Michael Walker: So, if you’re listening to this then you likely already know that being an independent musician is a lonely road. And maybe your friends and your family just don’t fully understand why you do what you do, or why you invest so much time, energy, and money towards achieving your music goals. And especially early on, it can be hard to find people who really understand what you’re trying to accomplish and how to make it happen. So, that’s where ModernMusician comes in!

My name’s Michael Walker and I can understand and relate to that feeling. I’ve been there myself, and so has our team of independent artists. The truth is that basically everything good in my life has been a result of music. It’s the reason I met my wife, it’s why I have my 3 kids, it’s how I met my best friends. And now with Modern Musician, we have seen so many talented artists who started out with a dream, with a passion, but without really a fanbase or a business. And if they take that and turn it into a sustainable full-time career and be able to impact hundreds, thousands or even millions of fans with your music. We’ve had thousands of messages from artists who told us we’ve helped change their lives forever. It just gets even more exciting and fulfilling when you’re surrounded by a community of other people who get it, and who have shared their success and their knowledge with each other openly. So, if you are feeling called into making your music a full-time career and to be able to reach more people with your music, then I want to invite you to join our community so that we can help support your growth and we can help lift you up as you pursue your musical dreams. You’ll be able to interact in a community with other high-level artists, coaches, and industry professionals, as well as be able to participate in our daily live podcast, meet these amazing guests, and get access to completely free training. If you’d like to join our family of artists who truly care about your success, then click on the link in the show notes and sign-up now.

Carla Patullo: The fact that we can do it, the fact that I, an indie artist can hustle to get my music heard and to get a Grammy from that, I think that I'm just saying it's possible. You don't need that person to come in and take you there.

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology, and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

All right. So I'm excited to be here today with Carla Petullo. So Carla is a Grammy winning artist. She wrote an album called So She Howls, which is inspired by near death experience and features collaborations with the Scorchio Quartet, violinist Lili Hayden, among many others. And it sounds like she's done some really incredible work with shining a light on different causes in promoting inclusion for women, immigrants, and LGBTQ+ community. Today I was really excited to be able to connect with her on the podcast to be able to share a little bit about her story and her journey. I think for all of us as independent artists whenever we have the opportunity to see someone who has been able to do something like what you've done, Carla, and winning a Grammy is, I think for a lot of people who are in this audience, it's a big goal for them. So thank-you for taking the time to be here today.

Carla Patullo: Oh, thank-you for having me. It's really fun to sit down and chat with fellow musicians in the community. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thank-you.

Michael Walker: 100% So to start with, maybe you could share a little bit about your background and how do you go from starting out with music to eventually being able to win a Grammy?

Carla Patullo: Well, let me tell you this: I feel like a lot of the good things that have happened in my career were so unexpected and not planned. Like it just happened like that. But you know, to say, you got to put all the hard work behind it. Right? When I first started playing and got attracted to music, I just always wanted to compose more than learn how to play the piano, learn how to play the guitar. I just had these ideas in my head from a very young age. So in middle school, I started putting little EP’s together. Coming from a family that immigrated from Italy, my parents were like: you have to go to college. [both laughing] We don't care where or what you study, but you have to be like the first one in our family to go to college. So I was like: fine, I want to go to Berkeley College of Music. Being in the state, living in the state of Massachusetts, that kind of made that possible. I'm originally from Springfield, Mass. Studying, Music was.. I was studying songwriting, which is a fun major. I don't know what that major necessarily brought on paper, but it did bring me a lot of just experience, even just like collaborating with people. Did that and informed a band and went to New York and I've been kinda nomadic in a way, I think as a lot of musicians are. Then headed out to Austin, Texas and began working with Sandra Bernhardt who's a comedian, a musician and went on tour with her. And that's when I started to get into film scoring which led me all the way here to LA, which is a bulk of the work that I do, whether it's songs for TV, but also composing the score. Then of course there's my solo work which has kind of been on the back burner. I was focusing so much on film scores, the solo work just kind of came out of this crazy personal experience in my life. So, yeah, that summarizes it all.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm curious as someone who has sort of stumbled their way through, and you described luck. Luck is where opportunity meets preparedness.

