Michael Walker: If you’re listening to this then you likely already know that being an independent musician is a lonely road. And maybe your friends and your family don’t fully understand why you do what you do, or why you invest so much time, energy, and money achieving your music goals. And especially early on, it can be hard to find people who really understand what you’re trying to accomplish and how to make it happen. So, that’s where Modern Musician comes in!

My name’s Michael Walker and I can understand and relate to that feeling. I’ve been there myself, and so has our team of independent artists. The truth is that basically everything good in my life has been a result of music. It’s the reason I met my wife, my 3 kids, it’s how I met my best friends. And now with Modern Musician, we have seen so many talented artists who started out with a dream, with a passion, without really a fanbase or a business. And you’ll take that and turn it into a sustainable full-time career and be able to impact hundreds, maybe even thousands or millions of fans with your music. We’ve had thousands of messages from artists who told us we’ve helped change their lives forever. It just gets even more exciting and fulfilling when you’re surrounded by a community of other people who get it, and who have shared their knowledge and success with each other openly. So, if you are feeling called into making your music a full-time career and to be able to reach more people with your music, then I want to invite you to join our community so that we can help support your growth and we can help lift you up as you pursue your musical dreams. You’ll be able to interact in a community with other high-level artists, coaches, and industry professionals, as well as be able to participate in our daily live podcast, meet these amazing guests, and get access to completely free training. If you’d like to join our family of artists who truly care about your success, then click on the link in the show notes and sign-up now. 

Adam McInnis: At the end of the day, this is a business, and you have to be able to separate your emotions from the business, because if you emotionally run your business, you'll run it to the ground because that's what emotions do. They put filters on things. They make things confusing, and a lot of times drag things down. So if you use your emotions to run your business, it will fail. But if you can understand how to separate the two, which is what all successful people have been able to do at a high level. Then you're able to use it as fuel rather than fire to make something burn. 

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology, and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

All right! I'm excited to be here today with Adam McInnis. So Adam is a songwriter, producer, and artist who's been featured in blockbuster movies. He's had over 70 million views with his own songs on TV and film. He's been placed on places like VH1, MTV, HBO, ESPN, Fox, Nintendo, Winterfresh, BMW, Netflix, the list goes on. Basically some very well established brands. And he also offers private mentorship with the Billboard 500 club, which is an exclusive online network where Grammy award winners, A&R, sync agents, and platinum artists teach you their secrets for how to make great music and be able to grow your audience and get paid to do what you love. So he's the real deal. He's had a ton of experience in his own career and is now working and mentoring with other artists as well. So I'm really excited to connect with him today to discuss, for you as a musician and in today's day and age, what are some of the biggest opportunities for you to be able to tap into? Things like sync licensing, and just in general how do you find the right community and how do you find the right mentorship for you to be able to actually take your dream of making music and turn it into a reality? Adam, thank-you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Adam McInnis: I appreciate being here. I always think it's good to get out information to people, because I think that's some of the hardest things to find today because there's so much noise in the world that even though there could be a lot of things to read and to discover that might feel like new each time you learn them, there's a nuance to everything when you get to the highest levels, and it's really hard to find true nuance because there's not a lot of people who have been there who are showing how it all works. So there's a lot of information still behind a veil. It's the reason why I like to come forward and pop my head out every once in a while and do some podcasts or do some conversations, is hoping to give some people who are open to it these nuances that they can take and will shorten their careers. So instead of taking 5 years to do something, they might be able to do it in 1 year.

Michael: Absolutely. It's so awesome how many resources we have that are available to us that just didn't used to even be available. I was watching a podcast a couple of days ago with Jeff Bezos and Alex Friedman. And I had a moment where I was just watching it and I was like: man, the fact that I can be a part of a conversation with some of the most influential people in the world, and I can have that kind of access is just an amazing blessing.

Adam: Yeah, and remember not too long ago if you had encyclopedias you were an intelligent family. If someone came and said: I'm gonna sell you an A, then they said I'll sell you a B, and if you bought the whole entire encyclopedia set, your family was someone who wanted to read and wanted to learn more. Everything is in a phone now that has more information than any encyclopedia ever had. So we have this thing where we have so much information, we are in the information age in a sense where it's almost daunting how much you can soak in, but the trick to it also is the fact that you can access it so quickly doesn't mean you remember it and doesn't mean you access it and can apply it. And so that's what happens with knowledge is: you might gain knowledge, but do you gain understanding and do you gain nuance and do you gain the ability to apply it or hold from processes? And I think we're in that space where that's happening a lot.

Michael: That's such a good point. Because of the internet, because of the amount of information, because of the accessibility, now there's so much noise, there's so much stuff that sometimes it can feel overwhelming knowing where to start, how to actually take action. I would love to hear if you have any advice for specifically how to apply this information and knowledge in meaningful ways. Let's say that you do have the ability to attend a podcast like this, or to join a mentorship program and you're learning a lot. What do you see separating people who are actually able to be successful and apply what they're learning versus people who might struggle and might take in a lot of information, but struggle to actually apply it.

