Michael Walker: Yeah. All right. Excited to be here today with my new friend, Derek Ali. Derek is a four-time Grammy Award-winning recording and mixing engineer. He’s known for iconic tracks like Kendrick Lamar’s Humble, Donald Glover’s This Is America, and the Diamond-certified The Box. He’s also the founder of Engineers, a pioneering platform that has raised over $7.5 million in seed funding with backing from industry leaders like Kendrick Lamar and DJ Khaled.

In addition to his music achievements, Derek is an advocate for diversity in tech. He testified for California’s SB54, which led to its passing, promoting more diverse investment in tech, accountability, and venture capital. He’s the real deal, and that’s a very impressive resume.

I had the chance to connect with Derek about a month ago to prepare for this podcast, and in addition to his remarkable success in the music industry, he’s someone who comes across as very down-to-earth and humble—something that can be rare to find together in one person.

Derek, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast today.

Derek Ali: No, man, I appreciate those kind words. I'm grateful to be here. Thank you for having me.

Michael: Absolutely. To kick things off, for anyone connecting with you for the first time, could you share a little about your story and how you were able to grow into becoming a four-time Grammy Award-winning recording and mixing engineer?

Derek: Yeah, I mean, where do we start? I'm a self-taught audio engineer. I started my career back in 2006 or 2007 with Kendrick Lamar, recording and mixing every album he's put out.

The journey has been quite something. I was the cliché kid—ADHD, troublemaker, playing American high school football, and always hustling. While I was playing football, one of my hustles was being really computer literate. My uncle, who was a computer engineer, used to gift me laptops and computer games for Christmas. He wanted to keep me updated with the latest technology.

Michael: That's freaking sweet, dude. Your uncle was like the laptop tech guy. I just imagine him as Inspector Gadget or something like that.

Derek: To a certain extent, man, he was one of the most progressive individuals in the family. Always had good jobs, and for Christmas, he would spoil us. At the time, he had no kids, so my brother and I reaped those benefits.

In high school, I figured out how to monetize ringtones early—back when it was Nextel or Boost Mobile phones with those mono ringtones. I found an online program that let me crack the phones and put real audio on them before ringtones became a big thing. After football practice, my buddies would come over, and we'd record parody ringtones. Stuff like, "Your mom's calling, pick up the phone," or, "This girl's calling," and so on. It turned into a passion.

My early setup was just my bedroom at my grandmother's house—a closet with curtains and bedsheets hung up and a gaming headphone mic. We’d turn these 30-second clips into ringtones, and that sparked my interest in recording. I had ADHD and was the kind of kid who broke computers and RC cars apart just to see how they worked. Granted, they didn’t always work after I put them back together, but understanding how they worked was what mattered to me.

When I figured out I could do that with music—have someone record vocals that weren’t there, add instruments, break it all down, add effects, and fine-tune it to my liking—that’s when I got hooked. We started with ringtones, and then I went through my DAW journey, starting with cracked versions of software. My first DAW was Cool Edit Pro. Then I moved up to Sony Acid Pro and eventually landed on Fruity Loops, where I was tracking and mixing.

I just fell in love with the art, going through different equipment and gear. Eventually, it became my world. I dove deeper but didn’t have the resources to go to music school, so I was heavy into online blogs and forums. If you remember old sites like Gearslutz or Future Producers, I’d post my mixes to get critiqued or look at DIY studio setups. It was a place where I could geek out with like-minded people.

At the time, all my friends were either in the streets or playing sports. Nobody else wanted to be an audio engineer. But that was the beginning of MixedByAli.

Michael: That's fantastic. Yeah, it's always great to hear the beginnings because someone like yourself, a four-time Grammy Award-winning mixing engineer, it's easy to forget that you went through the same things that everyone starting out has to go through—the initial phase.

I'm curious: were there any big standout moments or breakthrough moments that you recall, where things massively shifted and you had those breakout moments? Or was it just a slow-cooker ride as you continued to grow your career?

Derek: Man, it was really a slow cooker. I mean, my journey from the jump— I think it was 2004 or 2005 when I started with the ringtones. I was just spending years, again, understanding what I was doing.