Carla: Right.

Michael: At the same time, we have to appreciate the fact that some things just sort of happen. You wouldn't have expected them. That's where the greatest blessings can come from.

Carla: Yeah.

Michael: I'm curious on what some of the biggest challenges were that you struggled with when you were first getting started with your music.

Carla: Well, I think it's just financially being able to stay afloat, and also your boundaries of when you are working in film scoring, your boundaries get messed with a lot because there's crazy deadlines and stuff like that. And through what this album also taught me was just kind of to respect myself and my body, and that will feed into my creativity. So I think just managing what you can but not selling yourself too short either because you won't have the energy to keep going and be sustainable. 

Michael: Hmm. Learning how to set boundaries, especially in an industry where the deadlines are so urgent. So fierce. It definitely sounds like that's been an important lesson to learn. I know that part of your story is about a near death experience, if I read that correctly?

Carla: Yeah!

Michael: Could you share a little bit of details about that?

Carla: Sure. Because it kind of feeds into what we're talking about, because that's kind of what taught me to respect myself and my boundaries and my body. When I began writing “So She Howls”, I had been diagnosed with breast cancer and so it was a very therapeutic album for me. It's the first time I wrote an album that I didn't have any plan for it. I didn't even know it was going to be an album. It was literally like: I need to do something to get out of bed in the morning and motivate myself to fight and to get through this experience. And so thinking the fact that it would go on to get a Grammy is just still… I'm still like… what happened? Is this a beautiful dream? Like, just totally unexpected. And I think maybe it's because it really came from this moment that it was just a necessity. The music was just this thing I needed. It was very fundamental to when we all began probably writing music in our lives where we just loved it so much. And we weren't thinking about our bills and we weren't thinking about deadlines. We just had this pure joy for it. As horrible of an experience it was going through breast cancer, it allowed me to get into this fundamental place with music again and was a really incredible experience.

Michael: Thank-you for sharing that. Sorry you had to go through that experience. I can imagine that it must've been incredibly challenging, and also it's an interesting reminder of just how sometimes those challenges can become a blessing and they can help teach us things. Having been through that experience, it sounds like part of what you mentioned with setting boundaries and learning how to respect yourself and respect your body was something that came out of it. Could you share a little bit more details about how that came up for you?

Carla: BC, before breast cancer, it was this thing where when I would work, I would spend countless hours sitting in a chair for the whole 16 hours or whatever. And I kind of would pride myself on that. Because we're working and we're hustling to be composer and to… whatever. And I think that mentality, I personally found it to be wrong in the end. I think I'm actually much more efficient and a better composer, when I think about the food I'm eating, the walking I'm getting, the if I give my body and my mind space to live. It sounds pretty… it makes sense, right?

Michael: Yeah. It's only like what every scientific study has been telling us for a long time, but sometimes it's hard to actually apply the lessons that we know that we should be doing. 

Carla: Yeah, and you're asking yourself for this energy to make this music. And it's like, well, you gotta feed yourself. I had to do this because I was sick, so I think it would have been really hard to do that. I noticed myself now, I don't start working; I don't start doing things until I go out for my 2-3 mile walk in the morning. Come back. I make sure I get all the things my body needs. I take time to prepare my food. I know I sound super nerdy. [laughig]

Michael: I'm right there with you.

Carla: I'll tell you: I'm not less efficient. I feel like I'm more creative. I feel better. When I sit down to write, I'm quicker. I just feel ready to go.

Michael: It's powerful. I mean, what that reminds me of is the Abraham Lincoln who described the sharpening the saw concept, and it sounds like what you're saying is similar to that analogy. A lot of us feel like, especially in today's culture that prides itself on “hustle culture” and working really hard and overworking, that there can be a tendency to, if the analogy is like cutting down the tree, it's like to spend every day, every hour trying to cut down the tree with a saw.

