Kyle Hunter:
You can release music yourself and still put it in music licensing. And that's the beautiful thing about it. You can have active income, passive income, portfolio income from music because you're selling it yourself, you're getting your own streams, you're getting placements. And then, because you're getting these placements, the popularity of the music explodes. So now you're getting income on the front end and the back end. So that's the name of the game, generating multiple income streams. So you're not working so hard, your music is working for you.

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be in independent musician. And it's only getting better. If you have high quality music but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution with today's music industry, and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker:
All right. And we're here live with Kyle Hunter. Kyle, dude, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today. How are you doing today?

Kyle Hunter:
No problem. Thank you for having me, Michael. It's totally a pleasure, man. Always a pleasure connecting with you, man.

Michael Walker:
Absolutely. So Kyle Hunter, also known as K. Sparks, is a musician and an entrepreneur. He's written over 500 songs. He's recorded with Kid Cudi, over 8.3 million streams on Spotify, SoundCloud, Apple Music, the CEO of Rhythm Couture, which is a music library with 40 artists worldwide and they focus on sync and licensing placements. They've gotten placements on 50 Cent's TV series Power, and Nick Cannon, Wild Style Champs, LeBron James had a Powerade campaign, Calvin Klein, Vans, Forever 21, MTV, New York Times. So a lot of places, a lot of really great places. And you were just saying that you just got a couple of new big placements, right? And there's a NDA on one of them so you can't give all the details on one, but...

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, a lot of great placements. Yeah. One, we have an NDA, so for those listening that don't know what that is, that's a non-disclosure agreement. So we can't really divulge all that. But once it does launch, I'll definitely tell Michael, he'll get the word out to you guys. And yeah, also, we had something on NBC Sports recently for a big campaign for a motorbike. So it's pretty awesome, man. Things are moving.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, for sure, dude. So specifically, he's got something called musical licensing blueprints where he really dives into what makes a song syncable, how do you establish relationship with the people who actually need those songs, and it's really about helping artists to build a profitable stream of income using sync licensing. To start out with, I'd love to just hear for anyone who this is their first time connecting with you, could you give a quick introduction where you just share a little bit about yourself and your story and how you started this business?

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I grew up in a very musical based household. So my dad, he was in the Air Force, but he also was a jazz player. So there was a lot of jazz being played in the house. We had Miles Davis, John Coltrane, all of this rich jazz culture in the household. Then on the flip side, my mom, she was a school teacher for the New York City of Board Education, but she also was heavy in the church. So there was a Pentecostal church dynamic. So a lot of Shirley Caesar, Mahalia Jackson, all this vintage gospel music. So it was a blended musical household you would say. And then as I grew, I loved hip hop. That was just the music that I loved of choice. It was music that spoke to my surroundings. I grew up in South Jamaica, Queens, New York. So the neighborhood that I grew up in, it was very rough. And the inner city neighborhood, we had a lot of narcotics being sold, a lot of violence, a gang component. So it was a lot of things that we had to deal with growing up.

Kyle Hunter:
But music was the common denominator, that was something that was therapeutic. And we used that growing up. It was expressive. So regardless of what we dealt with, we used music as a outlet. So that's how I got started into music. I just loved it. I had a real passion and drive for music. And it started out as a poetry and then just putting those words together. I started doing mix tapes in Queens. And what we used to do, we would press them up and then we would put them in the trunk of our car and we would drive around the neighborhood selling them. And then sometimes I would take the street team to Manhattan and we would go on a Saturday and everybody would just get those tapes off. So once those tapes really started making noise, I started making a lot of relationships with people up at record labels and just started performing at different shows around New York City.

Kyle Hunter:
And eventually, I got reached out to by an agent that did music licensing. And at that time that was foreign to me. I didn't know what it was. I was like, "Well, okay. It sounds viable, but I don't know how legit this is." So I gave them a handful of songs. And then I want to say maybe like three months later they gave me five to eight grand for those songs. And I said, "Wow." I said, "This is something that's viable." Mentally, I had the old school music mentality where it's like you make music and you got to get a record deal. That's the only way to make money and a living off of music. But once I got those placements, it opened up a whole new world of opportunity, because I realized you don't have to chase a record deal to make income from your music.

Kyle Hunter:
So after that, I just hit the ground running. I got hundreds of placements. Calvin Klein, Marie Claire, all these different shows, different product endorsements, something for Powerade with a LeBron James campaign, just all these different streams coming in. And eventually, we built up such a big catalog, myself and my business partner, my good friend, Robert, we just decided just to create our own company because we wanted to pay it forward. We really want to help artists. So that was the whole premise of Rhythm Couture. And we've been moving ever since. That's the small version of the story.

