Michael Walker: Yeah. All right. So I'm excited to be here today with my new friend, Sarah Beth Perry. Sarah is the founder and CEO of With the Band. She created Fan Crew, a platform that helps artists connect with and monetize their fan base through features like private messaging, virtual meet-and-greets, and live streams—all at no startup cost for artists.

She's also been a fan engagement leader since 2017. She’s launched successful fan activations, including the Jonas Brothers’ Comeback Project and Kacey Musgraves’ Rainbow Project. She's an award-winning entrepreneur, recognized as one of Belmont University's Top 100 Alumni Entrepreneurs, and has won multiple grants and competitions from Sigma and Launch Tennessee.

So, I’m really excited to have her on the podcast today to talk about the connection between artists and fans and some of the best ways independent artists can build a real community—things like creating a fan club around what you're doing with your music. Sarah, thank you so much for being on the podcast today!

Sarah Beth Perry: Yes, of course. Thanks for the intro. I know it's a little long-winded, but I've stayed in one segment of the industry most of my career. I feel like I’m in such a niche part that most people have no idea what I’m talking about.

Michael: Nah, you're definitely speaking my language. All these things are very cool. So, maybe to kick things off for anyone connecting with you for the first time, could you share a little bit about your story? How did you come to work on the Jonas Brothers’ projects, Kacey Musgraves’ Rainbow Project, and the platform you’ve built?

Sarah Beth: Totally. I feel like most music industry professionals and music lovers start as huge music fans. I grew up in Nashville and had no idea how unique that was until I moved to Atlanta in middle school. I remember talking about my life in Nashville and not realizing it was unusual to know artists personally.

I thought artists existed everywhere, and I thought the music industry was just a normal job. Looking back, my parents were the only ones not in music among all my friends’ parents. My parents worked in healthcare, which is the other big industry in Nashville. I was so surrounded by music that I didn’t even realize it wasn’t an option for most people.

As I got older, my sister and I became the typical teenage fangirls—we loved all the boy bands. The first band I ever remember loving was the Jonas Brothers. Getting to work with them in 2019 was such a full-circle moment for me.

Michael: Basically, you're living my wife’s dream life. She's a huge Jonas Brothers fan!

Sarah Beth: Not gonna lie, I think like every girl my age—I’m 28—thought they were going to marry a Jonas Brother at some point in their life. So knowing that it was such a full-circle moment for me is incredible. They inspired me to love music, and I joke that I’ve started two companies kind of because of them.

My love for fandom really grew from that. Back in the late 2000s or mid-2000s, being a fan was a different experience. Now that I work in all different genres, one of the biggest things I always tell students or people trying to get into the music industry is this: being a fan is your superpower. If you’re a hardcore fan, you learn things like, “Oh, this marketing campaign worked really well,” or, “This single fell flat because they didn’t do X, Y, or Z.” You’re taking all of that in as a fan without realizing how much of it can transfer into a job when you start working with artists.

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. Being on the receiving end as a superfan gives you great context to understand what works, what doesn’t, and what you really want. Cool. Could you share a little more about the details of the Comeback Project? How exactly did that work?

Sarah Beth: I always say there’s every reason this shouldn’t have worked. Everything was stacked against the odds for me on this one. What we really did started when I was building With the Band while at Belmont University. I was a double major in music business and entrepreneurship. I always knew I wanted to do something in both spaces, but I didn’t know what until I started working with artist teams.

As a fan, I had felt this disconnect. On the artist teams, I noticed they had no idea how to listen to a fanbase to make better decisions. I started making a list of the qualities of my dream job or dream company—things like ensuring everyone in the equation benefits and no one gets screwed over. At the time, I felt many companies were either too pro-artist or too pro-fan, and one side was always losing out.

We ended up launching an app in 2019 that allowed fans and artists to create and participate in fan projects and fan meetups. If you’re not familiar, fan projects and meetups are things fans have done for hundreds of years on their own. Over time, the platforms changed—from forums and fan club sites in the ’90s to MySpace, Twitter, and beyond. It even goes back as far as the opera days in the 1700s, which is crazy to think about!

The Jonas Brothers Project was our way of announcing the app. I thought it could be a great way for fans to learn about what we were doing. I knew it would benefit artists, but I didn’t expect the level of artist interest we received so early on. At the time, I had just graduated from Belmont and had very little full-time music industry experience. I had been hustling for years, but I still felt like people might not take me seriously because I was young, inexperienced, and trying to bring light to something often looked down upon—teenage fangirls.

I believed there was power in fandom that hadn’t been fully harnessed. My vision was to create a system where fans support the artist, the artist supports the fans, and it snowballs from there. That’s still my goal with any project or client I work with today.

