Michael Walker: Yeah. All right. I'm excited to be here with my new friend, Kristen Agee. So, Kristen is the founder of 411 Music Group, which is a global, woman-owned creative music powerhouse providing custom music, sync licensing, and more for over 10,000 high-profile projects. They've offered a global solution for film, TV, sports, and gaming across the USA, Europe, Brazil, and Asia.

Yeah. And today I'm really excited to connect with her and talk a little bit about the current status of the world of sync licensing, which, I know for a lot of artists who are here right now, you've maybe heard about sync. You've dabbled in it a little bit, but also now it's kind of a unique time that there's a lot of movement, things happening with like AI and sync.

There's a lot of kind of the wild west there. And so, I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective as someone who's worked with artists across the world as it relates to sync and how they can really best utilize the platforms that are available to them today. So, Kristen, thank you for taking the time to be here today.

Kristen Agee: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Michael: So, to kick things off, maybe you could, for anyone that this is their first time connecting with you, could you share a little bit about yourself, and your story, and how you started 411.

Kristen: Well, I am originally a composer violinist. I grew up playing classical violin and bass, and eventually went to sound engineering school. And learned how to run pro tools and record, you know, on tape and use outboard gear and all the things like that they teach you in school. And then I started a recording studio in Silverlake, in my first house and recorded like 80’s punk bands, my first sort of recording experiences. And then I was in different bands and projects playing bass and violin and writing and recording a bit, and then I kind of think because I was a classical violinist, but also this punk rocker, I liked all types of music and, was interested in all genres, not just one focused genre.

So, I think sync just sort of landed itself to what I was doing in that aspect, like creative aspect. And so, I eventually started writing full time and when I did, it was specifically for film and TV for different, you know, music catalogs, like libraries and publishers and music supervisors. And, then I got to a point where I was like, why am I selling the rights to my music when I could be aggregating it myself?

And I still sell the rights to our music a lot, but, in a different sort of format. So, I feel like I'm really good at putting people together and making something better. So, I eventually, over years, like wrote less and less and started this business. And so, the business started to take off at some point.

And yeah, so now I run that. So, we have people in different parts of the U.S. and the world who are working, with me in house, like on the business side, and then we have a network of, hundreds of composers and thousands of artists that we work with on a regular basis. So, that's basically how I got from very quick story from A to B.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah. And you know, you mentioned, like the sync licensing and you're in working with these brands, like how, think most people are listening to this right now are aware of exactly what sync licensing is and how it works. But, if someone is kind of just starting out, maybe they heard about sync, but they're not really super familiar with it.

Could you just share a brief introduction to the world of sync and how it differs from a traditional, artist career?

Kristen: Yeah, I mean, it is different. Of course, when we work with composers and artists, a lot of references are to pop culture, pop artists, big hits, you know, we're placing big hits, you know, that they can't afford, but, you know, sync is very specific because we are supporting a scene or a picture or a brand.

So, it is not necessarily just about the song and like the personalness of a song and artist. But it's about like, sometimes it's about not distracting from a scene or interfering with dialogue and having edit points in your song, like the way that you structure a song can be different if you're writing for specifically for sync versus just like pouring your heart out.

You know, writing for yourself or your fans or audience or TikTok or, you know, and I think that each media type is different how you write for sync. Like, for example, we are a TikTok sound partner. So, we do a lot of ads and brand campaigns for TikTok. And the way you write music for those is totally different than how you write music for TV.

Because it's so short and you have to catch their attention, the audience's attention in the first place. Two seconds, so, and in a, like a, if you're scoring a TV show, and again that also has levels, if it's a scripted show versus a reality show, the way you structure a cue or write to picture is sort of like varies, you know, but ultimately, it's all just about supporting the video versus looking at a full song. We also look at full songs, you know, like if we are, for example, we just did this beats by Dre and with Messy, that came out like a couple of weeks ago and it's a full song, but of course they cut it, you know, for that specific spot, but then we released the full song, you know, digitally and on DSP’s after the fact, so that it could align with the campaign.

So, we do look at a full song, but we're really also looking at, how that track or song or score can be edited to picture. So, it is, you just think about it in a different way, I think, than just like a traditional artist only writing for themselves. Yep.