Michael Walker:
That's incredible, man. That's so awesome. And also just really inspiring, I think for really being able to showcase that starting out in a rough environment that you were able to really to pull through and that music was able to be a part of that expression, and that you've gone on to build a successful business is awesome. So having both been through the phases of growth yourself and now also working with this catalog, working with a lot of artists and getting songs synced and licensed, what would you say are some of the biggest common mistakes or challenges that artists make when they first start getting interested in this world of licensing?

Kyle Hunter:
Wow. It's a couple of things. By the way, that's a great question, Michael, because a lot of artists need to know this. I would say the first thing is presentation because when you're reaching out to music supervisors or music libraries, how you make your first impression sets the tone for how that person is going to receive you. So I think a lot of times, because things have become so accessible with the internet, everybody uses Google and they're like, "All right, well, let me look up who the music supervisor is for this show and I'm going to send a DM. I'm going to find them on Instagram, I'm going to send them a DM."

Kyle Hunter:
But I think you have to be cognizant of the fact that these people, including myself, our DMs, our inboxes get flooded all the time with people with the same thing, and that's they have a want, which is natural. You want to get your music heard. But I think the best approach, a lot of times to negate that, would be to do your due diligence. If you know that you're a hiphop musician and you're reaching out to a music supervisor but you haven't researched the type of placements that they do, maybe that's not there genre particularly that they try to cater to. Maybe it's a rock based type theme that they constantly feed. So do your homework.

Kyle Hunter:
When you reach out to a company or a music supervisor say, "Hey, you know what? I just want to let you know, I'm a fan of your work. I've seen that you've placed music in Friends or The Handmaid's Tale and I love your work. And I have a song that sounds like the song that you used in season two, episode three. And I would love to see if you could check it out and possibly we can work together." That negates the approach out the gate that you're just shooting blindly, that shows that you've done your due diligence to know who exactly you're talking to and that you have a target get in mind. And then you have a mutual interest at that point. So just always do your due diligence. I would say that's the pitfall a lot of artists don't do.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, and it's funny, across a lot of these different domains, especially when it comes to reaching out for press or media outlets or anything like that, which is our topics that we've talked about, that same sort of... That underlying fundamental, that principle keeps coming out, which is really about making things relevant, as relevant as possible for the people that you're talking to and making it valuable and streamlined and personalized.

Kyle Hunter:
And Michael, I just wanted to piggyback off of what you just said too. You said valuable, and that's key. Adding value. As soon as you send that DM or that email, just realize that now you started the process of a business transaction and unfortunately it is business. So you have to show to that person you're adding value, you're bringing value to what they already have. So that's key. You got to show your worth and show them that you're adding something.

Michael Walker:
Absolutely. Yeah, that's one of those fundamental skills or assets that no matter what you're doing, in any sort of conversation or relationship or negotiation or transaction, focusing on, "How can I provide more value?" And in some cases, I think as musicians, there's sort of this we don't necessarily recognize our value or our self worth, or we think that our music isn't really worth anything, or we just don't really fully comprehend our value. And because of that, we don't communicate in a way that demonstrates that what we have is valuable. That's really interesting.

Michael Walker:
So what else would you say that the happens pretty commonly in terms of some of the biggest challenges when artists are starting out? I guess one question is what's the best way to find the right... So we talked about making sure that we've done the due diligence and done some research, make sure that you understand that the song that you're presenting is actually something that's going to be valuable, that is relevant. So something that they might need. How do they do that type of research and what do you recommend that they look for in order to make sure that who they're reaching out to is the right person and that they can present that in a meaningful way?

Kyle Hunter:
Most definitely. And that's another great question. I would say, I use the cheat code. That's what I tell musicians to do. And the cheat code basically is that if you watch a television show, if you watch movies, whatever it is that you watch, I always tell people for musicians that are trying to get their music into sync, the end of the show or the end of the movie is the most critical. So you have to sit there and you have to pay attention to those credits because when you watch those credits, it's going to show you who the music supervisor is for that show.

Kyle Hunter:
So if there's a show that you watch and you notice there's a musicality with the theme, meaning that if you're an R&B artist and they have like real neo soul type music and you feel that you can fit that, you want to pay attention to those credits because the credits are going to show you who that music supervisor is. And then if you can't really get what you want from that, maybe you might want to go to IMDB or something like that. And you can also do more due diligence to make sure that you get what you need. So paying attention to those credits is key. And I always say that's a cheat code. Because it's so easy. They have to list it, right? They're going to list who worked on this show. So that's something that's a good method or good approach, I would say.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Awesome. So really it's about figuring out who are the music supervisors on the shows that have the kind of music that you offer. You can look at the credits, you can go to IMDB. Awesome. So how about when it comes to the process of reaching out and cultivating relationships with those people, how would you recommend... Let's say that someone wants to do this and they start making a list of people to reach out to, and then maybe even they start reaching out. Do you have any sort of regular reach out process or how many times you might follow up? Or do you recommend following up? And if so, how often should you follow up and what kind of things should you say when you're following up?

