Michael Walker: If you’re listening to this then you likely already know that being an independent musician is a lonely road. And maybe your friends and your family don’t fully understand why you do what you do, or why you invest so much time, energy, and money achieving your music goals. And especially early on, it can be hard to find people who really understand what you’re trying to accomplish and how to make it happen. So, that’s where Modern Musician comes in!

My name’s Michael Walker and I can understand and relate to that feeling. I’ve been there myself, and so has our team of independent artists. The truth is that basically everything good in my life has been a result of music. It’s the reason I met my wife, my 3 kids, it’s how I met my best friends. And now with Modern Musician, we have seen so many talented artists who started out with a dream, with a passion, without really a fanbase or a business. And you’ll take that and turn it into a sustainable full-time career and be able to impact hundreds, maybe even thousands or millions of fans with your music. We’ve had thousands of messages from artists who told us we’ve helped change their lives forever. It just gets even more exciting and fulfilling when you’re surrounded by a community of other people who get it, and who have shared their knowledge and success with each other openly. So, if you are feeling called into making your music a full-time career and to be able to reach more people with your music, then I want to invite you to join our community so that we can help support your growth and we can help lift you up as you pursue your musical dreams. You’ll be able to interact in a community with other high-level artists, coaches, and industry professionals, as well as be able to participate in our daily live podcast, meet these amazing guests, and get access to completely free training. If you’d like to join our family of artists who truly care about your success, then click on the link in the show notes and sign-up now. 

Lara Chapman: Just because that works for somebody else and it has helped them see success doesn't mean that thing is also going to work for you. So they're chasing something that is not right for them just because they think that's THAT’S what they need to do to see success. 

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Yeah. All right.

Lara Chapman: Amazing!

Michael Walker: I'm excited to be here today with Lara Chapman. Lara is an award winning singer/songwriter turned viral vocal coach and she's the founder of Vox Tape Studios. After many successful releases, hundreds of shows and navigating the realities of the music industry herself, she discovered her true passion, which is helping artists and vocalists be able to transform from singers into actual artists. And so her coaching videos have now reached millions of passionate singers around the world. And she's built a reputation in the industry as the go-to coach for helping singers to find their own voice as an artist. And so I'm really excited to have her on the podcast today to be able to share some gems, some lessons that really are so at the core, I think of being an artist, right? Being an artist. And, if you're a singer, especially, your voice is something that is the first thing that people really connect with, they identify with. And your voice really represents so much more than just the sound. It really represents your message and it represents who you are and how you deliver that. So I think it's such an important and powerful thing to be able to focus on. So looking forward to having a conversation today about: how can artists find their unique voice and Lara, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Lara Chapman: Well, thank-you for having me. And thanks for the lovely introduction. You're making me sound very important. [both laughing]  I don't know if I’m that important.

Michael: Just saying things as they are. just calling it like it is. Lara real quick, maybe for anyone who this is their first time connecting with you, could you share just briefly a little bit about your work that you do with VoxTapeStudio and, and the vocalist and how you got to where you are today? 

