Kaytee Long Becker: You do need to be at a point where PR is propelling the opportunities that you already have going. So it's not… PR is not meant to create opportunity, it's meant to support what's already happening and create the snowball effect. So it helps just expand your career from that point. 

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology, and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we 're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

All right, so I'm excited to be here today with Kaytee Long Becker. So Kaytee is a top PR expert for Grammy award winning musicians. She's known for her dynamic storytelling, fan acquisition strategies. She's the president of DIY PR Inc. She's gotten over 3,000 press placements and generated over 1 billion, with a B, impressions for her clients. She's also a respected member of the Recording Academy. And she shared her PR expertise internationally at prestigious institutions like the Berkeley College of Music. So I'm really excited to connect with her today. You know, we talked probably a few years ago now. I remember we had a great conversation. And I think it was related to PR publicity. And specifically today, I think it'd be interesting to share a little bit about the underneath the hood/behind the scenes of what goes into… what it takes to actually win a Grammy. We just had an amazing artist here yesterday who shared her experience charting her journey of releasing an album and winning a Grammy. And so getting a little bit of an understanding of exactly what happens underneath the hood, I think would be really helpful. So Kaytee, thank-you for taking the time to be here today.

Kaytee Long Becker: Thank-you so much, Michael. Yeah. It's great to chat again. I remember we had such a great conversation the first time, and I love that you had Carla on yesterday because that's who we just won a Grammy this year.

Michael Walker: So, yeah, super cool. It was funny, I sent a message after the interview and it went to you and it was at that moment that I realized I was like: Oh yeah. Very cool! 

Kaytee Long Becker: Oh yeah!

Michael: Very cool! Yeah, it's like a one, two punch. Yeah.

Kaytee: Oh my gosh. You didn't realize that before? That's funny. Carla… she was a dream to work with. We had so much fun on this campaign and it was just the most amazing experience to be able to have this. I've done FYC campaigns many times before, but it was so amazing to have this experience with her because… I'm sure you guys dove into her healing journey and what her album was about was it was recorded during her cancer treatment. And so, yeah, this woman is just happy to be alive. And it was just such a meaningful… and things like that always bring meaning to your work. That's really special. And the Grammy is the icing on the cake, right?

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, it's like, a Grammy is a great symbol, but it's just a symbol of kinda the under underlying journey that kind of came through it. So, to start with for someone who maybe this is their first time connecting with you, could you share a brief introduction in terms of how you started your PR company and found your way to working with Grammy Award-winning artists?

Kaytee: Yeah, absolutely. Let's see. Well, I started in entertainment PR out of school and I was doing film and television, so I was actually working the awards circuit, but it was for Oscars and Emmys and just more film and television focused. I come from a family of artists. So my mom was an incredible singer and actress and my cousin was on Broadway. So I'm just surrounded by artists. I sing. I've played piano since I was four and a half. So just, it's always been in my blood to be more on the music side of things. So about, I think it's eight years ago now I started DIY PR and it started from my passion of teaching artists how to promote themselves because that, I'm sure you know, it can be really challenging for, for an artist. And now it's become more widely spread for more and more. There's more information for people out there now. Back when I started, PR was like this cloak. People were like: how? How does this happen? What is this magic? So I created an online course that I helped artists learn how to do their own PR without hiring a publicist. And then that word of mouth just kind of spread and I started getting full-time clients, which wasn't the original intent but it worked out beautifully and I'm still working with a number of those clients to this day. So it's been a really beautiful journey with them. And that just kind of morphed. I have spoken at multiple conferences, DIY Musician Conference and at the Berklee College of Music, and just meeting tons of artists everywhere and have brought on some really incredible people on my roster. And then… how did FYC start? I started working with an artist named Cheryl B. Englehart and it's always been her dream to win a Grammy. So we started. So we had some incredible campaigns together, one with Martin Luther King Jr's goddaughter, Donzaleigh Abernathy. And that was kind of the catalyst for all these incredible press placements that we were getting, and it opened my eyes to music PR. Yes, it's great to be placed in music blogs, but where you're actually going to get real fans is from reaching the masses. So when you have a story like what we had with Donzaleigh Abernathy and we released it, we'll get into all of this, but there's a strategy releasing it during Black History Month, getting interviews that was placed in like Harper's Bazaar, People, just massive publications that could actually build a sustainable fan base. And so after that campaign, I just spent a lot of time focusing on people that have really incredible stories that make that human connection. And that's where I really just kind of thrive is being able to reach outside the box from the music industry. The music industry is great, but who reads music blogs? Mostly artists. Which again, that's great, but to be able to reach lifelong fans. It's great to go outside of there. So, we got a nomination for Cheryl the year before last. So 2022. nominated for best new age and piano chant album. And then Carla came to me in June for her album release (last June). We did an album release campaign and we can go into this to album release and FYC, which… Grammys are very different. So we did that with the intent of just doing an album release. And then I consulted her on what I thought the best category was and other pieces of the puzzle. And then we got a nomination. And that was like: Wow! Cause a lot of these people are really campaigning for a long time to get a nomination and it was such a beautiful moment because it really just showed how the music is still the master in this scenario cause it was her first year really submitting and going for it. So yeah, I'm sure I could get into a lot more, but we'll cover it and that's pretty much my story! Yeah. And here we are. 

