Melissa Mulligan:
Make real friends. Connect with real people. I don't even say think about fans. Make friends, make connection and it will grow. It really does grow exponentially.

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician, and it's only getting better.

Michael Walker:
If you have high quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, I'm going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry, and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker:
We're officially live for our Music Mentor Spotlight. Hey, Melissa. How are you doing today?

Melissa Mulligan:
Hey, I'm great. How are you doing?

Michael Walker:
Doing well, excited to talk with you.

Melissa Mulligan:
Well, I'm happy to be here.

Michael Walker:
So this isn't our first rodeo. This isn't our first time talking with Melissa. So some of you might be familiar with her, but for those of you who aren't, you're definitely in for a treat. It's going to be a fun conversation.

Michael Walker:
All right, so Melissa Mulligan is a vocal and branding coach who has been helping vocalists and creators of music reach their authentic potential for more than two decades now. And she's worked with professional recording artists like AJR, Chelsea Cutler, Jeremy Zucker, New Found Glory, and works as a vocal consultant for major labels, music industry professionals. Her students have signed major record labels, toured around the world, won platinum and gold records, and performed on all the late night and daytime talk shows. So she's done a thing or two here in the industry. She's a very cool person.

Michael Walker:
And today, I found out we both really enjoy talking about artist identity and music branding, and how to take your passion, take your music, and build a core audience around that in a way that's authentic to you and some of the mindsets, some of the inner blocks that come up on that process. So Melissa, thanks so much for taking the time to be here and do the Music Mentor Spotlight.

Melissa Mulligan:
Thanks for having me. I always love these talks that we have. Somehow we wind up like deep and in tears within about 15 minutes so always good.

Michael Walker:
I know. That just did happen. I feel like we tend to go plunge below the surface very, very quickly when we're talking so it's good stuff.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
So while we're talking, anyone who's here right now, if you have any questions or you'd like to raise your hand and ask a question, then you can actually, because we're here live, you can actually do that. You can click on the little raise hand button at the bottom of the screen on Zoom or you can click on Q&A and that's going to be where you can submit your questions. And we'll have a segment here at the end where we answer all the questions that come in and yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. So Melissa, for anyone who is just discovering you for the first time, could you share a little bit about your story and how you got started and the role that you're playing now for musicians?

Melissa Mulligan:
Sure. I mean, well, this is what I tell everybody. I'm addicted to three things. So I'm addicted to being a creator of music myself. So I'm addicted to writing, recording, performing, just making art, right, sonic art. I am also addicted to people who make sonic art. So my favorite people on earth are the musicians, the creators, the weirdos, the nut jobs. These are my people. And so that's why I love what I do so much, right, 'cause I'm making music with those people all day, every day. And then my third addiction would be dogs. So if we ever do Zoom together and you have a dog, please bring the dog 'cause that will definitely light up my life. Yeah, so those are really the three most important things to me in the world.

Michael Walker:
Ah, that's nice. I'm imagining the perfect artist being like having all three of those things. So being a dog that makes music, that would be incredible. And if you guys are dogs or have dogs, I would love just ... I mean I love dogs ...

Melissa Mulligan:
If you have dogs that sing, let's talk.

Michael Walker:
I think that rings a bell. I think that on America's Got Talent, at one point, there actually was a dog that howled and sang as a talent. It was pretty incredible.

Melissa Mulligan:
Have you seen the video of the dog singing along with All of Me by John Legend? He matches the vibrato.

Michael Walker:
What?

Melissa Mulligan:
It's awesome. He's like ... So funny.

Michael Walker:
Wow. That is incredible. The world is a good place. The world is a good place. Cool. Well, Melissa, I know you have a ton of experience working hands on directly with artists for over two decades now. So I'm sure that in that time, you start to see patterns or see the same questions, the same challenges and things coming up over and over again. So I'm wondering to start out, what are some of the biggest challenges or the biggest things that you see coming up for musicians that you start working with?

Melissa Mulligan:
Well, are we talking about in the artist identity space or in what space are we contextualizing this?

Michael Walker:
Yeah, let's do to ground it, let's say in the music branding, artist identity, and sort of discovering who am I as an artist? How do I stand out? What's my place in this?

Melissa Mulligan:
Sure, sure. So I think a couple of things. There's a whole mindset piece that is very individualized, right? So you have your people pleasers who are like, "Tell me who to be, tell me what's marketable. Let me look at the algorithms and see which posts get the most likes and I guess I'll do that." So that's one mindset block that is a huge mistake.