I didn't have any formal training in the arts of audio engineering. I didn’t know what I was doing, right? I was just throwing plugins on a chain and twisting a bunch of knobs, trying to understand what each one did. Understanding how compression worked, how parametric EQ worked, and all these different things—just through trial and error.

So, obviously, it took a couple of years to understand what that was. Then, you know, I started building a local name where local talent and artists would come to me and say, "Hey, I'm looking for an engineer, can you record me?" Because in the early 2000s, social media wasn’t a big thing. There weren’t too many platforms or software that made recording easy or allowed you to find engineers. You only knew who you saw on a daily basis.

So, yeah, man, I got lucky working with some local talent who ended up becoming some of the biggest artists in the world now.

Michael: Yeah, that's super cool. So, in terms of working with artists like Kendrick Lamar, it sounds like you both were in a similar place in your careers when you started working together. You were both up-and-coming. Maybe you can describe a little bit about that experience for you? Because I feel like a lot of artists might overlook the amazing talent they have in their circles because they're looking for people who are already established. They might not realize that they could be working with the next Kendrick Lamar—not because people are going to be like, "Kendrick Lamar's," but just the next big act. They're kind of focused on trying to find something external instead of cultivating what's already an opportunity in their network.

Derek: Yeah, I think it was just more of, we weren't really thinking about the future at that time, right? It was more about creating, having a place to get away from what our real daily lives consisted of. So, I think naturally, just again, him wanting to be the biggest artist and me really falling in love with the creative process and wanting to be a master of my own craft, I think naturally, that's when greatness comes. Everyone's just trying to be the best at what they do, and when all that comes together, it's a formula for success.

So, again, I think the process of what me and all the earlier guys really did when we were in those early moments of putting together the mixtapes, before things got crazy, gave us that time and space to acquire those 10,000 hours, right? It really sharpened our swords before we got into the real game. The creative process we had really molded me. I was grateful to have the opportunity to work with artists like Kendrick, Jay Rock, Ab-Soul, or Schoolboy Q because they let me be creative. They let me just do whatever, right? And that just opened up the creativity to where I could try these different vocal effects, different reverb throws, or double vocals to create different textures and layers through effects. That was a huge part of developing my sound, which the industry ended up loving later on.

Michael: So, it sounds like really one of the most important parts of your journey was the initial discovery phase—exploring and putting in the 10,000 hours to figure out how all these different things worked. A lot of it was trial and error. And thankfully, you had creative partners who gave you the space to explore, try out new things, and see what worked. Awesome.

Derek: Now, I would say that's one of the most important things. I tell people now I'm almost grateful that I didn't go the other route of going to music school first. I feel like these creators who go through those processes get taught in a box. With creativity, with music, with sound, there are no rules, there are no limits. So, a lot of the old processes and standards that are being taught to these individuals nowadays are not really applicable to today's creative world. Early on, I was blessed with that mindset—to not follow any rules. Throw reverb on a snare, or try this random effect here. As long as it feels good and sounds great, that's the ultimate goal.

Michael: That's a really helpful reminder to hear. Yeah, it reminds me of the Steve Jobs quote about thinking differently—specifically, it's the square pegs that don't fit in the round holes that are the ones that actually change the world and move the needle. If you're basically learning how to be like everyone else, it's like, okay, great—another circle that fits in the same circle as everyone else. But it truly is the people who think differently, the square pegs who chart their own way, that create something unique and different.

Derek: I agree with that.

Michael: Awesome. Well, Derek, I know that you've been working a lot on this platform, Engineers, and I'd love to explore a little bit about what that is, how it works, and what kind of artists get the most value from it. To start with, could you just share a little bit of an introduction to Engineers and, specifically, what would you say is the biggest problem or challenge that you're looking to solve with the platform?

Derek: Essentially, I'll start at the top level, then I'll double back on how we got here. But the problem we're essentially trying to solve is the organization in the industry from a creative perspective, right? As an audio engineer, having dealt with it through my journey—going from being a nobody to now being one of the biggest engineers in the world—I'm still dealing with chasing payments, antiquated file transfer processes, and terrible communication.

We're the last creative before it goes out to DSPs for consumer consumption, right? We end up always footing all the stress, and if anything goes wrong, it's really just on us because we're the last ones to hold and touch these projects.