Adam: That's a really good question, and I actually have thought about this, and I've talked about this with my friends recently. First of all, our brains are computers, or think of them like computers. They can only take on so much information without cracking. So if your computer gets storage up too much, it'll say: Low on storage. You have to delete things; you have to remove things. So it's really hard to take in a lot of information and doing all of your daily life and everything. If you do too much, you will get a crack. You will get depressed. You will lose steam. The trick is that the losing of steam and sometimes the crack and even the feeling of “I'm not there yet”, that could be a part of just your physiology, and even your neurology. It doesn't mean that you're actually doing something wrong, it's just that your brain is taking in so much information. It's like: wait, but we're not there yet. And also there's the trick of we've been given so much instant gratification that we want things fast. We want everything microwaved, but everyone who's ever had a really good meal in Italy or in Costa Rica or something, they cook their meals. The reason why it tastes that way is because it's cooked. It doesn't just fly out. So we have to have this balance, which is understanding that things that are great, take time. And every person who's ever made it somewhere is going to tell you the same thing: things that are great take time. So that's the first part is: that's a truth. It's not an idea. It's a truth. And there might be some outliers, just like there's people who win the lottery, but it doesn't mean they hold on to it. And there's tons of examples of that throughout the world of people who have won the lottery of millions of dollars and athletes who get 10 million a year, and then 5 years after their career, they can't sustain it. So this is something that we're all aware of. Great things and sustainability take time. Okay? Now the thing about though, taking information is to think of it like a cake. If you want to bake a cake, you put the ingredients in, you put it inside the oven. If you put it in, and then take it out after 5 minutes, and then you put it back in, and you take it out after 5 minutes, and you put it back and you do that, you're not going to rise. If anything, the cake's going to go up and it's going to deflate. And then it's going to go up a little bit more, and then it's going to deflate. And eventually the cake's not going to be tasting that good because it's not fully baked, but if you leave it in somewhere with constant heat, and when I say heat, meaning something that keeps a fire under you, well then you can rise and then it gets those full potential. And then you actually can smell: Oh, I can smell something's going to happen. And you can tell… when I meet someone and I know they're going to do something in their career, but it doesn't have to be just music, just anything, I can tell. It's not an idea. I can smell it. It's like: Oh, this person is rising. Like I can smell it. All the ingredients are there. They're constantly being baked, and eventually they're going to come to a certain point where it just rises. And then when it does, everyone can see it. And so I think that's something that's about, it's about being around consistency because you can lose steam, especially if you don't get a reward system. If you don't get paid a big check in 5 years, you're like: Oh, this is hard. If you don't get on a TV show or if you don't get a record deal or a publishing deal, whatever the goal is, if you don't get those, you can lose steam, but if you're consistent and there's a goal, then eventually you will hit that goal, and that's what I think the best way to approach it is.

Michael: That's fantastic. I love that analogy. I've never heard that one before. The cake you're pulling it out of the oven and putting it back in. What came to mind as you're describing that was a similar analogy that I use a lot that is a similar point: planting a tree or planting a seed. You have to plant the tree and it takes time to nurture and for the fruit to fall and similar to taking the cake out of the oven, if you're digging up the roots of the tree every hour to check on it, then it's not going to nurture. It's not going to grow. There’s so much truth to that.

Adam: Yeah, and to add on what you're saying, let's think of the fruit analogy: if you try to pull a fruit from the tree before it's ripe, it doesn't taste good. So when people are like: I want to get this now, I'm like, you're not ripe yet. So even if you do get pulled, you might actually ruin it now because you're not ready. Wait for the ripeness for this. When it's ripe, it falls off itself. It's ready to go and you know.

Michael: That's awesome. You just took that analogy to the next level. I love that: the right fruit pulling off at the right time. So I guess then the next question would be: how do you differentiate between… because I think all of us know that success takes time and it's a process and it's something that we have to commit to and stick with, but I think that sometimes it can be challenging to know, are we on the right track and if we start doing a strategy and immediately it's not working it can be discouraging or you can wonder, am I actually doing the right thing? Is it going to pay off eventually or should I switch to a different strategy or try something else if this isn't working for me? So I'm curious how you approach testing out strategies like that. And how long do you stick with something with faith that the fruits are going to grow before you try to switch your strategy? 

Adam: Another great question. Something else I've thought about before, so I like this. There are different reasons why people do music. I'll tell you the reasons that I've heard from people, and I think that's the best way to start. Some people feel called to it. Some people have a want to be in front of others. Sometimes it could be an insecurity that they're trying to fill, and sometimes it'd be the fact that they actually want the attention which sometimes might lead back to an insecurity from family life or something like that. They want to be in front of people. Some people actually get fed off of being in front of people. It's almost like an addictive property. That has nothing to do with being called for music. Sometimes they can interact. Sometimes they can be: I feel called and also I feel like I want to be in attention. It all can be connected. Some people just want to make money. They're just like, I just want to make money, and I think music's the best way I can do it cause I like making music. So you've all these different reasons and whatever the reason is for everyone could be completely different. But I've heard a lot of reasons over the years. So first I think it's figuring out why do you do it because when you change “strategy", if you're called to do something, this should be something you're doing for the rest of your life. So it doesn't matter if you make a million dollars this year or $10 this year. If you're called to do this, then you're just trying to become the best version of yourself, so that way you can fully go up to your calling and spread the resonation that you're here to do, if that's what you feel like you're meant for. If you're trying to do it for money, then money's going to be a lot about strategy. It's going to be like: how do I find the right product to create the thing that I need to do to sell to the person cause this is a business. And then how do I create that strategy? If it doesn't work, how do I pivot? So that has different angles you might do to it. If you're doing it for attention that can be tough because if you're not getting the attention you want, then you might create negative attention just to get something. So I've seen that happen with some people where they're like: I'm not getting the attention I want so I’ll do something very shocking just to create attention, and then they get on the shock train where they have to keep doing shocking things. So there's a lot of different ways of pivoting strategies. I can tell you this of what I've seen people get the most success and when I say success, I want to define that word for me, cause it's gonna be different for everyone. Everyone's version of success is completely different. For me, the version of success is: you get to live out what you feel called to do, you get to experience a life where you can be financially stable for not just yourself, but for the next generation, you're able to provide for your children and hopefully your children's children enough. To me, that's success. Generational building of wealth to me is success. And even if you don't have it all in one day, but you can see it over your lifetime, you can create that, I believe that’s success. Having the freedom to say no is success because when someone goes: I have a project you can be like I don't want it right now. To have the freedom to say no when you don't want to is success. To have friends and people around you that are inspiring to you that circle you. To look at other people that you resonate with and they're connected to you because of your unique gifts and you are inspired by them, I think is success. So those would be some of the things I put on the table, right? It could be different for everyone. The people I've seen get success tend to feel like music is their calling. They tend to be like: I don't care what I do, eventually I'm going to get there. I don't know what it's going to be. And so this thing of pivoting sometimes happens on what we call accidents, but also it could be part of their path. And it's because they keep hacking away at something, keep hacking away, and they just say, no matter what, I'm going to wake up again tomorrow and try again. That's when I tend to notice that things break. And when I say break, they break into that next step of that person's career. Because I've heard the craziest stories over the years of someone like: I was just in the studio one night and no one really thought I was the most talented, but they had the track open and I started to rap/sing on it and the producer was like: Oh, that's cool. Throw on some auto tune. And next thing you know, that song became a hit. But that person that they said who no one thought was so talented was there every single day in the studio. They were putting in the consistency, they're putting in the hours, they're putting themselves in the right vicinity of other people who were inspiring. They were doing these things. There was an artist I worked with years ago who was a pop singer and she just had that feeling and was like: I'm going to be an artist, I'm going to be an artist and her pop music was good. Not great, but it was good. Over the years she realized she's actually a rock singer and now she's a grammy award nominated artist and her voice is amazing and she found that part of herself that really made her stand out and become unique and distinct in a world where there's so much noise. So I think a large part of it is consistency, it's about believing in yourself fully, realizing why you do it. I do think it's important because whenever you get stuck, you gotta know why you do it. And understanding that, if we're talking about industry, is that at the end of the day, this is a business, and you have to be able to separate your emotions from the business, because if you emotionally run your business, you'll run it to the ground because that's what emotions do. They put filters on things, they make things confusing, and a lot of times drag things down. So if you use your emotions to run your business, it will fail. But if you can understand how to separate the two, which is what all successful people have been able to do at a high level. Then you're able to use it as fuel rather than fire to make something burn. 