Melissa Mulligan:
And then you also have people who really are just doing the cart before the horse process, right? So they're like, "I've been told I need to have a brand. So let me figure that out," right? And they're trying to figure that out in a very external way. What colors do I wear? Do I wear a hat? What? Should I be on TikTok or Instagram or should I livestream? And what they have not yet done is the internal creative exploration, right?

Melissa Mulligan:
If you push or get a coach to help you with it, Michael and I are both big fans of coaching clearly, if you thought there was a better way to help you do something else, get coaching, get really ... If you are not getting really deep and pushing the edges of your own creativity, if you're being creatively complacent or creatively lazy, and just kind of going, "My artist identity is like go with ukulele," when really it's just the only instrument you play, right, you're going to miss out. You're going to be focused on these external things and never really discover your internal brilliance, right?

Melissa Mulligan:
And then the third problem, and I know, Michael, your audience now is getting to know I'm a real pain in the ass about this topic, but the third problem is really not having enough skills and enough tools in your toolkit to create something that brands you. If you are not getting into a DAW, if you're not learning to use Logic or Ableton as an instrument in and of itself, if you are not self-sufficient, if you can't spend all weekend making full on recordings because you got these ideas in your head right now, then you're really missing out on the modern way of self-exploration and defining who you are.

Melissa Mulligan:
I mean, ultimately, your art is your artistic identity. The clothes, the visual, all those things can be a fun accessory for who you are, but it's not who you are, right? So, yeah, I think those are the three main things.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. So let's kind of drill down maybe on one of those challenges or one of those mistakes. And again, if you're watching this right now, make sure to be writing a list of questions or notes and put those in the Q&A, then that'll be awesome as we're going throughout this, but it sounds like one of the biggest challenges is kind of putting the cart before the horse and really trying to figure out externally, kind of trying to find out what's happening right now and how can I kind of chase what this other person is doing or chase the algorithms and trying to please people. So I'd love to dive a little bit into that feeling 'cause I think as creators or as musicians, probably one thing that attracted a lot of us to making music was seeing how it really gave us a platform to be able to express ourselves and how it pleased people around us. I think it's pretty common as musicians, we really feed on that validation, that external validation.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
So I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about that issue that comes up. How can someone who maybe is feeling that fear of wanting people to like them and like their music and is feeling a little bit shy maybe about kind of how they're coming across and wanting, and is a people pleaser. How can they overcome that?

Melissa Mulligan:
Sure. There's a few things that you can do. I think one really important question I just asked a young woman that I met with earlier over the weekend, one really important question that I always ask is what do you have to offer? And don't be afraid of that question 'cause I promise you, the answer is not nothing. The answer might be, I don't know, but that's where you need to learn to live as an artist is in this I don't know. I'm going to ex explore and I'm going to figure it out.

Melissa Mulligan:
So I asked this young woman, really gifted singer, songwriter who was showing up with very pretty, dare I say, kind of generic and safe stuff on social media. I had gotten to know her as this beam of light. Instantly, she was showing up in Zoom classes and I was like, "There's my best friend now." And I would joke with her, "She's my best friend." Go to Instagram and I was not getting that vibe of like, "Here's my best friend," but to me that was such an obvious part of her artist identity. I'm your best friend who makes great music that lights you up, right?

Melissa Mulligan:
So I said to her, "What do you have to offer?" And her first thing was "Well, based on the algorithms of them and based on the data, people tend to like when I do this." And I was like, "Well, that is not at all the question that I asked you. What is it you have to offer?" And she said, "Well, I work really hard at what I do." And then I said, "Well, that doesn't help me. What are you offering me?" She said, "Well, I'm a really, really trained vocalist. I think I sing really well." I said, "The world doesn't need you to sing well. Nobody cares," right? And this is where again, I can be a pain in the ass. I said, "I'm glad you sing well, but like, what is it that ... A lot of people sing well. What is it that you have to offer?" And that's where I could see almost the tears welling up and a little bit of that fear of like, "Oh, man, I don't know. I don't know. What if I don't have anything to offer," right?