Michael: Right. Makes sense. Yeah, so it sounds like what you're saying is that, you know, with sync, like really the main purpose is for the media, it's for the video. And so, the song can be sliced and diced and sort of made to really best express the vibe of the video scene that you're playing. You mentioned as well that there is a nice, like integration between a sync and you having like a full song that you could have a campaign around.

So yeah, as like a lot of people who are listening to this right now. I think primarily are interested in growing their music career from like the original music as opposed to, only focusing on sync. Maybe you could talk a little bit about sort of the benefits for someone who is pursuing a career, music career with like the original music and they want to build a fanbase. Obviously, it's a very good thing for them. So, like have success in sync at the same time, but could you share a little bit about like the integration between those and what are some of the biggest benefits that you've seen, to an artist's career when they really, you know, figure out the world of sync as well.

Kristen: I think it's different now than it used to be because you used to be able to be an artist and get like an end title sync on Grey's Anatomy, for example, and then suddenly you have who is that artist and this big fanbase that finds you and follows you, you know, but there's so much content now and there're streamers and networks and like there's just so much out there that I think it doesn't have like the same, like each show doesn't have the same audience as shows used to because there were limited options.

So, I think you don't necessarily like have one big sync and suddenly you're the biggest artist in the world. But of course, there are examples of that, and it does still happen, and something will take off, but I think the biggest benefit at the moment for sync is making money. Like in your music and streaming, it’s so difficult to make money in and playing shows for indie artists and you know so, it's like how do you try to sustain and support a career for yourself while being an artist you know, and trying not to have a day job like, it's really hard and I'm not saying you're going to make a million dollars as a small artist, like, syncing your track to some TV show, but at least it will give you some support.

And I think, you know, I always recommend people to work together and work with people who are good at things that you're not good at. So, if you're a great artist, but you don't know how to monetize your music, then find a team who will help you work with a music library or a publisher or a sync agent.

And, you know, have another team surrounding you to help you get those types of gigs. Like, you know, as we can say, to get your music licensed and of course it gives you like some media exposure, people do still find those songs and artists, and sometimes they follow them, sometimes it doesn't carry over, you know, we've had some songs we've written on TikTok that have 16 billion views. And it did not transfer to streams. Nobody went to Spotify then and streamed that song. But then if you have like an active artist on TikTok, who's maybe just posting themselves playing acoustic guitar and singing, they may have way more followers than some of those songs that we've done for background or for like brand campaigns for sync.

So, I think being active as an artist on those platforms is always something that even labels look at when they're trying to sign an artist. It's kind of turned into, the A&R-ing is like scrolling TikTok and finding how many followers do you have? And there's less actual A&R. There's less development in artists nowadays.

They kind of want artists just with numbers already, you know? I guess the level of what people are looking for now to sign an artist is higher than it was with in terms of like followers and the standard for that is different. So, I think sync does help with that. And I think, if there's a song that like, we've done writing camps with different artists and they're not released those songs, but the labels have said, like, majors have said, “Oh, if you get a big sync, we will then release this song”. So, it becomes more of a priority and then they have something to also back that song with. But this was just used on this campaign or in this TV show, or, you know, so they can like have some type of, you know, PR about that particular track and that artist and why it's relevant.

Like, why should you listen? So yeah, there are a lot of benefits, but for us, you know, coming from a publisher and label like or a sync agent’s perspective, we look at like monetizing the music first and foremost, that's really our jobs. And to provide a creative service, you know to our clients. So, that's how I look at it

Michael: Awesome. Yeah. So, it sounds like, you know, the primary benefit is generally that it can be one of the more lucrative paths to actually monetize your music, especially when it's related to like streaming or something that barely pays anything. There also is like sort of a side benefit where it's not always the case, but sometimes it is the case that you have a lot of media exposure.

You can have a big placement that really does, you know, good things for your audience as well. I'm curious, you worked with a lot of artists now and kind of seen what types of music have, have really done well in sync versus, you know, maybe some kinds of music aren't well-suited for sync.

I'm kind of curious to hear your perspective on, seems like there's probably a place for everything, right? Like there's a lot of different kinds of content that you could sync to, but in general, like, have you found that there's a certain style of music that lends itself nicely to sync? And do you generally recommend that artists, if they are pursuing like an original music career as well, do you recommend that they like, you know, kind of quote unquote, right for sync specifically, or is it possible for them to kind of, you know, do both at the same time, but what's your experience with watching artists in that journey?

