Michael Walker: All right. I'm excited to be here today with my two new friends, Channing and Makenzie. Channing Moreland and Makenzie Stokel are co-founders of EVA. EVA is a tech music company that helps connect artists with venues and gigs so they can make a sustainable income with their music. A little bit about Channing: she is an entrepreneur and an advocate for women in music. She was recognized by Forbes. She launched Safe Spaces in collaboration with Women in Music to help end sexual harassment in the industry. Makenzie has won a Forbes 30 Under 30 award. She has a degree from Belmont University. Together, they have combined forces to help change the world for independent musicians like yourself. I'm really excited to have them on the podcast today to share a little bit more about EVA and how indie artists can leverage up-to-date technology to get gigs and build a sustainable career. Thank you both for taking the time to be here.

Makenzie Stokel: Happy to be here. Can't wait to chat.

Michael: Absolutely. One thing I didn't mention in the bio is that you both are secretly Spider Queens from Antarctica. Hopefully, I’m not blowing your cover, but—

Makenzie: We're going to go public with it later, but it's okay.

Michael: Breaking news! Little inside joke there, but yeah. To kick things off, for anyone who's just discovering you for the first time, could you introduce yourselves a bit more, talk about the genesis of EVA, and the main purpose of the company?

Makenzie: So, Channing and I started EVA when we were in college at Belmont University in Nashville, almost 10 years ago now. We really just saw that so many up-and-coming artists and musicians were not getting paid to play. A lot of times, they would play for exposure or just for tips.

Michael: Or even worse—when you pay to play.

Makenzie: Yeah, a hundred percent. That’s totally a thing, and we just did not understand that. We were like, how is that a thing? How are people not paying for this service? This is a job, this is work, this is providing entertainment and quality to an event. So we really just started helping our friends who were in bands and songwriters and artists that we believed in, get booked at different venues or bars and restaurants around town. Then we realized there was a bigger need—private and corporate event planners looking for music when they go to have their event in other cities and they didn’t have an easy way to find talented artists.

Michael: So, EVA... how did you start building the company and the platform? How exactly does it work to help artists book these gigs?

Channing Moreland: Yes. Makenzie and I started working together a long time ago, and we began building the very beginnings of it in college when we were both at Belmont. Just after seeing, like Makenzie said, our friends being taken advantage of, and us believing there had to be a better way. We just started working with developers, building technology, and making a lot of mistakes. But we started the very beginnings of the platform back in 2015, 2016. We originally launched it on college campuses because that was just the clientele that we knew. From there, we started growing it grassroots, campus to campus. Then these corporate planners started coming to us. Fast forward to today, and we can talk a lot about the pivots we've gone through during the pandemic and what else we book now, but the platform today allows entertainers to apply to be on EVA. They can create their own profile with offerings, and they’re able to submit for ready-to-pay events. We work with brand activations, conferences, summits, and higher-end events that pay them more—typically anywhere from 4 to 10 times what a bar gig will pay. That's been a big driving force for us. The platform has grown so much, and what we do now looks very different than what we did at the very beginning.

Michael: Amazing. And if I see this correctly, it looks like you've generated over 4 million in income for entertainers across seven different cities. Is that number correct, or has it changed?

Channing: That’s old. We've now done 6 million to entertainers. So, just love that. Gotta keep it going.

Michael: Fantastic! Awesome. For independent artists who are just getting started in their careers and trying to figure out how to build their initial community, how to book the right shows, and how to make sustainable income, could you share a bit more about the process? You’ve worked with a lot of artists and seen which ones have used the platform and knocked it out of the park, and which ones maybe didn’t have the best strategy. What’s the difference between those two types of musicians?

Makenzie: Yeah, great question. I would say the very first thing any artist should do when they're wanting to get booked more and get paid gigs is have some really good video content of you performing live. This is probably the time where it does, you know, any type of gig, even if it's in front of, like, nobody or a very small audience, just having that content. That helps us so much be able to sell the artist and kind of pitch what it is that they can bring to an event. So, that's step one for sure: having some good quality live video content. Photos are great as well. Some good links, being active on social media, just so we have things that we can share with our clients.

