Nomad: Something I say, one of my little famous axioms is: whether you do or you don't, time is still going to go by. Time's going by, whether you do or you don't. If you do those pushups and sit-ups and eat right, great. Time's going to go by. If you don't, time's still going to go by. You're either going to get leaner and a little healthier or a little heavier and a little less healthy. Time's going to go by. It doesn't matter. Time stops for no one. So whether you practice, if you feel like you're the type of musician, you're like, okay, I really need to practice more. I need to just get better at my craft, but then, for some reason, life gets in the way and you don't get in the hours that you wanted to, you can't beat yourself up about it because you can never get those hours back. But you just have to look in the moment and be like: okay, today I'm slammed. I'm sure everybody has these to-do lists on their phone. Oh my gosh, I have 17 items today on my to-do list. Okay. Is practicing one of them? It better be. If you feel compelled that's what you need to do, then it better be.

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology, and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Nomad is a veteran composer, music producer, music director, and session touring guitarist with over 30 years of experience in the music business. He shared the stage with some artists you've probably heard of Stevie Wonder, Natalie Cole, Jewel, Carrie Underwood. [sarcastically] You know, just totally, no one's ever heard of those artists. That was a horrible joke, but he's also worked in the studio with artists like Justin Bieber, Celine Dion, Aretha Franklin, Sting, just to name a few. So now he's really taken his experience and he's been able to pay it forward by creating something called the Career Musician Podcast. They have over 140 episodes and they have a mission to empower musicians around the globe with strategies to build a sustainable career. So obviously a ton of alignment with our values and our mission here at Modern Musician as well. Really excited to connect with him today and really hear from, both his experience as a musician himself and working with other artists as a community and really, what are some of the biggest opportunities and insights for artists who are looking to get started and build a successful career. So Nomad, thank-you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Nomad: And hey, thank-you for having me excited to join the discussion.

Michael Walker: Absolutely. Maybe to kick things off, could you share just a little bit about your story in terms of how you were able to collaborate with artists like Aretha Franklin and about how you created the Career Musician?

