Kristine Mirelle:
It's just really important that people really think about their life and not feel ashamed about it. That's been a huge thing. And I've done so many live webinars with people where I'm literally crying because people are sharing their story with me and I'm sharing my story with them. And just to see that people feel so much weight off of their chest and their spirit saying, "Wait, I don't have to pretend? I can just be myself?" And there's lots of strength in that, lots of strength.

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high quality music but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month, without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker:
All right. And we're here live with Kristine Mirelle. Hey, Kristine, how are you doing today?

Kristine Mirelle:
I'm doing really well. How are you, Michael?

Michael Walker:
Doing awesome. So Kristine, a little bit of an introduction, she's an independent artist herself. She's made it into the top 10 finalists on the show X Factor. Performed non-major commercials like Mercedes Benz, Heineken. Performed the National Anthem in the LA Dodgers stadium. And she's been featured on media outlets like Fox, NBC CW, Maxim. And, really, what we're here to talk about today is how a normal person, if they position their story in the right way, can have these opportunities to get these kinds of placements. And, really, all of it depends on the way that you craft your story and how you share it and making sure it's relevant.

Michael Walker:
So Kristine, you're awesome. Thanks for being part of the summit this year.

Kristine Mirelle:
Thank you so much for asking, I'm excited, this is my first time.

Michael Walker:
It is. We're going to rock it. So, to start out with, I'd love for anyone here who hasn't connected with you yet, if you could just share a quick introduction about your story, how you got started and how you got featured in all those publications.

Kristine Mirelle:
Sure. So, I'm from a really small town in New Mexico, really small town of like 8000 people. I grew up raising pigs, all my friends were farmers, I mean, just very far from the music industry. So everything that I've done in my life has been just the result of really just building from scratch, blood, sweat, and tears just really starting from nothing. And that's been a good thing, it's been a blessing because I've been able to learn how to do everything myself rather than having things handed to me.

Kristine Mirelle:
With that way, sometimes you don't really learn anything and you don't become self-sufficient. So, I grew up again mowing lawns and farmer life. And I always had this dream of doing music. And I didn't know that you could build a career as an independent. I thought you were either wildly famous or you were just homeless and broke. I didn't know that there was this in between where you could make a good living and that you could be on really cool networks, like Fox, NBC, CBS, and those types of things.

Kristine Mirelle:
I thought you had to spend money and that's a reality for a lot of people. But there's all these little hats. And for me, I was always like, "Man, how do I burst through that wall that everyone's built? How do I kind of disrupt what everyone thinks?" And one big thing just like you talked about, was realizing that there's something very powerful about sharing your story. And your story doesn't have to be one of like, "Hey, I just sold a million albums," because that's cool and everything. But I always tell everyone, I'm like, I find it more interesting, I always ask them, "What would make you want to read an article about me? The fact that I raised pigs and used to sing on doorsteps and got door slammed in my face and slept in my car and all this stuff. Or that I'm working with a platinum producer."

Kristine Mirelle:
Because those both could be reality, but what's going to make someone really want to be engaged with you. And that's what I realized. So, I realized that all those things that a lot of people think are our weaknesses, that whole fake it till you make it, pretend that you're successful, that that can actually work against you. And that people actually really love who you are as a person and they love to figure out and find out that you're human. So, kind of throughout my journey, I've just always been really ... I found a lot of strength in that and sharing my upbringing.

Kristine Mirelle:
We're a Mexican family, my mom comes from ... She had me when she was 17 and immigrant from Mexico and just sharing those things, how we grew up living off of $100 a week. How we lived in government housing, just all of those things. And then the music, then people want to hear the music. Because they're going, "Who's this person that has done all these things that comes from this background? Now, I want to check out what she created," rather than jumping in and just saying, "Hey, I'm really good singer, you should listen to my music." There's just such a great thing about being human and finding strength in some of those things that maybe some people are ashamed about or embarrassed about coming from kind of scratch.

Kristine Mirelle:
I come from New Mexico and now I've been all over the world now. I've traveled six continents and performed thousands of shows around the world. So, it's been a pretty wild journey. But it's been awesome.

Michael Walker:
That's super awesome. And thanks for sharing that. What a great reminder of how important it is to ... Actually how it can be a strength starting out from scratch, starting out in things that were considered weaknesses, because I mean, yeah, if you think about it, it wouldn't be a very good story if there was no transformation, right? You wouldn't watch Harry Potter, read Harry Potter and it's just like, Harry Potter was the most powerful wizard in the world, and he ...

Kristine Mirelle:
Always was, always will be.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. No, that's not really how it works. And it seems like one thing that you just pointed to was really about the power of a good story, and how a good story in a lot of cases is really about transformation. And so, some of the things that you might be going through right now, if you're at that point where you're really struggling or you're going through a difficult time with a little bit of perspective and a lot of your work that you can transmute that into one of your greatest blessings.

Kristine Mirelle:
A big thing is, I lived in my car and I tell people about how I bathe in a gas station and I mean just madness, chaos, as I was pursuing music. And those things, those stories and I think that I meet so many artists that are ashamed of those things and they're scared, and they feel like this weight that they have to pretend that they're this successful artist that's doing all these big things. And whenever I kind of break it down and I start sharing, "Well, guess what, people loved it when I shared my story, people loved it when I was really transparent, because then they want to join you, they see you as a human, they see that you're something that they want to support."

Kristine Mirelle:
And I always tell everyone, I'm like, "If you were pitching your music or your story to a news station, what's more interesting to them? And imagine if they were like, "And next up, Sarah Smith is a really good singer. You're not going to want to miss this." That's not going to keep someone watching. But imagine if someone's like homeless artists records album while living in her van, listen to songs from my Dodge now," or something like that. Then you're like, "Oh, she recorded this whole album in a van." And this is an extreme example.

Kristine Mirelle:
But I use that because I have worked with lots of artists that were in that same position that literally come on my webinars and they're like, "I'm living in a tent in the forest." Just in these situations or working a job they don't like or just going through the stresses of life, and saying like, "This is a strength for you," or the fact that I'm a single mom and I share that with everybody and I share that I'm changing diapers in between recording music. Those types of things, those are challenges. But that's a great story. Single mom changes diapers and then hits the stage in front of a thousand people, or whatever it is.

Kristine Mirelle:
I would want to read that rather than here's this perfect person, just winning at life, and always has. There's no climax for that. That's not a script if you think of your life as a movie. It's just really important that people really think about their life and not feel ashamed about it. That's been a huge thing. And I've done so many live webinars with people where I'm literally crying because people are sharing their story with me, and I'm sharing my story with them. And just to see that people feel so much weight off of their chest and their spirit saying, "Wait, I don't have to pretend? I can just be myself?" And there's lots of strength in that, lots of strength.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. Yeah. That is so powerful. And it's kind of a funny paradox that those things that we tend to be most ashamed of, the things that we're so scared of being seen are the things that tend to be the things that really become huge blessings or things that help us to relate or empathize or have compassion for others and really can become a source of strength. I think all of us, as humans and as artists, this is almost like a never ending journey of honing in who we are and our through line and our story and figure out how to communicate that in a way that helps us relate with people.