They most times will not get to see you in person live before booking you for their events. So that's kind of the next best thing: they can watch some good videos, get a feel for who you are and your social media. And then after that, I think what's really important and has worked really well for artists in corporate is just really understanding the event planner.

They are very different than just people who work at venues or people in the music industry. Honestly, they even speak a completely different language. We find sometimes, like, they want different things. They know nothing about sound production. They don't understand why things cost what they do sometimes.

But they obviously want music and value that type of art at their event and know that it gets people dancing or whatever type of event it might be, whatever type of music it might be, they know that that's going to bring value. And some other things to understand: like really being professional, showing up on time, getting there early, even not swearing, not eating or drinking at the event—things like that.

Pretty basic, but they go a really long way at corporate events, and sometimes there are even those rules that people have to sign off on before getting to the gig.

Michael: Yeah. So, it sounds like what you're saying is, to start with, it's important that you have some good material so that people know what they're getting. If they don't see you play, if they don't know if it's a quality product, that's really important for them to have that first.

And then, one interesting point you brought up is that because these gigs, in large part, aren't just your classic bar gig that will pay a very small amount, but are actually corporate events, they have event planners who speak a different language entirely. So you kind of have to learn how to communicate with them in the right way.

And, you know, just being professional and having the fundamentals down for how you show up builds a lot of reputation and trust. So, I mean, maybe breaking some of those apart...
 The first one that you mentioned, for an artist who's watching or listening to this right now, and maybe they know they're like, "Oh, that sounds like a good idea. I know I should get live footage," but they don't really know exactly what they need or where to start. Do you have any good recommendations for them in terms of how they actually go about getting the right kind of assets and footage that will help them be successful?

Channing: Yes, and we totally know, like, sometimes it can feel daunting to hear, "Oh, I need to go get this high-quality produced footage of myself." And we have helped artists just even walk through it. It's crazy what an iPhone can do these days. And we have had artists—it's just, like, find a cool backdrop setting, just a cool area, and even perform acoustically live some of your songs and covers. We had one artist who did some really great '80s nostalgic pop and some current-day Harry Styles. We were like, "Do a quick reel of those and then throw in some originals." That right there is so much better than a vertical iPhone shot from a loud venue. It just feels a little more put together.

They can see what you can do. You're really playing to your strengths, and that took no money. So even something like that, shot with a little more intention, will go the extra mile with our clients.

Michael: Super smart. So it sounds like what you're saying is that you don't necessarily have to get, like, a full $5,000 production team to record these videos, but you know, with your iPhone, you have an amazing recording device. And when you mentioned kind of recording yourself and getting it set up with maybe a mashup or like reels, are you suggesting sort of like an Instagram reels format, where it's like a vertical video of you at home, or just getting a music video in some sort of location, regardless of whether it's actually a venue or not?

Channing: Yeah, what would be most ideal is horizontal, just so they can have a full frame, see more. And then even if you could get it on a tripod, just having it, you know, a steady hand or a friend to help. And I know that they even have some plug-in mics that go into your USB-C. There are different ways to elevate it, but even just baseline horizontal footage on a tripod is great.

And it could even be a blank wall behind you. I think it's also a chance for them to get to see you in action, get to learn a little bit more. So that would be my recommendation for low budget.

Makenzie: I would say, too, it can be hard for some types of artists to get good, quality content. For example, DJs always struggle with getting video because they don’t necessarily need as much video of them just playing music, playing other people’s songs. But in those cases, the client is going to be looking for how the audience is reacting. If they perform at an event, videos of the audience, if they’re dancing, if there are people moving around and really enjoying it, that goes a long way. So, there are different types of music where it may not make sense to just get video of you performing and doing your thing. That is definitely the best-case scenario, but a sizzle reel or chopped-up pieces of songs or performances is great as well.