Michael: Holy cow. So much gold in what you just shared.

Adam: Thanks.

Michael: I think right now at the time of recording this, it's a new year, right? It's 2024. And for a lot of us, this would represent the time where we can reflect on this past year that we're about to say goodbye, and there's this new year and there's a fresh start and it comes with a lot of vision work and setting goals and looking at the next year. I'm curious, for anyone who's listening to this right now who… I personally feel inspired with what you just shared in terms of defining success and like you mentioned, it's different for all of us, but I think all of us have these core needs as humans that do connect us, and a lot of us can resonate with what we just shared. So I'd be curious what you'd recommend for anyone here right now who is looking at the next year and they're in this phase where they want to set some goals and some targets. Let's imagine that they're the type of artists that, they do feel this calling and they're willing to stick with it and they have the right mindset. How do you recommend they start to set goals and project over the next year so that they can define success for themselves and stay on track to actually be able to hit their goals?

Adam: Okay. Once again, great question. So this is good because what I'm going to say has to be done with nuance, like what I'm about to say, but if you can master it, it can last the rest of your life and you can create amazing things in this lifetime. So what I say is this: you have to dream so big that it sounds crazy. You have to be crazy in order to expand the boundaries of anything, but you have to know when you're crazy also holds you back, which is a very fine line. It gets interesting when you start, especially, rising up the ranks because the craziness is what people are attracted to. They're like: oh my God, he thinks so crazy outside the box. But then also people are like, yo, that person's crazy, right? [Michael laughs] So it's a fine line. So you as a person have to be okay with either a) people calling you crazy, so be fine with it, but also because it takes an emotionally strong person to be okay with other people calling you crazy. You've probably seen in places where someone goes: you're crazy. The person flips out: “I can't believe you’d call me crazy”, right? You have to be really emotionally sound to go: If someone calls you crazy, you're like: yeah, a little bit. But it takes crazy to build what I'm trying to build, right? This is a trick. This has to be mastered at a nuanced level. If you look at someone like Jim Carrey, he's a great example of someone who's always said: I've dreamed bigger than I ever thought I could before I've gotten my dreams and it's a little crazy. And people said he's a little crazy and that's because of what he's able to do. There's a lot of people that you can find like that who've lived an eccentric, almost crazy mindset, but they're able to achieve things. The reason for that is they're creating a resonance and that resonance is a boundless or limitless possibilities. If you live with limit, you're attracting limit at all times. If you create limitless, then you're attracting limitless. That limitless feeling is a little crazy because it's not bridled. It's not constructed. It's not a box that you can understand. So you actually have to start to feel that. And that is the first part of this. So you have to dream bigger than you've ever dreamed before and realize that you might not hit all of your dreams, but you set up goals that you can, and that's the difference. A lot of people, especially in today's age, they have the idea of: I'll just manifest it. I'll just manifest it because of the book The Secret and how things started to become, I would say, more branded and in a box. A lot of times when somebody becomes Americanized, it's branded and put into a box. Take yoga, which is a spiritual practice, then it's branded and put in a box, and now we have the clothing that matches it, and all the studios, and everyone says Namaste and no one's ever actually been to India. It's like branded and it's put in a box. So the same thing happens with manifestation and the power of belief in your mind. The thing that I would recommend to anyone is: dream really big, dream crazy, and then sit down and write out actual goals because that's the other step that a lot of people are not taught clearly. You have to write tangible, relatable goals that you're willing to be crazy enough about to get to the dream. I think for anyone who's sitting down, I would say, for this year, think of something that is a little bit out of your reach when you write it down. Not so crazy, for instance, if you just started singing, don't be like: I'm gonna get a record deal at the end of the year. Because that most likely won't happen, and then you'll feel down if you don't get it. But if you're just starting singing, you're like: by the end of the year, I want to be able to perform this song that I know is super hard, and I want to perform it confidently in front of a stage of 100 people. And you know that feels a little scary, and it's a little crazy. Great, great dream. Now write out the goals to get there. Okay. I'm gonna get vocal lessons. I'm going to practice once a week. I'm going to go to karaoke. Do the things that you feel like would get you there. For someone who might be a producer or songwriter and you've already done some songs and you’re thinking: Hey, I'm ready to go into the big leagues. I'm ready to work with publishers and admin companies and record deals and major artists, major tours. Okay, great. Write that down. I want to have this amount of placements per year. Just so you all know, I do this every year and every year my dreams get bigger and every year I usually accomplish like 85% of my dreams. So I know if I dream bigger and I get 85% next year, I'm still in a good place. So that's what I would do is write up really big goals and then write out consistency. And the reason why the consistency is so important is you have to build, within yourself, a program of conviction. It's gotta be conviction because if it's just “I hope”, hope is where so many people fall. I've met a lot of people who are in their fifties and sixties who've hoped for things, but they never actually put the consistency behind it and they regret it. Hope leads to regret unless you give ways of actually approaching something.

