Michael Walker: If you’re listening to this then you likely already know that being an independent musician is a lonely road. And maybe your friends and your family don’t fully understand why you do what you do, or why you invest so much time, energy, and money achieving your music goals. And especially early on, it can be hard to find people who really understand what you’re trying to accomplish and how to make it happen. So, that’s where Modern Musician comes in!

My name’s Michael Walker and I can understand and relate to that feeling. I’ve been there myself, and so has our team of independent artists. The truth is that basically everything good in my life has been a result of music. It’s the reason I met my wife, my 3 kids, it’s how I met my best friends. And now with Modern Musician, we have seen so many talented artists who started out with a dream, with a passion, without really a fanbase or a business. And you’ll take that and turn it into a sustainable full-time career and be able to impact hundreds, maybe even thousands or millions of fans with your music. We’ve had thousands of messages from artists who told us we’ve helped change their lives forever. It just gets even more exciting and fulfilling when you’re surrounded by a community of other people who get it, and who have shared their knowledge and success with each other openly. So, if you are feeling called into making your music a full-time career and to be able to reach more people with your music, then I want to invite you to join our community so that we can help support your growth and we can help lift you up as you pursue your musical dreams. You’ll be able to interact in a community with other high-level artists, coaches, and industry professionals, as well as be able to participate in our daily live podcast, meet these amazing guests, and get access to completely free training. If you’d like to join our family of artists who truly care about your success, then click on the link in the show notes and sign-up now.

HannaH Ardenski: Once you have all these maybe things written out as what you want to create in 2024, then actually write it out and Michael, you talk about this with future gratitudes, right? Starting with “I am so happy and grateful now that….” and then writing visions from that place.But I think really what's most important as that you write it out, cause there's a lot of power in that.

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology, and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Yeah, here we go. Yes, we made it. All right. I'm so excited to be here today with HannaH Ordensky. HannaH is one of my favorite human beings. She's our artist identity coach leader at Modern Musician. And she's a musician, life coach, yoga instructor, a champion for independent artists. She has a band called HannaH's Field she's released seven albums and opened for numerous national acts and off the stage, she helps others find their true voice and she's an incredible life coach and our identity coach here at Modern Musician. So I'm incredibly grateful for HannaH. Every artist I know that has a session with you comes out of it with so much more clarity around who they are and their vision and really, the impact that they want to make with their music, which is at the core of what we're even doing here with our music and just as humans in general. So I think it's really sacred work that you're doing. Talk about great times to bring you on to the podcast right now. At the time of recording it, this is January 2nd, it's a new year. It's fresh. People are starting to think about what is this year all about? The old you dies, the new you comes into focus. I'm really looking forward to having a conversation around how to clarify your vision and really get to the core of your artist identity. So HannaH, thank-you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Hannah: Yeah. Thanks for being good to hang out.

Michael: Absolutely. So to kick things off I'd love to hear a quick introduction. If you wanted to share a little bit about your story and how you became an artist identity coach at Modern Musician and what kind of motivated you and how you find yourself at this point.

Hannah: Yes, absolutely. I am a child of the original flower children. What that means is I was raised by hippies [both laughing] and my parents actually met hitchhiking when the Newport Jazz Festival broke up in a riot. My mom found herself with two of her guy friends that she was traveling with without a ride. She lost her ride like a lot of people that day and my dad picked her up and her two friends. So really, my roots come from people coming together through peace, love and music and also helping others. So that's really, I think, what I've always stood for with my music, and then also a huge part of my life has always been helping others as a coach; as a vocal coach, as a life coach, and now super, super grateful and honored to be able to work with a Modern Musician and helping artists do that.

Michael: That's beautiful. There is something… It almost feels like it's in our DNA as humans that we need mentors, but then if we want to live our fullest life, it seems like there's mentoring other people too, and helping people. It's almost like we have an opportunity to mentor a previous version of ourselves and to pay it forward. It does seem like both of those sides of things; we both always need mentors and by paying it forward, it helps us be in alignment with our gifts. You're a great embodiment of that.

