind of crazy analytical about it and be like, oh, let me try writing melodies like that. And just messing around until you really get, oh, yeah. 

That's what I've learned being in the studio with so many amazing songwriters, whether it's with like SIA or Pharrell. When you're with these people that have been around other people who do it really well, you see, hey, there is a natural talent given. That's like, wow, it's a freaking... You're absolutely talented. 

But it's that talent that's seasoned with the salt of experience from those around them. And I look back, I'm like, dang, that's a much better line of what I was thinking. Yeah, let's go with that one. And it was like, why? What makes it so good? Oh, it's because like... Where are they going? This doesn't make any sense. 
So I think that's what I see a lot from people in the beginning, but that's okay. It's what's to be expected, but that's what I'm noticing from a lot of people. It's about a really kind of starting out. And then just like, I don't know why, but a lot of the vocal recordings just sound like they're being recorded on their laptop mic or something like that. 
There's just way too much distance or they're not thinking about what... Good recordings go along way. I think once again, we're getting hung up on a lot of the post production, how to get a great vocal with... How to make a dying moo sound like Gloria Stefan or whatever it is. 

Well, what I'm saying is just get a great recording and you'll be surprised with how less work you have to do on the other side of the fence. So, yeah, I'll pause there.

Michael Walker:
That's a good lesson. I mean, what that reminds me of is, there's a few different ways you can describe it, like polishing a turd or putting lipstick on a pig. Just trying to fix something and post, I've heard a lot of times if you can, it's so much better to just start out with a great source recording.
That's certainly something that was a takeaway for me. When I've listened to some tracks or stems from popular songs, I'm like, holy cow, this sounds amazing, even before it was fully mixed and mastered.
So, what are some common, for anyone who's listening to this right now who wants to take a step up in let's say their vocals, for example, just because vocals are such important focal point of a lot of songs, but what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see artists making that hurt their vocals? And how can they take those a step up?

ill Factor:
Oh, man, it's crazy because it's going to be different for some. Like I said, there's some preferences and then there's principle, right? There's preferences of like, oh, I would've liked vocal to be like this. And then the principal things like you recorded that outside in the moving traffic. 

That's a no-no. If you've got a tight space and you're limited with research, there is no excuse. I have a vocal production course where I even teach how to get a great vocal recording using a garage sale microphone that was for $2 that I found. I went around purposely, okay, got this for two bucks. Let's record this. 
Does it work? Yeah, it actually barely worked, recorded it. And I was like, look, you don't need the $10,000 microphone, the studio. So I wouldn't even start with simple, basic things like transposing the key of the song. Does this work? 
And hey, you might be surprised if you go a half step lower or half step higher, how much better that's going to be for you when seeing a lot of times when I'm producing and writing an idea, and I have the singer or the artists with me, we might start humming and vibing off of it. But then she or he might be like, yo, can we go down a half step or a whole step? 

And I won't mess around because as we start to finesse the melody and things like, yeah, that's the spot there, because that is going to be the sweet spot for me when I reach that specific note at the course or something like that.
So I'm all for that and sometimes I might feel like, ah, I don't know, going a half step lower changes the energy, but if it's going to give you the runway to do your thing, then that's where we're going. So I'm going to start with things like that, changing the key of the song. So make sure that you're hitting in the specific range that you're at. 
Actually doing some warm-ups a little bit. I know we go from voice memo to get a pro demo. It's like, yeah, all right, let me just put it on record. And that's fine, you want to capture the idea. So definitely capture the idea down. But when you're ready to kind of record some vocals, doing a little bit of warmups, like helping. 

Do your best to memorize lyrics. You'd be surprised how much you can actually tell when somebody is reading off of their phone or a paper and singing that into the microphone rather than actually saying, okay, I got the lyrics, we got the melody, I've got the ideas down. Let me spend at least an hour or two just memorizing this thing, night and day.
And I'll stop there because I think those are big ones. When somebody can memorize the lyrics, just give them an hour or two and they memorize the lyrics. They're then able to perform it, when somebody is like, all right, we just got it down. Let me just put it down real quick. Some are just going to do it well. 

Like there's some artists that can be like, oh, I got it. And then they just nail it. I'm like, you nailed it. Awesome, let's go for it. A lot of times for people who are just kind of starting out and getting used to this thing, when they're reading off the phone, I can feel it. I don't know if that makes sense, but I can feel where it's just a little stiff. 
There's a lack of confidence in the delivery. And so I'm all about the delivery. I want to capture. I could EQ, I can compress. We can do a whole bunch of things, but without... Rather than going there, yeah, I use this compressor I use this EQ. How about delivering it well? 