Michael: Man! Yeah that's so good. What comes to mind is when you mentioned, hoping for something and conviction and like really going all in and making it happen, there's just such a energetic shift between those two states of someone who's made a decision or it's like I'm going to make this happen no matter what, and I might have to fall and I might look stupid and I might figure it out, it might take time, but I'm going to make it happen no matter what versus someone who has kind of one foot in not totally sure they want something. You can just tell when there's an actual decision that someone made and they're willing to do it. And that seems extremely important. I love the point that you made around setting big goals too; setting audacious goals. You heard this reflected and a lot of the most successful and greatest people who've changed the world is: You have some form of what Steve Jobs, in his famous speech, where he talked about the square pegs and the round holes and how the people who really change the world, it's not the people who are just normal, it's not the people who are just living the easy life or doing the same things. It's the people who are thinking different. It's the people who are pushing the boundaries; pushing the edges. And it also seems, counterintuitively sometimes, there's less competition from people who are actually going for those big goals.

Adam: There you go!

Michael: If you have to climb up to the top of the tree, there's actually a bunch more fruit there because everyone's trying to just reach up and grab the low hanging fruit.

Adam: That's exactly what it is.

Michael: Yeah. Fantastic. Having the ability to set clear, actually tangible targets and goals and have a practice that allows you to measure and keep track of where you're moving towards so you know if you're moving in the right direction on the compass.

Adam: Can I add one thing to what you were saying too? I think another part of what it does is when you don't have a clear vision and when you're hoping, there's so much, and I call it noise, there's so much going on in this life that things can pull you in different directions. Oh, I'm on Instagram for oh, it's been two hours. Oh, I'm on YouTube. Oh, it's been two hours. Oh, I'm on Netflix. What show is on? 3 hours. When it pulls your attention… so you know how they say the eyes are the windows to the soul? Okay. Your eyes are basically connected with where you're putting your attention. So that's why someone says: hey, pay attention to this, and your eyes have to go to it. When they say pay attention, you're actually paying a fee. You're paying it with your life time, which is the highest commodity that you have. It's not the money you make, it's your life time. So wherever your eyes go, you're paying someone with your life time. So if you're sitting down and you're not looking at your dream, if you're not paying attention to your dream, you're paying attention to someone else's. You're giving them your commodity. So if you're sitting down and you're watching Instagram for 2 hours, you just paid a whole bunch of people. You've paid the other people you're following, you're paying Instagram, you're paying all of them your attention, but if they're not giving you value back that you can use towards your dream, then you've just been bought and sold on something. Now if you're not really focused towards that dream, what happens is calculate the amount of life time that you're spending in someone else's dream. You're talking about, what 5 hours a day sometimes, people we will spend ion the internet or on different things. Even let's say 3 hours. Okay, cool. That's 15 hours a week. If you do 7 days, that's 21 hours you spent in someone else's dream. By the end of the month, you have what, 84 hours. 84 hours a month on someone else's dream? Let's say that every hour of your dream is worth $100. You're spending that much money on someone else's dream? You multiply it by 5 years. You're in debt to other people's dreams in hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's what I mean about focusing on yours, and once you align with that, you'll feel yourself. You're like: Oh, I was on Instagram for too long today. I need to go back to my dream. YouTubed too much today. Go back to my dream because you get pulled back to the alignment, especially when it's written down and you can see it. I would tell everyone, keep it by somewhere that you look a lot. If you have a studio desk, put it on a vision board behind your studio desk. Something that you have to see so that way you can always be pulled back to that alignment because it has to be through your eyes. If you don't see it, you're not paying attention to it.

Michael: That's super smart. Yeah, I know that some of the most successful producers that I've met, there's one of our earliest producers who, when we first met him, he was just getting started and he went on to become a multi-platinum producer and songwriter. I remember that specifically about him is that in a studio, he had all these cues, like these written statements and motivating things just around the studio that was awesome. He had just set up his space to nurture those seeds that he had planted. I don't think that's a coincidence that he was able to achieve that success because he set up those cues like you're mentioning.

One topic that I would love to hear your perspective on as it relates to what we're describing right now around your time and your life and how that's this precious asset and the most valuable thing that you have that you can spend. One thing that seems like it can be a trap nowadays, because we do have the access; we have so much information; we can spend a lot of time digging and watching a lot of content. I think sometimes the trap is that we feel like we want to do everything ourselves and figure it out in the DIY mindset. If you find a mentor, you find someone that has spent the 10,000 hours doing something, then you can take something that would have taken you 10 years to figure out and you can rub shoulders with them and you can learn how to do it, in 1 or 2 years. I'd love to hear your thoughts and perspective around the value of mentorship and, specifically, what you look for when you have a goal and you have a vision and you're looking for guidance or mentorship. What are some of the best practices to be able to make a decision and to get the most value out of that?