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. So follow up is key. I have a saying, it's my mantra. So my mantra is, "Persistence wears down resistance." So essentially, even if you come upon some form of resistance, you have to be persistent with what you want, but in a professional way, not an annoying way. And there's a big difference between the two. So I would say just being aware that music supervisors, music licensing companies, we're very busy and we get a lot of emails. Just full disclosure, my company in the course of a month, we could get hundreds of demos. So even though I have an A&R that does that, it's very easy for him to get overwhelmed with all the submissions that he has to listen to and try to process to see, "Well, what fits the catalog? What really doesn't fit the catalog at the moment, but it's good? So maybe a couple months down the road we'll reach back out."

Kyle Hunter:
So I would say just actually being patient and being strategic. So if you submit something, I would say give it about anywhere from two to three weeks, realistically, and then you just want to follow up with a soft email. And I have to emphasize soft email, not aggressive, right? "I sent some music and you guys didn't get back to me." That's a turnoff in itself. But being professional to say, "Hey, I appreciate the opportunity to submit music to your catalog. And I would just like to follow up to check on the status of that. Thank you for your time in advance." You're not aggressive with your tone. You're being appreciative of the time that's being spent to listen to your music. And you're just being straightforward that you just want to follow up. There's no harm in that. It's all on the approach. That's the most thing.

Michael Walker:
That's good. Yeah. And one thing to reiterate just about his approach right there was, for anyone listening right now is, notice how he started and ended with gratitude, with appreciation. Such a graceful way to follow up. And I think it's pretty rare, anything can happen, but it's pretty rare for people to respond poorly to appreciation. Unless it's like fake. You don't want to necessarily just be false or just like be... I don't know what the right word is. There's plenty of words that are basically like being false. [crosstalk 00:15:00]. Right. Exactly. So you want it to be authentic, but learning how to cultivate authentic gratitude and appreciation and find out how to be graceful on the way that you present that, it's very rare that it's going to rub people in the wrong way if you have genuine gratitude. All of us want to feel appreciated and feel recognized.

Kyle Hunter:
Most definitely. It's saying too, it says, being humble will take you places that money can't. So you can be a multi-millionaire, but you could be a jerk and just be despised by many people. But being humble, having humility and showing that you're appreciative, that speaks volume. And to me, that's more powerful than someone who's arrogant and pompous and just filled with themselves.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. So could you talk a little bit about right now it seems like there's a few different pathways or different opportunities or different ways that if you're an artist with music that you could pursue trying to get syncs and get your song's licensed, for example, maybe you could make a list and try reaching out directly to music supervisors, or you could work with a company or an agency or find somewhere that aligns with you to do some of that for you. What are some of the different opportunities or different channels that the artists here could take? And what are some of the pros and cons of each way?

Kyle Hunter:
Oh yeah, without a doubt. Without a doubt. And that's a great question. I do a lot of interviews but, Michael, you have some of the questions. I got to give it to you.

Michael Walker:
Thanks, man. I've been going for like two and a half days now, and it helps that when I'm rubbing shoulders with people like you, I think that it's no secret, the mastermind principle and if you surround yourself with awesome people then... So that's just a reflection of your awesomeness, basically is what I'm trying is say.

Kyle Hunter:
That's awesome, man. That's awesome. I appreciate you, man. I appreciate you. Like I say, your network is your net worth. So that's dope. That's dope, man. So a couple of things. Any musician that's trying to get into music licensing, there are a lot of different avenues. I'll break them down. The first approach is a music licensing library like our company. But what we do, we're essentially... I would say we're like the mediator between the music supervisor and the musician. So we have these relationships and throughout the years we've provided them with great music, we have a solid business relationship, so they trust us. And because they trust us, we're able to filter musicians through our company to them as well. Or we just do the pitches ourselves, either way. We have all these different like relationships.

Kyle Hunter:
So a musician can sign with a music licensing library. What those agreements look like, for any musician that's not too familiar with those contracts, you have exclusive agreements. Then you also have non exclusive agreements. So non exclusive agreement means essentially that you have the right to take that song and place it with multiple music libraries. And you're not obligated to keep it in one library. What that does on a pro side, it gives you freedom. You can actually have that song in as many places as you want working for you. And you're not married. You could think of a non exclusive agreement as dating, right? You're not married. You can go anywhere, see anybody you want and do what you got to do.