Michael: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, and here we are. Yeah, beautiful. There's some super interesting points that you brought up there that are really important in the current landscape where you described how things are changing so quickly around music. There's more music than ever, but it's also, in some ways, harder to cut through the noise because there's so much music. Now there's AI music that's being generated as well. It's easier to distribute music. The information is exponential and how important it is to be able to cut through the noise and be able to connect in a human way, and you described how your journey with Carla was really about coming back to the roots of what music is really about and about that connection, that story, that emotion. So I know now you've worked with so many artists and I'm sure you've seen a lot of the same patterns and similar challenges, similar mistakes, similar things coming up. I'm curious specifically as it relates to stories and someone getting in touch with their own kind of core story or their artist story, or maybe like a campaign. I'm curious what you found. What's the most challenging part for artists generally, when they're getting started trying to come up with the stories for themselves? 

Kaytee: That's a great question. You know, I think the key is to not come up with something. Right. Like it needs to be authentic. I find that the lowest point of someone's career, life, whatever it may be, is usually that moment that actually creates a connection with someone. And so I really encouraged Carla to share her story when we started working with each other. I'm not sure if she shared this, but I've seen her share this publicly so I know it's okay to share. She initially was very… We kind of put a veil over what happened. We called it a near death experience. And as time went on, she got much more comfortable talking about her cancer journey. Lo and behold, actually part of her healing process was talking about it and sharing. And she did so many interviews. We focused on, of course, music and then also cancer survivors. There's a lot of podcasts out there that the host interviews with cancer survivors and other wellness publications. She's also a film composer, so we reached those publications too. But where the story where the human connection came from was the hardest point in her life, right? And the more comfortable she got with sharing that, the more people were just like: Oh my God, this woman is an incredible artist. Her music is beautiful. I understand where the music is coming from, you know? So it creates this whole different level of understanding that isn't available. I'm pretty private. I'm learning to be less private because I've realized that, myself being private, kind of cuts me off from actually having shared experiences with people. So I think throughout this entire thing is just a learning experience for all of us to be able to be human. Be proud of those experiences that we go through that aren't what you see on Instagram and this kind of picture that we paint of perfection and stuff. So, when it comes to an artist thinking: how should I go about this? Just be authentic. Honestly, that's the best thing you can do. If you've gone through something that you know other people can relate to, share it! It doesn't have to be directly related to the song you're releasing or anything. It's just that is your story and you should be proud of it. I'll also say you can't force it. When I talk about going outside of music press, you do need a hook. You need something that is going to connect with the reader. And if it's not fluid, if it's not authentic, this is obviously a very rare example, but with Donzaleigh and releasing during Black History Month, those were just things that made sense. People wanted to talk to her. It was a very clear, easy thing for me to present, storyline for me to present to writers and to press. But if I were to have forced any of that narrative in some way, it wouldn't have worked. It would have come off really inauthentic/cheesy, just not not what the media wants to cover. So I'll button it up. My advice is to just be authentic and not try to force anything. There will likely come a time in your career where you're doing a collaboration with someone who might be a little bit farther along in their career, and that's a great way to build your story and increase interest from other publications that might not be interested without that aspect.

