Michael Walker: Yeah. All right. I'm excited to be here today with my new friend, Ross Barber-Smith. Ross is the founder of Electric Kiwi. He launched Electric Kiwi in 2011, providing web design and branding services for musicians—from indie artists to Billboard-topping stars. He has had coverage in outlets like Hypebot and TuneCore. He also co-hosts a video podcast called Bridge the Atlantic, where they spotlight musicians and creative entrepreneurs.

I can't really think of a whole lot of people who would be better suited to have a conversation today about building your website's presence—specifically, building a website that matches your artist identity. So, Ross, I appreciate you taking the time to be here on the podcast today.

Ross Barber-Smith: Hey, thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Michael: Awesome. So, let's get started. Maybe, for anyone connecting with you for the first time, you could share a little bit about your background and how you got started working with artists as it relates to web design.

Ross: Sure. So, I started out wanting to be a musician, and I went to college to study popular music. I have a degree in popular music performance, but in my last year, things kind of fell apart a little bit, and that led me on the path of wanting to do something involved in the music industry—but not on the performing side.

Going further back, I'd been designing websites since I was 12. As part of our college course, we had to do a project that involved building a website, and that ended up going really well. I thought, "Well, the performing side may not be for me, but the website side is for me." The only caveat was that it had to be for musicians because I don't really care about anything else, really.

I couldn't find a job doing that, so I took a job doing websites for hotels and accommodations. It was a good way to learn how to work with clients, but at the same time, I didn't really care about those clients. I was doing some freelance work on the side, and it got to a point where it was time to take the leap.

I connected with an artist I had been a fan of for many years on Twitter. She said she was looking for an intern in LA, and I was like, "Eh, I'm not in LA, but I am who you're looking for. Can we make something happen?" To my surprise, she said yes, and then she introduced me to my first paying client. From there, it kind of snowballed—just taking that chance and doing work that people were happy with led to more work.

So, it's been, what, 13 or 14 years now? And I'm still doing it. So, I'm pretty happy with that.

Michael: Awesome. Well, I mean, you've been doing it for 15 years, and one of the first things I noticed when I went to your website was, Wow, this is very well designed.

So, you've definitely picked up tools of the trade over the past 15 years. And I'm sure, working with artists for over a decade now, you've probably noticed some of the same challenges, mistakes, or issues they face when they first start working on their websites.

I'd love to hear your perspective on what some of those biggest mistakes or challenges are that artists might be facing when it comes to their websites.

Ross: Yeah, I think it varies from artist to artist, depending on the team they have around them—or if they don't have a team at all. There are definitely challenges around what they should include on their website and the visual direction they take.

I think it's tempting to want to dive in and go full bells and whistles, but maybe that's not actually appropriate for what you need. Maybe that’s not really going to work.

When an artist comes to me, one of the first things I want to find out is: Where are things right now in your career? And what do you have coming up in the next six to twelve months? That really helps guide what we need to focus on as the main focal point, content-wise. It also helps guide the visual direction.

For example, if it's a new album, we're probably going to theme the website around the visuals of the album. If it's a tour, then we want to make sure the tour dates and tickets are really easy for people to find. You don’t want people to have to hunt around for what you're guiding them toward.

So, yeah, purpose is the big thing I like to find out from clients. Sometimes that can be a challenge, but most of the time, if you have an album coming out or a tour coming up, you know that’s the main thing.

Reining it in is one of the big challenges—setting realistic expectations and knowing how your website is going to serve your audience.

Michael: Super helpful. Yeah, so it sounds like what you're saying is that the place to start is by clarifying the main purpose—the main thing you want to bring attention to.

It’s easy to go overboard and want your website to do everything, but that might not actually serve the audience. If you know the most important thing to focus on is a new release or an upcoming tour, then figuring out your goal for the next six to twelve months is a good place to start.

Ross: Exactly. Your audience is who you’re serving. Obviously, with an artist website, it's about representing yourself and showcasing your music in a way that matches your overall brand and identity.

The other challenging part is pulling that identity out.

If I were to give one solid piece of advice that will help—not just with your website, but also with your social media, album artwork, single artwork, anything visual—it’s this: Find a great photographer and get as many amazing shots as you can.