So, essentially, we built it out of necessity: a platform that allowed me as a creative to create a profile, host my services, solicit my services to potential clients, and then have them instantly book me based on the services available on my front-facing profile. Once booked, the platform walks both sides—the artist and the engineer—through a workflow that holds everyone accountable on both sides, not just the engineer. At the end of the project, once the files have been approved and the mix or master has been approved, payment is unlocked to the engineer, so I don't have to chase invoices or get eviction notices because I can't pay rent for another month.

So, that bare-bones iteration of Engineers, which we launched in 2022, was just that: allowing an engineer to create a profile, host their services, solicit their services, get booked for projects, go through our backend workflows that facilitate the collaboration between clients, and issue payments and credits at the end. But it's grown so much since then.

At scale, the goal for us is to develop the operating system. We see the music industry and how it's evolving with technology nowadays. There's a shift happening right now under our feet with the introduction of AI music and more tools being developed than ever. We see ourselves at a place where we could become the hub that audio engineers want to work at, where studios can host hourly sessions, and where artists can search for and book a studio, get a song mixed or mastered, sell that music directly to their superfans, and distribute it to any DSPs.

At that point, they'll be able to accumulate all their revenue and create a catalog. They'll have one place to create, monetize their art, reinvest into it, and that loop effect begins. Our end goal is to be the operating system for the music industry, but we started with what was most necessary.

How we started this journey—well, I reached a point in my career, around 2017-2018. We reached the top, right? We're winning Grammys, Kendrick's getting Pulitzers, we're traveling the world nonstop, but I kind of had this feeling of losing passion. There was still a sense of not understanding how I acquired the success in such a short amount of time.

I'd been blessed to work with generational acts and incredible artists, but there was a bit of imposter syndrome tied into all of that. I hit a brick wall where I wasn't really inspired by what I was working on. The world was saying, “This is incredible! This is amazing!” but for somebody who doesn't truly understand success, it starts to feel a bit lost.

At that time, I was on a journey to find my own personal North Star—what would keep me going? It was proven I could make money. I could do incredible things and create a legacy, but where was the purpose? It’s crazy to think about, but as a kid, I was like, “What the hell is purpose?” I was getting money, having a good time, but as you get older, you start to question what all of this is for.

It might sound cliché to say, but during that time, I was at the height of my career, and I had tons of individuals in my DMs and on social media asking me about my process. How did I do this? How did I do that? How did I build a career and a brand? Many of these people were reaching out, and I realized there seemed to be a community of individuals thirsting for the knowledge I acquired through trial and error.

I remember a time when I was on Gearslutz.com and FutureProducers.com on those blogs. I didn't have Instagram back then; that was my version of DMing, where I was messaging people on the blogs. I thought, "There's no real community in the audio engineering space." I felt that way on my own journey, so I decided to develop one. Let me see what that would feel like.

Michael: So, I would post graphics on social media showing how Ali uses a CO1B or how Ali mics a migrant, you know, just different things that I do, right? Just to show my process, and it got high engagement. People really wanted that information.

So, from that, we decided, "Hey, let's try doing a workshop. Let's try to show people how I got to where I am through my exact journey, right? With my tools, telling my story like I just did, walking through the tools that I used, and then doing a full deconstruction of one of those records in front of the class so they can really see the tools in real time."

Hear the before and afters, right, et cetera. So, yeah, going back, Engineers started as just an Instagram at first, right? A place where I would post tips and techniques and, again, all the personal things that I acquired.

From that, it led us to phase two, which was developing these workshops. I went to all the booking agencies, the ICMs, the William Morris's, and they were like, "We don't see the value in this." "Nah, I'm not gonna help you set up a tour to go do workshops."

So, I'm like, "F***." We self-funded and hosted our first workshop in LA in 2019 at the 1500 Sound Academy in Englewood, and it sold out within, like, two days. It was crazy. It was a five-hour workshop where the first half, again, told my story, talked about the trials and tribulations, the sleeping on couches and eating ramen daily—like all this stuff that we've all been through.