Hannah: Yeah, majorly. I so believe and have always had amazing coaches, from, if you can think about like soccer coach and then vocal coaches and then life coaching coaches and Michael Walker and just always having somebody to just listen to and to talk to for guidance. On the other end, I think just teaching and coaching also helps us to be super in line with any of those main focuses or main points that we attempt to follow on a day-to-day basis. Teaching it is like that next level of having it sink into our core and in ourselves and helps us to learn too.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. So I'd love to hear your perspective from the experience that you have now, both working on your own craft, your own music, and now also working with hundreds, maybe even thousands of artists one-on-one through the artist identity sessions. What do you see as the biggest initial challenges or the places where artists miss the mark when it comes to this important process of identifying who they are and their brand and what they're here for.

Hannah: Yeah, I think a lot of artists come in and I think just not realizing that they have a story or that their story is powerful, no matter how either normal it seems, or there's a lot of people that come in with trauma and really amazing things that they've had to overcome to be where they are. So yeah, just not knowing that they have a story or that they can share their story, and also realizing that they have the power to decide what they share of their story, which I think is very important. Some people come in and they're like: Ooh, I don't know if I wanna share this. This is really, really personal. Which is understandable, but also, usually on our sessions, we find the connection between how what they share, and I know you talk about that a lot, how what they share can help others. Yeah.

Michael: That's powerful. Yeah. I'd love to hear your perspective on… because that work of identifying who we are and our stories, it's interesting that you mentioned that. For all of us, the analogy I've heard before is that we're like fish. If a fish swims in the ocean and it's always in water, then if you say “you're in water right now”. What are you talking about? What does that mean? This is just the way it is. It's normal. All of us are steeped in our own stories and our own life situation, and a lot of those things that we take for granted; we don't think are special because it's just our normal lives, other people look at it and they're like: Whoa, that's actually really unique or that's interesting. It's a great reminder. You also spoke a little bit about this idea of how we can share our gift and our story. In some cases, it brings up underlying trauma or challenging situations/struggles, kinda learning how to come to grips with those things and heal from them, and to share that through your music is kind of a reoccurring theme. I'm curious to hear how, from your perspective/perception, what's the relationship between trauma and an artist's struggles and challenges, and how those incorporate with their brand and their purpose and how they show up in their music?

HannaH: Yeah, definitely. I know most everybody are musicians and there's a lot of songwriters watching, and I know from personal experience, just writing songs is such a healing process or has been a healing process for me, personally. When things come up in life, a lot of times I'll go to the journal or I'll go to the piano or I'll go to my guitar. A lot of times when an artist has trauma, that trauma comes out in their songs. So whether they're sharing that by speaking their story or by sharing their songs, that listener on the other side is hearing that and is oftentimes relating to it, whether it's the same challenge or a different challenge. And then that power of the audience member or our fans being able to tap in and say: yeah, me too! Oh, you've been through something really intense. So have I! and it just brings that audience member in closer and really just as human connection brings us in closer, which is a huge part, I think, of all of our healing path is connecting with others, whether through music or hanging out, talking, discussing, learning.

Michael: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. By sharing those parts of yourself, especially the ones that feel vulnerable, or the parts that are scary to share, or the pain that you've been through, that can help provide a voice for other people that haven't been able to express or fully feel those feelings. I guess, you don't necessarily have to create songs about your trauma or about your darkest points.

I'm also curious to hear how: do you think about this in terms of artists from different styles. I guess maybe a better question is for an artist to listen to this right now, how can they start to try to put a finger on the thing that makes them unique or their style or their brand, their identity, and how much that may or may not relate to their trauma.