Adam: Okay. So let's first break down what I think real mentorship is; so the difference between a trainer, a coach, and a mentor. It's important that people are aware of the differences because if you, let's say, go to a training; let's say you're trying to work out. Let's imagine that we're trying to bodybuild. I want to be competing in the bodybuild stage at the end of the year. If I go to a trainer and I pay the money, the trainer is going to show up and the trainer is going to tell me what to do, and if I'm late, they're going to say: Hey, you're going to be on time, but they're not going to cut me as a client if they don't have tons of hierarchy. Even if I show up late every time, they're just gonna keep telling me: Hey, you got to show up on time. And I'll be like: I'll come next time. I'll come late again, I'll come late again, I'll come late again, cause I'm paying them. A coach, a lot of times, is different because a coach is paid for by an establishment. So a coach, if you're not showing up on time, they can just leave. They can be like: listen, you're not here on time. Don't come back. You're not ready for this, which is an interesting dynamic? When you have an Olympic coach, if you are late enough times, you get kicked off the Olympics. So you lost your dream. You can't just pay to get back on it. I actually think coaching has a really strong effect when someone is paid not by the client, because then the client or the person has to grow. Mentorship is completely different from both of those. Mentorship is a mixture. So that's the reason why it's important to note which one’s which. Mentors should be people who have already done the thing that you want to do and nothing less. If someone hasn't actually done the thing that you want to do, they can only tell you ideas that most likely would work in theory. That is not that they work in practice and on practice that can be repeated over many times and they can show results over themselves for a sustainable amount of years. Not just 1 year, 5 years; 10 years. That's a mentor. That's someone who's already done it, who has other friends around them. They all do it because they're in that circle. So it's very important to have the difference because: what I see in this public sphere, and it's important to note because I've been behind the scenes as a producer/songwriter, this is how I make a living, this is what I do, I'm signed to Concord music publishing, I work on very big projects. I came forward to start to mentor people because I saw there was a crack in the music industry. Most people don't know how the music industry works, but they say they're a musician and that they're a producer and they're a songwriter. And I was seeing this on social media: I'd go on someone's page and they'd say, singer, songwriter, producer, which means you, by default, are in the music business, but then when I'd work with them, they didn't know anything about the music business. And so I started to pull more away from helping undiscovered talent because I realized there's so many people who think they're in the business, but they haven't studied the business, they're studying music, which are two different things. There's music, and then there's the music business and they come together. You have to know both. You can't know 1 side and not know the other and find any level of success in this career for a sustainable amount of time, and if you just know music and you allow other people to know the business, they will take control and take advantage of your music. So moving into when I think of really great mentors, once again, it's someone who's already done the thing that you exactly want to do, they've done it for at least 5-10 years so it's been sustainable, and they also have a circle of friends who also do that same thing, and they can prove it by actually showing you the checks. If they can't show you a check, then to me, it's just a bunch of just fugazi. It's just talk. It's so important that someone can show you a check or they can show you an email thread; they can show you the interactions that become behind because in today's marketplace, it's so easy for people to filter things and to make it look like they have the presence of authority, and so someone's I want to learn from this person and they learn from that person. They realize when they get to the end of the learning there's still more to learn. And you go: yeah, because even that person didn't do the thing that they've been saying they do. Mentorship: you will learn more from a mentor who can guide you through something and who actually cares where the coach at the highest level doesn't care. If you ruin the game, they'll kick you out. So if you show up drunk a couple of times, they're like: listen, you gotta go. I care about you, but I don't care enough about you to stop the game. A mentor who cares about you will actually pull you inside and be like: tell me what's going on. Let's sit down. Let's work through this thing. Cause you're really talented and you're ruining yourself right now. Do you need help? A mentor will be like: I've seen people fail and I've seen people succeed enough to know that you can come back from this, because anyone who's also done it has a friend who was an addict; who has a friend who had mental health issues, who had a friend who was in jail. I have mentors who are huge entrepreneurs and their stories are incredible. I have a friend, Andre Norman, he was in jail, then he went and got a Harvard degree. There's people that you meet over time that you realize: you can come from anything and a mentor who's been through it knows you can get through it. That's different. That's a different thing. So I would say finding people, once again, who've done it, who can prove it, who can show you the checks, who can walk you through it, who care. Now, all that being said, it's really important that if you're a mentee, that it's going to feel awkward when someone is trying to show you things, because a lot of times when someone's showing you things, they're showing it to you because they know it. So if they know something, it’s less wiggle room for you to say I want to do this, that, and the other, and they're going to be like, you can, but here's what works. So that's a different thing, because I'll run into artists who: you could have everyone who knows what they're doing tell them exactly how it works, but they've never been told how it works. So in their minds, it's like: I want to do this, and I think that might happen, and someone's like: it doesn't work like that. It just doesn't work like that. We wish it did, but it doesn't. You have to be able to know your contracts and you have to know this thing, and this is where you're gonna get ripped off here. So it's not just about doing 10 songs a year, you gotta write 50 songs a year. And they're like: 50 songs a year? Yeah. Every producer and songwriter does a minimum 50 songs a year. And in their minds, I don't want to work that hard and the mentor is but you have to, if you want the goal that you say. So I think it's a mixture where a trainer is just going to be like: yeah, keep coming; keep showing up. They're not going to tell you a realistic value and say: you have to to get there. They're going to say: keep going. There's a difference. Find people who are going to tell you: these are things that you have to do if you want the goal you say you want. Does that make sense in the nuance?

Michael: Yeah that totally makes sense. I've never heard it kinda broken down like that before with the trainer and the coach and the mentor and differences between them. So I think it's a really interesting angle to break up. A couple of things that come to mind as I think about coaches and mentors and trainers; I have a personal trainer I started working out with about a year and a half ago, and it's been one of the best investments that I've made just in terms of: there's accountability, it actually gets me to show up and I pay him, but it's super valuable. The trainer is super valuable and I think with coaches, you hear about like some of the best coaches of all time, like John Wooden, and they aren't necessarily people who are like the best players of all time, but sometimes there's a special ability, or someone can be an amazing coach without necessarily being the person who's doing the thing.

Adam: Mike Tyson strength was a custom motto. That guy doesn't look like he'd be someone who's knocking people out, but he trained Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson's coach.

Michael: Yeah. So there is an ability, and also sometimes you have people who are extremely successful at doing it themselves but they don't know or they don't really have a skillset around teaching it or sharing it with other people. So I do think there is a lot of value, if you're looking for a coach or you're looking for a mentor, you look at both who they are and we can learn from them in their community, but also the community and the people that they've coached before as an important decision point around finding a mentor. I love the points that you brought up around the differences between a coach and mentor because there is a difference between when someone is leading by example, and they live and breathe and they do the thing, then you use this word a few times of nuance. It does seem like there are those things that are so nuanced that just by living in the culture and being surrounded by people, mentors who are doing the thing, it's incredibly valuable. So there probably is a place for all three of those types of leaders or people in our lives that can help us, but it's interesting hearing what their differences are.