Michael Walker:
For me, with starting as a musician and growing this business and also at Paradise Fears it was over time really good at telling our story because you had to tell it over and over and over again and you learn how to communicate it more effectively to more new people you meet, the more times you tell it, the more little snippets and the different things that start to come out.

Michael Walker:
But I remember starting out and kind of feeling like, "I don't have a story to tell. Who am I? What's my story? What's unique about it?" So, I'm wondering, what your recommendations would be for anyone who's here who's kind of interested in refining kind of figuring out what is it that is really compelling or relatable? Or what is it that makes me attractive to media outlets and what kind of stories? How can I start to dig deeper and find those stories?

Kristine Mirelle:
Yeah, that's a great question. And I meet a lot of people that are like, "I don't have a story. I'm boring." And everyone does. And the thing is like, let's say, you want to get on television or radio, that sort of thing, there's a couple things that you can do. So first, before you think about your story and everything, there needs to be an event. And the event would be that you're releasing a single, you're releasing an album, you're going on tour, whatever it is, you're opening up for such and such artists. There has to be something that's newsworthy, because again it can't just be, "Hey, I'm a really good singer." That's not it. That's not a news. That's not a headline.

Kristine Mirelle:
So, when you think of your life as like a headline. So can you think about, okay, first what do I want to promote? So, if it's a single or music video, or that sort of thing, you think about that. Then you start thinking about how that story relates to your life. So, you might start writing down one, what's interesting about you? And that can be your upbringing. Like for myself, I talk about how I was raised by pigs, I mean, raised by pigs, how I raised pigs. That's an even more interesting story.

Michael Walker:
Wow. This story just got way more interesting.

Kristine Mirelle:
How I was raised by pigs in the jungle. It was amazing, guys. It's crazy. How I raised pigs.

Michael Walker:
This is just like the Jungle Book. The Jungle Book of 2021.

Kristine Mirelle:
It's crazy. It was crazy, guys, it was wild, me and all my pig family. So, I raised pigs, mowed lawns and had all these farmer friends, everyone had tractors, rode on horses, and that sort of thing. And so, I lost my train of thought because that was so funny. But thinking about, okay, what's interesting about myself? And then also start asking yourself what's like an interruption? How do you grab people's attention?

Kristine Mirelle:
And the way that you grab people's attention by doing a number of things, one, you need to be either interesting, inspiring, you need to have something sad or heartbreaking or happy and uplifting or controversial, just different things. I mean, you have artists like Adele for example, when her 21 album came out, the never mind, I'll find someone like you. When you knew her story, that was her boyfriend cheated on her, right? It didn't necessarily have to be her long story of her life. But there was a story about that song which made it very, very interesting.

Kristine Mirelle:
Jay Z and Beyonce, the Becky with the good hair and they were very open about that too. And I thought that was really powerful about the infidelity and stuff people know the Beyonce song. And so, finding, okay, is there something really interesting about my life? Did I overcome anything? Is something about my life inspiring? Is something really happy and uplifting? Is something very interesting? What is it about my life then? Just start writing down things if you were telling the story of your life.

Kristine Mirelle:
And then also moving from your life, like I've used the Adele song, is there also something interesting about this song? Was this song inspired because my girlfriend cheated on me with my best friend. That's the story right there. Maybe your mom was battling cancer and you shaved your head and now you have this song called Believe or something. You know what I mean? That's the story too like what about the song or what about your life creates this feeling?

Kristine Mirelle:
It just has to create something. It has to create some sort of feeling. It can't just be Bob Smith released a song, because that doesn't create anything that's very neutral. And then you have some artists that are just very controversial. I mean, Eminem was a really great example of that. So talented and brought on ... He was in headlines all the time, because he was so controversial. He said a lot of crazy things. And that's just another feeling, he created a feeling. And so, it's really that. Everyone should really look at their life and say, what about my upbringing is again interesting, fun, controversial, sad, heartbreaking, sexy, whatever that is, just create a feeling.

Kristine Mirelle:
And then, what have I overcome? Have I overcome anything? The Pursuit of Happiness is an amazing movie because of what he had to go through. If you guys remember the scene where he's sleeping in the bathroom with his son, I mean, god, it's heartbreaking. But then at the end, you're so excited to see him win. And if you think of your life as a script, what have I overcome? Or I was working with an artist and he had never even done a song in his life, never even written a song, never did anything and he went through one of my trainings on how to get booked in media.

Kristine Mirelle:
He created one song. And the way he pitched it was he was living on an island for two years so he was trapped on an island, created my first song and was able to get on the CW. He got on major television within days. It was his first song he'd ever written. And on top of that added, and this is another big one is something in your life relatable to what's currently happening? And whether that be in the news, whether that be in pop culture? For example, during COVID, he was really great guy and he was donating masks to the hospitals. So, it has nothing to do with the song. The song wasn't like put your mask on or anything like that. It had nothing to do with COVID. It was just a feel good song.

Kristine Mirelle:
But because in his current situation, he was doing something that was aligned with what was happening locally or not even locally, globally. They found it interesting. It was a story. Here's a guy that had lived on the island and now he's here, he's donating masks to these hospitals and he released this really great feel good song. And that pertains to what was happening in the news as well. So, there's many avenues that you can look at on how to really approach it and get a network or a radio station interested in your music and most importantly the story.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. Yeah. That's so valuable. This is a good time to bring up, I've been wondering or I feel like this is such a great like viral video song idea in the making that probably at some point someone can take and run with this. But it goes with what you just said in terms of things that are happening right now. And I think if someone did like a parody version of I Can See Clearly Now the rain is gone. But just change the words to like, I can breathe clearly now the mask is gone.

Michael Walker:
And the whole song was just a parody about like COVID ending and maybe about some of the political tensions or things. I think there's an opportunity there for like ...

Kristine Mirelle:
And then they can have the glasses and then the glasses fog up. Because I don't know if you had that problem. When I had my mask on if I wear glasses, it was foggy, I couldn't see anything. That would be really funny. And that's a good point because humor, and that was something I didn't mention, that's another big one.

Kristine Mirelle:
I don't know if you guys remember that song. She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy. I'm not even a big country fan, but I had to listen to that song. What is this? And I don't know if there was a story behind that song or what it was, but that would have been a good time to say that, "Hey, I had a crush on Sally down the street. She never paid attention to me until I got this big tractor and now she wants to talk to me." Something like that. That's just funny. Instead of just, she thinks my tractor's sexy, that's already really great alone but then if you add, "Hey, I had braces and pimples and nobody paid attention. And then I got my tractor. Now the girls like me."

Kristine Mirelle:
Just something that being open about what makes you human really.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that's so good. So many of those cues that you just shared are so valuable. I hope that people here are just taking notes and writing down those different prompts as a way to sort of brainstorm your own story. And look for those little gold nuggets and those different things that you can communicate, different angles you can take for different experiences you've gone through.