Carla: Right

Michael: But what you're saying is that if you actually take care of yourself and you don't just spend all of your time cutting down the tree, but you actually take breaks and you actually sharpen the saw, then you're not less productive because you're not spending more time cutting, you're actually more productive because you have a sharp saw, so it's able to cut faster. 

Carla: Yeah, exactly. It's exactly that. I grew up in the restaurant business. So for me, that hustle and that being so busy that you're on edge the whole time was, for me, this signature of: Oh, I'm a hard worker. And so I've had to really shift that mentality. 

Michael: That's super helpful. Yeah. Again, it does seem like part of the culture right now is like there is sort of like a hustle mentality.

Carla: Yeah

Michael: So could you share a few extra examples of ways that you've learned how to take care of yourself and your body and kind of get in a good space so that you're able to be more productive?

Carla: I think one thing is, in the morning, I like to wake up and do my walks, but also have music with me that I just really love and give myself the space to enjoy the music elements that I love. Be a little greedy with yourself. Don't think about your work just yet. Get in the space of: this is what inspires me. This is fantastic. I love this song, and sit in it. Just do like a 20 minute walk and take that in. And I think that's just one way. I think also… If I'm doing a lot of the film scoring stuff and I don't have time to necessarily focus on my album that day, I still give myself 20 minutes to just explore that space and just to connect with it. Even if it's brief, I think just connecting with it. I think that helps me grow with this concept that I'm working on, even if I'm not working on it for eight hours or whatever. Yeah.

Michael: Super smart. Yeah. It reminds me of a book. I think it was called The Spark that was all about the benefits of walking and running. They found a huge impact in just the brain activity and the test results when they had people go for like a 20 minute walk versus someone who was just sitting down. It definitely seemed like there's some magic in that just going for a walk regularly throughout your day. 

Carla: Yeah. I think, being composers and musicians, we sit down a lot and our bodies want to move. I think it's like a synergy that happens when your body's moving and then like the creativity starting to wake up and starting to move. I think that's a good way to put a little fuel in your tank.

Michael: Yeah, 100%. I know that there are a lot of very smart people too, who were… I was going to say prudent, but that's not the correct word. They're ardent. That's another word I don't use very often, but they were ardent walkers. They would go for a walk. Albert Einstein was an example of someone who just went for tons of walks. There was also big pockets of what they call “blue zones” where people's lifespans are way above average. And one of the main differentiators that they would go for walks throughout the day. Awesome. Yeah.

Michael: Yeah. I'm one of those. We’re people in LA who like walks. Me and my partner have one car, but, of course, we cannot live here without a car, but we've make made “have’s” to where we can walk to. The hard thing is that when you are so busy and even for people who have kids and like, you're so busy and you're just finding that moment to get into the studio, it's hard. So I would just recommend even just 5 minutes, and start off with that. 

Michael: Yeah. That's great. Another point that you had brought up with the creativity and kind of setting aside some space to work on what brings you to life. And even if it's not 8 hours, setting aside 5-20 minutes to do it doesn't necessarily have to be like, you set aside a huge chunk, but just that little bite seems like a great way to generate momentum.

Carla: Yeah.

Michael: Awesome! So, I'd love to hear some more insights in terms of… maybe you can share your journey of creating your album and what that journey was like. You mentioned that, you didn't necessarily expect, going into it, that was to win a Grammy award. So I'm curious to hear a little bit more about that, that journey and what that looked like for you.