The second half was that deconstruction aspect. And that grew so fast. Like, as we would post recap videos on social media, right, as photos were getting reposted, et cetera, we were now having just tons of people globally like, "Yo, come here, bring it here, do this, this is amazing."

So, we did that. We launched a world tour from there. We did workshops all through Canada, the States, Europe, and Japan. I had a South Africa/South America plan, but then COVID hit. So, that kind of threw a wrench in the momentum we had built with Engineers. At that time, it was strictly just education. 

Derek: I've started feeling purpose now, right? I'm like, "Yo, these people care about what I'm saying." The mistakes that I made in all of these songs turned out not to be mistakes, but my style. So, I'm like, "Yo, this is incredible," right? And it kind of re-empowered me to a certain level. But once COVID hit, we were stuck.

It's like, "Yo, we've had this year-and-a-half run of traveling the world, doing these workshops, educating, right, really making a difference in these creators' lives on a global scale." And now we're at a standstill, right? So, we were kind of forced to look at the information we gathered throughout that tour.

It was probably one of the smartest things we could have done. We left all of our attendees with questionnaires—shirt sizes, shoe sizes, like, "What DAW do you use?"—just so we could send merch and things like that. But we also asked other questions, like, "What are some of the issues you're dealing with as a creative?"

We didn’t realize how important that question was because, during COVID, when we were forced to really sit down and look at the information we gathered, it's like, "Holy shit, it's not just the education and the inspiration we're providing through these workshops. These individuals need tools."

I got an engineer in Hong Kong, or an engineer somewhere in Germany or France, dealing with the same shit that I'm dealing with: chasing payments, getting credited, BS file transfer processes, having trouble building my clientele list so I can actually scale my business.

And that was the aha moment. Like, damn, it's the business tools. It's the tools we have to develop for these creators. At that time, the tech stack for an audio engineer was Dropbox, Cash App, Venmo, QuickBooks, emails, DMs. We're using all these platforms to kind of piece together a business structure, a business org, right? And it's not manageable. Somebody who doesn’t have the will to put together all these platforms, or isn't as computer-savvy or tech-savvy to know these tools even exist, is going to have a tough time.

So we said, "Hey, let's develop that. Let's develop a platform that allows this niche creator to be able to grow, manage, and scale their independent business," because that's what we are. We're small businesses, we're contractors. And that was kind of the inception all the way to the launch of the MVP of the Engineers platform.

Michael: Awesome. So cool for sharing all that, and especially the part where you transparently shared your purpose. You know, you had to experience the success and this journey that a lot of people would look at and be like, "Wow, I could only dream of having that experience."

And having that experience, I think honestly, all of us have this sort of purpose question: "What is this all about? What is this for? Who am I?" And I'm gonna share that, I think, is hopefully really inspiring for folks to understand that regardless of where they're at in their journey, that's something that will always be there.

We're human, man, at the end of the day. And that's why, you know, you mentioned the humbleness and all that stuff. Because it's like, success or anything like that never really made me. It was so long of me not understanding what was happening, because I was just in the studio 24/7, my head down, on a console, listening to stuff, where I didn't pick my head up and look at what was going on around me.

Derek: But that moment is like, you don't really understand how important that moment of purpose is until you've reached a point to understand what purpose is. Right? So, 10 years ago, I wouldn't be having this conversation, but it's once you have it all—once you've acquired and attained a level of success—and once you've seen a lot of things, then the real questions start to fester in your brain. Like, one of them is, "What the fuck am I doing all this for? Why am I spending 20 hours a day in the studio? What is the reason for it?"

Anybody can make money, right? There has to be some higher purpose that keeps you driven.

Michael Powerful. Yeah, it seems like that purpose can shift and evolve over time. I'm not sure where I heard this, but it seems to ring true with your experience: at the beginning of the life cycle and our life journey, it's a lot about us doing things for ourselves, and then kind of reaching that pinnacle of success.

And, as the tree blossoms, there comes a point where it shifts from just this initial blossoming to bearing fruit and providing that fruit. And that fruit falls, forming the seeds for the next generation. As a father, I'm sure you can relate to that—the purpose that comes from the parent-child relationship. But also, it seems like there's something universal about the way nature works that applies to our own journeys and the fruits of our labor. Eventually, part of the purpose of whatever it is we're doing here seems to be this idea of paying it forward and contributing.