Good photography will serve you way more than almost anything else you can invest your money in. It goes such a long, long way.

Michael: Absolutely. So, it sounds like one thing you definitely recommend not slacking on is finding a photographer to capture footage, so that the photos you take truly represent your identity in a professional way.

Ross: Yep. It elevates things more than I can even put into words. From a designer’s perspective, it's so much easier to work with great photography.

Michael: Awesome.

What do you see as the role of video content when it comes to web design? Do you think it's equally important to have high-quality video? And as a designer, what’s your favorite tool belt to work with?

Ross: I mean, video is great. I think I would normally say, content-wise, you probably want to have at least one really solid music video that represents you as an artist. Because I think that can be used in so many different ways—it can be used on your socials, it can be used on the website.

I definitely think it's worth investing in at least one really solid video. I know there's a lot of debate right now about whether music videos are important anymore or whether short-form content is the way to go. And I think that can vary a bit depending on who your audience is.

One solid video that can be used as the main kind of introduction to you on your website, that can then be split up into shorter videos for socials, is really going to be helpful. And I guess if you're looking to use video in a design, I know a lot of people like to use a video background behind some text. I think that can also work really well as long as it's not too distracting.

Michael: Okay, awesome. Yeah. So normally, you recommend getting at least one really high-quality music video, and then you can repurpose that for social media. You can do a lot with that one video as long as it represents you.

Cool. One question that I'm curious to hear your perspective on is sort of a contrast. As a designer, you probably see a lot of websites. You probably see a lot of not-so-well-done websites from artists, and you've seen a lot that you absolutely love—and you've created some that you absolutely love.

So, I'm curious. What are some of the big things that stick out immediately when you browse an artist's website that make you go, "Oh, it almost hurts me just to see this" because it's such a glaring issue, but maybe something that people aren't even aware they're doing?

Ross: Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. There's probably a lot of visual things that come down more to personal taste rather than being something that's outright wrong. But I would say one of the big things that kind of drives me nuts is when there's no contact information.

To me, that's such an important thing to include on your website because you could be missing out on opportunities to be interviewed on podcasts, label interest, management interest, or people trying to book you for a show. And if they have no way of contacting you, you could be missing out.

That's probably more of a content thing, but it’s surprising to me actually how many people don’t have that—it's a lot.

From a design perspective, the kind of things that irk me and tell me that a website is not professionally done or professionally minded are low-resolution photography and badly written bios.

Those two things instantly make me think that this artist is not working at a professional level. And that's not always the case—sometimes it’s just an unfortunate side effect of having a poor bio or poor photography.

But if that's what it's saying to me, then it's probably what it's saying to industry people who are visiting the website—and possibly even fans. If they feel like it's not up to scratch, they might not be as willing to invest in following you on social media or streaming your music because their first impression isn't right.

Michael: Yeah, I feel like it's one of those things that sometimes can be hard to quantify because it's something you have to see to fully grasp.

But when you go to a website and it's really good, you immediately go, "Whoa." It makes an impression on you—it speaks for itself. The quality speaks for itself.

We make gut-level assumptions just based on the quality of something we see.

On the flip side, I also think about my background in digital marketing, funnels, and building systems for growing businesses. And I think sometimes there's a disconnect—people want to appear a certain way, but even if they look awesome or shiny, if they don’t actually have things set up in a functional way, then they're missing a lot of opportunities.

Like you just mentioned, if they’re missing a contact form on their website, it’s like, "Wow." It doesn't matter how shiny your car is if you don’t have an engine to drive it anywhere.

So, from a designer’s perspective, what’s your general thought process around the functionality of a website? What would your advice be to an artist who wants both an amazing website that reflects well and positions them with quality, but also something that’s effective as a business generator?

Ross: Yeah. That is sometimes a hurdle. Some of the requests that a client might make come from a creative standpoint without taking into account the functionality that's needed.

So that can sometimes be an opportunity to educate and slightly change the direction because functionality has to be the most important thing. A website can look interesting, nice, and creative, but if you're not getting any results from it, it's just a fancy-looking piece of art.