Michael Walker:
Also, a lot of times, I think that those are also opportunities to, if you haven't yet actually write songs for some of those. Man, if you've gone through some really traumatic things in your life when you're growing up or something that music, it seemed like that's what it's here for is to help you to express and voice some of those feelings. And so I think it's just a really valuable practice to have a document or a mind map or something that you can break down the stories and be able to share.

Michael Walker:
One thing I'd be interested to hear your take on or have a discussion about, and I feel like the question you asked about what hurdles have you overcome? It's such a powerful one, because that's really kind of like a core in any good story or any good hero's journey is that there needs to be some sort of like core hurdle or some core challenge or some core struggle. And then the hero has to overcome this challenge. And through the process of doing so, they become a different person, and then they're able to transform because of it.

Michael Walker:
And what that sort of evokes in me is the idea of the hero's journey. And this idea, I think it was Joseph Campbell, really sort of coined and start looking at these archetypes behind all behind human myths and found these similarities between all of these Hollywood stories where they had the same framework that heroes like Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker and other people were going through.

Michael Walker:
So, I would love to maybe talk a little bit about that and hear your perspective on the hero's journey and how, as artists, we might be able to apply some of those phases of the hero's journey. And so, thinking about our own through line or on narrative.

Kristine Mirelle:
Absolutely. Every artist that I talked to, I mean, there's never an artist that I meet that says, "I only make music just because I want to be rich and famous." I mean, everyone that I've learned I feel like we're all a bunch of hippies that actually want to either make people feel good or inspire people or make people just have a good time and dance, that sort of thing. I meet so many artists that are like, "I want to start a nonprofit or I want to donate the proceeds to this, or I want to raise money for cancer research," or whatever it is.

Kristine Mirelle:
And I found that on a deeper foundational level that that's where our passion comes from. And we want to heal people. I mean, music is so incredibly powerful. You can bring someone to tears. I've been playing in restaurants, just a regular restaurant, and couples have come up crying, saying, "Hey, you've played our song that we got married to 30 years ago and today's our anniversary." And what I've found even more so is if you share like when you're talking about the hero's journey, if you also share how you've arrived where you are.

Kristine Mirelle:
And someone doesn't even have to be an artist. If I talk to people about how I used to sell my music door to door. I did for many years. I used to knock on people's doors. People would slam doors in my face. They'd yell at me. They call me names. They tell me to get a real job. I would cry in alleyways. Because at many points in my life, I didn't even have a car so I would just get dropped off in these areas and just walk around with the albums. At one point, I had this little scooter. It was a little electric scooter, I used to charge it at night. And it would help me get from house to house.

Kristine Mirelle:
And everywhere that I would go, there'd be like groups of kids that they thought I was cool, right? I was really cool to 10 year olds. I don't know about anybody else. But all the kids that I was cool. So, that's all that matters. And they would follow me around through the neighborhoods. I've gotten chased by dogs like pit bulls and all kinds of crazy stuff. But when I share this with people, when I talk to people about look, growing up, I thought rich people ate Lunchables. That's what I thought because our family couldn't afford them. The little crackers with the meat and the cheese and then if you get really fancy, you get the one with the Capri Sun and the Snickers bar.

Kristine Mirelle:
Sharing that like this is my journey. I started from here. We lived in government housing, we did all those things. I had high-water pants. That was my upbringing. And then when I got in high school, I started selling chocolate, I started selling caramel apple suckers and saving money so that I could record. And then also talking about the things that were very difficult. It's uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable to talk about some of the things that you've been through.

Kristine Mirelle:
I've just recently started talking about my very first concert that I opened. I was opening up for Pitbull. He wasn't as big as he is now. But where I'm from, there's a lot of violent crimes and there was a drive by. So bullets go through the wall and we're hitting the ground. And then my car got shot up, I had bullet holes in my house, it was a consistent thing. And going, "I was always aware of that and I wasn't really hiding it. But I never shared with people that that was where I come from."

Kristine Mirelle:
My first boyfriend died of a drug overdose. There's a lot of drugs and those types of things. I never really thought it was very relevant. But when I share those things with people, and then I go, "Now, here's a song I wrote." And it can be about anything. Now a great song would be, here's an inspiring song. But even if here's a song that I've written, the fact that you're still after all the things that you've been through in life, whether it be heartbreak, whether it be extreme loss, whether it be poverty, whatever it is, whatever your journey, however it's taken you, to then still be on your feet making music, that's what makes you.

Kristine Mirelle:
And I wouldn't be in this position that I am to have this ... I have so much freedom because I had to learn how to do everything from scratch. And so, I have so much freedom that I can turn away opportunities. I can create opportunities. But sharing those hardships are what has made people interested in interviewing me and sharing my music. And just that journey of here's where I started and here's where I am and our life looks like this. And becoming a mother and the challenges of doing that alone and that sort of thing, those are very uncomfortable conversations to have.

Kristine Mirelle:
But what I found was when I started sharing those things, the amount of people reaching out to say. "You know what? I didn't think I could do it until I saw that you did." Or, "I didn't think that I had an opportunity to do this. Because everyone tells me that you can't be a mom, you can't have a baby, you can't be over 21." I've met a lot of people that are like, "I'm not 18 anymore, I can't do it." That I got to look a certain way or I have to make a certain style of music or I can't be older. Just lots of things.

Kristine Mirelle:
There's all these bits that people have and that they've kind of ingrained in their head and that they believed. And because of that, I found that, "Hey, I share my story. It inspires people." There's so many people watching right now that have something, stories inside of them that they haven't shared that they're ashamed of that have made them feel like they're not good enough or whatever enough, fill in the blank, not smart enough, not cute enough, not whatever enough.

Kristine Mirelle:
But that journey, it just resonates with people. And we're talking about television and radio but everything. Like with your fan base, with the people, when you talk about trying to create super fans, fans and super fans spend hundreds to thousands of dollars. And I've had super fans that have supported my music career that have spent in the tens of thousands of dollars supporting my crowdfunding campaigns, supporting my singles releases and those types of things.

Kristine Mirelle:
But those come from the more transparent I can be. I posted a picture yesterday on Instagram that was like, here's the Instagram Lite. And I'm like all cute. And then it's like versus reality. And I'm with my son and just madness, my hair is all whatever. But I'll say that I got so many messages from people and I wasn't even trying to like ... I just thought it was funny. Like here's Instagram and here's what my life really is like. I got so many messages from people that were just like, "Man, I'm so glad you did that. I feel like I can do it." I got a lot of moms, because that's a big part of my story.

Kristine Mirelle:
A lot of moms that are like, "I just do really think that I could do this." And I think that as an artist, regardless of your situation, it feels good to have people say, "Your music has helped me through this. Your story about the music has helped me through this." And I always use this as an example because Eric Clapton, if you remember Tears In heaven, "Would you know my name, if I saw you in heaven?" Beautiful song.

Kristine Mirelle:
If you don't know the story behind that, I'm not sure if he had come home or he was in a hotel but someone was cleaning the windows and they left the window open. And when they came to the residence, his son took off running and didn't realize that it was a window that was open. And he ran and he fell off of the building and passed away. And imagine if he never wrote that song. Imagine if he said, "It hurts too much. I can't talk about it." And that's a lot of people. A lot of people have gone through things that it's like even right now, as I'm talking about, I'm like, "Don't cry. Don't cry."