The children's relationship to the fruit falling is just such a powerful metaphor. I just wanted to honor you for having the willingness to share some of the things that you've learned. And, yeah, I've heard it described before that one of the compass points that points us in the right direction of our goal or purpose might be looking at what were the biggest challenges we went through or really, where's our darkest moment when we were getting started? And if we can essentially solve that for other people, that's one way to get attuned with our greatest purpose.

It sounds like the platform you built is really for a version of yourself that needed this, but it didn’t exist back in the day. You didn't have the same luxuries, but now that you've built this platform, you're able to help solve this for artists.

Derek: That's exactly right, man. Like, again, it was hell. You know, I didn’t have the education, I didn’t speak the terminologies, I didn’t speak the language. I'm a victim of my own ambitions in the sense that when I entered a studio room, I was asking all the questions. There were a handful of engineers that I was grateful to meet early on who had me come to their sessions. They saw early on that those guys were going to take my job one day, and it was a lot of pushing me away. And it was like, why? If a lot of those individuals really supported me in my earlier career, the relationship probably would’ve been different. Or, they might have had a second life in their own career, or whatever the case might’ve been.

So, it’s just simple rules: you each one teach one. The way my journey went, no one’s going to do it the exact same way, but somebody might be able to learn something from my journey that they can add to their own, right? It’s legacy, man. Like, again, man, what the fuck are you doing? Do dope shit for it, man. If you're not trying to be talked about for 100 years...

Michael: Good stuff. Well, one topic you approached a little bit earlier that seems to be your perspective is around AI and the development of these technologies for generative music. Obviously, right now we’re sort of in the Wild West of what these tools are and what they'll mean for the music industry and humanity over the next 10 to 20 years. But yeah, I’m curious—someone like yourself, who has been around and witnessed some major revolutions through time with different technological breakthroughs—how are you viewing AI? And what would your recommendations be for folks who are listening to this right now, who maybe are feeling a little bit concerned or afraid of AI, and they’re not sure if they should be using this tool or not? Or how they should be implementing it? Where should they get started? What would your general advice be for folks as it relates to AI tools?

Derek: Music and AI, man, it's a topic because a lot of people don't understand it. It's a hot topic, I would say, because a lot of people don’t understand it. The things that people don’t understand, they often put the devil on it or put it to the side. The way I’m looking at it, from a creative’s standpoint—turned startup founder who understands these tools and how they can be both valuable and detrimental to the industry—I just did a lecture at Harvard at the Carmen Hall, and we talked about this topic in particular, which, obviously, is a very hot one.

The way I look at it from a creative standpoint, it’s still early days. AI-generated music, as a novelty, I think, is going to be something where the kid who was never a musician is creating a meme song for social media. I think that’s where you’ll have users and creatives using it, like, once every couple of months. It’s just always going to be there. But from the standpoint of it taking our jobs or taking this or that, I don’t believe so. I think, if anything, it’s going to make us more efficient. From a creative perspective, think of producers: If somebody is looking for loops, in the past, we’ve been plagued with having to clear samples, which take all of our publishing, and et cetera. Now, you can get an ethically generated loop, right?

Obviously, I’m big on the ethics of AI and what these companies are using to train their models. But on the ethically created platforms that are providing these types of production loops, producers can take that sample, chop it, and now generate revenue for themselves without having to pay a big split to the publisher. I think that’s going to be the biggest net positive for creators.

You know, a mixing assist tool is something we’re looking to develop, where it trains you as it gives you suggestions on how to shape or blend the 808 and kick drum or how to carve a snare, et cetera. So, we look at AI music creation as a way to provide more efficiencies for music creators, so they can do more. For those of us who didn’t have access to music schools and don’t understand frequencies and blending, getting that perfect blend between the kick and 808, AI can give you suggestions on how to achieve that sound if that’s what you're looking for in real time while mixing. So, there is some positive utility.