Michael: Makes sense. Yeah. So, it seems like what you’re saying is that you kind of have to start with where you’re at. Ideally, you have some footage from a real show where there’s an audience, and the audience is interacting and getting into it. That’s what the event planner might be looking for, in terms of creating a good experience for the event and the crowd. But, you know, it’s also good to start out—if you don’t have anything—by recording a nice horizontal video of you performing. That seems like a good place to start. It seems like, what you’re suggesting, the best thing would be to have an actual live audio recording as opposed to creating a video that you're syncing up to a pre-recorded version so people can actually hear you perform live.

Channing: Exactly. What our clients want is to feel confident booking you based on the video. They want it to feel as real as possible so that they can say, "Hey, I haven’t had the chance to see this person live, but I can hear them well enough. I can see they’re on tune and versatile. I’ll book them based on this." So, we want it to be as real as possible.

Michael: Got it. Cool. So, moving on to the second thing you brought up about event planners and learning how to speak their lingo and communicate effectively—could you share more about some things that might fly with a typical venue booking agent but would confuse an event planner? What are some of the differences between communicating with an event planner and a venue booking agent?

Makenzie: Yes, absolutely. A big piece of what event planners are looking for is that you can be professional. That seems pretty obvious: showing up on time, not swearing on stage, not making inappropriate jokes, and avoiding any subject you wouldn’t want your grandma to hear. Just being really clean is very important at corporate events. Not drinking is a big one, and not eating off a buffet unless otherwise agreed upon. Sometimes they do allow you to eat, but that would be specified in the contract or the rider.

The sound production is always a big piece of something we get involved in with both parties because, often, event planners don’t know what sound they’ll need to provide. They don’t know what the venue already has, and they don’t know what’s necessary. We’ll always get the rider from the artist, and the venue might already have everything you need. We’ll confirm that. But sometimes, if the event isn’t in a traditional venue, like in a field or on someone’s deck, there may not be a sound setup at all. In that case, the entertainer brings all their own sound equipment, and they usually know what to bring to make them sound a certain way for 100 people versus 500. They know the difference and what they need to bring. These are some of the details we always work out beforehand because you need to be heard. It doesn’t make sense to book someone if you can’t hear them.

Channing: I’ll say, too, that especially with acts who haven’t performed at corporate events before, this kind of code of conduct can seem pretty intense. "Don’t eat off the buffet, don’t drink, don’t do this," and that can seem very different from a typical venue gig. But the best way we describe it is, first off, we totally understand that corporate and private events may not be for everyone, but they’re a great way to get paid a lot more money. There is a way to play the game when it comes to corporate events, and that’s what we’re really here to help with. It can seem intense, but you’re being hired to provide a service, not to be the star of the show. We believe you are the star, but ultimately, it’s the client’s event, and we’re part of it.

Michael: Totally makes sense. So, it sounds like what you’re saying is this is a different style of event and service that you’re providing. One of the benefits is that the service pays multiples of what you’d make doing the same thing in a different scenario. But, ultimately, you’re there to provide a service to the event planner and the event itself.

Okay, so I had another follow-up question, but I lost my train of thought, so I’ll zoom out a little bit. One thing I really like to explore on the show is the future of where things are headed. I’m not sure if this is something you guys have a lot of experience with, especially in terms of corporate events, but in terms of live streaming and potentially AR types of shows and the future of live experiences—do you think there’s a place for that? Do corporate events happen virtually, and are they potentially looking for musicians to feature to soundtrack those virtual events?

Makenzie: Yeah, I would say so. We did exclusively virtual events during COVID, as you can imagine. So that's where we started learning about how a good virtual event can happen and what we can add to it so it doesn't just feel like you're watching a YouTube video of a performance. You can be more engaging and interactive. Things like that can make a virtual stream performance feel like you're there and feel a lot different than just a pre-recorded video. One artist that we work with a lot for virtual events does this thing where they will say, "Okay, I'm going to do covers now. If anybody wants to hear a song, throw it in the chat," and then he will mash up all of the songs that people put in and into one long song. It's a really fun way to get people engaged and working with you, and then they're seeing a result of something that you kind of threw out as an idea. So little things like that are really great ways to succeed when performing at a virtual event. I would say every company is a little different. Some companies have no interest in doing virtual events, while others will do them a lot because they have a huge team with offices all over the world. So it kind of varies who works well and does them a lot, but I would say it is here to stay, and it does make a lot of sense to get a virtual set down if that's something an artist is interested in.