Adam: That's why I said a mentor can be a mixture of some of them. It's there, but there are differences because, let's say: if you built your business to be a $10 million business and you say, I want a mentor, you want someone who's built it to be $100 million business. You don't want someone who's only built a $500,000 business, because that wouldn't make sense. You'd be like: you can tell me different things that maybe I didn't know”, but I want a mentor who's built it because I'll tell you this: as your business grows bigger, you have different things to worry about because I have different tax brackets and I have a different amount of employees. How do you hold the resonation with 25 employees versus two? As these things change, the interactions all differ and the people who only know those nuances are people who've done it.

Michael: Yeah. That's powerful. Yeah. I'd love to hear your perspective on… I feel like I come back to this analogy a lot or this example, because it's true. Miley Cyrus [singing] there's always gotta be another mountain. There is this blossoming that happens with growth and with personal transformation and success where when we have goals and we arrive at the goals, then there's always gonna be another goal and it can lead to a life where we might achieve amazing material things, but we also might not be fully happy or fulfilled.

Adam: Yeah

Michael: I'd love to hear your perspective on finding that balance because I feel like you have a really good answer to this: just like finding that balance where you can be happy and fulfilled and at peace and living in your truth of who you are, while at the same time having goals and having desires and this discontentment that might come from that wanting, and looking to grow.

Adam: Yeah. The first part of it is: we have been programmed to have this extreme want for things. This is part of a program. There wasn't the same need for this growth 50 years ago. We weren't like: Oh, I need to do this, and after I do that, I need to do that. That wasn't around. But now on your phone, you got motivational quotes on Instagram and people are showing you business things. It's part of the marketplace because also people sell courses and there's “quick fixes” to this. And you want 10 side hustles and it's become like this hustle mindset. I would say that there's a lot of proponents of it, people like Gary Vee came out and then shark tank, and you started to see this movement towards people who are working on business and pushing self development. Then all of a sudden it blew up with life coaches. People are life coaches now. And so everything was like push push push towards optimization of the human experience. In all that pushing though, we've all seen the highest level now of depression, highest levels of anxiety, highest levels of people feeling like they're separate from communities. Yes, we've seen these things, but a lot of it's part of our program. So what I want to do is take a step back from the program, and look at how we actually are already wired, because I think that's more important. Our evolutionary design is perfect. We just like to play with it at different times of history and depending on the technology at hand that's going to just enhance even more with AI, we're going to see more playing with it. Doesn't mean it's always for the best of the evolutionary experience. So one thing is: there's a difference between happiness in jolts for almost like addictive properties, where someone's like: oh, you just got to be happy. It's yeah, happiness needs to be defined then, because there's words that are sometimes used that people haven't defined. So let's break this down. People will say, I love this, and I'm like, do you love it? And they're like, yeah, I love that. I love this shirt. I love this store. I love this song. You love it. Yes. Define love. And they get quiet. And I said: before you define it, say the definition without saying, “I feel”, “I think”, or “to me”. Tell me what the definition of love is. Most people have a different definition, which means everyone's living a different experience through their perspective of something that they love. And love is the most passionate word that we have. So if everyone's doing different versions of love, but not anyone having the same definition, there's obviously going to be a lot of confusion in the space and confusion in your mind. Whatever the definition is of love that you'll find, I guarantee you, sacrifice is going to be embedded in that. So if you would not sacrifice for this, you don't really love it. So you don't love this shirt, because you wouldn't sacrifice for it. You don't love this. You might like it a lot. And the reason why I said there's a nuance in the definitions is because some people might say: Oh, it's just the way we talk. Yeah, but your words aren't embedded with your actions and your thoughts and what you say, even if you don't think it is wired in you somewhere and you will get almost a release of chemicals based on what you say. So the more that you can define these words, actually, you have more energy towards the words that are really aligned with you. So when you say, “I love that” your body reacts like: you're right, I would sacrifice for this. And when you say “I like that” your body reacts and goes, you're right, I do. I like it a lot. That's an internal thing that we have to start with. Now that brings the part of happiness. Some people say, we just got to be happy. That's not true. Happiness is a by-product of when you do things that are aligned with being, not just true to yourself, but being connected with a goal that's actually in harmony with what you're doing. The reason why I say that is because some people can go for happiness and they actually destroy themselves because they're looking for happy quick fixes. If you're not happy, do this. If you're not happy, do that. And they're constantly jumping from the happy leapfrog game. Happy, happy, happy, happy. And next thing, I look back after 20 years and actually depressed. This happens all the time because they're actually not thinking a couple steps forward and being like: wait a second, am I actually doing something in harmony? Harmony creates happiness that's long-term. If you want to create harmony within yourself, and we're talking about career, I always say: make sure you love making music because you get lost in it. That's the first part. It should be where you make music and you forget about time. You're like: oh my god, 4 or 5 hours went by. You're able to get. That's your way of going to a flow state. If your way of going to flow state, which means you become a channel, a true resonation of yourself into source, that's what you do when you go to flow state. For some people it's cooking. For some people it's mathematics. For some people it's science. That's where they go into flow state and they just get invigorated. If music takes you in a flow state, you're going to find happiness, but if you're trying to build that happiness into a reward system, that's financial, those are two different things. So you can't expect them to be the same thing, because if you internally think they are, there can be a crack there. You're like: I'm getting all this fulfillment, but I'm not being fulfilled financially. There must be something wrong. So what I always say for balance is: create harmony in your life by having other things that create that wonderment. So for me, it's jiu jitsu. I do Brazilian jiu jitsu. For me, it's constant learning. It's a way of growth. It puts me in the moment. For some people it's surfing. For some people it's painting. But find things outside of music that create that flow state for you so that way you're able to get reward systems from things that you don't care about making financial gain from. So you're able to say, I do this for fun, and I also do this because I love it. And I'm hoping that one day this thing will make me money. And what happens is as you start to balance more things that put you into a flow state, overall happiness occurs. The better you communicate with yourself, means the better you communicate with others. More happiness. So what I tend to notice is the more harmonizing you are with yourself, the more you resonate that outwards. and the more that also attracts things that you want, because who wants to work with an artist or a producer that is in constant destruction mode? But if you resonate with that harmony, other people see it and usually more opportunities come to that big dream we were talking about before, and starts to become almost like a magnet. That's what I would just suggest like balancing things like your health, balancing your mind, your body. We were talking about the new year and so when I do my new year resolutions, it's broken down into body, mind, spirit, business. They're broken down into different categories. And how do I create harmony and things where I felt like there was, I would say, dissonance. Where did I find dissonance last year in my body? Where did I find dissonance last year in my business? Where did I find dissonance because dissonance leads to destruction; leads to disease. Wherever I find those things, how do I find resonance and then create harmony, and then write those as my New Year's resolutions.