Kristine Mirelle:
But he went up there and said, "No, I'm going to talk about it. And I'm going to sing the song would you know my name if I saw you in heaven?" That's some powerful, powerful lyrics. Can you imagine how hard it was to get up on stage and sing those words, and replay that through his mind? And I've found that my journey I've had my hardships and the things that I have gone through. I've gone through a lot of relationship, physical abuse, and all of those things and it's embarrassing and it's hard to talk about.

Kristine Mirelle:
But when I share it, the amount of healing that it provides for people and ultimately, yes, you build fans, you end up making more money. I mean, all those things come anyways. But I really think on a foundational level, if we just really focus on what is it about our journey that is ... I always encourage everybody, we can really heal a lot of people. Those talents and gifts that we have, when you just say, "Hey, I love you." When you sing it, I love you. It's a totally different effect that it has on people.

Kristine Mirelle:
I know I kind of circled around a lot of different places. But that's why that story is so important because it is so powerful. And that example is like a very extreme example. But it was difficult for him. And a lot of people watching right now are probably saying the same thing. It's difficult to talk about this. But imagine what you can do for people when you do talk about it.

Michael Walker:
All right. Let's take a quick break for the podcasts. I can tell you about a free special offer we're doing right now exclusively for our podcast listeners. So, if you get a ton of value from the show, but you want to take your music career to the next level, connect with the community of driven musicians and connect with the music mentors directly that we have on this podcast. Or if you just want to know the best way to market your music and grow an audience right now then this is going to be perfect for you.

Michael Walker:
So right now, we're offering a free two week trial to our music mentor coaching program. And if you sign up in the show notes below, you're going to get access to our entire music mentor content vault for free. The vault is organized into four different content pillars. The first being the music, then the artist, the fans and last but not least, the business. When you sign up, you'll unlock our best in-depth master classes from a network of world class musicians and industry experts from the most cutting edge strategies right now for growing your music business.

Michael Walker:
On top of that, you'll get access to our weekly live masterminds, where our highest level of Modern Musician coaches teach you exactly what they're doing to make an income and an impact like their music. Then once a month, we're going to have our music mentor spotlight series. And that's when we're going to bring on some of the world's biggest and best artists, coaches and successful musicians to teach you what's working right now.

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And one of the most amazing parts is that you can get your questions answered live by these top of the music mentors. So, a lot of people you hear right here on the podcast but they're live interacting with you personally. So, imagine being able to connect with them directly. On top of all that, you'll get access to our private music mentor community. And this is definitely one of my favorite parts of music mentor and maybe the most valuable is that you're going to have this community where you can network with other artists and link up and collaborate, ask questions, get support, and discuss everything related to your music career.

Michael Walker:
So, if you're curious and you want to take advantage of the free trial, then go click on the link in the show notes right now and sign up for free. From there, you check out all of the amazing concepts, connect with community and sign up for the live master classes that happen every week. This is a gift for listening to our podcast and supporting the show. So don't miss out, go sign up for free now and let's get back to our interview.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. I find myself in the camp of someone who's trying to hold himself back from tears after hearing this with Eric Clapton. I didn't know that that's where the song came from. But wow. I mean, that's so powerful and, yeah, brave for him to share that. And the impact that he made on other people, I mean, there's so many people who have lost a loved one and lost a kid and to be able to have to share that song, that's powerful. And also, everything that you just shared was just such a perfect example of like you sharing your story really highlights everything we're talking about here, watch and listen as she's sharing her story, all the elements that we're talking about are incorporated in that.

Michael Walker:
And for me like with Modern Musician, my story, I talked a lot about when we started out, we lived in our van. We slept in Walmart parking lots. We struggled. People called us Paradise Fears. And it was challenging. And we worked really, really hard. And ate peanut butter tortillas for breakfast, lunch, later. That story has become really powerful to share and I think inspiring for a lot of people. And it wasn't just something that was just always instantly there. It's something that over time, you learn how to cultivate the story. You learn the parts of your own story that are most inspiring to share.

Michael Walker:
I think that there's a lot of really good pointers here that we're talking about. And really thinking back to like, what are the most challenging times or struggle ... What are the biggest hurdles I had to overcome. And also think about just the low points in your life and the high points in your life. It can be both of them. When I think about the high points of my life, I think about when, Zander, my son was born, when I first became a dad. And that makes me feel emotional and it was one of the best moments of my life.

Michael Walker:
I think all of us have those stories, those ups and those downs and they tend to also be how we can really inspire people and really connect and relate with people. And especially, we all love hearing stories about transformation and so, I think, that doing some digging in your own life and finding out those things that they've gone through, they've overcome we tend to overlook, we tend to take for granted. Because after you've overcome them, it's easy to lose touch with who you were before you overcame that.

Michael Walker:
But maybe you used to have social anxiety and you used to feel super uncomfortable talking to people and expressing yourself. And then, you got on stage and you start playing music and people started to pay attention and you started to find your voice and you found there's a way to connect with people. And now, your music is a way for you to overcome your social anxiety. That's a story.

Kristine Mirelle:
And I was going to say also as you're mentioning this, this is a good thing because I get asked this a lot too. A lot of people don't want to share it because of that fear of rejection, the fear of people. Because when you lay it all out there, there's a lot of vulnerability there. Even when I share stuff about being a mom, there's always haters. I had to delete some stuff today. There's always people on there, they have their own opinions and stuff. It will always happen. There always will be and there's going to be people that call you names. Paradise queer, that's just.

Kristine Mirelle:
It's funny now, but I'm sure at that time, it wasn't very funny. People are going to hate no matter what if you do anything that they're going to hate. But that's not what you're doing it for. You're not doing it for those people because those people make up a small majority. You're doing it for the people that you care about. And if you think consistently about how are people going to react negatively to my story? How are we going to react? Then, you start creating these reservations about it. But really, those people, they hate everything, they're going to hate you no matter what you do.

Kristine Mirelle:
And so, it's keeping those people to the side and then figuring out what's good for you. And I'll say, I mean, here's an example, I used to play in a lounge in Hollywood. And I remember this guy came up and I was in the middle of singing a song, it was really awkward. And he's like, "Hey," and he comes at my piano and I'm like singing and he's like, "What's your number?" And I'm like, in the middle of like, I don't know, Brown Eyed Girl. And he's like, "What's your number?" And he kept on asking and asking and I was like, "Hey, I'm in the middle of singing and no I'm not going to give you my phone number."

Kristine Mirelle:
He got so irate and he started screaming at the top of his lungs and calling me all these terrible names. I mean, it was incredibly embarrassing. And I just kept playing and I was trying not to cry because he was so incredibly rude and the whole lounge was staring. I didn't know what people were thinking. I didn't know if I should have said something. I didn't know whether to stop. I just kind of kept going and I took a break. I finished and he ended up walking out. And I went to the back and I cried because it was so, again, it was just mortifying to have this guy yelling at me and calling me all these names just because I wouldn't give him my phone number.