Kyle Hunter:
The con about that is that a lot of times musicians don't do their due diligence when it comes to the agreements. So I give you your perfect example. Some non exclusive agreements, even though they'll allow you to be in multiple libraries, some of them might put your music in their Content ID. And that's where it gets very, very sticky. Now, if anyone listening is not familiar with Content ID, I'll break that down too. Content ID is basically a digital fingerprint for your music. So that means if someone was to upload your song to their fitness video on YouTube without your permission, it would get flagged. And when that video gets flagged, essentially what that means is that you would get paid for all the streams or whatever happens every time that video gets played.

Kyle Hunter:
Now, when a music licensing library puts your song in Content ID, that presents a challenge for the other music licensing libraries. Because now let's say, if they get sure song in a Pepsi commercial and it's a digital campaign, every time that that's posted on YouTube, they're going to get these Content ID claims and they have to get cleared by none other than the other music licensing company that put it in the Content ID. So you can imagine if the placement has a big magnitude and it's getting millions of streams, that can become a hassle because now that other music licensing library is going to say, "Hey, we don't want to work with you anymore. Granted, it's not exclusive, but you're not even managing the fact that this song is in Content ID, that's causing problems for us." So that's where non exclusive and Content ID you can get a little dicey.

Kyle Hunter:
On the flip side, you have exclusive music licensing agreements. And normally what I've found with the exclusive is that those are a little bit different because obviously you can't have that song in multiple music libraries. You're saying to that company, "Hey, Rhythm Couture, I'm giving you guys the exclusive right to pitch this song for a selected term." So whether it's a one year term, two year term, you're basically entrusting that company to do the right thing and get that song out there. I found that exclusive agreements sometimes tend to pay more because when you're shopping that song, that's a hook for a music supervisor or companies to say, "Hey, listen, this song is not in multiple libraries. So if you license this, it's not like it's been used a thousand times before. This is like something that's very exclusive to you."

Kyle Hunter:
So it's more attractive. An exclusive agreement is like a marriage, right? This is exclusive, we're doing this, it's us two making this work. So those are the options that musicians have. But then outside of those two, you can actually try to do it yourself, which I never discourage anybody from pursuing that path because anything's possible. I don't believe in the word, "No." Or, "You can't." Like I said, persistence wears down resistance. You put your mind to it, you can achieve it. So you can do it yourself where you're doing what I said, you'll look at the credits and you'll get the information for the music supervisors. You'll reach out to them on your own. However, it is more challenging, full disclosure, because like I said, hundreds of people reach out to these people every day and the inboxes look crazy.

Kyle Hunter:
So you're going up against this tide of competition, as opposed to going through a licensing library that already has that preexisting relationship. We cosign the artist like, "Hey, this artist is very talented. You need to listen to this. And by the way, what type of music are you looking for so we can check out our roster? Oh, you want a rock artist? Oh, well, we have such and such who's very talented." So I kind of like, I would say, you're getting skipped to the front of the line when you go through a music licensing library. So essentially those are the different methods or approaches that can be used.

Michael Walker:
All right. Let's take a quick break from the podcast so I can tell you about a free special offer that we're doing right now, exclusively for our podcast listeners. So if you get a ton of value from the show, but you want to take your music career to the next level, connect with the community of driven musicians and connect with the music mentors directly that we have on this podcast, or if you just want to know the best way to market your music and grow an audience right now, then this is going to be perfect for you. So right now, we're offering a free two week trial to our MusicMentor coaching program. And if you sign up in the show notes below, you're going to get access to our entire MusicMentor content vault for free. The vault's organized into four different content pillars. The first being the music, then the artist, the fans and, last but not least, the business.

Michael Walker:
When you sign up, you unlock our best in-depth master classes from a network of world class musicians and industry experts on the most cutting edge strategies right now for growing your music business. On top of that, you'll get access to our weekly live masterminds, where our highest level of modern musician coaches teach you exactly what they're doing to make an income and an impact with their music. Then once a month, we're going to have our Music Mentor Spotlight Series. And that's what we're going to bring on some the world's biggest and best artist coaches and successful musicians to teach you what's working right now. And one of the most amazing parts is that you can get your questions answered live by these top level music mentors. So a lot of the people that you hear right here on the podcast, they're live interacting with you personally. So imagine being able to connect them directly.