Hannah: Yeah, definitely. It's such a good point that you have because a lot of times, that story of their trauma is not directly connected to the music that they're creating. In that case, not that it's not okay to share that story, but sometimes it just doesn't make sense or the story might not be a thing that's going to resonate with their fans, and sometimes I think it could do the opposite, depending on the style of music that they're creating. But yeah, if somebody is brand new and it's just like brand? What is brand? What is my identity? I have no idea! Really the first place to start, I think, is with your human identity: What lights you up as a person, and start to really tap into that and even just write down thoughts; write down words and then start to correlate that with your music. Okay. What parts of this that lights me up as a human is also connected to the music that I make, because usually those things are easy to talk about or to communicate about. So that's a really good place to start. And then a lot of times it's just things that… even with colors, right? What colors are you resonating with? What other bands' images are you resonating with? Why does that imagery of this band really make me look every time that I see that, or every time I see that sticker or logo? What is that about it? And how can I create something that's unique to me, but with that thing that lights me up or turns me on?

Michael: That's such a good point. Yeah. What came up in my mind, as you're describing that was one of our partners, Friedemann from Holistic Songwriting, has this amazing exercise and he's taught it to our community a few times, usually at our mastermind groups. So we just did one Hawaii and he shared this exercise where basically you start by making a list of all of your favorite things. This could be music-related to be artists or it could be songs or movies or just anything in general: What are your favorite things and getting really specific with it. And then describing the adjectives that describe those things. I'm giving away the punchline here because this is a special moment, like when you do it, but I don't think this necessarily takes away from the exercise. After you go through that process, you look at all those adjectives and you look at those things, and he says: these are all adjectives that describe you. These are a part of your brand and who you are. And it's so true. There's our relationships with and how we perceive other things around us and in so many cases, they say more about us than they say about the other thing. The exercise you just shared, HannaH around finding your references, your influences and thinking about my favorite artists and my favorite visuals and identifying what is it that I resonate with about them. It's a great way to look within and figure out what it is about you that you want to create for yourself. It's also a good reminder that we all have our sources; we all have our influences, and similar to the way that we're all born because we have parents that had a baby and you have pieces of you, like your DNA is literally like from your parents and your generational lines. At the same time, there's something new too; they come together to create something new, which is you. And that's why your siblings aren't necessarily the same as you, but you have these traits. The same thing definitely applies to our music. It's not like any of us were born in a vacuum and it's like: wow, I just had a truly original thought. It's like no, like this all comes from influences and inspiration and who we are is really such a factor of everyone and everything around us as well, that you are just hearing, you shared the exercise, I think it can give us a lot of freedom to realize: you don't have to be totally original or unique, but really, this is about discovering who you are already right now and embodying that.

Hannah: Absolutely. Yeah, I think really even similar to singing lessons for a very long time, and as a vocal coach, a lot of people come in and like, how do I find my unique voice? We go through that exercise of: who has influenced you? It's okay if you're not just you, but it's a mix of, exactly like you said, all those influences of voices that you've loved. Who have you listened to the most, who have you emulated, whether you knew you were going to be a singer at the time, or just who you sang along with the most as a kid or a teenager, and then, obviously, your makeup and your lips and all of that actually affects your voice and who you are as a human.

Michael: That's awesome. There's something funny about the advice “Be yourself” from a standpoint of it's both extremely true, authenticity is something that is really important, but also: are you ever not yourself? Can you not be you? Even if you're trying to be someone else, you are you, trying to be someone else. Wherever you go, there you are! From the flip side, what we talked about with influences, it is a balance, right? You don't necessarily want to try to be someone else or compare yourself too much or else you lose sight of who you are. So I'm curious, flipping it to the other side of the equation now in terms of really being at peace with who you are. I know that you have a lot of experience and a background in meditation and yoga and our voices in our heads are really good at kinda creating our egos and creating this image, this idea, this impression of something. So I'm also curious around: how can someone get back in touch with themself, that's not necessarily from like a mask that they're trying to portray, but really to come back into themselves and their bodies and who they really are.