Lara: Yeah, absolutely. Like you said in your introduction, we are an online vocal studio, so we do private lessons. We also have some online courses as well, but we basically help singers find who they are, like vocally, and as artists, but also, the technical side of singing. I feel like one of the most important things to do to figure out what you do really well is: release tension and making singing feel good. When singing feels good is when you're going to sound incredible. Our top priority is helping people make singing feel good and then figure out: okay, what is that thing about your voice that makes everyone go: Oh my God, who is this person? They are amazing. I need to check out their Spotify, whatever. So that's where our passion lies. We work with contemporary singers. So anything that's like pop, rock, R&B, soul, funk, country, Christian music. Anything that's contemporary is where we specialize, that's our specialty. And how did I end up here? By kind of accident, honestly. My mom is a teacher, so I guess teaching is in my blood. When I saw her teach… She's a kindergarten teacher. So she used to teach recorder lessons in school, not like singing lessons or anything like that. But, I was always like: Oh mom, I could never do what you do. This is incredibly exhausting and just kids screaming. And I'm like: Oh my God, I can never do this. I'm going to go move to Hollywood and be a famous singer and stuff. That's what I'm going to do. Turns out that's not so easy to do. And also, I was doing it, like I was playing all these shows. I did all these interviews and social media and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I did all that jazz and just realized that I didn't like it as much as I thought I was going to. And I feel like in this industry, if you don't love-love-love-love-love it, it's not really worth it because it comes with a lot of sacrifices and I was just not into that. It was just not important enough for me because I realized that coaching/teaching voice lessons was something I just did on the side because I needed to make money. And I realized that I enjoyed that way more than figuring out what to post on social media and just playing the whole game. I just really didn't enjoy that. I loved the writing. I loved the performing. I loved the recording, all the creative stuff that was so fun, but everything else I just really didn't enjoy at all. I realized that I loved helping others and teaching others, and helping them with their voices so much more, and it gave me the flexibility that I was looking for as well. And I've been doing this full-time since 2020, since COVID and I'm so happy. It's so much fun. I love what I do and I get to work from my basement. We're in my basement right now. And yeah, that's how I got into coaching kind of by accident, but I am so glad it happened and I wouldn't change it for the world. 

Michael: Amazing. Yeah. Thank-you for sharing that. You're such an amazing singer yourself and you're able to share that with other artists as well. So I do think that you having that background of having gone through your own journey with music and continuing to work on your voice does create a great foundation for you to be able to coach and help other artists as well.

Lara: Oh, of course.

Michael: So I would love to hear based on your experience now, both personally with your own voice and also with working with so many other vocalists, what have you found has been one of the biggest challenges or kind of reoccurring patterns or themes as it relates to them connecting with their unique voice or releasing tension? What's getting in the way of that?

Lara: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. We used to be exactly the same way. They have this idea of what they think that they need to sound like, or they need to be able to do in order to see success in the music industry. So they think: I need to be able to sing as high as Ariana Grande, but also belt my face off like Demi Lovato, but also have the vibrato of Whitney Houston. Just like all these different things. And they're comparing themselves to some of the most successful and the most skilled singers out there, not realizing that just because that works for somebody else and it has helped them see success, doesn't mean that thing is also going to work for you. So they're chasing something that is not right for them just because they think that THAT’S what they need to do to see success.  And again, no shade. I was exactly the same way. I thought that I needed to sing like Christina Aguilera to see success in music. I forced my voice to do things that didn't come naturally to me. I learned how to do these things through vocal coaching, through taking lessons for decades myself, and I learned a lot and I'm really grateful for that, but I didn't see success until I realized what my strengths are. I explored that more and really took advantage of that and showcase that as much as possible. That's when I started seeing success and it was totally different from what everyone else was doing out there. 

Michael: Awesome. Yeah it's so good. And it's so interesting thinking about the relationship between your voice and yourself and who you are and the way that you express yourself. It seems a common theme for a lot of the most successful artists is that they went through this journey of discovering who they are. And part of that came with what you're describing of trying to be who they thought other people wanted them to be. And then they eventually looked within. They found something that was who they were and that was unique to them and they were able to express that. How do you recommend anyone who's right now listening to this and he's been trying to figure that out? They're like: who the heck am I? And what is special about my voice and how can I lean into that? Where do they even get started with that?

