Danielle Tucker: If you do have people loving and or hating your stuff, it means you're really doing something. You're doing something different and the energy you need to channel towards the people that are really loving what you're doing, lean into that and try to, not ignore what you're hearing from the more critical side, but to learn from it and just to say: yeah, this is painful; this does hurt, but I can use this! They're saying something about my art, and what can I kind of glean from that?

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

All right, I'm excited to be here today with Danielle Tucker. Danielle, we're talking a little bit behind the stage. If you're watching this live and you see that I'm green right now, it's because I've intentionally decided to set up a software that changes the color of my face based on how I'm feeling. So if I'm angry, then I turn green. No, I'm just kidding. Camera's broken, but that's okay. The show must go on! So we're just, we're green. I'm the Hulk. But I'm really excited to be here today with Danielle Tucker. Danielle is the founder of the Unstoppable Singer. They offer vocal coaching and mentoring and certainly focused on nurturing new talents in the industry. And she's also the host of the Unstoppable Singer podcast. She's an organizer of an annual virtual event, which I was a part of last year. It was incredibly well organized. It was really awesome event to be a part of, and today I'm really excited to catch up with her and talk about some of the common characteristics of the musicians and the vocalists that she works with in terms of what separates the artists who are able to become successful in the music industry, versus artists who struggle and maybe give up. It’s a great topic for the beginning of 2024 when we're really looking at developing the right mindset to be able to make this year the best one yet. Danielle, thank-you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Danielle: Yeah. Thank-you so much for having me, Michael. It's great to be here and thanks so much for participating in the summit last year. It was so great to have you. And I hope I didn't say anything triggering this morning that turned you green before we started, but I'll make it up. [both laughing]

Michael: [sarcastically] Yeah, it was just something about mentoring other people. I makes me so, so mad. Everyone should have to struggle and do it on their own and no mentorship.

Danielle: [sarcastically] Yeah! So unfair! 

Michael: Well, Danielle, to kick things off, I'd love to hear a little bit about your story. How you got started, how you discovered the Unstoppable Singer, and how started working with musicians.

Danielle: Sure. Yeah. Well, like any good musician story, I started singing as a kid at a very young age and grew up in the church choir community, went through school in choir. My mom was the type of mom who took me to all of the pageants and the talent shows. And I kind of really got my first professional start on Ed McMahon's star search when I was a teenager. And from there I began my career just working in cover bands, started doing some original music in the country genre and recorded my first EP in Nashville. And then I joined a cover band with a group of guys that I had met in my church band. This is going back almost 30-years ago now. We became great friends and then about 15 years later decided to form this corporate show band together and that project took off and was amazing. We were hitting record numbers in our business, and then 2020 hits. Just like for everybody else, things came to a screeching halt for us. I kind of sat idle for maybe a month, but then, being a very busy creative, I needed something to do; I needed some way to connect with the community and feel like I was still somehow part of the world. And so I started up this little weekly live stream with just local singers that were friends of mine. We'd get on every week and we would just discuss how we were getting by and different things we were learning with our extra time learning to build home studios or just finding those other avenues of income that we didn't know outside of the live performance space. It just kind of grew. I was consistent with it, and that that kind of sprung into this annual summit that I started. The unstoppable singer summit that I host every year where we bring in 30-40 industry professionals like yourself and just teach the singer/musician community how to make a great living, how to thrive in this business. Fast forward to today, that's what I'm still doing. The podcast is growing. I love to put out weekly podcasts interviewing singers that have made great achievements in their lives and careers. It's super inspiring. So I'm glad to be here and share it with your audience.

Michael: That's awesome. Yeah. What you just shared too, it seemed like a good entry point for the conversation today around mental resiliency and entrepreneurship. When we have adversity or struggles, like 2020 happened, COVID happened, you took that as an opportunity to explore something new and to create value and that's blossomed into something beautiful. I'd love to hear your perspective, for anyone that's listed in this or watching this right now, what do you see that kind of separates artists from being successful in the music industry, specifically the artists that you work with, like singers, have you noticed any common patterns or trends between the ones that are most successful and the ones that struggle the most?