HannaH: Yeah. That's an awesome question, cause it does bring up a lot when you started thinking about artist identity and I know just by knowing you and the music you create, you understand this. “Who am I?” “Describe your identity” but then like from a spiritual perspective, a lot of that work is like: Let everything go, let go of your story, let go of all those thoughts in our heads so that we can sit in meditation and find peace, and also hear that still small voice which is where a lot of our inner truths come from. So it's an interesting balance of that. But yeah, how to tap into really getting to know yourself and your core essence is, I think, meditation for me has been huge, and that can look like a lot of different things for a lot of people. Yeah, I have a friend that's, I don't know, one of the most deepest/profound people I know, and he can't sit still, but he does Tai Chi. So he does those forms and that's his meditation. But I think definitely a stillness practice, a silence practice is super important. Music is definitely a form of meditation for sure. When you can get into that space where you're completely inside of the song, whether with a band or by yourself chanting, singing, sound healing, I love using singing bowls. Nature for some people, it's just walking outside and connecting with a tree or just on a path. And of course, some people love to go to church and that's where they find their meditation. But I think some kind of stillness practice/oneness practice. So whether that's stillness, but definitely silence is, I think, very, very important.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah, there's like a bunch of gold nuggets in there. Just like different modalities, different ways to to get to the same thing. One question I would love to hear your perspective on, especially now as we're entering this new year, and for a lot of us, it's a time of reflecting, and also a time of setting goals and creating a vision or a plan and thinking about: who do we want to be? Who do we want to become? I've always found the relationship between our goals and who we are and our state of being really interesting because in a certain sense, when you set a goal you have to become not you in order to achieve the goal. That's the point of the goal as you transform and it's about becoming something different. In order for that to happen the old you has to die first, and sometimes that friction is where the challenge comes from. It’s about you becoming that new version of yourself. Some of the conversations I had around being at peace and being where you are, it's a juxtaposition between having goals that drive you, that kind of create motion and momentum. The book “Think and Grow Rich”, which I'm rereading right now is really all about cultivating the state of desire and the state of using your thoughts to create a motion. So I would love to hear your thoughts on 1) as we're approaching this new year with planning and setting goals and creating a vision, what's a good exercise to get started and start to plan out the next year? And then also I'd be curious in just hearing, how do we balance those two drives: the drive to achieve and become, to transform, with being at peace and being still and accepting how things are now? 

Hannah: Yeah. I feel like we could have a 5 hour conversation about all of that. Pretty sure. Yeah. So the first question is where do we start? If we're just coming into the new year, if we haven't done much visioning work, even if we have done a lot of visioning work, no matter how much you've done, I would always start… you can revisit your vision, but also always recreate from where you are. I can go back and look at my November vision and see so many things, or maybe just a couple that I'm not resonating with, whether life has changed or circumstances have changed or what I long for has changed. So always revisit no matter if you just wrote it 2 months ago. But yeah, the power of, I think, starting with just listing your longings and discontents in life. A lot of this all comes from me doing work as a life coach with Mary Morrissey. I just want to dig up our mentors, which she has studied transformational work exactly like “Think and Grow Rich” is a big book that she talks about. But yeah, starting with those longings and discontents and really making a list. We're here talking about music and you can definitely start with your career or work in the world as a musician. What are your longings and discontents? And then going to that question “what would I love?” after that? And just journaling around that. I suggest and invite you to do that with all quadrants of our lives, because we can easily, and I see this happening a lot with a lot of musicians and my own life, is we can easily just be so focused on music and the music industry, but forget that we have health and wellness, which is important if we want to keep touring or keep writing, and we have money and time freedom, which is obviously connected to all of it, and relationships. So it's easy to be like: okay, I'm going to just be focused on my music career, but oh yeah, I have these kids or this wife or this husband or mother, father, sister, brother. But yeah, that's a really good place to start: longing and discontent. But that's just the place to start, for sure. What would you love to create, and starting from the energy of that as you're starting to write your goals and your vision. I like to write in present tense and also bathe your vision in gratitude. And so once you have all these, maybe, things written out as what you want to create in 2024, then actually write it out. Michael, you talk about this with future gratitudes, right? Starting with “I am so happy and grateful now that…” and then writing visions from that place. But really, just the power of the vision. So whether that might not resonate with you. I have probably too many places that I write visions. I have a life map and then I have my vision, which is more like what we're talking about now in the future. But then those more kind of concrete goals too. But I think really what's most important as that you write it out, cause there's a lot of power in that. So I'm going to pause there and then maybe talk about the balance in case you have anything to say about any of that.