Nomad: Right. Yeah, absolutely. The old saying, the old axiom: six degrees of separation, it really is true,and sometimes it's less than six degrees. So if you've never heard of that, if you just type it in a web search six degrees of separation, it'll explain it. Basically it's saying that every relationship you have, everybody is connected to somebody else and chances are, if you look up to somebody, you have a connection to them, even though it might be six degrees after the fact or outside of that microcosm. So it really is who you know, but also, who knows you. And I'll start there with the Aretha Franklin sessions. That's how that started. So I was the music director and guitarist for Kenny Babyface Edmonds for 12 years. As I always say, like he wrote the 90’s. He's a very big producer and songwriter in the 90’s who wrote for everybody from TLC, Boyz II Men, Whitney Houston, Madonna, John Mellencamp. The list goes on. So I was with him and that came about by a recommendation from a musician friend who said: Hey, they're having auditions. I'll put you in touch if you want to go. And I did. So I got that gig and then he happened to be producing; Babyface happened to be producing Aretha's album. And he said: Hey, I like your guitar playing so much. Why don't you just, go ahead and play on Aretha's album. So that's how that happened. So my point is, you never know. There's a guy named Greg Phillinganes who's a very, very prominent musician in our industry. Very famous within our industry, right? He's not a household name like Michael Jackson, but he played on all the Michael Jackson recordings. He just finished up the tour last year with John Mayer. He was the music director for that. But Greg Phillinganes has done everything that you can imagine. And he has a saying, I've worked with him quite a bit with David Foster. Again, another connection. You just never know who. He has a saying and it's really simple! He goes: you never know. He would always be like: you never know, Nomad. He would call me for a gig or I'm not available or he's not available. And he goes: you never know. Like he just always leaned into that. And I can't stress that enough because you have to play on the level of your playing field. So if thus far, you've only been a bedroom producer and music maker in the sense that: Hey, I'm an artist or a producer, composer, what have you, but I haven't gone beyond the realm of my own microcosm, then you're not going to be able to get up to where I'm talking about that level [snaps] like that. You can't jump from here to there. It's a process. It's an evolution. So don't think just because I started the story there that I started there in real life because I didn't. [laughs] It's a process. It's an evolution as Michael and I'm sure many of you listening and watching know. How I started the career musicians? I knew I wanted to be a professional musician at a very young age. By the time I was 12, I saw Eddie Van Halen on MTV that did it for me. And then at that point I was like: I really like this so much (guitar is my primary) how can I turn it into a living? And my folks were very supportive, got me lessons, and they put me in a performing arts high school and that really helped. So again it's very helpful if you have support from somewhere, however, I know that not everybody is fortunate enough to have that. So if you don't have support from your family or your friends, then you got to seek it somewhere. You got to find communities. And that's exactly what Michael's providing, and that's what I'm providing. There are communities out there that can help you through this muck and mire of the industry. Cause boy, the music industry is crazy as we know, and it can be hard to navigate. I'm trying to fix my (there you go) my shadow. So yeah, it's just a process. Anyway, I knew I wanted to turn it into a career so I did. That performing arts high school really helped. Did a bunch of gigs, cut my teeth doing gigs with them, and then I just started doing gigs. I didn't look back in the sense that: I took a giant leap of faith. I never worried about money. First of all, money was never my motivation, right? And so anything you do, “Oh, I'm going to be an engineer and I want to make X amount of dollars”. You probably don't think that. You just say: I just want to be an engineer, and then you pick your area of study within the engineering scope, right? I want to learn quantum physics. I want to study rocket engineering, jet propulsion. I want to do that. I want to be an engineer for building things like bridges and whatnot; an architectural engineer. So you pick that lane and you go all in, but you don't say: because I want to be rich. You really don't add that suffix to the end of that statement. So don't do it for music. Make sure that your intentions are pure and know your: why; Why you want to do it. And that's what I did. And I just didn't worry about money. And the less I worried about money, the more I was okay. It's a tricky thing. It's a very interesting dichotomy. And I know Michael, you know all about this as well. But it's between your brain and your heart. It's a balancing act, but once you get there and you just start, it's like riding a bike, you get the hang of it. And that was it, three decades later, I built a career and then the pandemic hit and I said: now's the time to really hunker down and get this podcast going. So we have just about 170 episodes now, I think. Almost. I interviewed all the elite musicians in the game who are my colleagues and say: hey, let me pick your brain. Tell us about how you did it. Give us some of the red flags, or the pitfalls that you experienced so maybe that we can help others avoid them and whatnot. And it's just a great resource. It's streaming on all platforms. It's totally free. And that was that. After that, I realized, geez. Cause I always loved teaching. I used to teach guitar when I was really young and I just had a natural propensity for it. I just love teaching. And then I realized, well, I do love teaching, right? So let me teach music, but not let me teach music in a theory sense or a “how to play” sense or how to produce a track. Let me teach music in a business career sense: how to have a music career. And it was around 2010 that I came up with the term, the Career Guitarist. And I wrote a little ebook and I sold it online and at little webinars or little seminars that I did and clinics. And then shortly thereafter, I said: nah, it needs to be broader, the Career Musician, and that was around 2010/11. And then I just leaned in, like I said. Little by little I started developing the podcast and then 2019. I really leaned into it in 2020 when the pandemic hit, that was at full force. So now it's a full education platform. We have a course that teaches you how to really record from home like a pro. And it's not the typical recording course where it's like: this is an EQ. This is a compressor. This is how you… No, it's not that. It's like: Hey, this is how I've been doing it for 30 years at home, and it's really foolproof. I don't go into crazy, crazy technical explanations from an engineer standpoint, from an audio engineering standpoint. I teach more from a practical musician standpoint. So that course is really meant to help you level up your home recordings so that way they just sound super pristine, broadcast quality. And then now we have a new radio show called Radio Ready. It's airing on dash radio and I'm going on and on. Wow. [both laughing] And basically Radio Ready talks about: Hey, is your music radio ready? Go ahead and submit it to us and we'll check it out. We'll vette it. And if it is, I'll interview you on Dash Radio on the show. So anyway, just all kinds of different things that support our journey as musicians. And I know it could be lonely, and I know there's some people out there who have felt that pain of not having that community, so that's why I'm really a big proponent of that.That was a lot. [both laughing]

Michael: It was a lot, but it was really good stuff. Thank-you for sharing. There's a bunch of gold nuggets in there. One thing that really stuck out to me was that idea you brought up with the 6 degrees of separation and how true that is. We did our third year of our mastermind group and we did it in Hawaii this past year, and it was an amazing experience. We were there for a week with some of our platinum artists and our team. One exercise that we did there that relates specifically to this 6 degrees of separation that really blew my mind and helped me understand the power of that on a different level was Russell Brunson came up with this idea of the dream 100. The idea is basically you come up with a list of 100 of your dream collaborations or your dream contacts. The people you'd love to… I don't know if you're an artist, maybe it's Coldplay, or maybe it's some of your favorite artists of all time. And it could be brands as well. If there's just like a brand you absolutely love and you live and breathe, maybe it's like a Martin guitar, but you just make a list of 100 of those contacts, and then the idea with the dream 100 is that you make it a strategy to reach out to those people and to deliver gifts and do things that are cool for them to try to connect with them. So the way that Russell described is that that's how he made his connection with some of his biggest collaborators now, like Tony Robbins, was through his dream 100 exercise. Surprisingly, I'd never really done a true dream 100 for a Modern Musician up to that point, it just happened organically, but we did an exercise in that room with 20 of us and we just all wrote down a dream 100. But one thing that we did that was unique was we used a shared notion document where we could basically all link with people and when we're going through the list, if we knew the person that someone else had put on their dream 100, we added a little checkbox to it that says: Hey, I have an existing connection with this person. I know who they are and I have a way to contact them. And going through that exercise and looking at all of those contacts, there's a bunch of people on there that I didn't even remember the fact… I wouldn't have thought about them in terms of: I have a direct connection with them, but I did, and I'd be happy to make the connection with them and some of our top artists where I know it's like a win-win. What is a great reminder that even for all of us, I think that you probably have existing connections that maybe you just aren't even thinking of that you do know someone who knows someone, or you have a connection to someone that, as long as you were able to craft the right opportunity or like the right message where it's not just me me me me me, but it's you're able to do something, provide value, then gosh, such a powerful reminder and a concept. So thank-you for sharing that and your story about how using that principle, you were able to connect with some of these amazing artists like Aretha Franklin.