I don't care if it's pitchy because I can just go, pitch it up and we're good. But there's no plugin that adds character to a vocal. So I'm all big about that. Give me character. If it's a song full of angst, no, man, come on. You've got to get in it, right? 

If it's a laid back mode, massive attack type of vibe, you're not going to be, with arms wide open. I think that's what gets the vibe across more. So those just a few things that I've noticed throughout my years that have played a big role in a night and day performance where there's a little bit of warming up. 
There's maybe changing the key for that person to feel comfortable to perform it. And then just taking time to memorize it so that they can own the performance and delivery. And then just nailing it through a couple of takes. I'd rather do that than a whole bunch of vocal comping, chopping all this stuff up and doing a whole bunch of things like, all right, yeah. 
And then just get a decent... There's so many microphones out there now. You could just get a decent, good condenser mic and put it in the center of the room so you don't get a lot of... And get a nice little shield around it and you're good, or in a big open room, whatever. 

I'm not trying to get too hung up on the technical stuff, but I think we're getting way too hung up on a lot of the technical things, the technical like, oh, what a 4K? Or do I boost this? That stuff's good, but leave it for the people.
Don't get hung up on that. Where are you going to boost 4K on a song when you sound like a dying Flamingo? No, just get the performance first and then you could figure out the 4K and all the other stuff.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that's so good. I mean, it's such a great example, I feel like of the advice that comes from mastery versus, you know, when you just start getting some expertise around something. It's easy to be like, oh, I like all these plugins, all the different... Exactly like this. Compared to like, oh, nope, it's actually like these things. 
Here's the fun that's really the simple things. Even just that first one that you shared, just figuring out the right key of the song that just suits your voice. That's something that honestly I've overlooked. That's a huge game changer that can totally change the character and the vocal performance and yeah, memorizing the lyrics is a great one. 
Awesome. So last question for you, I think is really helpful one, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it, is sort of knowing when or if it's the right time to find a producer to work with and to take the songs to the next level. 
It seems like nowadays with the level of access that we have to all of this information on YouTube and courses and all this gear, that there's an ability, there's a possibility to really go deep into this and to learn so much yourself. 
So I'm curious on your thoughts for when and if it's the right time to find a producer to work with and how you navigate that situation versus recording yourself and sticking with that and finding the right producer, and what your recommendations would be.

ill Factor:
Yeah, and that's a great question. I think as we've stated before, it's going to look different for everybody. And I think there's a different personality that allows that person to be like, I'm bootstrapping this myself and I'm going to go all in. I'm going to learn how to record. I'm going to learn how to mix. 
I'm going to learn how to master and produced, get it. And that's awesome. You're going to do that, just stick with it, crawl through the mud and get it done. But you'd be surprised even people bent on that path that they're heading down that road, it's not a wrong road to go on. 
When you're heading down that road, you would see the numerous blessing that comes from collaboration, even on that path. Because you're going to realize with some rhythm and practice, you're going to realize, man, okay, this is what's coming easy to me. Picking up a guitar, coming up with riffs and vocal melodies. 
I got it. But, man, getting this thing to actually sound decent, that's kind of where I'm lacking. And so I would even push more on the strengths and the natural giftings that come easily to you and then start to think about, okay, I can spend time now strengthening these little weaker links that I have, or I can just collaborate with somebody saying, you know what?

Here, I've learned the basics of recording and putting a beat down to something. Not like putting a beat down to somebody, but putting a beat down to something. I've got that down. I've got the basic principles down. I've got the basic elements there so that I can interpret or understand how to articulate my vision to the person I'm handing the baton over to. 
For those of you who are not familiar with a relay race, you're handing over the baton so somebody can then pick up where you left off and head to the finish line. So I'd see it like that. I think as you start to become more confident, more aware where weaknesses lie, have somebody else be a part of that journey.
And then you'd be surprised with the results of that. I wouldn't say like, hey, when you get to point A that's when you get to go to producer. Like I said, it's going to be different. And some people might not... I've got artists and members of my Beat Academy platform that have done it from... They had no idea between a hard drive and a toaster oven to starting out to record. 

Then they're finishing up their EP, mixing and mastering it all on their own. And they're doing great, and that's awesome. So, yeah, like I said, that might be it for somebody, but there's so many resources out there whether you're taking advantage of the stuff that you're providing or Beat Academy or sound better, whatever it is, just note that I think what's always going to give you the best results is when there's a nurtured relationship. 
When there's somebody that's like, man, I got where you're... Not every producer is going to be great for every artist. I get hit up so much with a lot of independent artists or people on Instagram that like, hey, I've got ideas. I want to collab. Yo, let's collab? Or would you like to produce? I would like you to produce my stuff.
And although I can just simply hit them, yap, this is what it's going to cost to work with me, and there you go. But I could simply say, you know what? I might not be the best vibe. I might not be the best fit for you just because I'm not in the ballad space or I'm just not, I don't know... I can point you to somebody I know that would really fit your style. 
I think that's really a big part. Not just knowing when to work with the producer, but establishing a relationship with somebody that gets your vision or that gets you as an artist. Does that make sense? And I think when you do that, there's going to be a natural ebb and flow of, hey man, I get you.