Michael: Yeah, I love this conversation. I feel like this is at the core of achievement and growth and success is goal setting. Regardless of where someone falls on the spiritual spectrum or “woo woo” friendly, I consider myself “woo woo” compliant [both laughing], but it's then scientifically proven: goal setting is extremely powerful as a way to achieve meaningful results and you're much more likely to succeed if you write down and you set goals. I think that there definitely is some powerful creative nature, in place when you'd set an intention, when you set a goal, when you create a plan. I also think that there's a lot of wisdom to the quote that “the act of planning is priceless, but plans are useless”. Yeah, like planning is priceless, but plans are useless. And I think the idea is just like you mentioned: recalibrating. When you recalibrate; when you set your vision, that's the most valuable part of it is getting aligned and setting a goal, setting a vision and getting congruent with that. Whereas if you get too attached to a specific plan or specific way that it needs to look, then that's where it can get a little bit challenging because  our thoughts don't always reflect what's happening around us. Planning is priceless. Plans are useless. Useless is a pretty strong word, but it's a good quote.

HannaH: Exactly. Yeah, no, there's a lot of power there. Like you say, whether we're coming from woo woo or not. Going back to “Think and Grow Rich” where I know we talk a lot about thoughts and everything's created twice: first in the mind and then in form, right? The chair we're sitting on, the microphone you're speaking in, the instruments we play. Just an awareness around how powerful our thoughts are in creating the day-to-day life that we're living, and then even more when we're envisioning our music careers or our life and our goals and actually getting to them. And then that power/that vision is also important, as we're writing it, and I see this too with so if you are a member of Gold Artist Academy or have gone through any artist identity session, Michael does an awesome training on vision map. What can happen and I see this with a lot of artists coming in is doubts and fears come up as we're writing our vision, which is really important and not a bad thing, right, because that's bringing all of those doubts and fears to the surface and all of those thoughts that are within us that might be blocking us from the success that we are seeking. It could just be as simple as, and it's not really usually simple but, some kind of thought process that is like: why do I keep trying to do this thing, and it's not moving forward. Sometimes it's not actually the action, but it's our belief system.

Michael: That's such a good point. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because there's something, I think sometimes people think that they're on the wrong track because when you set goals or you have a vision, then by its very nature, it's going to feel uncomfortable because you're not that person yet. So in your mind, it's like creating this disconnect because it's like: Oh, like I have this goal and I want to be this person, but if I say I'm this person, I'm not actually this person. Can you hear my keyboard right now?

HannaH: I can't.

Michael: Anyways one great analogy for it is if you're playing a note or a chord, then if you imagine that’s sort of who you are right now, or it's the frequency that you're at, and then you imagine like the new version of yourself, this new goal is a higher frequency than when you put those two notes side-by-side, then not going to necessarily resonate, right? Like they might conflict, they might clash, might create some dissonance where it doesn't feel right; it doesn't sound right because again, the old you has to die before the new you can emerge. The point that you brought up, the fact that comes up is actually a good thing. When you set a good goal, as long as it's the right goal and it's something that you truly want and it's truly aligned with the higher version of yourself, then it's totally natural and it's good when fear comes up and doubt, and that's just like the old you wanting to keep you safe. And it's also a compass that's literally pointing you in the direction of: here's those limiting beliefs, here's those things that we need to work on in ourselves that are holding us back from accomplishing the goal.