For the Jonas Brothers project, we printed 16,000 signs that said, “Thank you for coming back to us.” If you don’t know their history, they were a band for about 10 years before breaking up. There was a lot of tension—they weren’t even spending Christmas together at one point—so their reunion was a big deal. This was during their reunion tour, and we planned for fans to hold the signs up during their song Comeback. The instructions were printed on the back of the signs.

Nine of us carried in clear bags filled with the signs. Normally, fan projects like this are on a much smaller scale—30 people, maybe—and are often disorganized. This was something entirely new. I had no idea if it was going to work, but it did. It worked even better than I imagined. During the song, the brothers rise onto podiums one by one, so each one saw the signs at a different moment. It created this incredible emotional buildup.

By the end of the song, all three of them were sobbing on stage. I joke that when I’m having a bad day, I’ll go watch the YouTube video. Joe Jonas’s face is absolutely soaked with tears—it’s priceless.

Michael: I can almost guarantee that if I tell this story to my wife, she’ll know exactly what you’re talking about. She might have even been there! She’s been to so many Jonas Brothers shows.

Sarah Beth: I had no idea it would go over that well, and it was trending on Twitter for two days. Everyone on Twitter was like, “Who the heck did this?” because the concept of a company helping to do this had never really existed. The closest thing that exists is within the K-pop realm.

They are so ahead of the game when it comes to fan engagement—it’s crazy. They do a lot of fan meetups and fan projects on larger scales, but they’re often supported by the artists, with platforms that help them do it. My idea was to bring back this sense of community—like the fan clubs of the past. Let’s all support each other.

I think we’ve all met so many of our best friends through music. That’s always been my goal: when someone tells me they’ve met a friend through my platform and they’re now hanging out, that’s what keeps me going every day. When I look back on my life, so many of my closest friends were made because of a band. We’d go to shows together or have these shared experiences tied to music.

That’s definitely the most special part for me. I know I’m going off on a tangent, but that’s how we did the Jonas Brothers project. After that, we got so much more interest from other artists. Fans were super excited, too. I stayed up for 32 hours after it launched because I couldn’t sleep. Our socials were blowing up, and I was trying to answer all the messages and emails, making sure everything was set up properly since we had just launched.

It was a whirlwind, but it was one of the best moments of my life. I was sobbing—crying happy tears. It was crazy but amazing.

Michael: That’s so cool. So it sounds like the platform you’ve built is really born from you being a superfan yourself. You’ve seen how challenging it can be for fans to stay organized and create projects to support artists. With this platform, fans can come together, create projects, and stay organized.

I’m not sure how much you know about Modern Musician or the software we’ve been developing, but it’s called StreetTeam. It has a similar heart and purpose—connecting artists and fans. I’d love to explore integrations or ways our platforms could complement each other.

Sarah Beth: Yeah, because fans need it. We started with fan projects, and everything was going great. Then COVID hit, and we couldn’t do arena-sized events anymore. That’s what sent me on a deep dive—exploring what tools are out there for artists.

I have such a heart for both sides. Now that I’m working with artist teams, I want the fans to get the best experience, but I also want the artists to get the best deal. There are so few tools that truly benefit both. For example, texting your audience is great, but it costs a lot of money, you don’t own the data, and the fans think they’re building a relationship with the artist—only to find out it’s not as direct as they thought.

I basically made a list of what my friends and colleagues—people working in marketing, at labels, or as managers—liked or disliked about the current tools. There are so many bad ones out there. It’s clear the industry really needs better solutions.

Michael: A hundred percent. It’s so interesting to look at the music industry landscape right now. On one hand, platforms like Spotify make it more accessible than ever to listen to and stream music. But on the other hand, it’s so difficult for artists to build real relationships, communities, or even just contact their listeners.

Having experienced both sides—being a fan and working with artists—what do you think are some of the biggest challenges right now when it comes to building fan communities? And what creative strategies have you seen artists using to overcome those challenges?

Sarah Beth: That's a really great question. I think two of the main things, one being more of a day-to-day issue to solve, is data. The music business is funny because a lot of times—I heard this from a man on a panel probably seven years ago at a Billboard Touring Awards—he said, "You look at any other industry, like consumer goods, a car company, whatever, they make their products based on what the customer wants. But the music industry is the only industry where we make the product based on what the artist wants and then put it out."

It's not as consumer-centric, and that really stuck with me. I think we're slowly shifting away from that—slowly but also fast in the sense of platforms like TikTok. I was having this conversation yesterday with some people in Nashville about how everyone's now testing out singles on TikTok before they even declare them as singles of the album. They’re putting out three songs, seeing which one does best, and that's the one they declare the single.