Nomad: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's interesting because oftentimes we tell ourselves we play on autoplay and internal dialogue, right? That's just human nature, and oftentimes that internal dialogue is so negative and we tell ourselves what we can't do rather than what we can do, or what we're capable of doing or what's a potential possibility, right? So it really is about reprogramming. I don't care whether you're listening to Anthony Hopkins on Instagram or TikTok deliver this kind of message, famous actor, or you're listening to Oprah or you're talking to Michael Walker on Modern Musician, or myself, the message is the same. We're all human. We all have the same components and we all have equal potential. And it's just a matter of reprogramming that internal dialogue.

Michael: Absolutely. Yeah. I think that’s some of the most powerful work that we can do is that internal work around our mindset and our beliefs and our goals and our vision. I'd love to hear from your perspective, what gets in the way of that? What are some of the biggest mistakes or challenges, specifically related to mindset, that you see preventing artists from building a successful career?

Nomad: Great question. I always wanted to be Eddie Van Halen or Steve Vai, or when John Mayer came along, I wanted to be John Mayer. I was like: Whoa, I love these guys. This is what I want. That's the model. That's what I want to achieve. But you gotta keep that within a pragmatic framework. You can't let that get out of control. So when you say, “I want to be”, that's a dangerous statement. “I want to be like”, even that's a dangerous statement. You have to reframe that and say: I would love to do my art of making music in the realm of these other artists; like they have done. I would like to trailblaze my own message through my music. So you really have to be careful about how you word those phrases because what happens is that's a slippery slope and guess where it ends. The slope ends right here at comparison. And then what happens with comparison? It's the thief of all joy. And really it's the thief of all productivity, because once you get to comparing yourself… I saw John Mayer. Yeah, he's good, but I can play better than that. That song is cool, but I wrote a song that's just as good. Whoa whoa, wait a minute. What are you doing? You're setting yourself up for this danger zone. It's like: man, don't do that. So that's number one I would say. Don't compare. Yes, it's cool to have people whom you look up to, but, without getting too philosophical or religious idolatry, you got to watch it. American Idol. Sure. You look up to them like: oh, that's cool. They don't make them a real idol. Don't make anyone a real idol because then it's dangerous.
Michael: What's the quote: if you meet the Buddha in the road, kill him. [both laughing] It sounds pretty violent, but it's a great principle. Yeah. It's just don't believe in anything so strongly that you are blinded to the truth because the fact is everything is contextual and no concept is always true all the time. It's really just a map. We have our map, a way to navigate, but it's not the actual territory.

Nomad: That's right. There's nothing perpetually perfect or sound or logical. There's always going to be bumps in the road with anything. I'll give you an example. Back in the 80’s, 90’s, even early 2000’s, clearly social media wasn't around and there was a lot more mystique with artists. So whether it was your favorite artists like Prince, Prince hardly ever did interviews, right? Or your favorite guitarist, for me, Steve Vai, he did a lot in the guitar publications; a lot of transcripts and teaching in the guitar magazines, but he didn't do a lot of interviews where you could actually see and hear. Nowadays, everybody's on social media. You'll see Prince clips on social media that people dug up. These little tiny nuggets they found: oh, this was a cool thing with Prince. So now you're here, and you're like, oh wow! First of all, I didn't even know what Prince sounded like when he spoke, but now I do. I know what he sings like, but not what he sounds like when he speaks. Same thing with Steve. Steve is on social media now 24/7 and it's like: okay, Steve, thanks man. Got it. And it's so funny because the 16 year old me and the adult 50 year old me is: okay, cool Steve. Got the message. Love what you do. I just don't need it anymore. At 16, I would have freaked out to hear Steve Vai talking about his process and his workflow and why he created this and all that. But now as my own creator with my own identity and entity that I have grown into and embraced, I just don't need to hear it from other people as much. Just look within. It's all here. It's all here. The answers are all here. And I know that sounds so cliche, but only experience teaches you that.

Michael: I think that it's really profound and it's a valuable lesson to remember that who you are is something that is unique, and that you're not going to experience your full potential or full success, unless you're actually embracing your uniqueness and who you are. I think it can be really valuable to model and learn and have references and whatnot. So I'd love to hear you talk about: where do you find that balance between being original and being unique and doing something different while also being able to learn from people who have spent their 10,000 hours and even things like the amazing resources that you offer around music production. You can learn so much from other people and save so much time and energy by being able to learn while, at the same time, you need to find yourself and that's what's unique that you do. So I'd love to hear you talk about that kinda contrast.

Nomad: Okay. Repeat the first part of the question. I just want to make sure I'm accurate.

Michael: Yeah. Basically the question is: how do you best leverage references and influences while doing something that is unique to yourself?