And sometimes that’s what an artist wants, but it’s not what they need.

So, it’s about finding that balance between what they want and what they need—how it’s going to serve both them as an artist and the people who are visiting their site.

If I were to rank things, functionality would actually be at the top, and then design or visual elements would be second. A close second—they should work together. But I don’t think functionality should ever be sacrificed for the visual aspect.

Michael: Awesome. That definitely makes sense.

So generally, you want to have both, but functionality is the core purpose of the website. You want to make sure that’s handled first.

In terms of functionality, where would you recommend an artist start? I know you mentioned it depends on their goals—whether they have an upcoming album, a tour, or something else. But from your experience, what are some of the most effective or great examples of websites that artists should consider as they think about their own website and try to decide what their core function should be?

Ross: I think the advice I would give is to make a list of what you’ve got going on and where you’d like people to go.

Think about it from the perspective of, "Right, I have a new album. What do I need on the website to support that album?"

An obvious thing would be to have the album artwork and streaming or purchase links somewhere very easy for people to find. So, make sure you’ve got all those in order.

Does your bio reference the new album? No? Okay, let’s get that updated and make sure there’s a reference to the album in there.

Are you looking to get some press around the album? If so, then you probably want to have an electronic press kit on the website so that it’s easy for bloggers and podcasters to get the information they need. And then a press section where you can post all the press coverage you get.

The other thing to support that would be: Are there any videos to accompany that release? If so, they should be on the website as they come out.

And going back to the all-important contact information—do people have a way to reach you if they want to sync or license your music? Or do you just want to have a way for people to ask you questions? They might want to know more about the lyrics—who knows?

If you're touring, what do you need in order to promote the tour? For most artists, it’s something like Bandsintown or Songkick, because that gives you an easy way to list dates and for people to buy tickets.

And if you're stuck and need inspiration, try to find three or four artists at a similar level or maybe just slightly above you and look at their websites.

Don’t go all in looking at A-list celebrity websites—because to be frank, a lot of them don’t have the same needs as an independent artist does.

They’re not designed with the same approach independent artists need.

So, while it’s nice to look at them for visual inspiration, functionality-wise, I’d be looking at artists who are at the same level or slightly more established—because that’s where you should be aiming.

Michael: Yeah. I think sometimes it's easy to look at the biggest artists in the world and try to replicate that, not realizing that before they were the biggest artists in the world, they actually started here. These were the steps they took to get there, as opposed to just trying to jump ahead a hundred steps. So that makes a lot of sense.

Okay, so I'm curious—just personally curious—about the tools you use, the platforms. When you're working with artists, do you generally custom-create websites nowadays, or are there specific website builders that you find work really well for artists?

What do you recommend for most people listening to this right now who might be looking at the actual functionality? Maybe they work with you and then want to make a tweak on something, and they're wondering what's the best way to do that. What's been your experience there?

Ross: The way that I work is I use WordPress for all the websites I build for artists, partly because you own it completely. The website isn’t tied to another platform that could hike their costs up, so that's one of the main reasons I use it.

I build a custom theme for every client and provide a user guide so they can make day-to-day updates moving forward—adding a new release, new shows, bio updates, all that kind of thing. When it comes to design changes, normally they'll come to me, and we'll work together on those.

There are plenty of more DIY platforms, like Squarespace and Wix, which I think work well for artists who want to give it a shot themselves. You can do pretty nice work if you're willing to invest the time in learning how to use the platform, but personally, they’re just not something that I use myself.

The other reason I like to do a custom theme for each project is that every artist is different, so I feel their website should be unique to them. That gives me the flexibility to not be tied to a specific template or structure when we're building it, and we can really tailor it to the artist's vision.

Michael: Cool. Okay. WordPress—I don’t have a ton of personal experience with it, but I do know it's been around for a very long time and is an established platform. It allows you to create customized themes so that everyone can really have their own space and something unique.

I'm curious about monetization. We talked a little bit about website functionality and plugging those into something like an album release. Have you seen any creative things that people are doing with their websites to monetize their careers and generate sustainable income?

What are some of the best ideas or recommendations you have for artists using websites to monetize their music?