HannaH: Yeah totally. Yeah. I even think that sometimes when people are joining Gold Artist Academy, they're embarking on a huge adventure that's really going to change them. So looking at that as like a goal, right? Who are we as we enter and whatever that vision is. We are here now on my left hand, and on my right hand is where I want to be with whatever we're trying to create in life. And then in between there's this gap, right? And then on this left hand, as we're crossing this gap, or going through the forest, our paradigms, our patterns, our thoughts… they're just trying to keep us safe, right? They're just like: here, come back where it's really warm and cozy. I'll be here! And then, but then as we go across and we get closer to this goal that keeps happening. That's how I feel it works starting to embark on the Modern Musician adventure or really any goal. So really listening and paying attention to those thoughts as they come up. Not judging them, because it can be really easy to either want to ignore those negative thoughts or those doubts or those fears, but actually just not judging them and say: okay, I hear you and maybe writing them out and oftentimes coming up with some kind of affirmation or saying “that's the opposite of that”, and then anytime that thought comes up or that fear, that doubt thought comes up is just coming up with something that resonates with you, that really lights you up. And just bring that to mind as a way of taping over/rerecording that paradigm or that thought pattern.

Michael: It's so good. Yeah. Great way to start the year to having this conversation talking about letting go of the past limiting beliefs and that's a great, practical way to relate with those. So you described it when they come up, the natural thing might be to resist them or pretend that they're not there and just try not to feel the feelings, but your recommendation would be to what, allow it to come up and maybe this is a good focal point on some of the stillness exercise that you have is to actually write down those limiting beliefs and really do the inner work on those and notice the feeling, allow it to be there, don't resist it, but then to consciously flip it and think about: who do you need to become in order to overcome that limiting belief? Really powerful practice. Do you have any other tips in terms of how people can relate… actually, this is a great good question because in a lot of cases, these negative beliefs or limiting beliefs, we hold on to a version of them ourselves and, it's hard, sometimes, to let those go. I think for a lot of us as well, we've built up relationships and a situation around us for the environment, also, it knows the old you like, and it's comfortable with the old you. The people who know the old, you have learned how to interact with the old you. And so not only does it affect you when you have a goal or you want to transform or become a different version of you, but it has a tendency to make people around you feel uncomfortable as well because it kinda forces them to recalibrate with who you are and to think about themselves. So I'm curious if you have any insights or advice for people as it relates to people who are close to them in their lives, close relationships: how do they align with those existing relationships so they don't have that extra layer of sabotage as they're looking to evolve?

HannaH: Yeah, that's an amazing question. Yeah, that does happen a lot. Yeah, and you don't want to just be like: oh, see you later, family! [both laughing]

Michael: Later, dad, this is the end!

HannaH: To be honest, that does happen depending on the situation. If you're rising above abuse and it's an abusive situation, then sometimes that is the best thing. The first thing that comes to mind is being aware of who you're actually sharing your goals and visions and dreams with, and if they're just a little seed thought, or if they're even seedling. My mom had a teacher that would say: you can move mountains, but just don't tell everybody about it. So really being aware. It might be your significant other, right? It might be your closest family member, but if that person isn't going to be somebody that is going to be supportive of that dream, maybe you don't share it, or maybe really are aware of how much you share your vision. I think that's really important, #1. #2: surrounding yourself, or connecting with a possibly new community that is going to support that and support your new vision or your expanded version of yourself. Those are 2 thoughts that come to mind.

It is you.I don't know how often, but I think I've heard you mention that with your wife, you might say: okay, what are our biggest wins today? Is that right? Do you do that with Jen?

Michael: Yeah, it's been a really important, really powerful habit is doing the reflecting on the wins and we do the top 3 wins from the day, top 3 future wins.

HannaH: Yeah, I love that because, often with your significant other or your roommate or whoever, you might come home and just have a… I can't think of a word that's not a swear right now…. have a session where you're just complaining, right? Just have a complaining session and it's so easy to do that just to release from your day. But I love that. I think that's an awesome practice that you could do with somebody, especially if they're not… Everybody is where they are. I think also accepting whoever that person is that maybe is not going on a different journey, just accepting them as they are. I think sometimes we can be tempted to to move on, to greater pastures, even if it's friends as we're moving into new versions of ourselves, but sometimes those people know the most real version of ourselves and can be really good reminders too of: Hey, is that the real path you want to go on? Or just even seeing them can just remind you of who you really are or where you came from.