Lara: Yeah. I love that you're bringing this up. Cause this is usually the biggest question that I get. They're like: okay, I hear you. I hear what you're saying. And it seems to make sense… but how? And I'm like: there's a lot of different ways you can go about that. One of the things that I always tell people to pay attention to is: what came easily to you before you had any sort of coaching? If you already had voice lessons or if you already had some help from other people, maybe you did some online courses or you learned how to sing from YouTube videos, whatever it is you did. Before you started to do anything, what came naturally to you? What was easy for you to do? For me that was low notes, right? I could sing low all day long. I did not know how to access my head voice before I started taking voice lessons. I didn't even know it existed. But then all I wanted to do was chase that, and sing higher and higher and higher. Anyways, pay attention to what you could do before you had any sort of coaching. And then the other thing is getting feedback from other people. That's what really changed everything for me. When I first signed with my manager, I was singing a bunch of different songs, I was writing a bunch of different songs and just sent him everything that I had and when he heard me sing Brandy Carlisle's “The Story”, it has some low notes in there. I sang it because she belts her face off in that song, but what stood out to him were my low notes. And then he was like: Oh my gosh, Lara, why are you doing all this Christina stuff? You need to do low notes. Like you sound incredible singing these low notes. And I'm like, are you kidding me? The thing that is easy…. You want me to do that? You don't want me to do the thing that I work super hard for? He’s like, no. The thing that's easy. And that's when everything clicked for me, right? A lot of singers have this idea that singing needs to be hard. And when it's hard, that's when you know you're “doing it right”. And that's when everything will admire you because it's so hard to do this, right?

It's hard work, but it's actually exactly the opposite. When singing feels effortless to you, when you can do this every day, all day, that's when people connect with you. And they're like: Oh my gosh, how did she just make this sound so easy? I wish I could do that. I wish I could sing this note so easily, or I wish I could have this cool, effortless vibrato in my singing, or whatever it is, right? It's when it's effortless, that's when it connects with people, and that's when everything changes. And, It's also good news for your vocal health, right? You don't have to strain. You don't have to work your little booty off to see success in singing. It's actually quite the contrary. Now, I'm not saying that you should never work on your voice and step outside of your comfort zone and explore other things that you could do with your voice. You absolutely should, right? You want to broaden your horizon. You want to be as well rounded as you possibly can. But when it comes to performing, you really need to dig into the things that come easily to you.

We were just in Hawaii together last month, and I don't remember who it was, if it was Eli or if it was Friedemann who said: it's not about finding yourself, it's about defining yourself. Do you remember who said that?

Michael: Sounds like something that either one of them could have said, but my guess would be Friedemann because based on the branding exercise he did. 

Lara: Yes, exactly. And I was like: Oh my God, that makes so much sense and I feel like that has a part in this here as well. Like, how do you find your thing? It's not so much about finding it, more so about defining it, right? Like, where are you at right now? What is that right now? Rather than chasing something. I feel like if we approach it from a finding perspective, it seems like we're chasing something we don't already have. But that thing that makes you different from everybody else, the thing that comes easily and effortlessly to you, the thing that's gonna make everyone go: wow, who is this person, is already within you. You just need to define what that is. You know what I mean? So that really stood out to me. And I wanted to mention this here too, because I'm like: Oh, this is so cool.

Michael: Yeah. I love that. It’s so good. What it reminds me of is this analogy that I think perfectly articulates what you're describing right now that it's sort of like: Rather than feeling like you need to find or be someone else or do something outside of you that, we want to… it's like you have a big ice block and if you're trying to create artwork from it, you like chip away everything, on the edges to create this form, but it's not like you're doing something different. You're actually digging deeper into who you already are and you're just carving it so you can express that.

Lara: Yes. Oh I love that! Yes, you're not adding to the ice, you're chipping away from the ice, right? You're just getting to the essence of the ice, which is like: you're getting to the essence of you. And it's the same thing here, right? Like I said, what could you do before you had any sort of training? It's already within you. It's within you from birth or however it is you want to put that, right? It's already within you. You just need to remove all the fancy bells and whistles and all the techniques and embellishments and all that stuff that you learn along the way, then just come back to ground zero essentially, right? What is it really that makes you different from everybody else? And who are you at the essence? How do we define that rather than find it? Because again, like I said, if we're looking for something, we look for that outside of ourselves. But if we define it, we look for it within ourselves, at least for me that's how it makes sense to me. 