Nomad: Thank-you. That I knew it was there but it was like, wait a minute. Cause I had it and then it disappeared. Cause I was looking at the screen here, just making sure my technical stuff was on point. Okay. Yes. R&D (research and development). I've been doing that for years. Before the interwebs was a thing, I have stacks and stacks of three ring binder books (or whatever holders, three ring binders. Yeah. Three ring binders) of magazine articles, book clippings, newspaper articles, handwritten music, transcriptions, transcripts of an interview. Stacks of these three ring binders filled with, as you said, models, people, which I would like to model after, concepts, and ideas, and research, and development. That's why it's called R&D. Any huge company (any company, really) whether it's any company in general, it's research and development. Part of the research is the metrics, the testing, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't work. The development is taking your raw idea and cultivating it and turning it into something that's really useful for your audience, for your tribe, your people, your community. Research and development. That's always been my thing. So I would say: okay, I love the way Steve Vai does all of this unique compositional work within his guitar playing. And then I also love the little novelty sounds and stuff he does. But then I also love the way Andre Segovia plays classical compositions from Torega and Soar and all these other great guitaristic composers from back in the day. I also love the way Wes Montgomery takes a melody of a classic American jazz tune and embellishes it to make it his own. And he uses his thumb to get this beautiful, rich, lush tone. I also love the way, what's his name… The saxophone player… Michael Brecker plays these crazy lines that just go on. They're like a run on sentence. The line will go on for 16 bars without a break. So these were all the musical references and things that I was taking, and you become an alchemist. It's an amalgam of all these different things and you put it together in your crazy scientist/musician lab. Right here [points to his head]. We all have one. This is our crazy scientist musician lab. We all have one right here. It's in your own cranium.

Michael: He's pointing at his brain, by the way, for anyone who might be listening to this.

Nomad: At my brain, yeah. If you're just listening on audio. Yeah. In our cranium, that's our little lab and we get to go nuts and do it. Research and development. So again, it's not idolizing, it's modeling and you made that distinction, and then it's researching and developing and cultivating. And if you don't want to be that stringent with the terminology you don't have to be. Just call it experimentation; call it messing around; call it jamming. I don't care what you call it. But do it and do it on a regular basis. That's number one, and that's part of what I call the career musician ethos which is really what I teach and that's based on a book that I wrote and it's the whole premise on which I operate.

Michael: Fantastic. I love that: the way you just articulate it. You're really curating your influences intentionally and doing research and development and just figuring out: what is it that you resonate with and that you enjoy. Cause if you enjoy something from another artist, then likely, there's a reason for that. And that's part of who you are and you get little clues to yourself through that process. Doug Kazzam is here in the live community right now. He said: Michael Becker played on my first single. He heard the song once and brilliantly played appropriate parts and was gone in 15 minutes. Yeah, absolutely. It's pretty amazing what a trained musician can do.

Nomad: There you go.

Michael: So one thing I would love to do is open up the floor for folks who are here in our live audience right now with the Modern Musician community. If you have any questions you'd like to ask Nomad, if you raise your hand, you can right click on your icon in our discord community, and we're gonna invite you to speak and you can actually come on here live to ask your questions. So I see Kasper Clark has raised their hands, so let's bring you on here live. Hello!

Kasper: Hi.

Michael: How are you doing?

Kasper: Can you hear me?

Michael: We've got you. What's the question we can help you with?

Kasper: Oh, I just wanted to ask when your mindset is slipping, because I queued into the podcast right as you guys were talking about getting into your own head about idols and such. I was thinking about: when you see your mindset slipping like that, what is your first plan of action? Some people meditate, some people go for a jog, some people do jumping jacks, whatever it is. I just wanted some suggestions.

Michael: Awesome!

Nomad: Man, you answered your own question. You beat me to it. I go for a long walk or a jog immediately. Anytime I start to feel funky or I get in my own brain and I'm just this negative dialogue, I just go out. I have three dogs; a little one that's a little older and two younger ones that are bigger and I love taking them for walks and it's just like: wow, okay, we'll go for two to three miles and that whole time, maybe I'll listen to a podcast or maybe I won't listen to anything I'll just self talk. And really as I'm going up hills and walking and climbing and doing all that, or just running, whatever it is, all of a sudden your brain just starts to throw away all the extra garbage. It really is amazing how motion; the act of moving is great.

Michael: Absolutely. I want to press the plus one now. I saw an amazing study where they were reading the brain scans of people before and after they went for a walk and they did a test to basically see how well their brain was functioning before and after. And you could see the brain scans that were lit up before and after, and just going for a 5-minute walk lit up and activated like 56% more of their brain. There's a bunch of mood benefits as well. I think the first thing that really woke up my own awareness to the power of walking and running and exercise was a book called The Spark. That book went into a lot of the science behind exactly what you're describing, Nomad, about the mood benefits and just the overall wellness that comes from taking a short walk. So I couldn't recommend that more highly as well to just go for a 5-minute walk in between meetings throughout the day. If you can just take a break and just go for a breather, grab some water. It makes a huge impact.

Nomad: That's right.

Kasper: Just to get the blood flowing and change the mindset.

Michael: Absolutely.

Nomad: That's it, man. You got it. And like you said, you're working hard every day. [gets up] Oh, hold on. Let me let my dog out of the room. [Michael laughing] Go ahead, sir.