Danielle: Yeah, I really do. And that's really how the name of my brand started: The Unstoppable Singer. I've interviewed well over, I think, 120 professional singers and musicians at this point. These are top vocal contractors, world-class musicians who have seen the absolute highest peaks and valleys that you can in a career. I have noticed a through line and it definitely always shines through in the final question that I ask each of my interviewees is: what is it that makes you unstoppable? That almost always comes down to having a very resilient spirit. These are that characteristics of having a lot of grit, and willing to be very vulnerable in this industry, willing to examine every success and failure to learn from it, and to just become the type of person who doesn't let anything get in their way. You know, there's meaning in every obstacle that comes up for them and they take it, they embrace it, and learn from it, and use it to kind of propel them into the next season of their career. So that's definitely, that is the common characteristic that I see in all of these successful musicians.

Michael: I love it. What that reminds me of is this phrase of you're turning poison into medicine and like alchemy in a sense. It's this idea of: you have challenges, you have these issues, but they actually can be something that's powerful, like a springboard that actually is a blessing. So as it relates to building that resiliency and for someone who, maybe they have a history of challenges that they're looking to overcome and they feel overwhelmed with the amount of things that are on their plate. How did they start to actually develop that kind of mental resiliency and how do they overcome bigger issues?

Danielle: Yeah. Well, I think one of the first things is just kind of examining the lens through which you view your struggles, your challenges in the industry. Are you taking every failure, every problem that comes your way, personally and using that as an indicator that things are not going right for you, or that this is all a mistake? Or are you saying: okay, this problem is being laid before me for a reason. How can I use this in my favor? So, I think that would be the first thing is just examining how you typically cope with your problems and that's hard. That's a hard question to ask yourself. It requires you to be brutally honest about the way you view the world. I think if you do come to a realization that wow, I do take all of this very personally, that will open a door to flip the switch on that, and then that will allow you to take other steps that cultivate then grow that resilient muscle inside of you. It really is something that you have to work on and establish as a habit. One example I can give of something that helps to start flexing that muscle or at least working it is setting goals. Let's say you know what your measurable achievable goals are. That'll help you stay motivated and focused, and when you're setting those goals and setting the measurable indicators whether you're on the right path to what you're doing, you can set up certain markers of potential downfalls that you might encounter on your path, and come up with some solutions ahead of time. So for instance, let's just say you're recording an album. We know that recording an album requires budgeting and funding and everything. Something that a lot of artists run into mid-creation is they run out of budget and then they think: well, how am I ever going to finish this? But if we have planned ahead of time to say: okay, well, this is my budget. What will I potentially do if costs end up being a little bit higher than I anticipate? Are there other resources I might be able to potentially tap into along the way? So we've kind of created this safety net for ourselves going forward. So I think just the planning, the setting goals and being very strategic in that fashion. There's other things that I think help to develop that resiliency is just learning from rejection. I'm sure as everybody has experienced in this field, you're going to hear “no” left and right. You're going to hear from haters online; trolling. You're going to hear the opinions of others on the art that you're creating. But just learning to separate your heart and soul from those words and just compartmentalize those and just take them for what they are. Recognizing that if you do have people loving and or hating your stuff, it means you're really doing something. You're doing something different and the energy you need to channel towards the people that are really loving what you're doing, lean into that and try to, not ignore what you're hearing from the more critical side, but to learn from it and just to say: yeah, this is painful; this does hurt, but I can use this in my favor. They're saying something about my art, and what can I kind of glean from that? Right? Another thing I think is really learning to adapt to change. I think we all learned a huge lesson from that when COVID hit. It was so unexpected and we're all just kind of living our best lives and doing our thing and expecting a certain future for ourselves, and when the rug was pulled out from underneath us, it really caught many of us in a very tricky spot. We either had all our eggs in one basket, like the live performance space and just didn't have anything else to turn to, or we just simply didn't know what to do with ourselves if we didn't have that creative live performance outlet. So just kind of developing habits and practice around acceptance that: you can plan for the future, but there's always a strong likelihood that things are going to change and if you look into the future and say: Hey, I've got a great plan for my future. I've got a strategy, but I also have an open heart and mind knowing that things could end up radically different a few months from now and I'm going to be okay if that happens. Those are a few tactics that I've used along the way in my own life too. I am just as much in step with the singers and musicians that I work with. I'm living this in my own life every day as well.