Michael Walker:
On top of all that you'll get access to our private MusicMentor community. And this is definitely one of my favorite parts of MusicMentor, and maybe the most valuable, is that you're going to have this community where you can network with other artists and link up, collaborate, ask questions, get support, and discuss everything related to your music career. So if you're curious and you want to take advantage of the free trial, then go click on the link in the show notes right now and you can sign up for free. From there, you can check out all of the amazing content, connect with the community, and sign up for the live masterclass that happen every week. This is a gift for listen to our podcast and supporting the show. So don't miss it out. Go sign up for free and let's get back to our interview.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So it sounds like when it comes to finding a library, there's sort of like a filter, they're a filter for supervisors where they get much more distilled, focused artists that they have over preexisting relationship, which just makes it quite a bit easier to be able to connect with those music advisors. It's not like it's impossible to reach out to them on your own and to build those relationships, but it's going to be a lot easier to find a company that already has those preexisting relationships. And for a lot of times for music supervisors, it's preferable to have this catalog. So to know that they're having those pre-filtered tastes down so that they know that there's going to be some really high quality and they don't have to spend as much time digging through stuff.

Kyle Hunter:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And it filters out the headaches. Because when you're a company, and we've encountered this with our company too, when you take on new artists a lot of times there is a factor of being unpredictable. You don't know what you're getting into. They can present well, the music can be great. And then all of a sudden it's like this person just becomes a headache. So a lot of times, music supervisors don't even want to deal with that. It's kind of like a vetting process. It's like, "All right, you've been through this music licensing company. They co-sign you and all the artists that we've dealt with have been professional. All right. We trust this process." So yeah, that's pretty much what it is.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So let's say that someone here is interested in finding the right publishing company for them. How would you recommend that they research and find the right library, find the right place for their music?

Kyle Hunter:
Compile a list. A lot of times, Google can be your best friend. I would say put the top music licensing companies or top publishing companies, whatever it is that you're looking for. And once you go Google that, once you get that list, then you do your due diligence and you go through each company, go through the different websites, see what the company is about. Even read the reviews for these companies. Because the thing about artists, artists are very vocal. If we don't like something, we're going to write a crappy review. So if a company's not good, chances are you're going to see really bad reviews online like, "Hey, this company, they're only giving artists 30%. They're taking 70% of the cut." So look at that. Look at those reviews and look at those splits too.

Kyle Hunter:
Because a lot of companies don't do a lot of great splits sometimes. There's some that do some really great splits and then there's some that say, "Hey, you know what? We're the company, we're getting a placement. We'll take all your publishing and we'll give you the writer share, but also we're going to take 70% of any revenue." And that's like, "What? That's crazy." So yeah, do your due diligence. Use Google, check out the top licensing companies. Look at their roster too. I've had musicians DM me from old companies that I used to deal with, that had music in their catalog, and they would say, "Hey, I saw that you had music in this library and I don't want to be forward, but I just want to ask your advice before I reach out to them, what was your experience like?"

Kyle Hunter:
And that's a real question. Who could be mad at that? They want to avoid those pitfalls. So that's a trick too. You can reach out to musicians and ask them like, "Hey, are you having a positive experience with this company?" And nine times out of 10, people will be honest. They have no reason to lie. They'll say, "Hey, this is a great company." Or they say, "No, it's hard times over here."

Michael Walker:
Right. So do you think that when it comes to finding the right music library, should you also consider things like the genre of music, or do you think that that's not as important as other or things to distinguish? What are the traits that you would look for in a good music library?

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, so I would say the traits, well, the first thing, like we discussed before, is you want to look at compatibility. So you want to make sure that that library is able to successfully pitch the type of music that you do. So when you go to their music section, it's going to show you who are their top players. Because they'll normally focus on those players. They'll have their pictures and they'll have their highlights. "Oh, we placed them on Insecure. And we got this show and that show." These are like their marque artists. So you want to look at that and compare your music against theirs and say, all right, if they're able to be successful with these artists, and if you have music that is on that same wavelength, well, then you know the practicality is there. It's like, "All right I'm going to pitch them because chances are they'll have a success rate with the type of music that I create." So that's one thing.

Kyle Hunter:
Another thing to look at is, like they always say, the devil's in the details. So you want to look at what you're signing. A lot of times, musicians are so passionate with their craft that they don't really pay attention to the business side. And unfortunately that's how a lot of artists get taken advantage of. So you have to really pay attention to those agreements. And I always say look at the term. I had one time a company presented an agreement, and after we reviewed it, I'm like, "There's no term on this contract. Where's the term?' They conveniently left out the term. And then when we addressed it with them, they said, "Oh yeah, because yeah, it's in perpetuity."