Michael: Super interesting. Yeah. So, so much good stuff in there. The first thing that came to mind is just when you were describing how to find the authentic parts of your story and like how one radar/one kind of detector is if you can actually ask yourself: what was the lowest point or the darkest or like the most challenging point that I came to, that usually there's a woven in story there. There's something that can be shared there. It reminded me of in movies, how boring it would be if you went to see a movie and the whole movie was just like: everything is perfect! [singing] Everything is awesome! And that's the whole story. It'd be boring. There wouldn't be anything compelling. There'd be no transformation. There'd be no character development. So thinking about that in our own lives/our own stories, [sarcastically] what if our life has just been perfect and we've never had any challenges ever? I'm just kidding. It reminds me, I heard this somewhere, I think from a spiritual teacher, who was saying something along the lines of like: you don't have to create your own suffering. Life does a good enough job of doing that for you. A part of being human of growth and evolution is challenges. And it doesn't necessarily have to be. Like, sometimes there can be challenges that are entirely positive, like having a giant goal: I want to make life interplanetary and build spaceships, go to Mars. I’m not speaking about anyone in particular with that one. Even like things like that, it seems like that's a challenge or that creates a story. It creates something compelling based on that hook. You mentioned the idea of creating a hook or kind of finding something that is an easy way to connect with, based on your story. So I'm curious what your thought process is when you're working with an artist and you're looking for, what are some potential hooks or different/specific angles? How does someone who… maybe you can think of the most challenging point in your life. You have one of those experiences or moments and you're trying to figure out: how do I actually share that story or communicate it in a way that can create a compelling narrative?

Kaytee: Yeah, that's a great question. Do you mean as an artist or as a PR professional? I'm guessing you mean as an artist and if they're doing their own PR, then they are the PR professional.So, yeah, I would say once again, authenticity is super key. There's some little tricks when it comes to getting the word out there, I guess, and doing a PR campaign for yourself if you're not hiring someone. And so you always want to see if there is something that's press worthy and timely that makes sense with your story. So say you're a breast cancer survivor. Breast cancer awareness month is October, right? So you can release your music during October. You would then be pitching press who would be interested in that story in September. So you always want to get ahead of the game. You're pitching much earlier than your release is actually happening. Something else. This is so wild. And these things pop up and it's always just like keeping your awareness open, I guess, around things that could potentially align with you and with your story. Again, to Carla, the Grammys were hosted on World Cancer Day. We obviously didn't plan that. That was a huge serendipity that happened. But that was an angle. I'm going to be really sensitive, with that topic that we could use on the red carpet at the Grammys, right? And so that was really that drew people in another you know, she was the first LGBTQ person to win in her category ever. So that was another little nugget that I picked out of the PR roadmap, right? Taking a 30,000 foot view at her story, what are the things here that can potentially connect with people? And that was certainly one of them. And then as it happened, her other collaborators on the album were also LGBTQ. So on the red carpet, we did interviews with the leader of Tonality and then the Scorsio quartet as well. So all these things just kind of aligned. And when they are meant to, they do. Again, you just don't want to force these things. You can always focus on music press because music press is interested in the music release, right? That's what's press worthy when it comes to reaching out to music blogs and such. Until something happens that is part of a larger narrative, and then you can share it from a mass media perspective. Did that answer your question?

Michael: It definitely did. Yeah. I mean, so it sounds like you've been describing this entire interview, it's really important that this all comes from a place of authenticity. If you're trying to force something or create something that's not real, then that is not the best way to go about it. But instead, like an ice sculpture, you can kind of chip away at an ice sculpture to  focus on creating a piece of art. And it's really about: it was always there underneath. It's just about finding out those pieces that do connect and do resonate.