Channing: Yes, and I would add to that, from your point, Michael, on the potential AR/VR side. We also have gotten to see, it's definitely more of the tech companies exploring what it looks like to have more of a VR experience for the attendees. It's been really fun to just start playing with that. So I do see what Fortnite and Roblox are doing on that side, and I do see that coming into the corporate world, trying to find ways to make attendees feel more engaged and a part of the event. I definitely think there's still more to come. I think we haven't even scratched the surface on that side. I think our society continues to go a little slower with that than we were all expecting, but I think there's still a lot more to be done there.

Michael: I know there was a recent breakthrough, at the time of recording this, where Meta announced their Orion glasses. Apparently, that was a big deal because it was the first time it wasn’t just a big headset, but glasses that actually worked and did a pretty good job with AR. It’d be kind of crazy if we could have a more immersive show experience from the comfort of our own homes, although it’s going to be hard to replace the experience of being together in person and being able to see and hug and really be in the space together.

Makenzie: Yeah, I think there is a future for that. I think we just need to think of it as a different experience than going to a concert because that is its own thing and will always be. People will always want to go to concerts and see their favorite artists live, but I feel like there could be a stream version that I would be super interested in seeing. I’m five-two, so I’m always behind the tall person at the show. If I could somehow avoid that and see the performance, I would pay top dollar for that.

Michael: I’m sorry, Mackenzie. I’m always the tall guy. I always feel bad for anyone behind me. I’m six-five, so wherever I am, I always know there's going to be someone behind me.

Makenzie: Well, and I feel bad too because it's not your fault. If you like the artist and get there early and want to be up front, you should be able to have that too. I don’t need to take that away from the tall people. But I do get frustrated when tall people come up later, and I’ve been there for an hour. I’m like, "You gotta let me go in front of you. This is not going to work."

Michael: I definitely wouldn’t do that. I’d let you stand in front, Mackenzie, if we're ever at a show. But luckily, we’ve got virtual shows coming up, so we’ll all be the tallest person in the room very soon. If I’m recording this in a few days, we’re releasing a podcast episode that we recorded with Noland Arbaugh, who’s the first human to have a Neuralink installed. It’s a neural interface that lets him, despite having quadriplegia and losing function below the neck, control electronics and devices. On the podcast, we recorded the first song ever telepathically, using AI music generation from his thoughts. It’s wild. But I do wonder if there will come a day where we actually have the ability to create a Matrix-style, hopefully less evil than the movie, digital environment where we can all be together in a space like that and actually feel the full experience of being together.

Makenzie: I think so. I think it’s coming.

Michael: Yeah, I think so too. I’m reading the book The Singularity is Near right now by Ray Kurzweil, and he’s one of the geniuses in the tech world. If anyone who’s listening to this right now is interested in this topic specifically, he really goes deep.

But anyway, I remembered the question I was going to ask you earlier: Yeah, I’m sure there’s a time and a place for every artist, regardless of the genre they make. Even death metal artists probably have a time and a place for their music, for the right event where someone might want to hear death metal. But at the same time, I’m sure you've seen some common patterns in terms of the majority of opportunities and gigs. I’m curious—who do you think is the best fit for those types of opportunities? For anyone who’s a musician and is considering this as a potential supplemental income stream, or something they’d like to pursue more seriously, who do you think might be in a sweet spot for these opportunities?

Channing: That’s a great question. What’s been exciting to see is that, when we first started, we were very passionate about giving hyper-local acts the opportunity to book gigs in their cities. As we’ve launched in more cities, we’ve seen a specific desire to honor the originality of music that reflects the vibe of that city. So what we book in New Orleans is very different from what we book in Austin, and what we book in Austin is different from what we book in Chicago. With that said, we’ve leaned into what each city is looking for. We see diversity there.