And I understand, you know what? I do this let's collaborate because it's going to be a very mutual beneficial relationship. And it's not going to be forced because I like what you're doing already. I only want to come along and add value to what you're doing and enhance what you're doing. 
Not have you restructure everything, rebuild everything and rediscover who you are and then go where I want to go. Does that make sense? Because I think that's a lot of times what a lot of people come to me and say, hey, can you work with me? And I'm like, I don't like where you're headed. 

And I personally want to deconstruct everything you're doing and so we can go where I want you to go. It's selfish of me, but at the same time, like, I don't like where you're headed because I don't know if I want to go there. So if you want to ride on this ride, you've got to go this way. And I don't want to do that to them. 
So I'm like, I don't know, it's not going to work out maybe. You've got some great music, but you might want to hit up so-and-so and they might really benefit you. I've had the pleasure of working with a crazy spectrum of artists from all different range, whether it's from Timberland and Roshi Murphy, which is an amazing talented artists from Europe. 
And then we've got Kygo, which is in the dance world and we've got Kelly Rowland. So I've been all over the place, even done some kind of scoring stuff for movies. And so I love the challenge. So when somebody is like, yo, can you guys like... You know what? That seems like a challenge for it, but not everybody's like me. 
And there's guys who are like, I don't want... I do what I do, and I love doing it. That's my rant. I don't know if I made any sense, but there it is.

Michael Walker:
There's a ton of really good stuff there. So I mean, it sounds like the biggest takeaways are that it's not a one size fits all for everyone. And specifically, especially when it comes to producers, a lot of it's about finding people you resonate with who understand the vision, who are a good fit for you. 
And also a lot of it's about figuring out, taking stock of what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses and being strategic about who compliments you based on those. So even just making a list, like sitting down, okay, what are my strengths as a musician, as an artist and a recording artist?
And maybe also asking for some feedback from other artists that you've worked with, producers you've worked with who can be honest with you about what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. And then being strategic about finding people that can compliment you and can resonate and work really well together.

ill Factor:
Yeah. Wow, why don't you just answer the question? That was much [inaudible 00:56:43]

Michael Walker:
See, that's what I do is I just reflect. So it's your genius. Awesome man, cool.

ill Factor:
That was good.

Michael Walker:
Well, hey dude, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I think I've learned a ton. I always know that's a great conversation when I can walk away, I'm like, man, this is great. I've learned a ton. So thank you so much for being here and taking the time to share what you've learned and to be able to mentor other artists as well as continue your own career. 
So anyone who is listening right now who's interested in learning more from you, I know that you have a ton of resources when it comes to free trainings and courses and whatnot. But what would be the best place for people to go first to dig deeper?

ill Factor:
Just head over to beatacademy.com. There's plenty of free resources available there and there's also many opportunities for you to take that next step. Like I said, I provide the resources, but I wanted it to be a mentorship bridge. Not only access to myself, but to other leading industry professionals that I invite into the process. 
And so beatacademy.com and if you're like, well, I don't make beats. Trust me, I got so people from all across the board, singer songwriters that are tired of depending on other people to produce their music, they want to learn how to do it. EDM DJs that are, hey, I've been deejaying for a while and I'm diving into wanting to produce my own music to actually play it where I'm at. 

And so, yeah, it's quite an amazing community. So there's accountability there to help you. There's monthly accountability to help you get moving on your goals and I'm deeply involved in that. So I'm spending a lot of time in the Beat Academy platform, super excited about that. 
So beatacademy.com. And as you mentioned, through that, you will find access to all my free resources and a membership that I have available.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Well, thank you, man. I really appreciate it. And yeah, just to reiterate, I think that creating music and learning how to really hone your craft and to learn from people like yourself who have spent so much time and tens of thousands of hours already to learn it, is such a huge opportunity that I highly recommend you going and checking it out and checking out some of the trainings, and seeing how you can serve them more.

ill Factor:
Yeah, thanks man. Thanks for having me.

Michael Walker:
Cool. Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes, to learn more about our guest today. And if you want to support the podcast, then there's few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode.
Secondly, if you share it with your friends on your social media, tag us. That really helps us out. And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review it's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take their music careers to the next level. The time to be a modern musician is now, and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.