Michael: Yeah, that totally makes sense. I think it requires a certain humbleness to admit that all of us are still figuring this stuff out and the truth is things are changing so quickly to what was true 10 years ago is not necessarily true now. And now, AI is also coming on board and changing everything. So having the right mindset and being able to adapt quickly and being resilient, it seems like those are really the core things to focus on in a world that you have so much change. And what you're describing around the value of planning, while also having an open heart and open mind to be able to adjust, it seems like that's such a core principle that a lot of the most successful people in the world have really embraced. That idea of what man plans and God laughs is one of the phrases to describe it. Planning is invaluable, but plans are useless. There's a lot of these quotes and wisdom around this idea of: the act of planning, of using your brain to imagine the future, setting goals is super valuable, but if you're too attached to the specific outcome or the goal, then that can get in the way because life changes. I would love to hear you talk a little bit more about this idea of what you were describing earlier around taking responsibility and how that applies to a lot of different things like trolls. All of us as musicians certainly are going to face… I'd say let's lean on this because I know that this is like a big pain point that all of us struggle with and it doesn't go away. It only gets more pronounced. The more successful you become, the more trolls you will have, the more hate that will come. I know for a lot of musicians especially, it can be really challenging. So yeah, maybe we can go a little bit deeper on this topic of dealing with criticism or trolls and how do you separate what's actually constructive and helpful and glean the value from it while not taking it personally and while, while also, acknowledging that there's different types of feedback and some is just not constructive at all, and some actually it is helpful.

Danielle: Mhmm. I love the fact that you use the word “responsibility" because that's a really critical thing to understand about managing yourself in the spotlight, really, is knowing that: you are solely responsible for the direction in which you decide to take everything that is inevitably going to come at you. No matter what level of the business you're in, whether you are just a superstar or kind of a local hero, you're going to have people who love what you do, who hate what you do. You're going to have people rooting for you when you have successes and then you're going to have people hating on you when you have successes just out of jealousy. You're going to make mistakes in the public spotlight. And the first thing I believe, really, is just taking complete responsibility for that and knowing that you can always go one of two directions with these things that happen: you can take it down a path of negativity and victimization and hurt and destruction to your self worth and self esteem, or you can take it down another road of learning, growth, or development, forgiveness, contribution to the community. Those can be some incredibly hard decisions to make because our hearts and minds are usually running the show. So these are really habits and things that you have to practice. And I think it's important once you've really kind of developed that habit of, in the moment, asking yourself: okay, I'm upset, I'm feeling my feelings, this does hurt, I acknowledge that, I'm mad, I'm sad, I'm embarrassed, I'm whatever shade of emotion it is…

Michael: [in a hulk (?) voice] Angry! Ahhh!

Danielle: I think we all know where you're at today. Just acknowledging where you're at in that moment, and letting it simmer as long as you need it to, but not being reactive to the point where you're popping off on social media and responding to every little comment or email that that comes your way, but just kind of letting it sit for a minute, looking at it from a couple of different angles, and I think there's some questions that you can ask about those criticisms to determine: is this something I can learn and grow from and use in my favor, or is just this just straight up trash? I think some of those questions come down: to who is it that's dishing this out to me? Is this a person that I respect? Is this a person who is achieving and excelling and operating at a higher frequency than me? Someone that I would aspire to be? Is this someone that I know to be trustworthy? Or is this somebody who tends to coddle me and, kind of enable me in certain things? So it's important to ask those questions. And if you can confidently say that this is a person, I respect the feedback that they're giving me, and I accept it as feedback rather than destructive in nature towards me. That's a good question to ask. And then if it's coming from the general public, people that you don't personally know, I think an important question to ask is: the general public at large, is this a common criticism that I'm hearing? If you've got a thousand comments on a song, let's just say, and 1/1,000 is super harsh, I think it's easy to say we can just discard that and let that be that person's beef. But if you have developed an audience that's very loyal to you and really loves your music and say you've done something different and you've got an uproar from your audience saying: what is this? Listen to it and just ask yourself questions. Think about what was the motivator that caused you to do that different thing or say that different thing and what was your intent behind it, and did you intend for it to be something new and creative that you wanted to offer that audience, or was it something careless or mindless that you just threw out there, or was it something that you just didn't necessarily think through. And I think that if you have that close connection with your audience, I think it's a good thing to acknowledge it and address it very honestly and just say: Hey, I hear you, but I want you to know from my heart, here's why I did this certain thing, or made this certain change. I’m who I am and I'm okay with it and I hope that eventually you will be. So I think those are some things that can help to address those things that are just inevitable.