Nomad: I deliver packages.

Michael: Fantastic. Hey, man, thank-you for coming on here live to ask that question. That's a good one.

Nomad: You're working hard every day, and it's like sometimes we get so stuck in that mode of working hard. And if he's delivering a package, maybe he's walking and jogging a lot throughout the day. So maybe for him, that's the last thing he wants to do when he gets home. So maybe it's a meditative thing. Not to sound corny, but maybe it's soaking your feet or soaking in a tub or a jacuzzi. Or maybe it's just literally meditating, just sitting still for 5 minutes, or if you can't get through 5 minutes, start with 30 seconds and start with a minute, or reading or cooking. That's another one. I love cooking! 5 o'clock comes, I remind myself: stop working in the studio, go out in the kitchen, cook up some yummy dinner for my wife and daughter. That's very cathartic.

Michael: Awesome

Nomad: Lots of distractions.

Michael: Yeah. I think it's a great question and it's definitely possible to be successful from a material sense, but to be very unhappy and anxious and stressed out. So I think that this stuff is incredibly valuable from a life perspective too. And I think that it also is gonna make you more productive and help you accomplish more with less stress. So yeah, meditating, some form of stretching or yoga, a healthy diet, healthy movement. These are things that we all know are important, so we just got to do them. Accountability for it.

Nomad: Right. And by the way, because I'm Cuban/Italian and I'm a New Yorker, I love food. I try to eat healthy, but I sometimes indulge in some of my favorite decadent food does the trick.

Michael: One of my mentors was a guy, Evan Pagan, and he totally changed my life as it relates to food because I think that before I learned from him, I always thought that there was a disconnect between: if I ate healthy, that it came at the sacrifice of me enjoying food. It was a challenge for me to overcome because I also love food. I think all of us love food. Of course we do. It's one of the great things about being alive and being human. We love food.

Nomad: Exactly.

Michael: I think I always saw it as all of the best foods; all the most delicious foods are all sobad for me. Like, why is that? What the heck? Why did my body do that? It doesn't make any sense. But one thing that you helped me realize, it's like a Venn diagram where on one hand, one circle is you have foods that are delicious, some of the best tasting foods, but are terrible for you. And then on the other hand, you have the other circles. You have foods that are extremely healthy for you, but they taste awful, or you really don't like them like, I don't know, kale. There is a cross section in the middle where if you put those together, there is a cross section of foods that are both incredibly healthy for you and incredibly delicious. It's subjective since people have different tastes, but for sure, like all of us can find that overlap of foods that are absolutely delicious and are extremely good for us. For me, blueberries are just phenomenal. They're so delicious and they're extremely healthy. There's certain kinds of yogurt that are awesome. I have a green shake that I drink every morning that just blends together a bunch of stuff that doesn't sound good. It doesn't look like it would be good, but when you mix together the fruit with it, it's fantastic. Our kids love drinking it. I think that it is one of those things where if we can find the things that overlap, that are both delicious, we don't have to sacrifice, and are extremely healthy, it's a win-win. The other thing I wanted to share from Evan Pagan… This is just an Evan Pagan shout out, is he has this model of looking at the short-term and the long-term effect. And I think that you would appreciate this Nomad just based on, you seem like someone that really has a great mindset and it's really at the core of your success and what you teach. But he teaches around this short-term, medium-term, long-term mindset. One example of it is with food, but it's also relates to things like exercise or really anything that all of us know we should be doing, because this is a really important thing for 20 years from now, but it can be hard to be motivated to do it now because it's: okay, I have to wait 20 years to see the benefit.

Nomad: That's right.

Michael: So the way that he broke it up was into these 3 different timeframes and scoring it on a scale of 1-10. So like the immediate-term and the medium-term being like a few hours later and then the long-term +10 years. And so specifically as it relates to food, if you're rating, let's say French fries, then the immediate score would be like 10/10 because you put it in your mouth and it's crunchy and salty and just tastes amazing. It's just awesome. So 10/10. The medium terms, a few hours later, is 2-3/10 cause generally you feel your stomach feels a little bit bloated, your energy kind of mental fog is unclear, your mood usually is not great. Then the long-term effect is like 1/10 because we start to feel lethargic and we're not able to be as productive and we might gain weight and so that's like French fries. Whereas blueberries, for example, or bananas, the immediate short-term effect depends on the person, but for me… blueberries is not the best example, cause they’re a 10/10 for me. Let's say broccoli. I think a lot of people aren't huge fans of broccoli. I've acquired a taste for it, but I would say, right now, it's probably like a 7-8/10. If I'm just eating like broccoli, especially if it's raw broccoli. So immediate, like 7/10 medium term. So a few hours later, 10/10 cause I just feel alert, and I feel in a good mood and focused and long-term, 10/10, because you're more productive, you accomplish more, you're more focused, you have a better mood. There's something about that framework of just looking at those from those different timeframes. And the most powerful one for me has been the medium-term, a few hours later. That's the one that if I can really connect with it, it's short enough term where I know when I work out, I know that it's good for me long-term, but really like why I'm doing it is because I can feel better throughout the day and feeling better a few hours later. I feel like a lot of people have spoken to that idea of focusing on the little bit shorter-term things to actually connect with it, whereas if you try to focus on the long-term benefits, it's hard to connect with it because it just seems like it's so far away. A different part of our brain actually lights up because we're thinking about ourselves as if we're like someone else because it's so far down the line, versus, if you think about it from like how I'm going to feel in a few hours from now. I just talked for a long time there. [laughing] 