Michael: Yeah, so it really was kind of like this diary of things of what I was going through and it's very much in motion. It's like following the motion of my road to healing, really. What I usually do for recording an album was thrown out the window. In this case, I just started singing and humming and howling. That's how I came up with the album title. But you know, at first I would just be in my phone, just had these ideas coming out. I really didn't have the motivation to get up and make an album or to record or whatever. When I was going through treatment, some may know with cancer, at first you really don't know anything like what type of cancer you have, what's happening and all that. And you're in this unknown and I was kind of where I was in this frozen state where I couldn't really do anything. But as I started my treatment and my medicine started working, I was getting that energy. And so I was able to step-by-step, get up and be like: okay, maybe I'll just put a microphone and just record on my laptop. Just something very simple. And that's where it really started because I would just record these vocals and they would just be live of: okay, this is what I'm feeling right now. And that ended up becoming the fundamental part of some of these compositions. I kept all these vocals. They were very raw. The editor in me would have went in and like: Oh, let me tweak that and tweak that. But I did not do that. I wanted to preserve that energy. I didn't go rerecord anything. And I think that was important. I think that kind of led the way of: this album's going to be an archive thing of what I went through. Almost like the way you would treat a documentary. Right? It's like: we're recording this time and space in my life. And so I tried to honor that along the way. And then as I started getting better, I started reaching out to some musicians to come on and give me a little bit of their wings. I hope that people get that feeling of that magic when you have collaborators join you and kind of lift you up, and that translates to the friends or the family you have in your life that lifts you up when you're down. It just kind of all unfolded in this way that was just really resonating with me personally and how I was feeling emotionally.

Michael: Awesome. Thank-you for sharing that. It's definitely interesting hearing you share that story. And it sounds like you have some direct experience about different modalities; different ways of recording and how that experience was very authentic, very raw, came from this place that was really very emotional, versus maybe some other kinds of styles of music might be a little bit more intentional or more focused on writing for sync or TV. So I feel like it's an interesting lesson in sort of the power of authenticity and the power of writing music that lights something up in you.

Carla: Yeah. I think too before COVID... I began my breast cancer journey during COVID, but before that, I had this idea too:I think there's space for these live-to-two projects to come out where we're just performing again in front of two stereo mics or whatever. We're all playing together. I had been listening to some music like that and it's like: this is so refreshing just to have these live raw performances. And anyways. But these imperfections. I think that's something else with this album. It's like embracing those imperfections, and don't tune everything, love things that are slightly out of tune because as human, as we're dealing with these non-human elements, I think we need to embrace this.

Michael: Super interesting. Yeah. I think that's a really encouraging message because all of us are human and we're not perfect, and who we are is not black or white. And so being able to actually embrace that and share that seems like a powerful lesson. I don't know. Nowadays in the age of AI, as things are evolving so quickly, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on AI in music.

Carla: Yeah. Like these non-human elements make, I think that emotion, when it translates to is an emotion for the listener to feel vulnerable. Because it's like, when you hear something that's just not perfect, I think… For example, there's a song I play on this album live called “We Remember”, and it chokes me up every time I sing it. And I choke up on stage every time. After the show, people come up to me and they're like: we remember made me cry. [both laughing] And I'm like: I get it! But that vulnerability, I think, translates. I don't know. I think there's something special in that. And I think we should just own it and carry that forward.

Michael: Yeah. Thank-you for sharing that. There's a song that I wrote recently for my daughter, Willow called “Hello Willow”. That's one I can't play it without getting emotional and crying, so hearing you share that is inspiring for me to give myself permission to share that and be okay with it.

Carla: Yeah. That's beautiful.

Michael: All right. Well, you know what? We've got an amazing crew of musicians who are here in the audience, and I'd be curious to hear if anyone here has any questions for Carla. If so, feel free to raise your hand, come on here live, or if you want to put something in the chat that works as well. Looking here in the chat, I see Joe says: I'm a walker too. Walkers. It's a movement. My last name is Walker. Yeah, walking… walking is good. Yeah. Aside from the name. Daniel… it looks like I'm catching up on some older messages around when you're talking about recovery and rest and treating your body with respect. Daniel mentioned spontaneous napping and face snuzzling with my dogs throughout the day recharges my sense of peace. Multiple times throughout the day. I stop what I'm doing and soak up their wisdom by also going outside and stretching in the sunlight.

Carla: That's great. Yeah.

Michael: I also see some inspiring messages here. Joe says: cancer has ravaged the lives of so many people in my life. I feel you, Carla. Rock on.

Carla: Right on!

Michael: Here's a question for you, Carla. One of my favorite questions to ask is: if you could go back in time and you could go to your biggest point of need in your music journey when maybe you were at your rock bottom or your darkest, most challenging point, if you can go back to that point and you could give yourself one piece of advice, would that piece of advice be?