Melissa Mulligan:
And so getting to the edge of that abyss, that is why you're ...  That is why you're people pleasing. That is why you're coming across as a blank slate. That is why you're trying so hard because there's that what if, what if, what if? And I see we have David's comment in here, there is no such thing as nothing. Of course. We're humans. We are here for a reason and we've been given the desire to share our souls for a reason. So if you do nothing else, write something that says what if I have nothing to offer and make that what you start to share? I'm pondering this question of what if I have nothing to offer and you watch how many people show up and say, "I feel the same way and you've just offered me a window into my soul."

Melissa Mulligan:
So yeah, I think asking yourself those really poignant questions and journaling about them will get you either to a bunch of unknowns that you can then share and talk about or some things that you know for sure about yourself and about what it is you'd like to offer the world. And then that's what you can share and talk about.

Michael Walker:
All right, let's take a quick break from the podcast so I can tell you about a free, special offer that we're doing right now exclusively for our podcast listeners. So if you get a ton of value from the show, but you want to take your music career to the next level and connect with a community of driven musicians and connect with the music mentors directly that we have on this podcast or if you just want to know the best way to market your music and grow an audience right now, then this is going to be perfect for you. So right now, we're offering a free two-week trial to our music mentor coaching program. And if you sign up in the show notes below, you're going to get access to our entire music mentor content vault for free. The vault's organized into four different content pillars, the first being the music, then the artist, the fans, and the last, but not least, the business.

Michael Walker:
When you sign up, you unlock our best in-depth master classes from a network of world class musicians and industry experts and the most cutting edge strategies right now for growing your music business. On top of that, you'll get access to our weekly live masterminds where our highest level of modern musician coaches teach you exactly what they're doing to make an income and an impact with their music. Then once a month, we're going to have our Music Mentor Spotlight Series. And that's where we're going to bring on some of the world's biggest and best artist coaches and successful musicians to teach you what's working right now. And one of the most amazing parts is that you can get your questions answered live by these top music mentors. So a lot of the people that you hear right here on the podcast are there live interacting with you personally. So imagine being able to connect with them directly.

Michael Walker:
On top of all that, you'll get access to our private music mentor community. And this is definitely one of my favorite parts of music mentor and maybe the most valuable is that you're going to have this community where you can network with other artists, link up, collaborate, ask questions, get support and discuss everything related to your music career. So if you're curious and you want to take advantage of the free trial, then go click on the link in the show notes right now, and sign up for free. From there, you can check out all of the amazing contents, connect with the community and sign up for the live master classes that happen every week. This is a gift for listening to our podcast, supporting the show. So don't miss out. Go sign up free now. And let's get back to our interview.

Michael Walker:
There's so much goodness to ... Let's unpack there, share around this idea of just fear of not knowing. And it does seemed like there's a super power and being comfortable with being uncomfortable or being okay with not knowing and not trying to hide the fact that you don't know, but using that as a jumping off point, a platform to learn. It's like, oh, well, I don't know, but I can figure it out. Really powerful story.

Michael Walker:
So what are some thoughts, what are some ideas for, let's say that someone's here right now and they're following along with this and they're like "Holy cow, I don't really know exactly how to articulate that. I don't really know how to communicate what I offer." And if someone's kind of at that point where they're at that abyss, where do they go from there? Maybe there are a few good questions they could ask themselves or journal on specific prompts maybe for them to start exploring this idea of what that is.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah. I mean it's such a big question, right? Who am I and what do I have to offer? You can ask people who are closest to you to describe you in three words or three phrases. And then you can also ask people who don't know you to describe you in three words or three phrases. There's always a really cool dichotomy there, right? The people who know me best know me very, very differently than the way that you and I know each other, right? There are some people who see me as like a whack job, free spirit, risk taker, nut ball. And there are other people who are like, "You are my most logical, grounded friend."

Melissa Mulligan:
So I think getting to know how you're coming across when you're making art and when you're showing up and performing, and then also maybe other people can help reflect back to you what they see in you that you don't see in yourself, that can help. And then, yeah, some introspective stuff about if I had one perfect audience member who automatically got what I was throwing down, who is that person? What do they look like? What do they want? Why do they jive with me so well? That can sometimes be easier than asking yourself like, who am I? And what is it that people like about me?