Michael: So good. Yeah, because of the fact that it's never going to go away and that's going to be a bigger issue as you grow is that you're going to have more people that don't resonate with you or that don't like your music, and some of the most successful musicians of all time, they have more haters than almost anyone else too. Understanding that definitely helps in terms of not taking it personally, and just the process of being able to create some space from yourself and your own perspective and not take it personally. It seems like a superpower to be able to develop.

Danielle: Yeah. It really is.

Michael: So we talked a little bit about this idea of taking responsibility and ownership, and it does seem like that word “responsibility” is a powerful foundation for: how do you view life and the world and your role in the world, and this is one of those core like lenses, as the word you described it, a lens that basically either flavors the world in a very empowering way or flavors it in a very challenging and victimizing way. I would love to hear you talk a little bit about the idea of responsibility versus the victim mindset and specifically talking about the victim mindset, what are some of the traps or some of the ways of thinking that when we notice… all of us have both of these things in us and we have the potential to feel sorry for ourselves and it can be okay sometimes. Sometimes we can feel sorry for ourselves, but to fall into a habit of taking that lane can be really unempowering. I would love to hear if you have any recommendations as it relates to just self-monitoring and noticing certain lenses or ways of looking at it that might be an indicator that we're falling into this trap of being a victim, versus taking responsibility for ourselves.

Danielle: Yeah, definitely. I'd love to talk about that. This is definitely something that's really, really close to me. The past two years have been a very challenging season, a season of just like radical change in my life coming from a very comfortable space in my life, in a place where I was really thriving, and then some very major things took a turn for me. I want to go back to the comment that I made earlier which is: you really do have that decision to take things in one direction or another. You can put a spin on anything in any way that you want to. Let's say you decide to take it down that negative route of victimization. That type of thinking will be a downward spiral, and sometimes we just can't talk ourselves out of that. And that's okay. That's part of the human experience. We all go through that. And I think if you find yourself in that space where you just are feeling low and defeated and just feel like nothing is going right and you just can't get a hit, you can't get anything to work right, you're in a mindset; you're in a place, and  accepting it. I know it doesn't feel like it in the moment, it can be so isolating, but knowing that you are not alone in that space. Many of us find ourselves in that space and I think recognizing it for what it is, is probably that first step is just not ignoring it and just living in the muck and mire of that every single day, but if you can, at some point, stop and say: okay, I recognize that these are emotions, it's not necessarily reality, then I think you can begin to take steps forward. I'm a huge advocate of getting help from those that can help you. Reaching out to friends and family and your community, seeking the guidance of a therapist, mindset coaches, looking for different resources online that are uplifting, inspiring, books, movies, anything that will trigger good emotions, good thoughts in your mind. We're constantly feeding ourselves. You are what you eat, and that comes to what it is that you're putting in your brain as well. But again, we also have that choice of going down the other road and that can be equally as challenging as going down the road of negativity, because to take a negative situation or negative feedback and go down a positive road with it, requires you to give up the vice of victimization. Victimization can be a very easy drug to thrive off of. It makes us feel like… I don't know, it gives off a certain hormone in our body, and sometimes when you decide to take a higher road with something, you have to let go of that. Going back to this season of my own life, I lived in the challenge of what I was going through and I felt through the emotions, which were very difficult. I certainly jumped into the pool of victimization quite a few times, but then I got to a point where I recognized where my responsibility was in getting to where I had gotten, and then recognized that it's my responsibility to get myself out of this too. I made that decision that I handle my situations, did everything that I could to make them right, turn the situations around, and gave it my best effort; my best energy. And then I had to acknowledge: it's time to leave that there and move forward, and I can't continue to pick up what's happened in the past. And so, now, as I am in this space where I'm moving forward, I have energy building, I have momentum building. When I have those moments that kind of dip me into that pool of victimization, or just kind of feeling sorry for myself, I have that ability to control that. We all can control our thoughts. You just have to tell yourself: okay, stop! I see what's happening here: for the last five minutes I've been thinking about how terrible this situation is, or this comment or whatever. Just stop. That is not serving me at all. I can live in that for like the next 10 hours today, or I can just let it go and keep moving forward. And a big key is recognizing that you can control those thoughts, but you have to take responsibility for that and work that habit of doing that. There's a great psychologist online who I heard this example from. I'm totally spacing on his name right now but anyways. He tells his listeners to do this practice, which is to close your eyes and picture an elephant sitting on your driveway. Now picture him juggling circus balls, and now picture him doing cartwheels. All of these different things, and now open your eyes, and he's just proven to you that you can control your thoughts. You told your mind where to go with that scenario. And so we all have that ability to just say: okay, stop, this isn't serving me. It's time to go down another path that is going to serve me better energetically.