Kyle Hunter:
So these are the type of pitfalls you have to be aware of because you're signing this. And anytime you sign it, you're legally bound to this agreement. And I always say make sure that there's a term specified on your agreement because sometimes things can start out really good and then end really bad. And then sometimes they can start a little shaky and end really good. But regardless of what the circumstance is, you always want to make sure that you have an out in case you need it. You don't want to be married and stuck to a company or have a song that's amazing and then you have a company come along with a great opportunity and say, "Hey, we want to give you such and such amount of dollars for this song." And it's an amazing opportunity, but you're stuck in some crappy contract that's in perpetuity and you can't take advantage of the opportunity that's in front of you. So always read those details. That's pertinent.

Michael Walker:
Oh man. Yeah, that's crazy that they tried to slip one in there.

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, tried to slip a Mickey.

Michael Walker:
Try to slip a Mickey. So how about, we've got a lot of questions coming in from the audience here. So how about we actually go to some Q&A and be able to answer some questions from people who are tuning it in.

Kyle Hunter:
Awesome.

Michael Walker:
And also if you're watching this right now and you have any questions for Kyle that you'd like to ask, then now is the time for you to get your questions answered. So let's first start with, "Do you recommend writing in your own style? Or should you adjust your style to fit a genre that works for sync? Are there any particular styles or genres that you found or more popular for sync placement?"

Kyle Hunter:
Wow. That's a great question. So the first component of that question was, "Do you recommend writing in your own style or adjusting it?" And I always say that the best thing do is to be true to you and who you are. But you can always tell when a song is being forced and it's not specifically what an artist does. So we've all had that experience. I'm a music fan, I've loved music and I've had some of my favorite musicians make terrible music where I'm like, "Why did they make that record? That's not what they do." It just doesn't sound genuine. So I think always remain true to yourself. Write the music that's true to you and the right opportunities will come. And the worst thing that you want to do is write a record that's not true to you and it blows up. And now you're a slave to this record that it's not true, and now you have to keep up this facade.

Kyle Hunter:
Now that side, there's a difference between that and then someone who's eclectic. Now, an individual that's eclectic musically, they have that capability to make multiple genres, multiple styles. And that's awesome. So if you're able to do that, then by all means, venture out to different type of styles. Because I always say that people have said that the quantity versus quality debate has always been a big deal in music, right? The ability of someone to actually put out a large quantity of music without sacrificing the quality of the content. And I tell musicians all the time, as far as music licensing, the more music you have in the pool, the more successful you'll be.

Kyle Hunter:
That's just what it is. The guy that has three songs that it took him three years to make, his success rate might not be as great as a person that's prolific and they have 1,000 songs and they're all good. So you can actually manage the two, focus on quality and quantity at the same time. And the last component of that question was, is there a specific genre that I find that music supervisors have asked us for a lot? It has been recently big cinematic hip hop. So records that sound big, they have big buildups, big drops that are really in your face, that's really what they've been looking for lately. Slow tempo stuff, not so much, to be honest with you. They'd be really wanting these big records. So that's really what we've been dealing with lately.

Michael Walker:
Cool. I love that. There's so much wisdom just shared in that. There's three good questions within one question, they're all really good. Writing in your own style. Yeah, that reminds me of Michael Elsner described what you talked about with the you can tell when it's just not authentic and they're kind of trying to... It's like a bad actor. If someone's acting, they're reading their lines, you can just tell something [inaudible 00:33:55] cut it off. It just doesn't feel doesn't feel authentic. Doesn't feel right.

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
Cool. Good stuff. So next question asked, "I know a lot of agreements have one to three terms and a lot of them automatically renew. How long would you give a music library or a sync agent to place the song? At what point would you end the agreement if no placements have been secured yet?"

Kyle Hunter:
I would say that's a case by case basis. And I'll tell you why. Sometimes it can be a slow burn with music licensing. So if I sign an agreement for a two or three year term, I would let it run its course because I would like to see what they're able to do. Now at the end of three years, if they weren't able to do anything, it depends on the term of the agreement. So it goes back to what we said before where the devils in the details. If this is a non exclusive agreement, then it's not hurting you to have that music in that library, because you can have that music in multiple libraries. So you never know, it could be your fourth year and you get a placement for 20 grand. We get these opportunities all the time. There was one two months ago for like 50 grand for one song. These are the types of opportunities. But you have to be in it to win it. So if it's a non exclusive agreement, I would say, let it rock. It's not hurting you.

Kyle Hunter:
Now, if it was an exclusive agreement and you've had this song in this catalog for three years and they've done nothing for you, then maybe it's not the right music placement company for you and you would want to take it out there. Or you might say to them, "Hey, you know what? Can we switch this to a non-exclusive agreement because I would like to make this music available in other music licensing pools to increase my chances of landing a placement." It's all business. It's always a business transaction. And always remember, do what's in your best interest. The goal is to get your music heard and to get your music placed. So don't be spiteful. I know artists a lot of times they can get spiteful and say, "Oh man, it's been two years they ain't did nothing." But things take time. Things take time sometimes.