It’s a pro and a con. You’re able to reach more people than ever before, but there’s so much out there that you really have to make an impact. I think there’s something very true from an artist’s perspective. Like, I’ll say this—I don’t play guitar or piano. I don’t Nashville-play. I can play like Keith Urban—I can play four chords, you know?

Michael: Hey, if you’ve got four chords, you can play a lot of things.

Sarah Beth: But I think that’s one of the hardest things about dealing with artists on a daily basis—having that conversation about how much they should be creating for themselves versus creating for others. Where I’ve seen people absolutely shine is when they’re creating music for themselves, but the way they release it is strategic for the audience they want to reach.

That’s where you see artists who are the happiest because they’ve garnered a fan base that likes them for who they are and not for some false image.

Going back to data—there’s just so much that artists are using, but they’re not getting any data from it. Whether it’s Instagram or TikTok, they can see overarching demographics, but they can’t message Susie Lou from Wisconsin when they have a new single. Instagram will show their posts to like 7% of their audience.

One of the biggest trends I’m seeing in music is how artists can own their audience and get back to that.

On the other hand, one thing I’d regret not mentioning is the issue of “crazy fans.” We’re seeing artists like Chapel Hart and others talking about it. I think there’s a fine line between fans being respectful versus not.

There are strategies artists can implement, and platforms can help foster those relationships. That way, when fans meet artists in person, there’s a bit more of a barrier to maintain safety. It’s about learning those boundaries for the artist and creating strategies around them—whether it’s album releases, social content, or everything else.

I think a lot of people today say, “You have to do content. It sucks, and it takes a lot of time.” But then I have artists like Zach Top, who, if you look at his content, it’s all just him singing. He’s not doing any crazy TikTok dances or random trends. He came up on my For You page last night because he was riding a scooter around some random city doing something funny, but he doesn’t create content like that.

A lot of times, people argue that you have to create that type of content to be a big artist now, but I don’t think that’s true. I think you have to find your differentiator and lean into it, building your strategy around that.

Michael: Awesome. Lots of good stuff there.

It sounds like one of the big challenges is around data and ownership. On social media platforms, artists don’t have the ability to directly connect with their fans. They have to rely on the algorithm to show their content. So, there’s a shift towards ownership, like building email lists or using platforms where there’s direct fan connection.

One interesting point you brought up is about the market. Generally, in other industries, you have a service that fulfills a need, and the need comes first. People then create a product to fulfill that. But with music and art, you’re starting with authentic expression and reverse-engineering it for the market.

For an artist listening right now who hasn’t established a community or a fan relationship yet—who maybe feels like they’re out on their own, like in the middle of an ocean—they might say, “I have this music, and I’m trying to be authentic, but I also need to build a community and serve a need.”

What are some of the best strategies you’ve found for helping artists make that connection?

Sarah Beth: So one spot I start with a lot of beginning artists, or even people just getting into music and trying to learn the business side—like how to support or market an artist—is by building an ideal fan persona.

I think where we've seen a lot of artists struggle is when they try to switch their target audience. I'm trying to think of a good example. Obviously, the absolute best at doing this are people like Shania Twain or Taylor Swift—artists who successfully transitioned from country to other genres. But we've also seen some epic failures, where artists end up going back to their original genre.

One of the biggest things is that when you're starting out, you have to figure out: who is my ideal fan? I go super in-depth with this. We even have a resource on the With the Band website—it’s a fan engagement workbook that goes through persona-building. I do this with every artist we work with. When we bring in a new client, our whole team does this together because it helps with every decision.

For example: Where does this fan shop in person? You start with higher-level details like their age, average gender, location, and language. Then you get down to specifics: where do they shop in person? What social media platforms do they spend the most time on? This helps you narrow down where to focus your time and energy.

One of the hardest things for artists is that there are so many platforms out there—it’s like analysis paralysis. If I were a new artist starting out, and my average fan was a 25-year-old female, I’d probably spend more of my time on TikTok. I’d try to book shows at venues with a similar audience, even if they’re a different genre. I’d also look into partnerships with brands that share the same target demographic—like a skincare or makeup brand.

Even smaller artists can thrive by doing this. Some of my friends who are smaller artists make a living off music because they’ve built partnerships—even “smaller” partnerships—that benefit them. So my main advice is: figure out your target fan and work towards getting in front of them—digitally, in person, through brands, companies, or your local scene. Just get in front of them.