But I think, man, a good friend of mine, Professor Kareem Lakhani from HBS, says, “It’s not AI that’s going to take over. It’s the human enabled with AI that’s going to take over.” Again, as these tools develop, as we continue to develop groundbreaking tools for engineers, we look to add value to the creative field to allow people to do more, create more, generate more revenue for themselves, and create more opportunity for themselves. AI pairing algorithms that pair engineers with artists or artists with studios, et cetera.

So, it’s more of, again, man, I tell the creatives who are listening: Embrace it, understand it, because there’s probably a tool out there right now being developed that will be like your best friend in the sense of being able to be way more efficient in sessions, working with clients, managing files—whatever the case might be.

Michael: Fantastic. I mean, I agree with that sentiment around it. It sounds like how you recommend people think about AI isn’t necessarily as something to be afraid of, from the standpoint of, “Oh, this is going to replace me,” but actually to look at it as a tool—a technology that you can use to extend your creativity and do it faster, more easily.

Without going down too deep of a rabbit hole, it seems like technology has always been about shortening the gap between an idea and the fruition of the idea. It starts with the thought, and basically, if you look around wherever you’re listening to this podcast from, and you look at everything that’s at least man-made—yeah, yeah, yeah—it started out as an idea. Then someone took some action, effort, and time, and it turned into the thing. But there’s always that gap, right? There’s the gap between the idea and the result. And with technology, it basically shortens that gap and makes it easier to go from point A to point B. It used to be that to travel across the world, you’d need to spend a whole lifetime. Now, because of technology—because of airplanes—you can do it in a matter of hours. Every tool, every technology essentially seems to shorten the gap between, “I have this need or this idea,” and “I can actually make it happen faster and easier than before.”

It does seem like one question I have around AI—and this is where it could go down a bit of a rabbit hole—is, as it relates to the singularity and exponential increases in intelligence, is there a point where that creative impulse... Like, we’re still kind of figuring out where that comes from, right? And, I’d love to hear your perspective on this, but it seems like when we’re really tapped into that creative impulse, a lot of people say it’s coming from a greater place or greater purpose. We don’t even take responsibility for it because it’s just something that’s happening through us. And we’re still kind of figuring out, like, how our brains work and what that creative impulse is.

You talked about your story with the survey responses and seeing the issues people are describing. It seems like there’s something with entrepreneurship and problem-solving where there’s a kind of baked-in universal energy to traction. Where’s their challenge? Where’s their struggle? Where’s their issue? That’s an opportunity for growth. Or, where’s the gap? You see there’s a gap between this and this. So I guess maybe that’s where I could bring this back to the conversation, but what’s your perspective on the creative impulse in terms of where it comes from? Especially since you’ve been able to rub shoulders with and produce some of the most incredible artwork that exists today. Where does the source of that come from? Is it from a higher-level source, or where do you see it originating?

Derek: Real quick, if I could just speak on that. That’s why I believe the AI stuff is much more of a utility—a tool—rather than something that’s going to take over, because humans, they want to relate to something. They want to feel partial to somebody’s journey, or they want to be inspired by somebody’s journey. They want to go see that live. They want to be in awe of the presence of that individual while they’re on stage performing. They want to feel that energy, which all stems from one’s experience.

Going to the question now of where does that inspiration kind of come from? When it comes to a song, right, you know how I look at it: it’s like this triangle trifecta, right? You’ve got the artist up top, the engineer, the producer. I look at it like you need these individuals to create a song, right? Because everyone’s journey—everyone’s what somebody’s adding to that creative process—is their own. Like, a producer comes in, makes a beat, right? Not even thinking about a particular artist in mind or thinking about how the vocals would lay over it, right? You have an engineer who’s taking these files that he’s probably never heard before, as well as vocals that just got recorded, and trying to blend it. Then you have the artist, who’s now creating all the lyrics and everything based on their experiences, their journeys, their trials and tribulations, their passions, et cetera.

So when it comes to where I feel like it draws from, I think for me, in particular, right, because I didn’t come from a natural musical background—I didn’t, you know, can’t play instruments—it comes from a feeling that I really can’t even explain. I’d be lying to you if I said, "Hey, you know, I was able to do this because the light was dim this way and I smoked this many blunts." It’s just a feeling—you know when it’s right when it’s right. And I think that is almost one of my superpowers because I’m not limited to, you know, what one would look at as a negative. Like, if a track is distorting, or if a kick is distorting, or if this, that, or the third isn’t done by the book, right? I’ll add that slide because, to me, it feels good.