Michael: Yeah, it's such a powerful exercise to look at your influences; your environment around you to identify which of these are aligned with who I am and who I want to be and which relationships, and this can be relationships with humans, that's an important one, but also like relationships with just things in your life, it could be with a certain kind of food or your relationship with a bad habit that learning how to let go of those relationships can be challenging, but also really important factors that once you let go of them, it just is like rocket fuel because now that's not, it's not pulling you back anymore.

HannaH: Venues, right? Even where we're performing as musicians. You're saying that even thinking about it, we definitely came to a point with music because a lot of our lyrics are about consciousness and meditation, and we still play in clubs. But we came to a point maybe 5 years ago where it was like: okay, I might be singing about meditation or have a song called “Sacred Cacao”, but everybody's got beers in their hands and they have no idea what I'm talking about [both laughing]. So we got to a point where it was like just, again, reevaluating the vision, at one point it was like: yeah, how do I play in all these clubs, and get those gigs and okay, where is that community that's going to be aligned with meditation and cacao and that can really hear and tune into the lyrics that we're singing? So eve letting go of what might be “what looks like working” that is working and then to go somewhere else that you might not know where it is, right? It's like, what do they say: The enemy of great is good. Like this is fine. This is working. Cool. But what if there is this whole nother community that you can tap into?

Michael: That's super interesting. Yeah, as you were describing that, I was just imagining when you guys perform like out in nature or somewhere, it'd be such a great setting for it. And I think for all of us, an interesting question is: what are the spaces that I want to create for people with my performances? What do I want it to be about? What do I want the vibe and the impact to be when we're together through this community experience of doing the music? It reminded me of one of our clients, I think probably like a year or two ago, Will Taylor, I think his name was. He had a really cool, I think they called it like “music in the woods” or something similar to that, but they had a really cool experience where they did shows and he played violin out in the woods. So it's an interesting expression of what you're describing right now with being conscious of the space that you're creating with your music.

HannaH: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Cause the environment is such… What we're surrounded by when we're creating music just right; a great studio that's built for sound is gonna resonate, or a church, or your shower is gonna sound so good. That environment that you're in. But it also can help, I think, with whatever frequency we're putting out with our music, whether it be rock or metal or chanting.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. To bring it back to this, I feel like this is such a common challenge and pain point that all of us go through when we evolve or when we change is that we might experience conflict or discomfort from our existing relationships. I know that I've certainly had times where I had big goals and I started out with nothing and no proof that this idea/this thing that I had was going to work. I remember one phrase that kept coming up for me again, and it's become like a mantra, and I love this phrase. I think it was James Brown who has the song, “Don't believe me? Just watch.” Bruno Mars also is that then Uptown Funk, but it's just like: don't believe me? Just watch. And gosh, I think there's something really powerful about that idea of who you are speaks louder than the words that you say. So you just make it happen! Be the change that you want to see in the world. It doesn't matter then if someone else believes in you or doesn't believe in you. Really it just comes down to who you are and don't believe me? Just watch. Make it happen. It’s a really powerful mantra.

HannaH: I love that. I love that. That's awesome. Don't believe me? Just watch. Don't believe me? Just watch.

Michael: [singing] Don't believe me. Just watch. Ow! Bam! Bam! Ba doo doo ba doo doo. So good. Oh man, I'll never forget when that song first came out. I remember we were touring. I remember we were loading into the venue one day and that song was blasted and we were all just like grooving and dancing to it as we were loading in. Such a good song.