Nomad: No, that's great. Sorry, I was texting my daughter to tell her to take care of the dogs cause they were going berserk. I like that. And actually I love that barometer that he developed or whatever/whomever. I'm sure that's been around. Great concept. And I think you can apply it to music and what we do. I know that if I'm getting ready for a gig, and the gig is my gig: Nomad’s performing, then I have to prepare my vocals, I have to prepare my songs playing wise/guitar wise, I have to prepare the arrangements, if I'm using any playback tracks, or if I'm using a band, I have to rehearse and prepare charts. That's a lot of work. And in the beginning, that first short-term is lie: Ooh, I don't want to do all that. That's a 1; that falls at 1 on the scale. It's like: yikes, really? I have to do all that. That's like days of work. But then if you do the rehearsal, if you write the charts, if you do the preparation, shortly thereafter, a few hours later, or the next day, you feel like: Ooh, I'm glad I did that.

Michael: Yeah

Nomad: Now I feel confident. And then later you do the gig and you're like: Whoa! So after you did it, maybe it's a 6-7. And then when you do the gig, it's a 10! If you have a bunch of those and they pile up, compounded over time, we know the amazing effects of compound interest, and that applies to (how would you say) anything in life. You do that over and over again, it's a 10/10. And by the time 10 years go by, you're going to have a string of so many good performances, and what's going to happen from that? You're going to get more work. You're going to get more calls. You're going to be sought after even more. You're going to have a bigger fan base, a bigger following, a bigger community because word is going to get out. “Have you seen that Nomad show? Oh my God. That was amazing.” Word spreads. And if you're consistent, now you're really building something. Versus if you say: meh, I got this. I've been doing this for 5 years now. I'm kinda on autopilot. And then you go do the gig and it's: eh, the gig was like a 3. So in the beginning when you're on that scale, that barometer we talked about, in the beginning, it's a 10. It's eh. I don't need to do it, 10. I feel good. Fine. Yeah, whatever. I didn't do any work. Yay. 10. But then when you do the gig and it comes out, you're like: oh, that was awful. I made so many mistakes. And then people were like: “yeah, I saw Nomad last year and it was great. This year I saw him and it wasn't so great. They just didn't sound good.” I think you can apply it to anything, right?

Michael: Yeah, that's really interesting. I never thought about it from that perspective, but it's very true. The thing that it reminds me of the study that they did. I don't know if anyone who's here live has heard of this study, but I think it was called the marshmallow test. They had a bunch of kids, very young, sit in a room and they were offered a marshmallow and they could either eat the marshmallow immediately, or if they waited/if they resisted temptation, the person was going to leave and they'd come back and they'd get 2 marshmallows instead of 1 marshmallow and it made for a very entertaining video because you get to see the kids struggling to avoid looking at the marshmallow. [both laughing] Some of them take the marshmallows, some of them don't. But was really fascinating was they followed up with these kids and they found, in the future, a very strong correlation between the kids who were able to delay gratification and they waited for the 2 marshmallows to come back versus eating the marshmallow immediately. I think a lot of it comes down to what you just described about having that mindset of: how am I going to feel a few hours from now? And finding the right balance there so that you want to enjoy being present, being where you are, because here we are and here we always are, and if you don't enjoy this, then you might live your whole life trying to be somewhere else. The comparisonitis. So it’s incredibly important to be present and to appreciate what we have now, while at the same time, we're evolving and we can point our compass in the direction we want to go and it can make our lives a lot better in the future by setting goals. So it does seem like finding that balance is one of life's greatest challenges and opportunities. 

Nomad: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's so much to be said there. The other thing is we have to enjoy it. It's so interesting. Something I say; one of my little famous axioms is: whether you do or you don't, time is still going to go by. Time's going by, whether you do or you don't. If you do those push-ups and sit-ups and eat right, great. Time's going to go by. If you don't, time's still going to go by! You're either going to get leaner and a little healthier or a little heavier and a little less healthy. Time's going to go by. It doesn't matter. Time stops for no one! So whether you practice… If you feel like you're the type of musician, you're like, okay, I really need to practice more. I need to just get better at my craft, but for some reason, life gets in the way and you don't get in the hours that you wanted to, you can't beat yourself up about it because you can never get those hours back, but you just have to look in the moment and be like: okay, today I'm slammed. I have a list. I'm sure everybody has these to-do lists on their phone. Oh my gosh, I have 17 items today on my to-do list. Okay. Is practicing 1 of them? It better be! If you feel compelled that's what you need to do, then it better be. Is marketing 1 of them for your songs to get placements in playlists and more streams that it better be on that list and you better do it, but don't worry about what's going to happen tomorrow. “Oh, I'll never get that amount of stuff done. I'll never get on that playlist. I'll never get that gig. I'll never….” Okay. You know what? Tell yourself that over and you just might be right. It'll never happen. Or: stop the chatter and get to work. Start doing it right now. What am I gonna #1: practice. #2: marketing #3: reach out to all the playlist curators.” Bing. Done! That might have taken 3 hours. And in the beginning, it felt like a 1. You're like: Oh shit, I got to do this stuff? But then after you do it, you're like: wow, this is a 4-5. And then when those playlists people reach out to you and people comment on how well you're performing and all these other things, then you're at a 10. You're like: Whoa! Phil Knight said it best, right? Just do it.