Kristen: Yeah, it's definitely possible to do both. I think it can sometimes be hard for artists to pull away from their art and themselves to and then get direction from a client or from us to say “Oh, can you make this more general?” or “Can you put a lift in here?” Your lyrics are too personal, you know, like you don't want to tell an artist that their lyrics are too personal. But they are for sync and then when you think about what sync is for, you know supporting the media then you can kind of take yourself out of it.

But yeah, I would say generally, of course, like the recording needs to be good. Like, it still has to be at, like, radio quality, you know, so we have very specific deliverable requirements when we get our songs in, and we always want, you know, the full version with vocals, if it's a song and the instrumental version at a minimum.

And then we also get stems and cut downs, you know. So, that's important, I think, for artists to remember if they're working with like outside engineers and producers to always get, you know, stems and fulls, instrumentals, the session files, if you can, we always ask for lyrics. We ask for metadata from artists, and not to get too in depth into that, but, you know, it's general like keywords and like describing the songs and the key signature and tempos and all of that. And then, of course, we also, always need to know who has participated in the song. If it's a writer, like, you're the only writer, if you have multiple writers and producers, like you know, who owns the song, who owns the recording?

You know, stuff like that is just kind of basic things that maybe people aren't thinking about when they're sitting down to write a song. But those are important for us. And then I think in terms of style, we sync, I would say just our company. I'm not saying every company, but we sync a ton of pop and hip-hop tracks. Like we really specialize in that for, TV shows. Like we've just done like selling songs and selling sunset and buying Beverly Hills and they have this sort of poppy vocal sound to them. So, we specialize in that. That's something we always need more of. But the, the tricky thing, like I said, is that for artists, for us to tell them, we need more general lyrics.

It can be like difficult for them to hear, but it's because like, you think about, if you have a song about your own specific relationship with your name and your, you know, it's your life, then that's not going to work for like, so many scenes and ads. And we think of a song of like where do we see this getting used, you know, and if you write a song, the best example, everyone uses is about.

And you could write a song about a specific relationship that you're in, or you can write about love in general, and it could be applied to a relationship or a mother-daughter or a friendship or a grandparent. And so, then that song can get used in so many more places, because it's not about a specific story.

So that's something that we also look at, like, are these lyrics limiting, you know, and of course, like, we rep some artists that have extremely explicit lyrics and content, and surprisingly, that still gets used, and you know, like premium content, channel content, like Euphoria. And, you know, so there's a place for explicit and there's a split, a place for specific, but generally we're like, okay, we can never sync this for an ad.

We can never sync this for a trailer. This is too specific for most TV shows. Like it would have to be this one thing, you know, so then we, it can just be limiting if you're too specific about, like a certain topic. And we also look for builds in a song. Like we get a lot of submissions where it's just an acoustic guitar vocal.

And while that is beautiful, it just, we need more than that. We need the song to build. We need more instrumentation. We need edit points. So, like breaks in the song. So, the editors can take that in the middle of a song, you know, and use that as an ending instead of just only having the very end of a song, like as a sting out. So, there are a lot of little tricks that you can do to increase your sync ability, if you can say that, but still also stay true to your art.

And I would say a lot of artists, if you're doing both, like, you know, some artists don't want to put their sync material under their artist’s name, which is also fine. So, you can do an alias, like have another artist project that you feed your sync able stuff into, and then just keep your own personal artist.

Like career and path, the same, if you don't want to change your style, you know so we work with a lot of artists who do that as well or they'll go on the road, and they have their band and their project and their success there and then they write on the bus like under an alias name and send that to us. So, I think it's really common and you kind of have to do it all now in a way like, at least to like, have a career in music.

You have to sort of you know don't put all your eggs in one basket, unless you're like, you know, Beyoncé, then you can do whatever you want.

Michael: All the-

Kristen: Yeah, all the eggs.

Michael: Awesome. So, it sounds like, I mean, some of the things you're suggesting to sound like they're almost like good songwriting tips in general, you know, like, having really good dynamics so that it kind of builds and has like quiet spots. Making sure that you're not being like too limited with the lyrics because then they can't connect with people if they're too specific.

I also really like the idea of you know, artists can have a project, an alias where it's not necessarily their name that they have just specifically for think, you know, versus the artist music as well, if they want to split things up like that. Yeah.