The other good news for artists is that, if you want corporate gigs as a supplemental income, we’ve seen more and more that companies want original acts who perform their own music. But everyone loves a cover they can sing along to. Our clients don’t want cheesy cover bands, but they do want original acts who are willing to weave in covers. And if you can do mashups, like Mackenzie was saying, or play the songs people love, but make sure there’s something the crowd can sing to, you can play corporate events. So even if you’re a screamo death metal artist by night, you can be something slightly different by day. We have a lot of acts who do that to help fund their tours.

That said, there are genres that tend to get booked more for their listening experience at corporate events. We definitely see pop, funk, soul, R&B, and country, all that easy-listening music, getting more bookings. But it’s cool to see that every city wants something a little different. What do you think, Kenz?

Makenzie: Yeah, I agree. Those are probably the most popular genres. For sure, with covers, a lot of our clients are like, “We want the Austin vibe,” or “We want the New Orleans feel.” They sometimes have an idea of what that means to them, and it may not actually be authentic, but they do want to book local people who live and breathe that city. A lot of times, their events are themed around the city specifically, so bringing that local vibe is great. And being able to do a few covers always goes a long way.

Also, knowing what you do well and being confident about it—knowing what you can deliver—goes a long way. Being able to describe your sound is very valuable.

Channing: Yes.

Makenzie: Our clients often don’t know much about music. They might say, “Okay, I want disco,” and I’m like, “You want Motown covers, right? You want a saxophone or something?” We have to walk them through and figure out what they really want to hear. Music is hard to describe, especially now that genres blend so much. It’s tough to say, “This is a rock band,” because it could be multiple things. So being able to describe it really well is very valuable and can be a challenge.

Michael: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that’s one of the biggest challenges we hear from our artist community as well. The concern is that they don’t want to put themselves in a box, saying, “I’m not just this,” or “I’m not just this.” They want to be eclectic and have different genres. So do you have any tips or recommendations for speaking the lingo of the event planner and communicating what their music sounds like?

Channing: Yes. One thing we did—this might not fully answer your question, but it helped bridge the gap of understanding—is we added a feature on our platform where entertainers have to compare themselves or say who they sound like. Maybe it’s someone a little more well-known, like, “I sound like Adele meets Bruno Mars.” That gives our clients an understanding of what your sound is like.

Also, adding adjectives and verbiage, like “Where would your music be perfect?”—Is it sunset on a beach at a beach party? What feels best for your music? I think that helps our clients too, because when they think of an event, they think about the setting and venue. So how can you plug into that?

Makenzie: To add, they know the demographic of their event. If 60 percent of the attendees are men and the majority are in their forties to sixties, they’ll know who their audience is. So knowing who might like your music and knowing your own demographic can go a long way in helping plug into what the event is looking for.

Michael: Got it. Yeah, that’s super helpful. So it sounds like a few of the recommendations are: one, figuring out who you’re inspired by or influenced by, who you think your music sounds closest to—even if it’s not a perfect match, if you’re strongly influenced by an artist, that can help people understand your style. Two, having adjectives or setting the scene—thinking about where your music would play well. These are helpful tips for identifying and communicating what might be a good fit for event planners.

Awesome.

Michael: Okay, cool. Yeah, this is great. This is like a crash course on corporate gigs for artists. So, any other advice in terms of the artists that you see really knocking it out of the park and taking these opportunities and running with it? Is there anything else that you notice they’re doing that’s like that extra 1 percent or the 10, like the cherry on top that might spark some ideas for artists on how they can really level up?