Michael: Nike too, right? Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah, that's so good. It reminds me of, I think it was Henry Ford, or at least he was attributed to it, I don't know if it was actually him who said, whether you think you can or you can't, you're right.

Nomad: You're right. That's it. And Phil Knight is the founder of Nike, and that's how he came up with that.

Michael: Ah! There you go.

Nomad: So again, all these little maxims and little sayings and proverb types, cliches, they are cliche, but they're cliche for a reason because they stick. People have been saying them for centuries because it's true. It's just, it's tough.

Michael: It absolutely can be. And I really appreciate this conversation because I feel like for a lot of us, this is one of the most critical issues, just getting on our own way and having a discipline and mindset just to show up and keep doing the things. One little tip that has helped me a lot as well as it relates to getting started and getting momentum, because it does seem like at the beginning, especially the short-term, it can be like a1/10 sometimes, or it's man, this is so much work. And it's: Oh my gosh, it's overwhelming. It's daunting to get started. This principle of just taking off the tiniest bit that you can possibly chew. So if you're meditating, if it's literally like 30-seconds or 1 minute or 5 minutes. Just the tiniest amount that you can do and doing it and starting there, man, there's something so powerful about just taking that first step. Cause when you take that first step, it gets easier and you build momentum. You're moving in the right direction. So that's been a really powerful principle to just biting off the tiniest amount that you could possibly chew and getting started with that, and that's probably going to lead you in the right direction.

Nomad: That's right. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Michael: [jokingly] All at once. Swallow it cobra style. [both laughing] Trick question.

Nomad: I love it. I love it. I love it. The thing is with meditating, I tried to do it for so long. I got the app Calm and I had some other apps. Sometimes I get it and I'd feel okay. And then other times it's just man, this sucks because as I'm sitting here supposed to be meditating, my mind is going 9 million miles/hour, thinking about all the shit that I have to do for the rest of the day. I'm like: that's counterproductive. So then I got the iwatch and it has a little: Hey, reminder, take a breath, stand-up. That's my form of meditation. If you're sitting here and it says: Oh, reminder! And you just go [inhales deeply]. 1 big breath. That's it. And you're like, okay, if you want to do another one, great. But if you just did one, great too. That's also great. Don't get caught up. Don't get caught up in these crazy ritualistic things that people say: oh, you need to do this, you need to do that. Yeah, okay, that might work for you. Look at the rock! I always look at people who are super, duper successful. Which usually means they’re celebrity status and they're very wealthy. And I say: They didn't start like that. Now, unless there was pure nepotism and their family just handed it to them, but that's still rare to get to this level. I just listened to The Rock on one of my favorite podcasts and he was saying that, man, we were living in this tiny apartment and my dad was a pro-wrestler and was struggling. And I told him I wanted to be a wrestler. My dad had a fit and we got into a fight, and lo and behold, wrestling is what really put The Rock on the map. And then he evolved from there. It's just those little interesting things. You're like, okay, wow. If he did it; he found something that he was really interested in, got good at it, and then pursued it and it happened. Look, I never made it to Eddie Van Halen status. Nobody knows “Nomad, Eruption”, but that's okay. I made it to my status. I made it to where I am. And guess what? I never had to dig ditches for a living. I got to play music instead. That's not to say… I actually really do enjoy digging ditches. I love doing yard work. Very different. I'm not putting one down for the other. My point is, I got to do music as a living. And still do (knock on wood).

Michael: Absolutely. Awesome. How about we wrap things up with 1 more audience question. Lisa, I did see that. You had your hand up for a little bit. I'm not sure if you still want to come on here live and ask your question, but I'd love to hear from you. Hey, Lisa!

Lisa: Hey, how are you guys doing? Thank-you so much both of you for the great, great inspirational talk here. I was just going to give you an alley oop for all the times that you talked to us about small wins and gratitudes, because it's really about those little bites, like you were talking about how it’s been actually something that helped propel me and just changed my whole mind/way I think about being in music and what it is that I deliver. Nomad, the other thing that you brought up which I think is really important for people to hear other artists say is: I'm at the status that I'm supposed to be at. I'm where I want to be. I'm living my best life doing what I want to do. And it's: I'm being a creative on my own terms, whatever those terms are. So I think this whole idea of generalizing and having this kind of “American dream” of what is successful and what isn't successful is always being pushed on musicians as far as: this is what your rubric should be. All these people should love you. But really all you need is your people to love you. All you need are for the people that actually connect with what it is that you're doing, and you can be your best and most honest self. So I want to thank-you both for really talking about that and just saying that, that those small wins and gratitudes really take us far.