So where that comes from—a higher power, you can say that—because I get this level of tunnel vision. You know, the reason why I like to mix analog, where I still use these old huge consoles and all this outboard gear, is because it feels like I’m touching the music, right? I’m one with the electricity. I’m not just clicking the mouse and activating ones and zeros. I’m actually touching the song, right? I’m painting on a canvas. So it’s a little bit of preparation and understanding like what you’re trying to do, right? The basics. You know, understanding how a snare, a kick is supposed to sound laid over a vocal, how a blend of hi-hats and all these different sounds is supposed to come together.

You know, it’s like a Rubik’s cube, man. You’re constantly twisting and turning and pulling, trying to get all the colors to match. I can’t really say what other individuals pull their inspiration from or where their feelings come from on how they put together these masterpieces that linger around for generations for people to listen to. Right. But for me in particular, it’s really just, again, it’s that tunnel vision. It’s that tunnel vision of searching for the perfect blend or searching for that feeling that you get when you know a song is locked in. Kind of speaking top-level. I don’t know if you’re catching what I’m saying.

Michael: Man, I think this is super helpful. The takeaway that I'm hearing is around people having faith to trust their intuition and trust how they're feeling—their sense of what's happening—and prioritizing that intuition over what they've been told, over what people are telling them it should be, or what the education system tells them it should be. Really, what's worked for you is actually focusing inward and paying attention to how something makes you feel, and paying more attention to that than the "right" way to do it.

Derek: And also, just like working, rubbing elbows with individuals who want to add that piece to the puzzle, right? Look at all the biggest artists in the world. They have these creative teams that they've grown with. You've got the Jay-Zs and Gurus, right? You’ve got the Drakes and 40s. You have the Kendricks. You have these individuals who trust, like you said, a good word, trust that their creative partners are going to do whatever it is at the highest of their capabilities, right?

And I think that’s needed—that trifecta. I go back to the artist, engineer, producer, right? You need to have that triangle of creators, with everyone trying to be the best in their own right, to really break through, in my opinion.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. So, it sounds like a huge part of your own story and really the platform that you've built is about connecting that triangle together, connecting those people so that you're not trying to figure this all out on your own, but you actually can rub shoulders with the people who fill in the gaps or the parts that creativity comes from.

Awesome.

Derek: Access. Access and freedom.

Michael: Well, hey, Derek, man, it's been great having you on the podcast. Thank you for taking the time to be here and share your journey, and also for what you're doing with the platform you've built to serve the wider community. It's awesome. A lot of the things you're sharing, I relate to. We're in a slightly different vertical, but we had seven or eight different software tools that we were building on—digital marketing funnels for artists, like ClickFunnels, ActiveCampaign, and all these different things. It sort of reached this point where we wanted to have an ecosystem or platform that made it simpler for artists.

Yeah, I can sense some similar themes in terms of the platforms we're building together. I'm looking forward to exploring more ways for us to collaborate and support the engineers' platform. And for anyone listening or watching this right now who just wants to explore the platform and sign up, what's the best place for them to go to connect more?

Derek: EngineEars.com is the domain, or you can follow EngineEars on social media. We just launched an overhaul of the platform, which we've spent all year building. This consisted of us, again, spending the last year and a half with this MVP, talking to engineers, talking to artists, talking to studio owners, and learning from their experiences. We've been able to fill holes that might have existed or provide a better UI, or whatever the case may be.

So, we just launched a more mature platform that we're super excited about. From the audio engineer and studio standpoint, we've been on a waitlist. We’ve onboarded users on a monthly basis, but we’ve now opened that up to the public. Check it out—I’m excited to hear everybody's feedback. I’m excited to hear the songs created and developed through the platform.

We’re going to continue to develop groundbreaking tools that aid the creative community.

Michael: Exciting! Yeah, that's a great time to be on the podcast so we can celebrate that public launch together. Awesome. Well, as always, we'll put all the links in the show notes for easy access. Derek, thanks again so much for being on the podcast.

Derek: Michael, man. Thank you for the time.