Michael Walker:
For sure. Yeah. That's been one of the reoccurring themes throughout the conference as well, just the ability to be patient and to have a long term view. And if you're planting seeds, to nurture those seeds and give them the opportunity to blossom and sprout and not necessarily be digging it up and checking, "Is this growing yet? Why isn't this is growing yet?" Oh, it's because you keep digging it up. You got to let it

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, that's right. And you know what too, Michael, that's society. I feel like social media plays a large part in that, which is terrible. Everything is so quick. It's like quick, quick microwave. And everybody's on social media and people are constantly comparing themselves. I tell people comparison is the thief of joy. So you can't compare your chapter one to someone's chapter 12. Every time you log into Instagram and if you see other musicians getting placements, don't be discouraged. It's just their time and your time will come too, but you have to be patient. Haste makes waste.

Michael Walker:
So good, man. There's a few one liners you just dropped in there that really. You can't compare your chapter one to someone else's chapter 12.

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
That's good. It's so true. And it's also one of the things that I think happens a lot just in so many different domains. And like you said, with social media especially it's so easy to compare yourself constantly to someone who's ahead of you. And try not to act as if you're already on chapter 12 when you're on chapter one, and to feel ashamed of being on chapter one when it's like, "No, there's nothing wrong with that. It's okay to be on chapter one and to fully embrace that and go to chapter two." But just trying to skip to chapter 12 is a recipe for disaster.

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, definitely, definitely. And appreciate your journey too. Everybody has a story, so be appreciative of your journey and where you're at and just take it day by day.

Michael Walker:
So good. All right. So next question. "I have a question as an artist, when you release a song under your artist's name, can you also place it for sync? Are there any issues or roadblocks with doing that, Content ID problems?"

Kyle Hunter:
Of course. Yeah, as long as the song, you don't have it tied up in any agreement. So for example, sometimes artists sign independent record deals. It might not necessarily be a major label, but even the independent labels, they have certain stipulations in their contract. So if that song is exclusive to them, then they might be looking to pitch it, which could be a conflict for you. So you have look at your agreement. Now, if you're just totally independent, and let's say you're just putting music out through TuneCore or DistroKid, or just one of these digital distributors yourself, then you're good. I would just say be mindful of their Content ID as well because DistroKid, TuneCore, all these digital distributors, they have a Content ID feature. And a lot of times when artists distribute their music, they don't pay attention, they'll just check off all the boxes. And then now their music's in Content ID, they're getting these flags and they don't know why.

Kyle Hunter:
So yeah, just be cognizant of that. But you can release music yourself and still put it in music licensing. And that's the beautiful thing about it. You can have active income, passive income, portfolio income from music because you're selling it yourself, you're getting your own streams, you're getting placements. And then, because you're getting these placements, the popularity of the music explodes. So now you're getting income on the front end and the back end. So that's the name of the game, generating multiple income streams. So you're not working so hard, your music is working for you.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. So when someone's uploading their songs to DistroKid or to TuneCore or any of these platforms, let's say that someone is watching this right now and they're getting ready to release a new song and they're like, "Okay, watching this conference, heard Kyle talk. This was awesome. I definitely wanted to figure this part out. I want to start planting the seeds to get my songs licensed." Would you recommend that they click the box that says Content ID on DistroKid? Or would you recommend that they keep it off if they're planning on getting ready to shop out the songs to different libraries?

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, I would definitely keep it off because it just makes things very difficult for the music licensing company. Because you have to look at it like this. If a company reaches out and they say, "Hey, we love this song. We want to pay $5,000 to use this song." They've essentially purchased the right to use this song. So if they're doing digital campaigns and it's constantly getting flagged with Content ID, what it does is it ruffles feathers. So the company that paid that money, they're now looking at the company like, "Hey, what's going on with your artist? Why are we getting flagged for this and we paid for this?" And then now what it does is it leaves a bad taste in their mouth in regards to not only the company, but also the artists. Because now they're like, "Well, you know what? We'd rather not deal with this company and this artist. We'd rather deal with this company over here because we never have these kind of problems."

Kyle Hunter:
So just being mindful and being cognizant of the fact that you don't want to ruffle feathers. This industry is very much so relationship based and your name holds weight. And you want to make sure that even when your name is brought up in rooms that you're not present that the conversation and the dialogue is always progressive, it's always positive, it's always like, "Oh, I know this artist. Yeah, their music is great. We don't have any issues with them." That's the kind of conversation you want. Any type of unnecessary misunderstandings or conflicts, you want to avoid that at all costs.