Michael: Super powerful. I mean, this is some deep-level human work that we're doing here that can really ripple out across many different facets of our lives, in addition to our music. A couple of the points that you brought up that I feel like are extremely beneficial are: when you talked about the victim mindset and noticing the payoff in that they actually have to let go of something. You're getting something out of the victim mindset that kind of feels good. It gives you an excuse to… it's almost like you get to feel a bit sorry for yourself. And I'm saying this as someone who has been there and it's something that I have experienced as well, sort of that payoff, that weird kind of bittersweet payoff of getting to feel sorry for yourself. And letting that go is… you are letting go of something. But also, acknowledging what you get out of the equation as well.

So I'd love to invite anyone who's here live to ask any specific questions that you have from Danielle. And if you'd like to, you can raise your hand to come on here live. Otherwise you can also share them in the chat and I'm happy to share those with Danielle as well. So I see Daniel has his hand up. So let's bring Daniel on here live.

Daniel Cartier: Hey, how are you? Hello everybody. I totally forgot this podcast was happening and then I was like: oh my god, and I'm so glad that I tuned in. This is awesome stuff. I think we all struggle with that self pity thing. I sound like a broken record this week and I just celebrated five years of sobriety on Saturday. And the only reason why I bring that up, not to be all full of myself, cause a lot of people stay sober their whole life.

Michael: That's an incredible accomplishment.

Danielle: Yeah.

Daniel Cartier: The only reason why I bring it up is because it was a huge part of why I drank. I mean, that self pity thing. I say to spawn C's a lot of times: there's nothing more delicious than a good resentment or a good self pity. That's like a big piece of steak, man. If I can sit around feeling sorry for myself, I can waste… I can spend a lot of time. Like that's an activity, right? That's an afternoon. Like: oh my God, they didn't watch my video and I spent so much time making it! Or like, they didn't do this. Or like, I posted this, I sent out a mass email and I only got like 3 responses. It's like a very real healing. I think it's okay. So I want to get your opinion on this. I guess it's my question. Because I think we sometimes have a tendency to want to be perfect as well and perfectionism? That's also a dangerous drug. So I want to get your thoughts on giving yourself the grace space to be human and kind of let yourself have those feelings because we're going to have them. I mean, it's like when I break that serenity prayer down, the things that I know is: grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. Feelings are going to happen. They're just going to happen. And can I not beat myself up about them and use those negative feelings to learn from them and if I'm learning from them, and if I'm not staying there too long, for me one of the big things is gratitude lists. That's a huge thing, like gratitude lists, are major. And then also garnering some inspiration from people that I'm not necessarily a fan of because if somebody leaves me a comment like: your music sucks! Then I'm all like touching my pearls like all affronted about it. The reality is there's plenty of people, some huge musicians, that I'm just not a fan of. I like most music. Thank God, they don't listen to my opinion and they're just going about their merry way and they're employing people and they're successful and supporting their families and they're paying for their health insurance and their groceries and everything. Thank God they're not like stopping everything they're doing and going that: musician Daniel Cartier hates us. We should just stop. [everybody laughing] We should just stop. He doesn't like us, so thank goodness. I can actually garner inspiration from people that I'm not necessarily a fan of or remember when Britney Spears was all over the media for shaving her head and all that stuff. Like you mentioned, obviously had a lot of haters. At the same time, man, she kept getting on that stage, kept showing up, and so who had the last laugh? Anyway, I'm sorry to blab. I blab. I guess my thing is: what do you think about, the whole thing of allowing ourselves to go there for a little while, and just kind of allow ourselves the humanity of those feelings? Make sense?