Kristine Mirelle:
I've had so many moments like this where it's just like, okay, what is it that I do now? Do I cry and go home? What is it? And I go, these are those moments that that really define you and separate you. Really success as an artist really isn't based on who's the most talented or can sing the best or play the best or anything like that. It's really 10% talent and 90% like hustle. That's what I would say. It's like 90% hustle and it's grinding harder. And so, when I went out there, and this was a crazy, crazy contrast, because I went out there and I was trying to tell the story and not cry, so I'm going to try not to cry.

Kristine Mirelle:
So I started singing this other song and it was a long gig. It was like a four-hour gig so it's like the last set and I remember this couple came in and they sat down in the ... It was more of like a lounge so kind of a table and they had a baby with them. And I couldn't really see them and I wasn't really paying a ton of attention but I was playing. And I saw that they brought the baby out and they were dancing with the baby and I thought, "Oh, that's so sweet, so sweet." And I look over and it's a mom and a dad and then when I looked closer I saw that the baby didn't have any arms or any legs. He was just the core body and the baby must have been gosh like three months old.

Kristine Mirelle:
And I'm singing and I'm like, "Don't look, don't look because you're going to cry." You know what I mean? "Don't think about it. Don't do anything. You're creating this experience for them right now that they're able to enjoy with their child and so don't cry." And I just remember thinking, "Had I stopped today, had I said, this is too hard. People are hating on me, people are calling me names, the guy had just ... I had literally just cried in the closet. That was where I was." That night is one of the most defining things for me when I look at a lot of things in my life because it was just me and those people. I wasn't getting anything else from it. There wasn't cameras. There wasn't anything.

Kristine Mirelle:
It was just me and those people and I had a real moment and going this is why we do this, this is why we do this as artists because of moments like this, because we're able to create these feelings for people. And even that, like sharing that story with people when I tell people about that and they go, "Man, I've had haters." And that might be your story. Whoever is story watching. Maybe people have been bullied. Maybe people have been told that they're never going to amount to anything. Maybe they've been told that they need to go get a real job or whatever it is that we always hear as artists.

Kristine Mirelle:
You can't make money off music, you go get a plan B, and those types of things. And when I share that story with people, they go, "Oh man, now, I feel like I can do it." When I tell people about when I cried in the alleyways and continued going door-to-door those types of things, it just makes people feel like they can do it too. So, moving on, and I know I really, really stick on the story, but back on this subject, I guess, it was going to be on major television and radio, people go, "Okay, well, is there an exact formula on how to get on these things?"

Kristine Mirelle:
Well, there's a lot of different ways that you can do it right? You're reaching out to television, on Instagram, Facebook email, you can call them, you can go on their website and see where to submit your story. But as long as you have a great story and as long as they're able to become aware of it, it doesn't matter the avenue in which you do it. It doesn't matter if you show up and you say, "Here's my story." It doesn't have to be like it has to be on Instagram, it has to be an email and it has to be formatted this way.

Kristine Mirelle:
No. Because once you have the story, people are going to gravitate towards that. They want you on the television station. They want you on the radio station. And especially the more inspiring it is, heartwarming it is, the more it touch people's heartstrings too by you being transparent and vulnerable. A lot of TV stations, that's what they want. Because then you have families watching, news stations have families, there's kids watching, it has to be family friendly. So, sharing those struggles, sharing those things that you go through and sharing those things that make you cry.

Kristine Mirelle:
I mean, I've cried so many times at webinars. And it affects people in such an amazing way. So, I would hope that that's what people would gather, especially from today.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Isn't it kind of weird how it seems like there's almost a universal law that it's like right behind those most traumatic experiences or those things that go wrong or whatever it is, like right behind. It tends to be it's the last thing before you kind of break through those. And so it's like if you have a big goal and you're trying to achieve something, then it's like right before success, you're approaching the finish line, then all of a sudden, everything goes haywire. And like something terrible happens.

Michael Walker:
And like you're saying like, those are really kind of those character defining moments where it's like you're just a little bit away. It's going to make the story so much better. It's almost like the universe wants to test your resolve and wants to be like, "Okay, well, how much do you really want this? You really want this thing?" And so for anyone who feels like yeah, they're going through something or a challenge or something like that in their life right now. And I think it helps to be prepared and to understand like, "Okay, when those things happen that's the time to lean in. And it's okay to embrace that and actually use it for strength and that it does build a lot of character."

Michael Walker:
The way that you described it like having that moments where you cried and you really had to absorb what just happened. And then, right on the other side of it, based on that decision, you're able to make that family stay. It's so powerful. So, I really appreciate you sharing that story. So let's talk a little bit more about some potential ideas. Because like you said, I'm really glad that we spent a lot of time focusing on the source material and talking about the stories because that's the magic sauce, right? That's the magic sauce for both what we're talking about with getting media outlet care overage and also just in terms of being a human, being successful in anything.

Michael Walker:
As communities, we have evolved to learn how to communicate through stories. And you learning how to share your story in a way that's compelling. It's something it's going to benefit you in every area of your life. And probably the number one factor of your success getting on media outlets is, at least a huge lever is the quality of your story, right? So, let's say that someone has sort of done this process of refining and they've got a few different stories in different angles and the are things that maybe they have friends or family or other people they've talked to, and they know that they've resonated, the things that bring up some emotion and the things that would be really inspiring. And they think, "Okay, this might be a good angle."

Michael Walker:
What would you do right now if you were at that point where you haven't really built up many connections yet with press or with media outlets, and you've got an event coming up. Maybe you got an EP or a single release coming up four months from now. What would your approach be in terms of starting to leverage the story so you could really capitalize on the release the best?

Kristine Mirelle:
Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. There's a few things, as someone figures out, what makes me unique? So, for me, it's I came from a small upbringing or a humble upbringing and I'm a single mom, I'm Hispanic, I'm female, name all the things about you. Because then at that point, just the fact that you're a female or a male, or the fact whatever it is, you can then find outlets that support females, right, like female business owners, female musicians or Hispanic entrepreneurs because music or small business owner.

Kristine Mirelle:
You can then start going, "Well, what do I fall under?" Because there's going to be outlets that want to support you just because of that. And I'll use this as an example. I've written a song about losing someone. And in the music video, I had my brother who's in the military, my family's all military. So, I have a really big respect for anyone that serves. So, the whole video was about losing someone in the military. At that point, you go, "Okay, what I did was I said I have a single coming out about ... I wrote about losing my best friend but the music video is all based around military."

Kristine Mirelle:
So, I'm now going to go seek out blogs, podcasts, websites that also support veterans, military, America, that kind of stuff. And then I'm going to reach out to them because it's relevant. So, that's another big thing. Like if you're reaching out to a country music blog and you're a hip hop artist, that's not a good decision, right? And then you might even feel bad, like, "How come they didn't feature me? I must suck." No, you just chose the wrong venue, the wrong avenue to get published.