One topic that I'd love to hear your perspective on. We talked about a little bit earlier, but just like the rise of AI as it relates to all things, but especially in the world of, you know, music and generative music. Music and in particular for like sync licensing, where maybe there's, it's not as important that, it's a specific, song or artist, like if it's in the case you had mentioned where it's like, well, we can't really afford to get Uptown Funk by Bruno Mars, but we want something like that.

You know, I can, you can see it being kind of tempting to just like type in like a song, like Bruno Mars, and it's like, bloop, and it like pops it out. So yeah, how’s your thoughts on the current state of the sync world as it relates to AI and music? And obviously this is a bit like the wild west and sort of like crystal ball, but where do you think that things are headed in terms of, using tools like this in combination with, uh, -

Kristen: Think, at the moment, because, you know, there's tons of lawsuits happening about, you know, surrounding AI music and the rights of music. And it's complicated and can be a scary topic and it's causing a lot of debate. And I think most of the sync world at the moment is on board with saying we're not using AI music, but I also think that AI music right now isn't good enough to use, like, at least not in the commercial aspects, like where we use it, and ad agencies and brands are scared of it because they don't know where it's been derived from. Where is this coming from?

You know, are we infringing on someone's copyright? So, that's obviously a huge concern, but in my perspective, music-, AI music will get good enough to be used and replace existing music or artists or composers, you know, and then of course, everybody's like, what does that mean for us? And our career is obsolete.

And, you know, we run, we have three divisions to our business, to 411 Music Group. We have a production music arm, we have an artist arm, and we have a custom music arm. So, the fear I think amongst the production music world is that that could become obsolete. You know, if you have, an AI that can just generate whatever you need and score a whole project, then why are you going to hire this composer to do it?

Or why are you going to do a production music license, you know, for when you can just do it instantly and easily, and it sounds exactly like what you need. Again, we're not there yet, but I think we will be there. And, you know, I worry that, okay. One day production music won't be so important, and you know, it's so widely used globally, like in sync and TV shows.

And it's so important. It's taking up, I don't know what percentage, but a huge percentage of television and, you know, just any sync, that will then turn into artists, big artists and real people. And then AI music, you know, like will AI music replace what we do and some composers and, I think that it's already kind of happening that.

AI Artists are competing with real artists. So, we are also like now in that world. And it's like, is this a real artist? Is this a, it's just kind of new and still developing, I think, but yeah, it's something we're looking at. And I want to take the stance of not being afraid of it because I think a lot of people are and I can totally understand it. And we're already using AI tools and everything we do now, like, for search optimization and even just for like marketing, writing like posts and decks, and, you know, we're using AI and all sorts of ways but not for music yet. And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see where that takes us.

But I hope that it can be done ethically where artists can still get paid from it, you know, and not and this is-, I think this can be a whole topic in itself and I think there needs to be some form of like residuals going to artists, like if you're using their music and their art to create something new, a derivative work, for example, then you need that original artist needs to get paid.

So, then the tricky part is, how do you do that? How do you track it? Is it possible? Is that the goal for AI companies, to pay? Original rights holders, you know, and if we were ever involved in any type of AI, that's what the direction we would take. Like, we need to be able to make sure everyone still gets paid and isn't becoming obsolete and that it helps with the art versus, you know, taking away from it.

And of course you can use it now for, as a tool, like with creating stems if you don't have stems. And again, is it as good as actually just bouncing out original stems from the real song. No, but it's better than having nothing, you know, sometimes. So yeah, you can use it for tools like that, I think.

And like workflow optimization. But at the moment, I don't think music is good enough to like, replace what we do, for example, like AI music.

Michael: I feel like that was a very honest answer and like you mentioned, it's like a pretty, what's the wild west right now? And we're still figuring out a lot of the logistics of how do we compensate and what's the ownership, what it's like the copyright on AI generated works? Is it okay if they're trained on music like, and then they created an original work, but like, obviously it was like influenced by that in some way, but it's still created an original work debatably similar to how we create music by, you know, our inspirations.

Kristen: It's also difficult because we have always drawn inspiration from the past and music that's been written forever, you know, like people, their copyright, you know, there are lawsuits about this even now about writing new music and that's always sort of been the case and you're always going to like take from inspiration from whatever you see and hear around you.

But it's just being done in such an instant accessible form that it's like, oh, whoa, whoa. This was not-, this was not created by a human, you know, this was-. This is different. So, what does that mean? And what do we do with it? And how do we make sure that, you know, it doesn't infringe on anybody's rights, you know?