Michael Walker:
Hmm. Awesome. One thing that, just an idea that just came up at the end of that, 'cause there's a few moments of things that you just said that were so good, they're little quotable nuggets of wisdom, I've seen in some live things like this, one role that sometimes people in the audience will play is they'll quote and they'll share little snippets of wisdom in the chat and just kind of repeat some of those things. So if someone here wanted to kind of ... I mean I think the benefit for you, too, is that it really helps you to absorb the takeaways and the things that you're learning.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
But whenever you guys have kind of light bulb moment or a really cool quote or something, if you wanted to quote it, put it in the chat. I think that'd be a great way to be able to ... And then you can also at the end save the chat and it's just a great source of extra value for everyone. Yeah, I love that.

Michael Walker:
And the idea of being able to have conversations with people where you discuss these things and it is kind of like sometimes we're like a fish in water, right, where it's like we don't even realize that we're swimming in water 'cause we're always surrounded by it. But then getting outside perspective is kind of like, "Whoa," it can really kind of shine on light on something that was unobserved inside of you.

Michael Walker:
And to your point about how asking questions and having these conversations, I think having ... This is something that isn't that much of a secret to business people, especially that in order to find out what do you offer that's valuable is you get on calls, you get on conversations with the people that you're looking to serve and you ask them like, "What do you find most valuable about this? What are your biggest challenges with this? How can I serve you? Or what's your biggest goal when it comes to this?"

Michael Walker:
So I think the same thing probably applies to ... I mean, you guys, as musicians, getting on Zoom calls, Zoom meetings with your fans and asking them like, "Who are some of your favorite bands and why do you listen to them? What do you really get from music? What's the value that's offered? What do you wish that artists would offer? What is your favorite, ultimate experience you can possibly imagine having with one of your favorite artists?" And there's probably a lot of really good gold nuggets that could come out of that for you.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah. And I think when you get those answers, be careful not to try to please everybody 'cause you're going to have people say, "Oh, I love the bands that take me deep into my problems." And you're going to have people say, "I love the bands that are really happy and party animals who make me forget my problems," right? So when you get those answers, you have to pay attention to the internal bolts of electricity you get of recognition of like, that's what I do or I could do that for you, right? Yes, that's the type of music I want to make. It's not about what everyone else is saying. Those are conversations that you're having to help you recognize yourself in those conversations.

Michael Walker:
Hmm. I love that. Yeah, 'cause that does seem like one of the questions that comes up or one of the challenges. How do you balance what other people are saying? And how much do you believe about it or take it to heart versus realizing that you don't need to actually need to be validated based on what someone else says.

Melissa Mulligan:
If you're seeking validation, you're not making art. I'm sorry, but you're not. You're making a product and we're not doing this because we want to make products. If you want to monetize your art, yes, you will need to understand how that industry works, but the beautiful situation that we are in right now is art that resonates with people is what the industry is responding to. And they're not even responding to the art as much as they're responding to the people's response to your art. And people who are going to respond to your art aren't ... they are not passive music consumers who like top 40 music. Those people already have famous people to follow and... right?

Melissa Mulligan:
You are an independent, unsigned, underground weirdo. And so you are going to appeal to people who want homemade, authentic, real art. And as those people flock to you because you're offering them something real, something that says, "I don't care what anybody else says. I'm doing what I'm doing and I'm doing it for the three people out there that I know need to hear me," right? As those people are attracted to you, that's proof of concept. And if you want to then go into the industry, if that's part of your roadmap, that's what gets you there anyway. So this old school focus of I've got to do what the industry wants and I have to do what the radio wants is deader than dead. You're really forced to free yourself and be a true artist today. And that's the best thing about this really weird place that we're in, in the industry right now is that the art has to lead.

Michael Walker:
Hmm. I love that. That's so good in terms of not feeling like you have to pretend to be someone else or to pretend to be bigger than you are and embracing when you're starting out with the three people. Yeah, I love that, you talk a little bit about that 'cause I think that that's something I see a lot, too, is sort of this fear of being seen as or wanting to make an impression, like you have a bigger audience than you do or feeling like you're not enough or feeling like you have to kind of avoid people finding out, you don't want people to find out that you're just starting out.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah, that imposter syndrome that we all have anyway, right? I mean is anybody here fooled by people's vanity numbers? Is anybody here fooled by someone who has no music out on Spotify, but somehow miraculously has 50,000 spot followers on Instagram? Or the reverse, is anybody fooled by somebody who's got a hundred followers here or there and has never played a live show and has 500,000 streams on one song on Spotify? Is anybody fooled by that? If you guys aren't fooled by it, Capital Records isn't fooled by it either. It's really become almost laughable at this point. And we're all getting the same Facebook ads of the companies that allow you to pay for numbers, right? So just try to make real friends. Treat social media like it's an actual social thing. Make real friends. Connect with real people. I don't even say think about fans. Make friends, make connections and it will grow. It really does grow exponentially.