Carla: Ooh, that's a good one. Well, I think, back when I first started touring, those were some rocky times. [both laughing] I think I really got out of this healthy boundary with my body. I think that was a real time period where I just pushed myself so hard to the point of almost destruction and not wanting to do music. I would say like, just that unsustainable mentality I had back then. I wish I could have told myself to balance my energy out and not think it's the end all be all. Getting on the road was important to my growth, but I think pushing it to the point where I pushed it, where we were just trying to find places to sleep and all that stuff that is kind of toxic. Just not putting so much pressure on myself. I think. I know I'm like telling everybody the opposite. I don't want anyone to think I don't think you should work hard. [both laughing]

Michael: Work hard is good, but working smart…

Carla: Yeah. Work smart!

Michael: Taking care of yourself is… I mean, cause if you don't do that, who cares how successful you are on paper? If you're not fulfilled or happy or healthy, then it doesn't seem like that any of the other stuff really even makes a difference.

Carla: Yeah, exactly.

Michael: Yeah. Cool. I can definitely relate with you. Early on, I toured for about 10 years before I started Modern Musician. I remember the first year we hustled real hard and we were sleeping in our van, Walmart parking lots, peanut butter tortillas for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So I'm curious about any advice or recommendations you would have for the modern musician, like an independent musician, who maybe part of their goal is long-term they'd like to win a Grammy. Or maybe it's not a Grammy. Maybe they just want to know that their music is actually making a difference and positively impacting the lives of other people. What would be some piece of advice for the modern musician?

Carla: Well, first of all I would start off by saying that we are in a great indie place, I think. I think we could achieve a lot without… I think for years I wanted a label. I wanted this or that. I think there's this great space for us to really be able to hold on to who we are as artists, but also, use the tools out there that the labels use. It's a little bit, I feel, more of a playing field. I mean, of course they have a lot more money than us. [laughing] But I think there is a hustle of being able to communicate and reach people online and that's cool. That's the thing that, I would say when I first started out, that wasn't there. And I think that allows us to be authentic with ourselves more than trying to fit what this trend is right now, or what that is, who we should be according to what labels want us to be. I think it gives us this artistic freedom. That being said, we're not making albums on sales really, you know what I mean? Like we're just Spotify and all… The way that everything's set up, it's hard to be sustainable with some of these. So I think we just have to try to find creative ways of connecting and performing and holding on to who we are and holding on to… You know there was an interview I heard recently with Bonnie Raitt who I was so inspired by. It was on this podcast called Wiser Than Me, which is Julia Louis Dreyfus. But anyways, she was reflecting on her life and she kinda went into this whole thing that she's independent these years and she got away from the labels and she puts on her business hat. She puts on her artist hat and she does a lot of business work. And I think accepting that and being able to wear both hats is something that we should really get good at. I'm still always going to be working on getting better with the business part. I think it's tricky just trying to navigate that. I think the fact that we can do it. The fact that I, as an indie artist, can hustle to get my music heard and to get a Grammy from that. I think that I'm just saying it's possible. You don't need that person to come in and take you there.

Michael: So awesome. So, so encouraging to hear you say that too. What you just shared is like the heart and the mission and the ethos of Modern Musician and everything that we focus on here so it's great to hear that reflected as well. Here's something that I'd be curious to hear your perspective on. As someone who's had this musical experience where you're able to share and use your music as almost like a form of therapy, for someone who's listening to this right now who's an indie artist who has ambitions to build a successful career, how can they tap into that authentic source of creativity? And how can they maybe write music from that place, as opposed to what you described as trying to be someone or trying to be what other people think. Do you have any ideas or prompts or ways that people can maybe get in touch with that for themselves?