So, yeah, it is challenging, but I hope we'll get there. It's gonna happen no matter what we do. You know, I think it's just a matter of like, there's also a theory that there will be a push into more human, like, because of AI, like, oh well we don't want to have AI. We want to work with a real person, a real composer, and we want a real artist.

And you lose that connection and that personalness if you're just using AI. And again, like that could work for some things just like production music can work. To replace a big Beyoncé song because they can't afford that, you know, so that’s okay. I think that there will still be a need for Beyoncé to be licensed in that big Pepsi ad or whatever.

So, there's a need for both and I think we have to see how, like, it plays out in the AI space.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah, it’s super interesting. I mean, I think AI in general, just like, as it relates to humans, like, this is a discussion in the music industry, but just like, in general, we have this intelligence that is starting to approach Turing level, you know, tests of being able to sort of feel very human, like in the way that we communicate with it.

And it's not quite there like, like you mentioned, but you have to sort of take like a bit of a wider perspective and be like where was it a hundred years ago and 50 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago. Now, just like the rates at which it's like, you know, evolving is so fast that, you know, it's-, we're in for a-, it's an interesting time to be alive.

But yeah, as it relates to AI and music, it sounds like what the viewpoint that you take on it is that. You know, it really feels pretty inevitable that like these tools are going to make it easier for creators to, just very quickly create music for any intended purpose. And so, it's something that it makes sense.

It's understandable why we're afraid of it because, in reality, it's very likely to disrupt and sort of uproot a lot of the existing. Yeah, things that we have in place, but, you know, these are also useful tools that we can use to, decrease the amount of time and energy and effort required to achieve an outcome.

And so, it's something that you'd recommend kind of leaning into as a tool, as opposed to being afraid of it and trying to kind of and trying to avoid it. it kind of reminds me of like. The shift from analog to digital, with music, it seems like that was also a lot of like, you know, digital, it's like not real, like analog, like there's something you're, you're losing if you miss it.

And maybe you could argue the case subjectively, like there's something lost, but for all intents and purposes, like the world has gone digital. So, it's an interesting, point of time. And it does seem like there is that kind of pull, the tension between, like, digital versus organic and nature, and it seems like there's sort of a, a tension between those two, but I don't know if it's actually like, legitimate tension or like, it feels like there's sort of a-, there's an insinuation that digital isn't real or that is not real.

I mean, it's even it's in its name. It's like artificial intelligence. Like, it's not real. It's not real intelligence. But like, how do you define real? Like, it's a kind of intelligence, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's like a fake date. It's not, it's not real. It's just I'm starting to divulge into like a rebel here.

Kristen: It's very meta, but it's true what you're saying. And, you know, I think, there is this like interest and pull to all technology and progressing in that way, which I think is good. And then there's also this, pull to humanness and organic and nature and, you know, I think that those two are both existing simultaneously and may always exist simultaneously.

And I think it's true too. That's how I'm trying to look at it as this is going to happen. And it's happened along the way. It's just that our technology is so much more advanced now that it can advance so rapidly and it's harder to keep up. But yeah, I think, you know, where it's easy to be scared of the unknown and the future and what is the future going to hold?

And of course it can be worrisome, but I think that's why we all are talking about it now. And there are lawsuits happening and discussions and panels and, you know, forums about all of this. And how do we protect the rights of the creators and the artists and, you know, the publishers and the late, you know, everybody involved in the process and, and make it a good, useful thing versus a scary taking our jobs away thing, you know?

And yeah, that's the debate. So, I think I would just say like exploring it and understanding it and what's going on and what it means and educating ourselves about it will not hurt anybody. Is something that's probably necessary about how, like, in order to make it better, you know, and something we can use and look at versus be scared of, you know, but when someone creates one that actually works well, and can create a song that sounds.

Amazing, then we really will be okay. Now, what do we do with this? Because right now, it just kind of sounds like music elevator music at best, you know, not all of it, but yeah.

Michael: Some of them, like the-, I've been playing around with, udo.com and like some of the songs that's pumping out, like, I would not be able to know that that was AI. If I was just listening to it without of context.

There's this one song that I think they like feature on the roads. It's like Carolina. Oh, but it's like an indie country folk singer. And like as beautiful harmonies, I'm just like, what? Like, that's just absolutely wild.