Melissa Mulligan:
I mean I don't know how many of you guys are Chelsea Cutler fans, but she comes into our mastermind groups and talks here and there. And people don't like her answers 'cause she's like, "Well, I had 20 people who came to every show and after every show, I would hang out with them. And then I would be exhausted, but I'd be messaging with them on Instagram. And then I'd be messaging with their friends on Instagram. And then next thing, I knew there were 120 people that I had to Instagram with and I just didn't sleep. I was just spending all of my time traveling, messaging all these people nonstop." And now look, nobody was out there boosting numbers for Chelsea Cutler to have a career.

Michael Walker:
That's so important and such a good lesson, too, that I think that we can learn from is that temptation to sort of to skirt to make things appear bigger than they are, rather than focusing on what makes ... It's almost like trying to fix a root level issue on the level of the symptom, right? It's like the symptom of success is that those numbers go up, but that's not really a root of kind of what causes that. So if you just artificially create that, then you're missing the roots. And so it comes ungrounded and it just doesn't really work.

Melissa Mulligan:
We're still humans at the end of the day. We still connect the way we always have, which is through honest, I hear you, I see you, work. So if you're looking for validation, maybe you should give the validation away that you seek and see how that works ...

Michael Walker:
Mmm, boom. Mic drop moment there. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. I mean that is such a valuable, maybe one of the most valuable currencies that you have as a human being is your ability to shine a light and to appreciate ... Appreciation is almost like this fertilizer. It's like if you appreciate something, it blossoms. It's like you fertilize a plant, it just it grows. And so, yeah, that's so good. And I see now you guys are writing some of the quotes there in the chat. Laura Butler, appreciation is like fertilizer, it blossoms. Neil says it's not about convincing a stranger you're a big deal. It's about letting a stranger know that they matter to you. Yeah, really good.

Michael Walker:
And one thing I want to drill down on that you said that again, we talked a little bit about, but I think it's just such a valuable nugget that you just shared is this idea that when you're starting out, you're not trying to appeal to the people who appeal to top 40 artists because you're not a top 40 artist and it's probably going to be a while until you've reached that point.

Michael Walker:
And so, I mean and one question for you, actually, as it applies to this, this idea is you see this sometimes with artists who started out and they've built a very grassroots audience who loves them for their kind of indie, smaller kind of sound and their stuff. And then sometimes, it's not always this case, but sometimes, they can feel like there's some resistance to taking things to the next level. And this tendency for some of those first fans like, "Oh, they sold out or they sort of they lost their signature, they lost who they are. I don't like the new stuff, even though it's more popular." And there's sort of like a hipster like, "Oh, yeah. I only like the old stuff. The new stuff," blah, blah blah.

Michael Walker:
So I'm curious about, about your thoughts around that idea of really at the beginning, making sure that you're really connecting with those fans and what you're ... that they're looking for you specifically and something they can't get from a top 40 artist right now.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah. I mean are you talking about the artists themselves have resistance to grow larger or that fans resist coming along with them?

Michael Walker:
Kind of both. Yeah, I think I mean maybe the ... And as I describe this, I mean maybe it's not the ... This is probably a good conversation for someone who's kind of at that point where it's like they're ready to kind of stretch and they have an existing audience who's maybe there's ... I think that's like a normal thing that kind of happens.

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
But it might be better to start out a little bit earlier, just in terms of the idea that you don't have to be a top 40 artist and that you actually have something that's more valuable to offer right now than the top 40 artist due to the smaller number of fans.

Melissa Mulligan:
I think you're touching upon something that I come up with all the time when I work with artists and that is fear of success. Fear of success is massive. Fear of success is actually more prominent in this field than fear of failure because success means ... I hear it all the time. I'm sure you do, too. Does it mean that I'll have to leave my significant other? Does it mean that my income will be determined by Spotify? But what does this mean? What will it mean? Am I going to have to sell out? Am I going to have to go to a label and have them take away my creative fulfillment? Am I going to hate it, is the question. Are people going to hate me? Am I going to have to ... Wait. You mean usually only one person from a band gets signed so my best friends aren't going to be able to be in the band maybe, right? There's a lot of fear around success.