Michael Walker:
For sure. And when it comes to Content ID too, if I remember right, you're not really missing out on that much in terms of like... How much do you realistically get paid from Content ID, if your song is featured on a YouTube video, for example, and it gets let's say a million views on YouTube?

Kyle Hunter:
Yeah, the Content ID, the payouts for that are nominal at best. And you're not really looking at a lot of money, so you really want to look at the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is that you want to be compensated fairly for your music while building successful relationships in the process. So we don't look at small money, we look at big money and that's just how we move. And I tell my artists all the time, "See the bigger picture. Don't think about getting a royalty statement for Content ID from TuneCore for like $2.50 for the entire month. What is that doing?" That can't even get you a cup of coffee.

Michael Walker:
Right.

Kyle Hunter:
You know what I'm saying? So see the bigger picture.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, exactly. And just for a reference point, do you know, is that number roughly what it usually is? It's like a few bucks? Let's say that someone does have their song on a YouTube video that just happens to get a million streams. Do you know roughly what that might equate to?

Kyle Hunter:
The specific numbers on that, I don't know. But I know what the payouts look like, and they are not worth it at all. It has to be something that's really, really substantial to even see... It's kind of like when you look at the streaming numbers for Spotify and all these other things. You need a lot. It takes a lot of streams and all these different things just to get a decent size payout. And that's why I always say, "Lean on the side of common sense. If you're presented with this opportunity to get 5-10,000 for one song, it's a no-brainer. You know?

Michael Walker:
100%. That's such a valuable concept I think to understand too. For anyone here who's early on or starting out, maybe doesn't have a giant audience yet or doesn't have 1,000 or 10,000 engaged fans, is that it's going to be a lot harder to make a serious revenue, to make serious income from making like $1 or $2, per fan, or offering a merch item for $10. You have to sell like a lot of those merch items in order to make it sustainable. But if you have something on the high end, you can get one of your songs synced or placed for $5,000, $10,000. Or what we're finding right now with a lot of our artists, when it comes to their original music is actually having higher ticket offers for $3,000, $5,000 for a custom songwriting experience or something with a fan, then you could have like 100 or 200 fans in your audience when you're just starting out and you can sell a few of those high ticket offers and you can make some serious revenue and you're not going to be selling $10,000 worth of $10 items unless you have a pretty significant audience.

Michael Walker:
So I think that there's a lot of wisdom in what you're talking about. Especially earlier on when you're just starting out, you have to have a sharp edge. So it's smaller but you're going really deep with those people.

Kyle Hunter:
Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. And like we said before, it's about working smarter, not working harder, as far as even the whole concept of performing. And I think COVID really showed that to a lot of people. A lot of musicians were affected because touring was a large part of their income. And when that got diminished, people had to start to get creative. So they had to find other ways to generate income. And that's the beautiful thing about music licensing that I fell in love with is you don't have to be physically present to make money. Your music goes places and it makes money for you. And that's the name of the game. Even when people talk about financial literacy and investing in stocks, that's the name of the game. You want your money to work for you and make money for you. So it's this same thing. Take that same approach with your music. You want your music to make revenue for you, even when you're sleeping. Want your music to be in your music to be in rooms that you're not, but it's still generating income.

Michael Walker:
That's so smart, yeah. So talked a little bit about this with, with Michael, but the idea of assets and the book Rich Dad Poor Dad, and how it's kind of like having a rental property, but your music is really an asset and, like you're saying, can appreciate and value and it can bring you income. So building this catalog is super valuable.

Kyle Hunter:
Definitely. Definitely. Most definitely.

Michael Walker:
Cool, man. Well, hey, dude, it's always a pleasure to talk with you. Really appreciate you taking the time to come on here and share some of the lessons and the wisdom and the knowledge that you've learned. For anyone here who is interested in connecting more or diving deeper or learning from you, what's the best place for them to go to to get more connected?

Kyle Hunter:
Oh, most definitely. So they can go to our company's website, rhythmcouture.com. They can find us on Instagram @rhythmcouturebiz. And yeah, we're just all always looking forward to connect with dynamic, great people. And yeah, this year has been great for us. We're just continuing to grow and make just dynamic moves as a company. So this is awesome, man. Appreciate the time, man.

Michael Walker:
All right, Kyle, you're the man. Really appreciate it. Hope you have a great rest of your weekend.

Kyle Hunter:
Same to you. Same to you, man. Always a pleasure, Michael. Always a pleasure, man.

Michael Walker:
Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about the guest today. And if you want to support the podcast, then there's a few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe, then that'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends or on your social media, tag us. That really helps us out. And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take their music careers to the next level. The time to be a modern musician is now, and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.