Kristine Mirelle:
And so, it's really thinking about, again, I'm Hispanic, so for me, I'm going to look at to like Hispanic e-signs magazines, those types of things that support Hispanic people. And then, then I will start, at that point, it's really easy to find how to submit to them. It's usually right on their website. It just needs to make sense. So, if you're going, "Okay, I'm a Hispanic female." And, again, with the video that I did based around military, I can then Google and say, there's Facebook groups, there's huge Facebook groups. And on all these are media, but you can also again, podcasts, magazines, there's even college radio stations, those types.

Kristine Mirelle:
Reach out to something that's relevant. And what I've always told everybody is the easiest media to get into is something local, something local to where you are. Because even the fact that you're from there is something that's relevant, local, aspiring singer puts out an album about such and such, maybe donating 10% of the profits to the local hospital or something. Something like that is always really great, incorporating something that helps the community.

Kristine Mirelle:
I feel like a lot of musicians are like, "I want to change the world when I reach here, when I'm rich and famous." But in the meantime, we can be doing our part, like, "Hey, I'm donating 10% of it to such and such hospital." So, not only are you donating some of the proceeds, but whatever TV station or radio station or podcast that you go on, you're bringing attention to that organization as well, which is really valuable. So, I would say, again, write down, what makes me different? If you're a veteran, that's a great one because there's going to be plenty of places that are going to want to interview you, just the fact that you've served, those types of things.

Kristine Mirelle:
Or your dad, that's a big one. There's plenty of single dads or dads unite, those types of things, podcast. Locally, again, if you're performing at a local event, like I did, I did a fundraiser for ... So my father served in Iraq and when him and his battalion came back after being gone for 18 months, I was performing. Now, I could have just performed and that would have been that, but it's an opportunity to bring more attention to it. So at that point, reaching out to the local television station, that headline now becomes daughter of sergeant currently coming back from Iraq will be performing at the, I forgot what the event was, at the such and such event on May 19.

Kristine Mirelle:
So, there's your event, the performance, but here's the story. So I'm the daughter of a man who's coming back from Iraq. So, just thinking about what's going on in my life? Who am I? And then, what avenues, what media outlets will be interested in me simply because of who I am? What media outlets will be interested in me because it's relevant to what's happening? At the time, it was right after 9/11 when I was performing, two years later after my dad returned, but it was still a big issue. So, of course, they wanted to talk to me. Of course, they wanted to hear what it was like. It was a very hard time for me and my family, and to talk about that.

Kristine Mirelle:
And then, the music kind of is like the ... It's almost like not the most important thing. And that's what I think most people are just so focused on the music that when it comes to news and media, it's everything before that. I mean, I could have been a baker. I could have said, "And I make cakes." You know what I mean? It wouldn't even have mattered. I could have promoted anything at that point. We just happen to all be musicians, but they were already interested because it was relevant to local news. It was relevant to national news as well because of what was happening globally.

Kristine Mirelle:
And then, I was able to introduce my music because of it. So really just thinking about, name everything about you, everything about you, who you are, your story and then start seeking out those outlets. And usually, if you find the local TV station, another thing that you can do is besides going on the website and there's usually a link that says submit a story. It's usually that simple. You can do that to Oprah, by the way. You can submit a story to Oprah. I did when I was a kid. I was like, "I'm going to get on Oprah."

Kristine Mirelle:
And so, it's not hard to reach. And maybe it's going to have to go through, there's a filtration system, there's people reading, and it goes to the next one. But the fact that you can submit your story directly, like it's there, you can go right now oprah.com, it'll be right there, submit a story. Locally, it's there. Also, on another level, what I like to do is I always like to think, how do I get to the people that work there? Because maybe I'm going to send it on this email but maybe it's an intern and maybe that intern doesn't find it interesting or compelling, because they don't relate to it or whatnot.

Kristine Mirelle:
But it doesn't mean that it's not interesting, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a chance. I'll then go find all of the TV anchors, like who's all the TV anchors? And then I go find them on Instagram. And then, I dm them directly. Like, now you're getting directly to the people who actually there's a face and there's a name, Bob Smith at Fox News in Wichita, Kansas. And it's there and you can reach them directly. It's a very simple process. I mean, I've used that process for so many different things, but finding them on Instagram, finding them on Facebook, finding them on all these social media networks.

Kristine Mirelle:
We're living in a time where we have access. I mean, back then we couldn't have done that. There would have been no way. I mean, maybe you could find out where they live and then you're really weird and they're going to ask you to leave. Now, the fact that we can reach out to people so easily and have an opportunity to at least be seen, at least to be considered for it is a huge opportunity. So many people are scared to even ask.

Kristine Mirelle:
Ask. Put your story together, find the local network, find the local podcast with a local website, contact those people. Because even if they don't like it the first time, maybe in a few months, you're going to have something else that's different. Maybe you are going to have something more interesting later, or maybe they're going to like the next song that you come out with, don't just try once and give up. I always tell everyone, "I have at least a 90% failure rate, like nine out of 10 times I fail." So 10%, that's an F. If that's at school, that's an F.

Kristine Mirelle:
But there's a really great saying that I love. I used to see this on a classroom when I was in elementary school and it's always stuck with me. And it says, "A big shot is just a little shot that kept shooting." And I love that. Because I've always felt like that, for me, it was like failure after failure after failure after failure. But I didn't have an ego that kept me back from continuing to shoot, because I didn't care. I was just like, "I don't care, my life is going to be like this. I'm going to do music for a living. I'm going to travel the world. I'm going to do all these cool things. And I don't care how many times I have to fail to get there."

Kristine Mirelle:
And so, I would encourage that for other people too. Reach out to 100 venues. Don't send five emails and then go, "Nobody got back to me, they don't like me," because at the same time, they may love you, but it just might not be relevant right now. They might be like, "Hey, this week is Hispanic Heritage Month," and maybe you're Asian and they're trying to just have Hispanics on that week. And so, it has nothing to do with you, they could love you. Just may be the theme of the week is something that you don't happen to fall in that category.

Kristine Mirelle:
So, that's what's really important too, is reach out over and over again. Just make sure that you've done a good job of putting together a good presentation, presenting that story and that it's relevant to whatever outlet you're reaching out to.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. Yeah. And definitely a good thing that keeps coming up as a pattern over and over again is talking about the willingness to try and keep trying and keep failing and keep failing. And I love the way you put it that 90% "failure rate", because it seems like it's so easy to get discouraged after you reach out four or five times, you don't hear anything back. And I mean, it's a pretty common principle, I think, of the most successful people like Thomas Edison talks about the light bulb, right? Every mistake is a learning lesson that kind of gets you closer.

Michael Walker:
It's kind of like shooting a basketball, right? Like if you shoot a basketball at a hoop, then you're unlikely you're going to just make ... The first time ever shooting the basketball, you're probably not going to just make it into the hoop from a three point. But you shoot it and you see, okay, where did it fall? And then based on that feedback, you can keep shooting it and keep shooting it. And as long as you're paying attention to like, okay, I shot it, where did it land? And you can kind of adjust your approach then it really is just a numbers game and just being willing to be the person who gets rejected or fails or doesn't reach the goal the first 10 times and just keeps going. I guess ...