Carla: Yeah. The first track on the album, for example, just start with that cause it's called: If You Listen. And I think it's about listening to yourself and really listening to what's around you and taking that with you. I know I was pushed into this because of my illness. Like: this is it, Carla. I had to listen. Right? But I think just that connection with your environment. Where you are. Let that be a part of your sound. Let the people around you be a part of your sound. Sometimes it's more like: listen to yourself, more than trying to have that urge to listen to another artist that you love. I mean, sometimes some of my favorite artists, I love listening to her music, but I kind of limit myself doing that cause I just want to take time to explore really different things, and give myself a little bit… I think maybe that could be a starting point too: just listening to really stuff that is completely not you. Maybe an element of that can become yours and you can listen to that and transform that into how that is you. How that relates to you. Just expose yourself to these different things. Yeah, hope that helps. But yeah.

Michael: Super helpful. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. That sounds like what you're saying is that you can start with just being present and listening and being aware of what's happening inside of you. And part of the hustle kind of culture is maybe trying to be somewhere else or trying to achieve something or do something, but if you actually give yourself space, like you described, to actually just sit with who you are and to listen to actually what's happening, then that can be where that place of authenticity can come from. 

Carla: Yeah. And, just to add another fun little thing… It's the same as learning a new instrument when you're kind of in this unknown and vulnerable place where you're figuring out yourself. So I like to do that. I like to pick up an instrument that I don't know. Sometimes I'll just play notes not knowing where I'm going and I'll come up with a cool progression and there's something about that that's fun, but it kind of wakes up those senses of: let's listen to what I'm doing here. It makes you more alert I think.

Michael: It's a lot more playful or curious. You're kind of seeing what happens.

Carla: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Michael: All right. Well, we've got a couple of folks who raised their hands in the audience. So Mr. Joe Eddie! Let's bring you on stage. Hey, Joe, how you doing today?

Joe Eddie: Hey! Hey, Michael. Hey Carla.

Carla: Hey, Joe.

Joe Eddie: Thanks, thanks for being here, Carla. Congrats on the Grammy and the successful work of art, and beating cancer. 

Carla: Oh, thank-you!

Joe Eddie: Cancer has played a big role in my life with my wife and children and it's crazy. The battle.

Carla: Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear that.

Joe: Yeah. I'm just curious on, now that you've found some success with your art and it's been validated with a Grammy and you have things on track, what's your daily life like now? What are you working on now creatively, and what are some of your ambitions and goals now that you've kind of reached this level that a lot of us, yeah. What's next? What does the horizon become now?

Michael: Thanks, Joe!

Carla: Well, it's funny. Yeah, that's a great question because I'm still doing the things I love. So that hasn't changed, right? Maybe there's a little bit more of an opportunity of: more people might listen to it right now, or I don't know. I will say in the film scoring part, I've gotten some gigs out of it, thankfully. [both laughing] Those always keep the lights on. It's cool cause I feel like now with the film scoring part, people are starting to say: Oh, we want to come to you for your sound. We want to come for that thing that you do. And so I really love that. I think a door that's open for me is music therapy. Just the idea of incorporating some of those techniques into music and really kind of writing music that incorporates like these elements of… I just feel like I've opened the door to music therapy. I started researching things like binaural beats and I included some of that on the album, but I think there's so much more. I love to learn so I'm excited to really dive into that. Yeah. 

Michael: Super cool. I'm excited to hear what comes from that.

Carla: [singing] New album!

Michael: Yeah. Joe also put in the chat, all caps: Cool! Yeah. Awesome. Well, I think we probably have time for maybe 1 more question here and I see the one and only Daniel Cartier has got his hand up, so let's bring Daniel on stage. Hey Daniel.

Daniel Cartier: Hello! Can you hear me?

Michael: Mmmhmm!

Carla: Hello.

Daniel Cartier: Awesome! Yeah. Thanks so much for coming and sharing. This has been really awesome, amazing podcast today.

Carla: Awww! Thanks! 

Daniel Cartier:I really liked that you shared about picking up different instruments and just kind of just allowing yourself to unlock different parts of your mind that you wouldn't normally.