Michael: Super smart. So it sounds like what you’d recommend is starting out by getting clear on who your ideal fan is. Once you know that, you can explore where they hang out, what brands they like, and so on. From there, you can reach out to those brands or influencers to build relationships. That’s a great way to establish a foundation.

Sarah Beth: Totally.

Michael: Cool. For someone who wants to go deeper into creating their ideal fan but feels stuck, do you have any recommendations for how they can reflect and figure that out? Because there’s also that balance—you might think your ideal fans are one group, but then you realize they’re different. How do you recommend navigating that discovery process?

Sarah Beth: Yeah, this is an ongoing process. I do this for every artist at every show I go to. It can be as simple as looking at what clothing items most of the audience is wearing. Are they wearing mostly baseball hats or sweatshirts? Is there a certain brand or trendy item they all have?

When you’re stuck, start with whatever data you already have. Look at the demographics from a YouTube video, Spotify streams, Facebook page, or whatever platform you’re using. If you’re a big hometown artist, think about which group of people typically comes out to your shows.

Go even further. What are these people doing on weekends? Are they attending a lot of shows, or are they just listening to playlists without knowing the artists they’re hearing? Start by defining who your current fan is and then outline your ideal fan. These two groups often change, especially as you’re starting out and growing.

One example is Kacey Musgraves. If you listen to her first album, it sounds completely different from her latest one. She was able to transition because she made music that was a creative outlet for her, but it was marketed to the correct audience. They didn’t market a “biscuits and gravy” song to LA, but now they’re marketing her newer albums to that audience.

Start by identifying your current demographic and your target goal. Then take small steps to get into the spaces where your goal audience is. It can be as simple as busking and seeing who gives you money, or going to events where you can get feedback on your music. That’s where you start.

Michael: Super smart. Yeah, this reminds me of when my band was first starting out of high school. We were really struggling to figure out how to build an audience in Vermilion, South Dakota, beyond just our friends and family. And the thing that really broke through for us was we noticed we went out to see All Time Low perform, and they were our favorite band growing up. They had this huge line of fans, like thousands of people waiting outside the venue. [00:26:00] We thought, “You know, if someone likes All Time Low, maybe they’d like our music too.” So we started walking up to those people, introducing ourselves, and sharing some of our music. I was like a super shy, awkward kid, so that process didn’t come naturally at all. I was shaking and stuttering as we walked up to people. But what we found is that the response was amazing. Those were like the super fans you’re describing—the people that actually come together, the ideal fans, who spend money to be at a show.

As you're sharing this, it just sort of clicks for me. I'm remembering, like, yeah, just going to live shows, connecting with the people there—it’s probably one of the main things that everyone who wants to build a strong connection with their fanbase should do. Literally, people coming together for the main purpose of music is a great way to get to know others and see who the really dedicated fans are.

Sarah Beth: Exactly. And I think that's a really great, tangible example of getting in front of your target demographic. That's how I did all the research before I started With the Band. I would go to these shows where I knew fans would wait outside in line, and just talk with them, have a conversation. We’ve done different things, like simply having conversations, creating a little photo booth, or giving out branded waters. Some amphitheaters allowed you to bring in a sealed bottle of water, so I’d always take advantage of that.

If you're a reader, there’s a great book called The Third Door. It’s all about the concept of how most people try to get in the front door, and some sneak in the back, but usually there's a third, random way to get in. That's how I feel I’ve had most of my "random" success—because I was willing to try super out-of-the-box ideas that people told me I couldn’t do. I thought, “Why not try?” If they say, “Take it down,” I’ll take it down.

I think it’s a brilliant idea—if you have an artist who has a target demographic, go talk to them. Say, "Hey, I just came out with a new song similar to this, or I did a cover of their song." There’s this mentality now with social media that if you say you’re an artist, people are like, “Oh, I want to know them first.” They’re really fans, and they’re going to want to be part of it, even if they have no idea who you are.

This is a random social experiment—if any of you and your friends want to try it: have one of your friends who's not famous just start taking pictures with your other friends. People will be like, “Oh my gosh, I have to take a picture too,” because they’ll think it’s someone famous they don’t know. So, I think that’s how you have to be as an artist: fake it ‘til you make it, and get those fans where they are, which is at shows.

Michael: That’s awesome. This strategy we used actually worked so well the first time we did it. There were six of us in the band, and we split into groups of two. For about six and a half months, that’s all we did—walk up to fans waiting in lines for shows. Because of that, we ended up selling 24,000 CDs and got on the radar of All Time Low. That led to our first breakout tour: opening for All Time Low.