Channing: Yeah. Like Michael, how you said, it really is for corporate, you're delivering a service. I think the artists that get booked all the time through EVA, it’s not just delivering a great music experience, it’s delivering a great experience off the stage. I think that our acts, you know, these event planners, they have a million and one things to do. They’re so stressed out. And if something’s always going to come up right before—maybe your stage plot isn’t perfectly done by AV, or maybe the meal didn’t come on time—just having that "go with the flow, we got it, it's all good" attitude. If you have that, they're going to book you 10 more times. Like, having that sense of trust and knowing you've got their back is so much more important than even how you sound. So, I’ve just noticed that our acts who are willing to go the extra mile for them—it pays tenfold.

Makenzie: Yeah. And I would say not necessarily even how you can do well once you’ve gotten the gig, that’s a lot of what we've been talking about, but even finding these planners and getting booked is the hardest part. They are not in the same circles that artists are. A lot of times, they are traveling to a city, so they don’t even live in the place that you might live.

So, some advice for how to find corporate event opportunities—certainly join EVA, we'd love to book you, that's a great way to do it—but also working with your city's convention bureau. Like, I live in Austin, so there’s Visit Austin, Visit Nashville, Choose Chicago—like, every city has a convention bureau where they're trying to attract visitors, trying to attract people to have their conferences, sales retreats, festivals, and events that bring tourism. They’re very plugged in with who’s traveling there for events. They have a lot of mixers and parties—things like that, where you can go to meet people. A lot of times, there are free events that you can attend. Those are a great place to start to get plugged into that world and meet people in the private and corporate event scene. There are also groups and organizations in every city for corporate and private event planners or vendors or suppliers. These are groups that have chapters in every city for private and corporate event planners to gather and meet suppliers and artists. These are some ways you can get involved in your city to start meeting the right folks if you’re interested in getting booked.

Michael: Got it. Super smart. Yeah, if you can get a gig playing the event for all of the event planners, it’s a win.

Channing: Exactly.

Michael: Yeah, exactly. Worth like sponsoring an event—like, you, the artist, sponsoring the event or doing it for, you know, pretty cheap or free to get in front of those people. That’s probably the only time I would advise lowering your rate for exposure. Like, we really hate that, and we know artists get asked that all the time. But that's probably the only time I’ve seen it work really well.

Channing: That’s playing chess. That’s getting in front of the right people, for sure.

Michael: Yeah, making one really close relationship with an event planner near you and then working with them to create an event for all the event planners that you perform at.

Channing: Yes. We've seen, I can’t even tell you how many times we’ve put an artist on a stage, and I will say, with any showcase we do, we always pay our acts, but obviously, some can’t—we just make that a big core value to us—but we’ve put them on stages, and next thing we know, they’re playing in Hawaii, Mexico, Vail, Aspen for these single event planners. It’s like, they’ll take you everywhere once you’re in their circles. So, it’s really cool to watch an artist grow in that way. And then the attendees at those events want to book them, and it’s just a ripple effect. It’s just like building a fan base.

Michael: It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, so that kind of comes back to what you both were talking about earlier in terms of, like, when you show up, be kind, be a good person, be respectful, show up on time, don’t swear or steal food without talking about it first. You know, just be genuinely present and try to provide a service. And that’s a way to build those long-term relationships. Fantastic.

Makenzie: Exactly. Yep.

Michael: Fantastic. Well, you know, you also briefly touched on the fact that there’s this amazing platform that exists to help connect artists directly with these opportunities. So, thank you both for taking the time to be here today and share some really valuable lessons and tips for artists to tap into this supplemental market, or for a lot of people, it could literally be their full thing too. But for anyone listening to this right now who is interested in learning more about EVA and signing up to be successful with the platform, where can they go to get started?

Channing: Yes. So, you can go to bookwitheva.com, and you can sign up for free as an entertainer. Once you're signed up, you can submit an application to officially be on the platform to receive bookings. The application is just so we ensure we have all the right information that you have experience with corporate, or if you don’t, we can help you walk through that. It’s just to make sure we have everything you would put in an EPK.

Michael: Alright, fantastic. Well, like always, we’ll put the links in the show notes for easy access. And Channing and Makenzie, thank you again so much for being on the podcast today.

Makenzie: Thank you! It was great.

Channing: Loved it!