Melissa Mulligan:
So if it helps, you guys should know that by the time a real industry opportunity is upon you, you will likely not need to take it if you don't want to. You can absolutely choose to stay independent, stay at the top of your lane, your niche market, travel, tour, sell music, sell merch. There are a lot of successful people making really solid livings, living very happily without getting involved in the Ed Sheeran machine that we see. So enjoy the journey. Enjoy that wonderful problem if and when it finds you, and just know that no one's going to take your autonomy away. It's a different world than it used to be.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. That's so good. So we've got one other question from Devon. Devon asked, I've got a question based on what you said about how you have to just be truly unique. When we think about dating, how when you go on a first date with someone, you definitely need to be yourself, but at the same time, it's like you don't just want to completely share everything all at once. You have to hold back a little bit at first 'cause you literally don't know the person and you need to figure out when you're first starting out, what to express and be proud of, and what you need to hold back. Also, they say that poetry is just much about what you don't say as what you do. So how do you start off with figuring out your artist's identity? How do you decide what do you show and what do you conceal?

Melissa Mulligan:
Oh, I love this question. I love this question so much. Okay. This is not like dating because you're never going to know these people in person. It never needs to evolve beyond what you choose to show and what you don't ever so it's ... I hear what you're saying and yet you're not going into like a marriage or any sort of intimate relationship with your fans. You're making art. And so your art can be a Jackson Pollock. It can be a word version of Jackson Pollock, right? It can be total poetry. It can be random, absolute nonsense stream of consciousness, if that's your art, right? And that can literally be the way you express yourself in your diary for all I know, right?

Melissa Mulligan:
So I'm not ... I'm so glad you asked for that clarification because I am not literally saying you have to show up without any sort of artistry or poetry in the way that you present yourself. I think you should explore all sorts of weird, random, abstract ways of expressing yourself. None of that is hiding in my opinion. All of it is showing exactly what it is that you want to make and that you want to share with the world.

Michael Walker:
Boom. Mic drop. I feel like there's been a few moments where ... At this point, I really should just get like a symbolic microphone that I can drop so that special moments that you do that.

Melissa Mulligan:
That would be some great things to add.

Michael Walker:
It would be great if I can get like a special, like a little button I can press that just like drops a virtual microphone in the middle of the screen. All right. Well, Melissa, hey, thank you so much for taking time to be here today. And I always enjoy our conversations. You're awesome. And for anyone who's here right now, I think that Ari just posted it in the chat, which is awesome, but I would love to hear a little bit ... I know you guys have some big plans right now and some things that you're doing within your community. And so I'd love to hear you just talk a little bit about what's on the radar right now. And for anyone who's watching this right now who wants to connect more or look deeper into the resource you offer, what would be the best place for them to go there?

Melissa Mulligan:
Sure. This fall, we are doing some live mastermind programs in music production where you're working with in real time with professional producers and a multi-Grammy winning producer. Sharing your screen and your audio, he can actually go in and fix things and teach everybody while in your track, which is pretty amazing. He's also doing a mixing program later in the fall. And then I haven't announced it yet, but I have a very special, super secret contemporary vocal artist identity integration program coming up later in the fall. So if you at least reach out, that lets me know I can keep in touch with you and let you know when all of those things come together.

Michael Walker:
Wow. That's awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that, the super secret thing and-

Melissa Mulligan:
Secret, yeah.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. I mean the ability to actually have your songs in your session walked through by a multiple Grammy ... You say Grammy nominated or was it Grammy award winning or ...

Melissa Mulligan:
Multiple Grammy award winning producer, yeah.

Michael Walker:
Wow. That is incredible. Cool. So sounds like best next step would be to click on the link to reach out and connect with you personally. And then from there, there'll be the different resources that they can stay connected and get notified with?

Melissa Mulligan:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
Well, thank you so much, Melissa. I think that that's really, really generous and generous of you to come on here and to share your time with everyone and answer these questions. It's been awesome.

Melissa Mulligan:
My pleasure. Thank you, guys. Thanks for having me.

Michael Walker:
Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today. And if you want to support the podcast, then there's a few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends on your social media, tag us, that really helps us out. And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take their music careers to the next level. The time to be a modern musician is now. And I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.