I write a lot. I'm a member of some of these, I don't know if they're cheesy or not, but a member of these like communities where they let you know: Hey, this TV show’s looking for this and so they need this. And so then everybody scrambles around. It's kind of like a cattle call. I still think being part of those things can force you to just start. I'd like to get your thoughts on that, I guess a little bit. Like putting yourself in situations where you're kind of forced to like, even if it's a long shot. A great example is: they were looking for creepy circus music and specifically like calliopes and stuff like that. And I'm literally covered in tattoos. I look like the tattooed man from the carnival. [all laughing] I kind of became mildly obsessed with recording. I couldn't stop! Every Public Domain song I wanted to record. But then the weird thing is, it got me really…. It's weird how different types of music will remind us of other types of music.

And so then I found myself listening to show tunes because it was reminding me of show tunes because it was theatrical. And then I was listening to stuff like the Cabaret soundtrack and stuff. And then I started writing songs that were more like singer/songwriter songs that had nothing to do with the challenge at all. So I guess I'd like to get your thoughts on putting yourself in situations where you'll kind of be forced to…. and you've probably had a lot of experience just through working the whole soundtrack arena as well I imagine.

Carla: Yeah. I mean, I still put together reels for projects. So it's a tricky balance between that, and your solo artist work. First of all, I just want to say that. I think like all these projects… you're like a sponge and I think you're doing everything right. You're absorbing all these sounds and you're honing them into yourself. You're making them your own. You're taking it in and you're going to process that and create something beautiful that's yours. I think that's great. I also think, for me, doing some of these things: putting together demos or writing demos for a project that I want to get, there's always something great that can come out of that: whether I learn a new tool, my production gets better. I think everything I do can get a lot better. You gotta keep going till the day you die. You just gotta get better. And I think you just get better and as you go, and I think these experiences of making these demos, or even if it's just the experience, even if you didn't write the demo and you took that time to take all this in. That's fantastic. And then of course, you think business wise. With all these demos, you're getting better and you can also maybe put those demos in a library somewhere and they can make a little bit of money or whatever. And it's all great what you're doing. It’s great!

Michael: Awesome.

Carla: I hope I answered your question. I don't know. I kind of just went off on it. [laughing]

Michael: I think it sounded like the question was mainly in terms of that specific strategy of writing songs in response to sync projects. Is that helpful or is there better ways to spend the time? And it sounds like what you're saying is it'd be a great way to generate some ideas from brainstorm.

Carla: Exactly. 

Michael: Cool. Well, Carla, thank-you again so much for taking the time to be here with us today and to share your journey and share some of the lessons that you learned.

Carla: Thank-you!

Michael: I try to remember the fact that we're living on borrowed time here; that life is very precious. And it's easy to forget that. So whenever I can have a conversation with someone like yourself that has been able to work through that and be able to share that lesson, I think it's incredibly inspiring, and thank-you. I'm sure like the courageousness that was required to put that into your music and then to share it and to put it out… Yeah, I'm sure that that pushed you in a lot of ways. So thank-you for doing that. And for anyone that's here right now who was like: okay, cool. I've heard all about the album now. I'd love to go check it out and listen to it cause it sounds awesome. What's the name of the album where they can go, and where it's the best place for them to go check it out?

Carla: Yeah, the album's called “So She Howls” and it's on all of the platforms, I will say on Apple, you can listen to it. It was done with what you might call it immersive. It was like an immersive mix.

Michael: Oh wow!

Carla: Yeah, so you can listen to it a little bit more in depth there. I had a fantastic mixer, Daniel Cresco mix it.

Michael: That’s it. I know the first album I'm going to listen to on my AppleVisionPro is going to be ”So She Howls”. [both laughing] Actually though, I'm really looking forward to that. It's really the AirPods I think are the things that are going to do like the 3D sound thing.

Carla: Yeah, the AirPods actually… this is why I got these AirPods was to listen to my own album when it was getting mixed on that platform. Yeah.

Michael: Very cool. All right. Well, like always, we're gonna put all the links in the show notes for easy access and let's give a virtual round of applause for Carla.

Carla: Aw. Thank-you guys. 

Michael: Yeeeeaaahhh! Hey, it’s Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast then there’s a few ways to help us grow.

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