Ross: For artists, I think the big one is merch sales because you can make quite a good amount of money by selling merch from your site.

I would say merch is probably the biggest one. Other things I've seen artists do—still related to merch—are selling more personalized items, which can work really well. If you're an artist known for your lyrics and people always tell you they connect with them, selling handwritten lyrics personalized to the buyer can be a great option.

I have a few clients who do that, and these aren't artists with tens of millions of followers. They just have a dedicated fan base, and that's something their fans have asked for. So I think part of it is listening to what your audience wants and providing things they’re willing to spend money on—especially if it’s personal and not something they can find anywhere else.

Platforms like Patreon and other crowdfunding options are really good to integrate with a website as well.

In 2025, I think we're moving towards personalization, authenticity, and things that feel special. With all the talk around AI and everything going on right now, anything you can provide that feels like it’s coming from you—a real human and an artist they love—is going to be key.

So I would be thinking of ways to offer products and experiences through your website and store that fans won’t be able to get anywhere else.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah, it's a really interesting time to be alive and making music. With the rise of AI, it sounds like you're saying that part of that wave is going to create more of a need for authenticity—making people feel like they’re really connecting with you and not just a robot.

The more you lean into doing things that would be really hard for AI to do... I wonder what that's going to look like. It seems like AI is getting really good at doing everything.

It reminds me of captchas—those things where you have to prove you’re human. Now, instead of just checking a box, you have to stand on one leg, turn your head sideways, match a puzzle piece to a college thesis statement, and then prove you're human.

Ross: I had the puzzle piece one when I was trying to buy tickets on Ticketmaster. I thought, "I'm going to run out of time because this question is so hard!"

Michael: Yeah! It's like, "Make sure they’re facing the right way, but also take the number of dogs on the screen and divide it by pi."

What are your thoughts on that? Do you think artists should try to "zig" when everyone else is "zagging"—going all in on the human, personal side of things? Or do you think it’s also important to explore AI tools, especially in web design? I’m curious to hear your thoughts as a web designer.

Ross: Yeah, I’ve used AI here and there, mostly for problem-solving. If I'm coding and something isn’t working, I find it really useful to copy and paste the section of code into ChatGPT and ask what's wrong. Sometimes, it solves it instantly, and I think, "Great, I’ve saved myself an hour and a half of pain." Other times, it doesn’t solve it, but the answer it gives triggers something in my memory that leads me to the solution.

As a designer, I also find it useful when an artist sends me their bio. If the structure is fine but the grammar is off, I’ll put it into ChatGPT and say, "Don't change the words, just make this grammatically correct." That saves me from having to tell the artist they need to rewrite their bio, when in reality, it just needs polishing.

I think it’s definitely useful to get familiar with AI tools and see how they can improve your workflow. Rather than replacing what you do, AI can assist in making things easier. That’s where I stand on it.

It’s a thin line between letting AI do everything for you and using it as an assistant. I prefer to lean toward AI as a tool that supports me rather than replacing what I do entirely.

Michael: Yeah, I think that’s a good angle. Hopefully, no one’s saying, "Yeah, just replace us entirely."

Although, maybe some people are... but I don’t think a lot of artists feel that way. We enjoy the creative part—that’s why we make music or create any kind of artwork.

It sounds like you’re saying AI can be a helpful tool for brainstorming creative ideas or fixing specific code issues. You’d recommend people use AI and be familiar with it, but as a tool to enhance their creativity rather than replace themselves entirely.

Ross: Yeah, because I mean, I've also used the Photoshop AI tools to help fix some issues. So, for example, if a client sends me a picture in portrait mode, but I really need a landscape shot, I find that their AI tools are really good for extending the size of the image.

And sometimes it works not so well. Other times, it's amazing. So it's been a lifesaver in that respect. But I have found— I don't know if you've ever used the AI generation tools on images that have text in them— the text comes out as nonsense.

Michael: Yeah, it's starting to get quite a bit better, but 100%. Text is one of those things where it was almost humorously bad for a long time. And now it's often pretty good, but sometimes it's still a little bit...