Kaytee: Absolutely! I have another example that just popped up. My client, Cheryl B. Engelhardt, she's an incredible storyteller. She's done a lot of these examples, but this one in particular, this is the one that she got nominated for for a Grammy. It was called the passenger was her album. She has a community of musicians as well. She wanted to create a journey for herself, for the album, for the community. She took an Amtrak train from New York to LA. She's based in New York and was coming out to LA. She wrote her album on the train, brought all of her equipment. And wrote all of it and recorded it in, I think it was seven days. She documented all of it obviously documented on the train, the actual adventure she was on, the landscape and everything. And then very sadly right before she left, her best friend passed away. And so that was a whole part of the experience. As well was the healing journey through creating this music/creating this album while also showing her community and musicians that you can record on the go. You can do all of these things when you're traveling. And that's part of her creative process as well is having a timeframe. And then also she's done a lot while she's traveling so I think that that has helped inspire her in a lot of moments. So, the whole story was built around this journey. And then it was titled “The Passenger”. Of course she did create that, but then all of these beautiful things happened that were very authentic along the way, right? So, you could always put a frame around something and then share the experience while it's happening. And that can help you build a story as well. 

Michael: Hmm. It's a super interesting way to put it: setting up the situation so that awesome stuff happens on its own in an authentic way.

Kaytee: Yeah, exactly!

Michael:  It seems like that's a good life principle in general. Just set up your environment.

Kaytee: Set yourself up for success. Yeah!

Michael: We've had Cheryl on the podcast a few times. She's awesome, but I had never heard that story. So that's super, super helpful. Well, you know what? We do have a live audience of musicians who are here right now. So, how about we actually invite them to share any questions?

All right. So I see VoZ raised his hand. So let's bring on VoZ. Hey, VOz, how are you doing today

Voz: Doing well, thank-you Michael. I put five questions in there, and rather than take too much time, no one wants to hear me, but if you would look through those questions and see if there's any that stick out to you. I particularly… since we're talking about authenticity, number five sits in, there are several things in there that I think would be interesting to just get Kaytee's perspective on such as women in music and things like that. But you choose. You're the moderator. Peace out.

Michael: Thanks, Voz.

Kaytee: Thank-you.

Michael: He did. He had five great questions here that we could choose from. There's two that jump out at me. I mean, the first one, I think it is definitely relevant is: when do you recommend an independent artist, hire a PR company or a person versus doing it themselves? And when's the right time for an artist to get some help with that?

Kaytee: That's such an important question because it's definitely not at the beginning. I'm very particular with people that I bring on to my roster as full service clients, because you do need to be at a point where PR is propelling the opportunities that you already have going. PR is not meant to create opportunity, it's meant to support what's already happening and create the snowball effect. So it helps just expand your career from that point. And I think that's a really common misconception. A lot of people think: hire a publicist and I'll become famous or I'll go viral. And that's just not the case. Don't ever give anyone any money who tells you that it is. And also PR is expensive. So you want it to be at a point in your career where it really makes sense. And 1) you don't have time to respond to inquiries from the press or you don't have just the bandwidth or you're like: I have so much going on. I just need someone on my team to support me. So when it comes to doing it yourself, you're completely capable of that. I'll share this with you. I don't think I've ever honestly shared this with anyone. I started my company. I had done PR for years. I went to school for PR, so I had a good knowledge base, but I started my music company. One day, I was like: I'm going to start a music PR company. I don't have any contacts. I don't know anyone in the industry. I love music. So that's what I'm going to do. And damn, that was a journey. But I am proof that someone is able to create those contacts, create those relationships, win Grammys, from starting from a DIY place. So, yeah, I would just encourage you if you're at that point where you're like: I want to learn about PR, I think it would be great to have quotes.

And so that's another thing. I do offer, I'm sure we'll touch on this later, but I do offer something that I call it an express PR campaign, which is different than a full service campaign. The express campaign is dipping your toes. It's much more affordable. It's dipping your toes into the world of PR and the point is to get quotes from media that you can use in your marketing materials. It can help grow your SEO and your online story and it's great social media content. So it does create momentum for you, but it's from a different space than a full service campaign that's creating this really thoughtful story around everything. It's meant to just kind of help support, but even that, if it's your first release, I would recommend that it would be much more effective for you to understand what is going on behind the scenes and just learn how to pitch yourself and get reviews yourself and all that. 

Michael: Got it. Super helpful. So what you're saying is that: if I'm just starting out from scratch, I've never released anything, I can't get a placement on Rolling Stone just because I released my new song?

Kaytee: No! [both laughing]

Michael: [sarcastically] Man, what’s the point?