Michael: Aww! Thank-you so much, Lisa. That means a lot.

Nomad: Lisa, that was amazing.

Michael: It really was. I got goosebumps as you were talking. Can we do a round of applause. That was so well articulated, Lisa.

Nomad: That was amazing, Lisa. And thank-you, by the way, I love that word rubric. What a great term. And it's so accurate.

Michael: Absolutely. Lisa, you've had such an extraordinary journey with your music as well. I think that you have a lot of wisdom and to be able to speak from. So hearing that having the wins and the gratitude to something that is really impacted you and your life and your career I think is a great testament to that practice of what you're referring to. This is the most practical framework that I found for implementing this gratitude, and there's a lot of different ways to do this. We usually try to start out meetings by doing a quick round of wins and gratitudes and people just share what they're grateful for, what the wins are. But I also love the book: 5-minute journal, and basically it's a 5-minute journal where you write in it once a day; you can do it twice a day, really, do it in the morning and at night and you write down 3 wins or gratitudes and you write down 3 future wins or gratitudes. And then at the end of the day, you write down a highlight, or what was a highlight from the day. And that is such a powerful practice coming back to gratitude. When we talk about this comparisonitis and trying to be somewhere else then where we are, it seems like that's rooted in a lack of appreciation or a lack of gratitude and just being here/being present. Because when you're grateful, you can't be both grateful and anxious or angry at the exact same time. You can kinda flip between them, but it's literally not possible to be grateful for something and at the exact same time to be anxious. There's something powerful in that.

Nomad: Yeah. It's being hungry and full. [both laughing] It's one or the other. Yeah, absolutely right. Man, Lisa, that was spot on. Just don't listen to anybody. Just put blinders on. Again, part of the career musician ethos, which is the book that I wrote, the e-book, and it's also an audio book. It's available on the website. That's the whole thing. It talks about: you got to put on these blinders, you have to get focused, once you identify your mission/your goal/where you want to get to, then you have to know your why, right? Know why I'm doing this, and then you just have to go do the work and put those blinders on. Don't listen to anybody, and the gratitude is easy. Turn on the news for three minutes, and then you'll realize: oh my gosh. I am so grateful to have shelter, to have clothing, to have food, sustenance, water, because there's people right now that are fighting for all those things all over the globe and even in America. Just all over; anywhere. We have lots to be grateful for. If we're able to attend little workshops like this, then that right there, giant check. Wow. Grateful for that.

Michael: Yeah, that's so good. There's so much truth on that. It's so easy to overlook what we have and take things for granted. Even just basic things like our clothes and groceries and food.

Nomad: Yep.

Michael: I have this joke that sometimes with our cats, when we leave and we come back, and they see us come back with these arms full of food and groceries. They probably just think we're the best hunters of all time. [both laughing] They leave for 20 minutes. They come back. It's just wild the fact that we have these resources, and hot water for showers, and clean water. It's pretty, pretty amazing. Well hey Nomad, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank-you so much for coming on and sharing some of the lessons and wisdom that you've learned in your +30 years of doing this professionally and helping other artists. So I appreciate you being here and being a part of this. For anyone that's listening or watching this right now, who's interested in connecting more and maybe check out your book and or your community or podcast, where's the best place for them to go to dive deeper?

Nomad: TheCareerMusician.com and I kept everything uniform, so all the socials are just @TheCareerMusician. The website has all of the course on how to produce like a pro/pro-level sessions. Really the book is the crux of the matter for me. Right now on the homepage, you can take a little survey to dig deeper as to some of your strengths and weaknesses as a career musician. It's a fun survey. You get a free copy of the ebook actually, and just cool stuff, man. I'm really struggling with social media because although I love it, it's just hard to produce enough content to get out there and every time I bring a team member on and think: okay, they really understand my goals here. It's just hard because I know what I want to be represented out there on social media. I'm learning how to take more time and do it myself because it's more effective because I'm the one with the message, with the mindset, and with the experience. You'll see me out there on the socials. Say, hi. Say that we met here with Michael Walker on Modern Musician. Don't be afraid to reach out. Ask me anything, DM me, email me info@thecareermusician.com. I'm here to help.

Michael: Thank-you, Nomad. Like always, we'll put all the links in the show notes for easy access. If you're here live in our discord community, this is the point where we're going to go to breakout rooms. And so it's basically an opportunity for you to be able to connect with other artists that are here live in the community. I would definitely encourage everyone if you have a few moments to go say Hey, introduce yourself and figure out ways to collaborate and connect with each other. I personally am going to be hopping in and just saying hi in the rooms. If you're watching this anywhere but our private community right now; if you're on YouTube or LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram, or all the places that we’re going to now, if you'd like to join the private community, we have a free resource here for you and you can sign up at go.modernmusician.me/join-community. And this is our second or third time doing this podcast live and broadcasting it everywhere. So if it's not there yet, we'll be adding the links in the description so you can find it easier than remembering it. We would love to connect with you more personally, if you want to come in and be a part of the Modern Musician community of artists that are supporting each other. Let's go ahead and let's close out our live stream for today.

Hey, it’s Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast then there’s a few ways to help us grow.

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