Kristine Mirelle:
There's one more quote that I love too that's totally on this subject and it goes, "Most people are not willing to be bad at something long enough to get good at it." Everyone wants to go from A to Z and they don't want this. And I will say, the successful artists that I've met, and for myself, and I'm sure it's true from the stories that you shared with me as well, we were just willing to be bad at it. We were willing to make mistakes. I joke with people that one of the first times I was ever on stage, like, I am not a natural on stage. Now, I'm very comfortable on stage. I'm not nervous at all. But that wasn't a comfortable place for me.

Kristine Mirelle:
And when I first started, I mean, I was like ... Because I was playing piano, so I was playing it as a kid, but I was like 12, or 13. I mean, it was already not acceptable anymore. And I got on stage and I got so nervous that I froze. I peed at my pants, not even lying. I totally beat at my pants entirely. It wasn't like a little bit, it was just unbelievable and I froze and I couldn't move. And I remember there's probably like 200 people in the audience. It wasn't a little thing. It was not 200 people. And I remember there was a little puddle under me, it was just all bad, all bad.

Kristine Mirelle:
And the producer of the show comes out and he grabs me and he just kind of like. And I had this smile on your face where you're like faking a smile, like you don't have the eyes. You're just like. I just had this like. And he just pulled me off the stage. And my mom, she didn't say anything to me. But she just brought me to the car and gave me a new pair of pants. We've never even talked about it. It was so mortifying. I think I wanted to pretend that it never happened. But it's funny now. That was an epic failure. I don't know anybody that has completely peed in their pants on stage.

Kristine Mirelle:
We hit wrong notes, we might fall, I think Fergie had an instance where she did something like that. I guess hers is worse, because it was national news. But I just share this, because I've had a lot of epic failures. And I'm sure there's lots of people watching that have too. It makes our story fun, it makes it interesting. But you have to keep going, though. You don't want to end right there. Like that was the end of my career. Because now, it's not really a story. It's like, "Oh, so you quit."

Kristine Mirelle:
But people remember you when you reach those high points. You don't want to end at the low points, you want to keep going. That's what I've always told myself. I'm like, this is the part where it gets interesting. This is the climax. When I was bathing in that gas station I remember going, "I can't wait to tell people about this. I can't wait to say that I had to go through this and that I was willing to do this for what I love." And I was excited about it. I was like, "I am so excited that I get to share this." Now, it still sucked. You know what I mean? But I knew in my heart I had decided that this wasn't the end of my story. This is the middle. This is the middle, this is the part where it's going to get really good.

Kristine Mirelle:
And this is the part where other people are going to read this and "Oh, man, well, if she can do it, then I can do it." So, I just had to share that because I know a lot of people have stage fright, and all those types of things too. So, I just want to share that and say, "Hey, you just keep going, good things can happen. Just don't stop there."

Michael Walker:
Yeah. That probably takes the cake for me in terms of stage fright stories. For me, I remember distinctly a piano recital when I was growing up, and I had like a panic attack and I was chewing a piece of gum. And when I walk on stage, I like froze, but my jaw was just going like crazy. And that was like the takeaway from everyone. But I can't say that I ever peed my pants while I was performing. But that's a great story. Yeah, yeah, I think you're totally right too. And it's one of the key factors, I think, that distinguishes people who become successful at something from the people who give up is the people who are successful are willing to, like you said, they're willing to not be good and to understand that it's a temporary thing.

Michael Walker:
And even that, if you imagine for a second, anything worthwhile that you can accomplish in your life that's actually going to bring meaning to your life that's going to bring fulfillment isn't going to be easy, right? I think a lot of times people, they just want it to be easy. And it's okay to make things streamline and simple. You don't have to intentionally cause yourself to suffer unnecessarily. You don't have to cause yourself to suffer unnecessarily. You don't have to artificially create suffering, life is pretty good at doing that for you whether you want to or not.

Kristine Mirelle:
Right.

Michael Walker:
And so, I think, that the people who are successful are the ones that are able to embrace and acknowledge the struggle and the challenge and to honor that and to see that as part of the journey. And if that didn't exist, then it wouldn't be a good story when you overcame it and it wouldn't be fulfilling to you. And so, it's not a sign of something's wrong when you have a challenge and it's not all completely rainbows and butterflies. It's not easy. But it's, in a lot of cases, it's a sign that you're on the right path. And that's like, "Oh, yeah, this is part of the challenge, part of the struggle. I've got my goal in mind. I'm going to keep going no matter what," like what you said.

Kristine Mirelle:
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And another point that, as you were speaking, that came to mind was, it's not also just about what's happening externally, but also the internal battles that you have that you're battling. And you mentioned a little bit earlier, but I know I didn't really touch on it, but overcoming depression, anxiety, or even if it's still something that you battle with every day, just getting out of bed every morning, that was a big thing for me. I remember I used to, when I was younger, I've gone through alcoholism and just all kinds of things. And I would sleep every day until 2:00 in the morning, and I would drink so I didn't have to look at my life. So I didn't have to deal with the life that I had created for myself.

Kristine Mirelle:
But that was a lot of internal battles. And there was a lot of suffering that I created for myself based on my choices that I was making in my life, but I just didn't want to face head on what I had created. I would rather drink and be in this other world. But that's an internal battle. Sharing that with people, that would be an avenue. Like if I wrote a song about how I overcame that. Now, I can reach out to those avenues about alcoholism. There's just different angles here. And then also, I didn't mention this, I wanted to add as well, when I got on radio, I was on KIIS-FM, Power 106, those big stations.

Kristine Mirelle:
And, again, everything that I did, everyone always says, "You can't do that. You can only do that if you're on a major label." I didn't even have a manager. I didn't have any money. I wasn't paying anybody, nothing like that. But the way that I got on was, I didn't just reach out to the radio station just like when I got on Fox and NBC and CBS multiple times, I reached out to the anchors. Well, on radio, I reached out to the DJs. And I said, "Hey, here's my story. Here's what I have going on. I'm coming into town, because I'm doing a tour or whatever it is, I'm sleeping on couches, stranger's couches," I did that on a tour. But then sometimes these radio stations have a special segment for local artists or independent artists.

Kristine Mirelle:
Some of them say, "Well, Friday nights, from 6:00 to 8:00, we have a battle of the bands or a battle of the local artists." Many of these stations already have that in place. And if you're coming into town, let's say you're doing a tour, or it's local, it's very possible that they can go, "Oh, not only can we play your song, but man, we like your live performance. Why don't you come in and perform?" Because I've done that. I've performed on a lot of radio stations. I even pitched something at one point where I used to bring a keyboard and they would play any song. I would say, "Play any song, I don't care what it is and I'll play along with it."

Kristine Mirelle:
So, it became this kind of fun thing where on the radio, I got to talk and get interviewed. They played my song. I told my story. And then at the end, it would be, "Okay, now we're going to play this game where we play any song to Kristine," and it was always fun like hip hop songs or things that you wouldn't normally hear piano on. And then I would turn into like classical piano pieces. That was something that was really fun. So, there's just all these different things that you can kind of incorporate. But just on a minimum level after you get that story, reach out to the local radio DJs, ask them if they have a segment for local artists.