Michael: Totally makes sense. Yeah. Thanks, Daniel. That's a great question. I appreciate the “blabbing”. I think it's fantastic. And congratulations on 5 years of sobriety. I think that's a huge inspiration.

Danielle: Yeah. I agree that talking about perfectionism is a huge key component to all of this, when it comes to mindset and just from an artistry perspective. Perfectionism is so vanilla. If you are putting out perfect art into the world, you are basing that off of some sort of a formula or model that you have sourced. It's easy to imitate and model yourself after something and try to get every single point right, but perfectionism is also such a facade and it's such thin ice that we skate on. Eventually, something's going to break through that and you used the Britney Spears example and that's a really good example. Here's someone who was in the spotlight who every teenage girl wanted to be and every teenage boy wanted to be with. She was like our image, at that moment in history. We didn't know what was going on behind the scenes at that time. Now we know more, what she was up against trying to please her family and her handlers and maintain this image and it broke her. It just mentally broke her and it oozed its way into the public in really tragic ways through what we saw in her actions and just getting glimpses of her private mental health struggles. We saw how it was impacting her relationships, her children. Trying to maintain something like that is destructive, and it's a tough path to walk down. And I think we've all experienced that to some degree, but it's such a gift when you come to a place in your life where you recognize that your imperfections, your unique quirks even your biggest character flaws are who you are in the world, and there's value in every single dimension of that. Even when it's a negative aspect of you, that is something that you contribute to the world when you show the world what you're going to do with that. I think we've seen all kinds of comeback stories that are wildly inspirational and have turned so many lives around, but I think the sooner we can all get to a place where we give ourselves that grace and we can be kind to ourselves and when we can catch those moments when we're being super critical of what we're doing and just be like: you know what? This is not really something that I need to change about me. Why am I putting so much energy into this small little thing when it's just part of who I am? It's not going to be earth shattering to anybody if I don't, I don't know, let's just take body image as a singular example, the general public's not going to probably see 2-3 pound weight gain or loss, when, sometimes in our minds, it can be huge and inflated. That's a small example, but just being able to, once again, go back to the concept of responsibility and just know that you're responsible for wrangling those thoughts and reigning them in.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. It's so good. And it seems like a lot of what you're describing and this whole conversation has been really about acceptance and having grace to be present with where things are right now, whether you're in a place of struggle or challenge or wherever you are. You are there and it's okay to be where you're at. If you notice yourself having a “victim mindset”, then, even with that, you have to sort of accept that and be like: okay, like that's what's happening right now, versus you got angry about it. Then you have a victim mindset about having a victim mindset about having… there's like this endless cycle. I love what you said about having the grace to accept who you are and acknowledging that you're not a perfect human and none of us are perfect humans. And in a lot of cases, our flaws; our imperfections are actually the things that give us character. And they're actually the things that allow us to, to be authentic and to be who we are. Really powerful reminder. 

Well, Danielle, thank-you so much for coming on the podcast today. Yeah, I am not nearly as angry as I look like as the Hulk right now, but I really appreciate this conversation. I think that this kind of inner work is really at the core of what leads to a happy life as well as music career and success in general. Thank-you for being that voice for all of us. For those of us who are watching or listening to this right now, what'd be the best place for them to go to connect more if they're interested in learning more from Unstoppable Singer?

Danielle: Yeah, thank-you so much for having me, Michael. I love this conversation so much. The best place to get started with me is to check out my podcast the Unstoppable Singer, which is on every major podcast platform, where I talk to singers and musicians every week and we have super inspiring conversations. I kind of keep everybody up to date on what's going on with the Unstoppable Singer and the events that I produce through the podcast. I'm on Instagram @unstoppablesinger.

Michael: Awesome. Well, like always, we'll put all the links in the show notes for easy access. And Danielle, thank-you so much for being here today.

Daneille: Thank-you, Michael. It's a pleasure.

Michael: Yeah

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