Kristen: Yeah, I think also some brands, not many at all have used it as a marketing ploy. It worked. Like, I think there was this what red lobster video or something that used AI music and everybody went nuts about it. Like, what is this? It started a discussion. But most brands don't want to touch it.

And I'm also not even really listening to any of the AIs that are infringing on people's copyrights like some of them have songs, then music that sounds decent, sounds good but they have done it illegally, so I don't even I kind of discount those I guess, I shouldn't because it's still there. You know it's still making a song even if it's infringed on people's copyrights, but it's going to be interesting.

Even the next six months, it's going to be different than how it was now when we're speaking. So yeah, we'll see how it goes, but hopefully it can be a productive and constructive future for us still in music and talking about this then. Just, you know, ending it all. Like, it can get very doomsday when you start talking about tech and AI and, you know, Terminator. Yeah.

Michael: Yeah, we, most of the stories that we've like, you know, adopted in terms of like common myths as it relates to artificial intelligence are not a good, like a good outcome for humans. So hopefully that's like, you know, a nice like, okay, let's steer away from those outcomes. You know, there's a phrase that comes to mind in terms of what we're talking about right now.

And one thing I appreciate about the perspective that you're sharing is that, you know, it sounds like what you're saying is important just to sort of, embrace things as they are and also like have the courage to show up. And, in the humbleness to know that we don't, like, we're still figuring stuff out.

It's like, this is still kind of a new thing, but it reminds me of the song drive by Incubus. And, you know, it's fantastic.

Kristen: The old one.

Michael: About kind of like facing the unknown, facing the future and, about, you know, whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there with open arms and open eyes.

And it seems like that perspective, especially than like, the current place that we're in as things are evolving and changing faster and faster and faster. Like we need to have a willingness to be open minded. We need to be willing to adjust as more information comes in. And also, we need to have faith that like, whatever tomorrow brings, like we're going to be there.

We're going to show up and we're going to face it together.

Kristen: Yeah. And be smart about things like listen and contribute and participate in the discussion, you know, and it doesn't have to be a fight, but of course there will be a bit of that because you have to suss out all of the problems with it. And then you have to figure out how do we do that. And so, it can be a challenge.

It is a challenge but yeah, I think it's just important to listen and figure out everything together, if possible. But you know easier said than done. I think so, yeah.

Michael: It can be, yeah. Whatever tomorrow brings, we'll be there with open arms and open eyes. And we'll face the challenges as they come. Awesome. Well, Kristen, thank you so much again for taking the time to be here and show a little bit about your experience with sync licensing. And also, you know, talk about how can we best, prepare for, you know, for things to continue to evolve as it relates to AI.

And so, thank you for taking the time to, in the space to, to share your perspective and for anyone that's here right now, who's interested in exploring more of what you offer with 411 Music Group. Could you share a little bit more about, who's kind of the ideal best fit, artist for it and how can they reach out to get in touch?

Kristen: We have a submission forum on our website www.forwardoramusicgroup.com. Pretty easy, so you can submit, you know, as an artist or composer through there. And then we have creative meetings where we listen through submissions. And, you know, I would say, again, we're always looking for more pop artists, hip hop artists, up and coming artists, like, you know, amazing.

Trailer composers or sound designers. And, you know, because we're doing sync, it's really like runs the gamut, like there's just such a wide variety of things that we are looking for or need, we also need like archival music from different eras, you know, so it's not limited to just up and coming new pop artists.

We need, like really everything that, like, we need Latin stuff like, Spanish vocal, we get requests for French vocal we're getting a lot of requests for like we rep an African catalog from all over like different countries in Africa and specific artists from specific cities. And that's so, it's really useful for us, you know and a big ask at the moment and not just like Afrobeat, but like composers from like Nairobi or, you know, whatever, like there are very specific briefs we get for, you know, specific needs because a documentary or a film or a show was filmed in this place, or it focuses on this artist.

And we get a lot of requests for female composers because we're a female-owned and operated company. And I think, people know they can come to us for diversity. And our roster and our sound. And so that's really what we specialize in and pride ourselves in. So, we're always looking for diversity and what we're bringing in.

So long answer short is good music. That's well recorded and basically any genre, and just send it to us through our site and we'll listen and be happy when it's, you know, we get all those amazing new submissions from you and start working together.

Michael: Beautiful. Cool. Well, like always, we'll put all the links in the show notes for easy access. But Kristen, yeah, thanks for the podcast today.

Kristen: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Michael: Yeah.