Kaytee: I don't want to say no, but it is really important to manage expectations. Have I seen it? I mean, I've gotten someone's first release on Rolling Stone, India. I will say that.

Michael: Oh, wow. Well, there we go. Okay. Kaytee, let's make it happen. I want to be on Rolling Stone tomorrow!

Kaytee: I had a very close contact and the timing was right. And it just made sense. So nothing is impossible but it is important to manage your expectations.

Michael: Yeah, definitely makes sense. And then every once in a while you might have someone who's a first-time Grammy nominee who also just happens to win a Grammy award because it does come back to the root and comes back to the music. Cool.

Kaytee. Yeah, exactly.

Michael: All right. Well, let's keep on going through some of these questions here. Daniel was commenting on an earlier point of conversation: great advice using our darkest moments to bring light into the world. A book that saved my life states it perfectly: No matter how far down the scales we've gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.

Kaytee & Michael: [in unison) Yeah. That's so powerful.

Michael: Yeah. Bringing, bringing light to the darkness. That is like a profound blessing that you bring light to the dark side.

Kaytee: And that's what we're meant to do as artists. I believe that art comes from somewhere else. We're just the vessel. So being able to share that with others who can connect and create that human experience with each other; that's everything.

Michael: 100%. That's probably a somewhat good segue into this other question that the VoZ had asked which was related to AI as a tool. Especially because of the importance of humanness in the age of AI. I'm curious to hear your thoughts as it relates to AI as a tool to be able to assist your marketing efforts and as it relates to artists and them being able to share their stories as it relates to PR/publicity, and also just like, as it relates to everything we've been talking about with story and authenticity. How do you think that an artist should approach the topic of using Ai?

Kaytee: Yeah, I feel really strongly that it should not be involved in creating the actual art. I play piano, right? And I sing. So I don't do a lot of the like backend computer pieces of the puzzle. So I can't really speak to that, but I do feel that it is the artist's responsibility to keep that human aspect in art. Otherwise, what are we? And what's the world coming to? When it comes to marketing efforts, I do support it to an extent. I think it can be really helpful. First of all, an AI is only as good as you teach it. Right? So, if it helps you develop your bio or it helps you figure out how to write a press release, maybe those are certain pieces that can save you money and also just help you learn. I know for me, sometimes, I have used it for writing purposes. That being said, I would never publish something… There's always some tweaking that needs to be done because 1) sometimes, they're wrong. 2) You can't upload an audio file to ChatGPT and have it come up with a description of the work or anything like that. So, even if you do use it as a template, or a base to what you’re putting together, always make sure you're going through it with a fine tooth comb. Literally I've had many times where they're just absolutely wrong about something. So it's really important to keep that human eye on it.

Michael: It's funny cause when it's wrong too, it's so confidently wrong.

Kaytee: Right? You start to second guess yourself. You're like: wait!

Michael: It gaslights you into thinking that history is different.

Kaytee: Right. Yeah. Exactly. 

Michael: AI, I mean, it's fascinating. It sounds like what you're saying is that AI can be a really powerful tool, but we need to be careful not to lose touch with the actual humanness and the parts that actually make life worth living and the way that we're expressing ourselves. So like, it shouldn't be a tool where it's literally just like click a button without actually putting any sort of real soul into it, Cause if we do, then it's like: what's the point? But if you can use it in a way that really is just a tool that helps you express yourself and be creative and still bring those human elements to it, then there are some use cases where AI could be helpful for that.

Kaytee: Yeah. Great, great recap. Yes. Exactly.

Michael: Well, Kaytee, it's been great having you back on the podcast. Appreciate you and the work that you're doing with artists to help them to be able to shine a light on those areas of challenge and struggle and darkness to be able to heal; heal themselves, heal the world. For anyone that is here right now who is interested in learning more about the PR services that you've created, what would be the best place for 'em to go to connect deeper?

Kaytee: Yeah. Well, my Instagram is KayteeLongBecker. So that's the best place to connect. If you really want to learn about the express campaign that I mentioned or any of the other services, you can email me: It's Kaytee@diyprgroup.com. Always happy to chat with people.

Michael: Awesome. Well, let's give a virtual round of applause to Kaytee. 

Hey, it’s Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast then there’s a few ways to help us grow.

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