It’s a nice reminder of the whole story and everything you’re describing about connecting with fans—where do they congregate? I also really like the out-of-the-box ideas you shared, like setting up a photo booth. That’s a brilliant idea—having someone actually come to document and take photos and videos. I remember that when we were nobody, just a band from South Dakota, people still wanted to take pictures with me. They’d want me to sign their CDs. When people in line saw me signing CDs, they’d be like, “Oh, who is this guy?” There’s definitely some wisdom in there.

Sarah Beth: Yeah, totally. And I feel like that’s been more amplified with this whole “If you didn’t post it, did it even happen?” culture. Everyone wants to act like they’re the hero of their own story. So, I think that’s genius that y’all did that back then, and it still works just as well today.

Michael: Cool. Well, Sarah, this has been a really fun conversation, not only exploring the artist side of things but also the fan side and community. I'd love to hear a little bit more about the platform that you've built. For someone listening or watching right now who's either an artist or a fan of an artist, could you share more about how the platform works and how someone can sign up for it?

Sarah Beth: Yeah, totally. So, our new fan crew platform really came out of COVID. It was born from me making a list of what artist teams like using, what they don’t like using, what fans like using, and what they don’t. Some of the main points we’re trying to solve are the data and direct communication issue—how can an artist directly communicate with their fans in an easy, not super expensive way? Modern technology makes it possible, but I think email lists are great, yet there's a big gap where fans can't talk to each other. And that’s how you build community. You have to have group conversations.

That was the first big piece—how do we get fans to communicate and engage? Then we realized this brings the artist a way to monetize their fans, especially during a time when no one was making money. The old fan club model used to be, like, you pay 20 bucks a year and get letters in the mail. The Beatles even had a fan club back in the day where every Christmas they’d send a vinyl of a Christmas song they’d recorded.

Fan clubs have been a thing forever, but no one updated the technology since the ‘90s. That’s what we’ve done—we’ve created a platform where it's kind of like Patreon, but for higher-level talent. It’s a more concierge service, where it’s not just, "Here’s your fan club and platform to use." It’s, "What’s your overarching strategy as an artist?" What's your one-year, five-year, and 10-year vision? How do we use your fan club to market a new song or to get fans to invite a friend to the show? It’s strategy-driven.

So, the current fan crew platform has zero startup costs for artists. When a fan purchases a fan club membership, there’s a revenue split. Artists automatically get 70%, and we deal with the random tech, live stream, etc., fees, and then keep whatever’s left. One of the biggest issues I saw was that really good solutions for these bigger artists cost a minimum of $100,000 just to start creating their own custom app. And even then, those weren’t performing well. We’ve been able to cut costs by putting everything on one app. Fans can use it on mobile, whether Android, iOS, or on the web.

We have fans from all age ranges. The youngest is technically 13, with parental supervision, and the oldest one I know of is 89. So, we’ve tried to create a platform that’s both fun and easy for anyone, whether they’re 89 or 13. I’ve always said I wanted to support as diverse an array of artists as possible, in every sense—location, genre, gender, etc. I’m learning that a lot of things are so genre-specific right now, and most people in the music industry work in these niches, so they aren’t seeing what others are doing. We've been able to take an idea that a Christian music artist is using and bring it to an Americana audience, and it’s been fascinating to see how it works.

I definitely started With the Band with a teenage fan girl perspective, but right now, most of the fans on the platform are super into country music, mostly between 30 and 40 years old. It’s been really interesting watching how to serve that audience, as well as younger fans. The best part is diving deep into each individual fanbase, learning all the different nuances and inside jokes, and then using that to the artist’s advantage—building a strategy to help grow that fanbase.

So, all that being said, you can go to withtheband.co to check it out. If you're an artist or if you're a fan, join a fan crew. It’s a lot of fun! Each artist gets to offer whatever they want to their fans at any price. Some artists offer presale codes, others do virtual meet and greets. One of the most creative things I love is Tenille Towns. After three months in one of her tiers, she writes your name on her tour trailer, and you can take photos with it at shows. So yeah, check it out, and feel free to email us if you have any questions. Everything’s on the website.

Michael: Cool. As always, we’ll put all the links in the show notes for easy access. And Sarah, I really feel a lot of alignment with you and can totally relate to your background and what you’ve created. I think there’s a lot of synergy between what we’re doing at Modern Musician and what you're building. I’m looking forward to collaborating more, and I highly recommend everyone watching this to go check out the platform.

Sarah Beth: Thanks so much. Thanks for listening, and let me know if you have any fan engagement questions. I'm always happy to help.

Michael: Awesome. Well, thanks again for being on the podcast, and I’ll talk to you again soon.

Sarah Beth: Yes, of course. Have a great rest of your day!

Michael: YEAAAH!