Ross: Sometimes it's a bit wonky. But that sometimes just makes me laugh, and it kind of reminds me— right, we're not being replaced just yet. We've got a good year or two before that happens.

Michael: Yeah, not yet. It's wild. I mean, wild. But like, what if you were to explain what's happening right now to someone 500 years ago? They'd be like, "What? This is a magical thing. You can communicate across the world. What kind of witchcraft or wizardry is this?"

What we're doing right now— we're just like, "What? You can talk to someone who's not actually there in real-time across the world through a portal in a little thing you hold in your hand?" Like, what? That's insane.

And now with AI, you can just be like, "Hey, do this." And like magic, it just happens. Man, just wild.

Ross: It is. And even just thinking back 10, 20 years ago, half of the stuff that we can do now, we couldn't even do. So things move fast— really fast.

Michael: Absolutely. I tend to lean in the direction you're talking about as well— in terms of these being powerful tools that, at their best, augment our creativity and potential. They don't necessarily have to replace that part of it, but they can be used to brainstorm ideas.

I heard an interesting point about how most people used to be farmers— like 90-something percent of people just spent their time farming. Then, technology came along and sort of quote-unquote replaced all the labor that we used to spend time and energy on. And that freed up time and energy to do different things, create new jobs, new roles, and new creative opportunities.

Over time, technology tends to lean toward creativity. When technology advances, it actually opens up space for us to do more thought work— more things that are idea-based. And then turning those ideas into actual things becomes faster and easier.

So I'm hopeful that AI and this technology will lead to just more of that. But who knows? Some experts say there's a 5-10% chance this could be what wipes out humanity.

Ross: I'm hoping they're wrong. I mean, 5-10%... it's higher than I'd like that number to be. But that's still on the low end, so...

Michael: Yeah.

Ross: Fingers crossed. Hopefully, we can find a...

Michael: High enough to be pretty unsettling, though. But yeah, I'm optimistic. I think it's going to be a good thing. But also, we can't just put our heads in the sand about it— it's a pretty serious threat level.

Anyway, Ross, I appreciate you coming on here and sharing some of your wisdom and experience in web design— helping artists discover their identity and express themselves. And also, putting out a version of themselves that they feel proud of while also making it functional so they can connect with their fans more directly.

For anyone listening or watching right now who is interested in connecting with you or potentially reaching out about web design work, what would be the best place to go?

Ross: It's going to come as a surprise— I'm going to share my website. So it's Electric Kiwi— as in the bird or the fruit, whichever you prefer— dot co dot UK. So electrickiwi.co.uk.

I'm on Instagram, Twitter— everywhere, basically— as Electric Kiwi. So you'll find me. More than happy to chat with people. Reach out, and I can answer any questions you might have.

Michael: As always, we'll put all the links in the show notes for easy access.

And Electric Kiwi— there's something about that name I really like. It creates a very visceral memory for me. Like, I'm biting into a kiwi, but it's juicy and electrifying— like a shot. It's a good name.

Ross: Thank you! Please don't ask where the name came from, though, because the story behind it is basically a non-story. It's not that exciting.

But the one funny thing is that everyone assumes I'm from New Zealand because of "Kiwi." And I've actually had New Zealanders reach out to me like, "Oh, I'm so excited to work with someone from New Zealand!" And I'm like, "I'm so sorry, I'm not that guy."

But it's a good conversation starter, and people like the name. So I'm glad to hear it's memorable.

Although, one of my clients— when she couldn't remember the name after hearing me on a podcast— she started Googling "exotic parrot" because that's what she thought it was.

Michael: Parrot?

Ross: Yeah, she did find me eventually. And we ended up working together, which was nice.

Michael: I mean, that's a fun journey— a fun side quest.

Ross: Yeah. I actually sat with her and tried to work backward, like, "How did you get from 'exotic parrot' to 'Electric Kiwi'?" It took her a while to figure it out, but it was nice to know she invested the time trying to find me. And I'm glad she did in the end.

Michael: Awesome. Well, Ross, this has been great today. Thanks for taking the time to be here. As always, I'll put the links in the show notes for easy access. Looking forward to talking again soon.

Ross: Thanks very much. Thanks for having me.

Michael: YEAAAH!