Michael: So good. Yeah. I love that way of framing it around looking at where is their dissonance and seeing those as opportunities for…. [side tracked] Oh, hi, I'm not green anymore.

Adam: Oh, you worked for a second!

Michael: Yeah, it does seem like there's something in our nature that, as it relates to music, if we're playing a dissonant note or dissonant chord, then there's something inside of us that yearns for a resolution. There's that movement, and using that as a practice look within and trying to spotlight on: where are those places of dissonance as a way to guide you towards where you can set some goals and create harmony seems like a really powerful practice and a good model for how to set goals that they actually create life and fulfillment in us. Love that.

Michael: All right. Before we wrap up, I would love to open the floor for anyone that's here live. This is one of my favorite conversations in a while, Adam. And I'd love to hear from you guys who are here live. If you have any questions that you'd like to ask Adam or myself, then you can right click on your icon and you can raise your hand to come on here live, or if you'd like to put them in the chat, then I'm happy to also bring you on through the chat as well.

Adam: I realized we didn't do anything on music business. [both laughing] The conversation was so good. That's great, man.

Michael: Well, I think that what we talked about was probably much more important, because this is like the source; the vision and the mindset and goal setting that leads to those other business related things. I'm glad that we took the conversation where it went.

Chad, so let's bring you on live so we can have you ask your question. All right. Chad. What's up, man? How are you doing?

Chad: I'm good. How are you guys? Good to see you. Thanks, Adam. Thanks for taking the time, man. Just so many nuggets here. As we dive into it, I love all the nuggets that you've given today, and the ones you laughed at the end saying: Hey, we never got into the music biz. So my question is about that because I took Chris SD’s course on sync and licensing, learning how to do it ourselves, met actually Chris through Michael loved it. These days, I feel that the sync agent is going to be really clutch for me and I've put out 6 records, certainly quality and syncable songs, but that I feel there's definitely a barrier. I've got Disco all set up and everything. I've done it right, but finding a sync agent that can take the time. That's my big barrier that I'd love your advice on.

Adam: All right. So do you mind if I ask you a few questions to help?

Chad: No, not at all!

Adam: Okay, great. When you say: I have some songs that are quality, how many songs would you say that could fit on a sync now would you have in your catalog that are ready to go if someone listened to them, they go: Oh it's a pin drop, meaning it's able to go right into.

Chad: Probably 40.

Adam: Okay. Awesome. How many companies have you reached out to, let's say, through just email and setting up an email chain of bring them to attention?

Chad: Yeah, so not nearly enough. I think that's the barrier is: I guess I want to be, and I guess the music can speak for itself, but not be brushed off. And I've probably about 10-20, and just don't hear back.

Adam: You've written to about 10 or 20?

Chad: Probably about 10 more likely.

Adam: Okay. All right. And are these companies that take open submissions?

Chad: Some do, some have not. I just have done it.

Adam: Okay, this is good. This helps me out. How many take open submissions?

Chad: Probably about 4 of them.

Adam: Okay. So let's say 4 companies that take open submissions because the other ones aren't legally allowed to open those emails and even pay attention to them.

Chad: Okay.

Adam: The reason why when things are unsolicited, if, let's say, they opened your email and then 2 years later a song came out from that company and it sounded like the song that you had submitted, then you could say through a chain of emails: Hey, I sent them this and then that song is now on that big movie and that shows that they could have had a way of listening to it and putting it out, which you can have a lawsuit for. So a lot of the companies in general, this comes with record labels and publishing companies, don't take unsolicited music for that reason. So the ones that do who say they're open to submissions, if you've only written to 4, I would say, try to at least write for the next couple weeks, let's say, write 1 a day. So for the end of the couple of weeks, you'll have 20 people you've written to who take open submissions. Now that's just 1 part of the game. I'll add to it. The second part I would say is: do you personally know or have you met anyone who is a sync agent that works at a major company?

Chad: No, I haven't. I think that's it. The gatekeepers. Just through Chris SD, we were meeting a lot like Gary Calomar and Dondra Eira who's out of the biz now, we were put right in front of really major greats. But in terms of the sync agents no I have not.