Kristine Mirelle:
Or if you're going on tour, I did a 25 city tour around the United States that I set up by myself, I didn't have an agent or anything. Each of those places that I went through, I looked in each city, and I looked up all the TV stations, all the radio stations, newspapers, just all of those things, just anything that I could get to build an audience around what I was doing. I reached out to everybody that was local, individually. Because there's two things that you're going to do, you're either going to spend time or money.

Kristine Mirelle:
So, you can spend thousands and thousands of dollars a month on a PR agent. Most artists don't have that. So you need to spend the time. Don't send out a bulk email to everybody, where you just change the name. Do the research, the way that you get on is, "Hey, Sally, I've seen that you guys have been covering this type of material lately on bullying. Well, I have this song called Believe in Myself," or whatever it is. "This is my story. This is what I overcame. And here's the link to me performing the song or here's the link to my music video. Would this interest you at all or your media outlet?"

Kristine Mirelle:
That's a great way to introduce yourself because you've shown that you pay attention to their network, you know that they've been covering certain types of materials lately, and your song is relevant to what they've been covering. Rather than, I'm a really good singer. You should have my song. You should play my song. Right? So put the time in. And usually when you're paying PR, that's what they're doing anyways. They're doing the exact same thing but you're paying them to put the time in. As an artist, again, you're either spending time or money so spend the time instead.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. Yeah. I love the way that you just broke down the reach out message too, I think, is really smart. And one thing that kind of got my brain turning. And this will be especially relevant to anyone, any of the artists like in our program that we talked about like the video review strategy. I imagine that that link that you sent out to one of your songs, it doesn't necessarily have to have a lot of engagement or social proof or whatnot. But it just seemed like if you have some credibility or if you have a bit of a following, or you have like that, it can make a difference when you're reaching out to opportunities like this.

Michael Walker:
So I almost imagine if you did a video of you campaign for a music video of one of your songs, maybe in the description you use it as a way to test out this angle of your story. You can actually share that. I think that this could be a compelling kind of story or it's going to be a good thing to share. And maybe even some of the targeting that you do around launching the campaign, you target people specifically based on the story. It's really not that hard, I think, for a few hundred dollars you can get 100,000 views on a song pretty easily on like Facebook.

Michael Walker:
And if you use that as the link when you're telling your story, and you're sending that out, that it has a bunch of real engagement and real views, then that could probably be a nice way to kind of tie in with that strategy as well.

Kristine Mirelle:
Yeah. That's a really, really great strategy. Absolutely. And I'll say that when I first got on like Fox, for example. And I think that was probably the first network that I ever got on. I sent them a video of, at the time, I was doing a tour, and I was performing during the day for kids for free. And then at night, I was performing at bars and casinos to help fund the tour. But it was like I love working with kids. So, that was my big thing.

Kristine Mirelle:
But I made a video that talked about why. And so, I had footage. Because I've worked in a lot of third world countries and stuff so I have footage of really cool stuff, like working in South Africa and Thailand and different places. Whatever your focus in your story is, "Hey, I lost my grandmother, but she always believed in me, and this is why I'm doing this tour, or this is why I recreated the song." To have a video where you're talking about that and then you have video footage of maybe you and your grandma singing. My grandma is the reason that I did this.

Kristine Mirelle:
I saw a young woman that her grandmother was a Holocaust survivor. And I don't know if it was like a special day that was set aside for commemoration of the survivors and that sort of thing. But she was able to perform and share her music on TV because it was relevant to what was going on. But then she had this really nice video that she had on YouTube of her talking about her experience with her grandmother. And so it the experience of she wasn't didn't survive the Holocaust, but her grandma did. And now seeing another perspective was pretty incredible.

Kristine Mirelle:
And then with mine, I was doing my tour because of the work that I had done overseas and I really wanted to do a lot of stuff within the United States. So I was traveling around for like 90 days. And so I had that. I had the footage from my trips. You don't have to have traveled the world to get on those things because I've gotten on plenty of newspapers and media outlets way before that, way before I had done any of those things way, way, way, way before. Again, and like what you said, If you then combine it with adding some social proof there, running a Facebook ads campaign where there's engagement and people really supporting it and showing that they're loving your video too, that helps a lot.

Kristine Mirelle:
I was able to get on all those networks even without it. But adding that now would absolutely be really, really valuable. So, I'm glad you brought that up, because that's a really great strategy.

Michael Walker:
Could you talk a little bit about I mean, I know we talked a little bit about how as a musician, something doesn't come from nothing, right? You invest either your time, you invest your money, but in some cases, you can invest a little bit of money to save a whole lot of time. And I know you, in particular, have spent a lot of time, a lot of energy, really pulling together a lot of the resources that in terms of contact lists and places to reach out to. So, can you talk a little bit about what you have that you can offer to people here when it comes to those types of contact lists? And also, just for anyone who resonated with our talk today who wants to connect more with you personally, where would be the best place to go to learn more?

Kristine Mirelle:
Yeah, absolutely. With reaching out to media, with reaching out to ... Because I've reached out to a lot, managers, producers, I'm very, very passionate about being proactive, not just posting videos and hoping someone reaches out to you. So, throughout the last few years, we've created a lot of different lists of radio stations, college radio stations, blogs, magazines, record labels, just about music lawyers who shop music for record deals, publishing companies that get your music on TV and movies and films and that sort of thing.

Kristine Mirelle:
So, we have a lot. I mean, we have probably collectively like 20,000 contacts for those types of things where someone doesn't have to do all the research where they can just go and go, "Okay, I make this style of music. If I make this style of music, who should I reach out to? What's their email? What's their Instagram?" That sort of thing. So, I do have those. And actually, most of my material is on musichustler.com. I've talked about the hustler mentality. Everyone is always telling me that, "You're such a hustler." So, I just thought, "Man, that really resonates with me."

Kristine Mirelle:
And I've just put together a program as well that shows everyone how I created a six figure music career starting from absolutely nothing every step of the way. Every hack that I did, how I reached out to every TV station and radio station, and then how I turned the mentality of just really hustling and working hard to working smart, and how much faster I got results.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. Well, Kristine, you're awesome. I really appreciate you ...

Kristine Mirelle:
Thank you, Michael. And thank you so much for putting all this together. I know that there's a lot of work here. And all the people that I've recommended to come join, I mentioned to you earlier, they've just been so complimentary of you and everybody really likes and appreciates you. And I think finding people who actually care about the audience, I mean, you're just a really genuine person. So, thank you for inviting me to be a part of it. It's an honor for me. And thank you for allowing this event for people to get education in one place in one event. So, I applaud you, too, for doing that. Thank you.

Michael Walker:
Thank you. That means a lot. Yeah. And I really appreciate you being a part of it.

Michael Walker:
Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today and support the podcast. And there's few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends on your social media, tag us, that really helps us out. And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take their music career to the next level. It's time to be a modern musician now and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.