Hannah: So good. That reminds me that you were also talking about that, cause I always think about this one too. How do we balance like that drive as we are creating that vision of who we want to be with this piece of being in the present moment? I’m often contemplating that as well, especially when you're reaching for big goals that seem, like you say, you're yourself now. Your now self has to die in order to reach those goals. I think a lot of it comes down to the state that you're in, and by that, just like in Modern Musician, when we start a call, we start with gratitude, right? What are you grateful for? This is just a way for us to create this this energetic state of gratitude. It lifts us up, even sometimes we don't feel like doing it. But yeah, creating this energetic state, but similar to when we have a vision, asking ourselves coming to that vision and what are 3 states that I can be that are aligned with my dream? If you're talking about performing, say, at a dream venue that you want to be at. What is that state? And for an example, it could be if I was on that stage, I'd be confident, and I would be fully expressing and I would be shining my light it's brightest. So as opposed to just reaching for that, because then we're always reaching outside of ourselves to this place outside of ourselves is like, how do we embody that today as we're typing on our keyboard; as we're taking care of our children or playing our guitar in the practice room. How can I play this more confidently? How can I shine brighter as I'm playing with my children? How can I actually be that energetic state now? And what really can happen is then we become these magnets where that dream, especially as we keep envisioning it and taking action steps to get there, but then we are like a vibrational match to that vision or that dream that we are talking about or creating or dreaming of.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. That's so powerful. Creating that state; that resonance; that frequency, there definitely is a creative force that attracts us to our state of thinking; our state of feeling; let's just say to our state of being. Really just like the presence so intentionally creating the state that's aligned with this version of you that's aligned with your goals. Super important.

One thing I love about gratitude too, it seems like gratitude is such a powerful state because you can also be grateful for anything. If you're feeling like you're in pain right now, it's counterintuitive, but gosh, if you can be grateful for your pain, what is it…. even just makes me feel emotional thinking about it. It's just: the pain does have a purpose; it's a blessing; it's a gift in certain ways. And when we're resisting it, when we're trying to fight with the way things are, then it just… In this life, we have some trouble, but when you worry, you make it double. So don't worry, be happy. It's true. You can be grateful; you can appreciate the struggles/the pain that you have to go through. You can appreciate it can be hard, but appreciating the suffering and appreciating the darkness really creates this catapult effect. So I just love gratitude and I love the fact that you can never run out of things to be grateful for. Gratitude is just always a way to come back into this moment and to be at peace and to have acceptance, whether that's through some sort of grief process or through just being at joy/being joyful and dancing and having fun.

HannaH: Yeah, that's beautifully said. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said that the pain I think as a lot of times is just… If it's a body pain or it's like a disease, it's like our bodies communicating with us. What is it trying to say? How can we listen and tune into that?

Michael: HannaH, you're awesome. I love the fact that we got to have this conversation at such a good time for it. HannaH, for anyone who's interested in connecting more and going deeper with you and with your music and getting in touch, what would be the best place for them to go to, to connect?

HannaH: Yeah, definitely our website, which is HannaHsfield.com. Actually, our linktree can lead you everywhere to coaching and music and that's just a linktree/HannaHsfield.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah, and on behalf of all of our artists who have had sessions with you and have connected with you: you're awesome. Thank-you for the work that you do. For any of you who are onboarding into our program right now who are going through Gold Artist Academy HannaH is our arts identity leader, and so she's really one of our first initial touch points on where you’re going. When you set goals for the next year and you start thinking about what you want to accomplish/who you want to become, one of the starting points is really crafting your artist's identity and getting to who you are and what kind of message you want to have. If you are in the process where you're like coming into the program right now, you're in for a treat. So that's a great way to be able to connect with the awesomeness that is HannaH as well. Thank-you. All right.

HannaH: I think you are amazing as well. I'm so grateful. I’ll take any chance that I get to connect with you just hang and talk deep. I'm very grateful.

Michael: That was a great conversation. Yeah. It's rare that I get to go to this level of depth with these topics, but it's super, super important. YYEEAAHHH

Hey, it’s Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast then there’s a few ways to help us grow.

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