Adam: Okay. So sync agents and A&R at sync companies are going to be your best friends when it comes to this. So what I would do if I was in your shoes is try to find songs that… go look at their catalogs, go to their websites, look at the catalogs, look at the kinds of songs and the quality of songs that they adhere to. So certain companies all do songs that sound like radio today, and other companies have jazz and classical and all this other stuff. So go to the companies with the kind of music that you do, find the people who are the A&R, find the people who are the assistant A&R, even the creative directors, find their names, and then try to link up with them on Instagram, Facebook, see if they have a public profile. Also, if they accept submissions, send submissions with just maybe 3 songs that are similar to the sound and quality, but if you have something that also sounds unique to their catalog. So let me give you an example. I'm not saying do this, I'm saying if this happened, it would work: If I went to a certain sync company and I noticed they do a lot of anthemic pop records, anthemic hip-hop and all this other stuff. And I'd be like, okay, I see what they're doing. It's radio sounding, big soundtrack stuff. I might send them something that is anthemic and epic, but not be hip hop and not be this. It might be reggaeton. It might be a Latin influence, but have these really cool drops. It might be an EDM thing but it still sounds like it could be an epic on a commercial, and I would actually be making that music or playing it with a commercial in the background while I'm sizing it up, so that I know, as a listener, this looks amazing. So when I send it to them, it's opening a door of: I've studied your catalog, I know what you all do, and I'm adding something that I think could be valuable for you. Now, that might be different because everyone has different styles of music, but that example allows you to stand out like you're unique to something that they would want to sign. Because there's so many people who've been trying to go into sync over the last 3 years since the pandemic, and the industry has gotten really oversaturated with a lot of people who sound very similar. So what's happening on the back-end, and it's important this nuance that's behind the veil, a lot of agencies aren't trying to sign more artists because they're just stacking their catalogs with more things that sound like the other things. If they want to stack their catalog, they want to create catalogs that are unique and it can be spread around and have lots of variabilities, but still have the sonic quality of sounding like it's on the radio and sounding like a soundtrack album. So that's the main thing. If you have music like that. It sounds high quality. It sounds unique. It's competitive with radio. Then make those connections, I think, it's a lot easier. And usually I'll be honest, like with everyone I've menteed who does this, once it starts happening, they start getting requests. Like they get briefs all the time. They get in that cycle. The problem that happens is it's really hard for people to stay competitive because once they start getting a lot of briefs, they don't have big enough catalogs, because a lot of people are so new to this that they might only have… you have 40 songs, so you're in a different space, but some people have 15 songs, and when you start getting a lot of briefs and next thing, you're 6 months into it, you still have to make more music. So you have to be on that way of doing songs within 48 hours, finished to really feel confident to deliver briefs because they do come fast. It's like: on a Monday, we need this by Wednesday, 5 pm, no later. So either you have a catalog or you have to make it within 48 hours. It has to sound like it's radio ready. The last thing I'll say to you as the last piece of advice, is working with other writers and producers who are already working with sync companies is the easiest way to do this. So if you're not around a community that people already have placements, I would highly recommend doing that because if you're great at what you do and you have a bunch of songs, if you collaborate with other people, they're going to walk the songs right into the company for you, and it's going to create that relationship when they sign the split sheets and they say who's all on this song? They'll say your name. And then if they start seeing a bunch of songs are coming from you, they're going to go: what are you doing on your own? Come with us! And that's usually how it happens.

Chad: That's great, man. Really, thanks for everything, man. And I'll definitely be in touch with you and thanks for all your nuggets today. It's amazing.

Adam: Appreciate it, man. You have a good time on tour, brother.

Chad: Yeah, man. Peace.

Adam: Peace.

Michael: Awesome. Shout out to Chad. Great question. Thanks for coming on here live and asking your question. So let's go and let's wrap up for today. Adam, thank-you again for taking the time to be on the podcast today. I really appreciated the conversation around mindset. It's really the core of purpose and vision and what we're doing here, as well as, we're able to tie it off really nicely at the end with some pure business sync licensing strategy stuff. For anyone who's here, who's listening to this right now that's interested in diving deeper or learning more about Billboard500 and the sync licensing offerings that you provide, could you share how they can dive deeper to connect more?

Adam: Sure. So the Billboard500 club, it's like a spin on the movie 300 where if you have 300 people that are really strong and valiant, you can, in theory, take down the biggest army in the world. And so with independent artists, I believe independent artists are the next wave of the music industry because the gatekeepers of record labels are going to change as more power is in the fan's hands to pick music that they like. So as more people aren't buying the records from record labels, they're going to be like: Oh, I like this artist. And I like that artist. And I found them on Spotify. The mainstream record label approach is going to change drastically over the next 10 years. My goal is to help at least 500 people become strong in their artistry and industry like valiant. They can do the music they love, they understand how the business works, and more importantly, they can work together. Because what a record label provides is knowledge, income, creative services, promotion, branding, marketing, but with the power of AI and the power of people coming up soon, I think individuals together can do literally what a label does in theory, but on a small scale and then constantly build it. So in the BillBoard500 club, we have over 30 mentors who come in and all the mentors are either Grammy award winning, #1 songwriters or producers, they're either entertainment lawyers from major artists. Everyone has to be on the billboard charts and they have to be there currently. So all the people that you're meeting inside the Billboard500 club who are mentors are currently doing the thing that they're showing you. The other part of the Billboard500 club is the network. There's over 135 people currently right now from all around the world. So we have people in Germany, Costa Rica, Peru, Canada, Vietnam, and London. It's all over the place. What's really cool is people are able to work with friends and it's all doing songs online. So every 2 weeks they're recording songs, they're writing songs, they're building their catalogs, and we have a really in-depth study of music. I will say this, the one thing that I love about the club, we have something called the Golden Ear Gym. The Golden Ear Gym is the highest nuance level of learning how hit records from every different genre is made. It's so nuanced that when you get out of the gym, you feel like “I put on muscle mass”. My ear now knows what to do in different situations. So all this put together creates a very unique ability for someone, no matter where you are in the world, to get high-level nuanced information from people who are doing it, build a network of executives that you can pitch songs to and actually build real relations with, build a network of friends and peers that you can grow with, that you can trust and have a real community, and then build your song catalog to something that you're not paying out thousands of dollars to producers because they're all producing it together. So you can be in the club and I know some people who've written 50 songs in a year and the year prior to the club, they had 2. So you can really change your career in a very short period of time. So if anyone wants to look into it, it's called TheBillboard500.com. If you can share with your audience, that would be great. It's a monthly membership, just like a gym, so you can cancel anytime. But we've seen tremendous amounts of growth from people in a very short period of time. And that's the reason why we like doing what we do.

Michael: Amazing! I'm super interested in myself and learning more and joining the club. So I'm probably going to be checking that out and maybe I'll be a member of the Billboard500 club.

Adam: Awesome, man. Love to have you.

Michael: Awesome. Hey, let's do a virtual round of applause for Adam for coming on here live! Lots of people who are saying: this is awesome. Thank-you so much, Adam. 

Adam: Good!

Michael: And yeah, we'll go ahead and we'll wrap up the podcast for today.

YEEAAHH!

Hey, it’s Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast then there’s a few ways to help us grow.

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