Michael: Absolutely. I feel like I can understand and remember… I can recall our last conversation and how I could understand how we got… I remember getting to some really profound, deep conversations and I feel like we've probably gotten there in some way and how we're getting there right now, just in terms of identity. And how do we define ourselves and, what is unique, or what is our ‘self’ at the core? Because I think we've already gone down that path and for anyone who hasn't heard it yet, I would definitely recommend going in and listening to the other podcasts that we did with Lara as well cause it was fantastic. If anyone's actually here live right now, feel free to put something in the comments or the chat or raise your hand if you have any specific questions that you'd like to ask Lara. I think that one testament that I've seen to you, Lara, and the work that you're doing is from Shane on our team, and he's someone that I regard extremely highly in my life. He's like one of the best humans that I know and one of the most successful musicians that I know. And he was just gushing about the vocal work that you've done with him. So I know that it's really transformative. It's extremely valuable. I'm curious for people who are listening to us right now, who are wanting to explore and figure out how to define themselves, what are some action steps maybe that they could take to start doing that. You mentioned getting feedback is one of those things that's valuable. So like, how do you get feedback and who should you ask for it? What do you recommend for that?

Lara: Yeah, I love that you're bringing up Shane. Shane is so sweet. He's so great. He talks so highly of me and my team and I'm like: Oh, wow, like we didn't even do that much. Obviously we did a lot. It's just like to him, it was life changing because he was always like: I look at myself as a songwriter, not as a singer. And I'm really struggling to sing and do these things. And I'm like: okay, sing something and let's figure out how bad it really is. He’s like: okay. And he was really good from the beginning. He was at least very decent. Okay? Very pleasant to listen to and just like giving him the validation, maybe if that's the word I'm looking for… just the feedback of: Hey, actually like you got this! You can do this and you are much closer to where you want to be than you think you are. Let's make a couple of tweaks here and there and then you're going to be great. And we already did a couple of tweaks in his first session and it made a huge change. And he was one of the people who was like: Oh my gosh, I feel guilty because it now feels so much easier than it did before and I didn't think that singing could feel so effortless and so easy. And I didn't know that was the right way to do it. I thought it was supposed to be so difficult. And I'm like: no, it's supposed to feel easy! It's supposed to feel like you can do this every day, all day. And that on its own, within just that first 45 minute session, that made a huge change in his singing. And that made me so happy. And then we continued working with him and all that stuff. But feedback is one of the best things you can get. And especially if it's feedback from someone in the field, right? It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking to get vocal feedback, you should get feedback from someone who is a vocal coach or someone who has been in the industry for a really long time. But if you're looking to get feedback on delivery, with the way you perform live with your instruments, then it's not just a vocal coach. Then it's probably also a songwriting coach. Someone who understands your original music. It could be a performance coach as well, which a lot of vocal coaches do, like us included. We do that as well. But it's really important that you're getting feedback from the right people. Your mom…. We love your mom, but she might not really know what she's talking about and she's going to love whatever it is you do either way. Same with your grandma and all these supportive people that you have around you. Try and get feedback from people that maybe don't know you. Maybe they do know you, but they are professionals in the industry. They don't necessarily need to be coaches, though, I would recommend that they are because they can give you very constructive feedback. So for example a manager or a booking agent. They can tell you what they like and don't like about your voice, your performance, your songs, whatever it is you're trying to get feedback on. But they can't tell you why. And they can't tell you what to change to make it better. Whatever that means, right? A coach, on the other hand, absolutely can because this is what they do every day all day. We can give you constructive criticism and feedback, but in addition to that, we can also help you make changes and get to where you want to be based on our feedback and our help. So definitely a coach is a really great way to go. And having that 1:1 feedback, there's just like nothing that beats that. I understand that is usually the most expensive option. If you're paying for those services, if you don't just have a vocal coach friend laying around, but if you're paying for those services, I understand it can get a little bit pricey, but there's a reason why it is a little bit pricey because there's just nothing that beats it. If you can work 1:1 with someone for an hour, you have their full attention, you can dissect everything it is you're doing. [backtracks] You can't do everything in one hour, but you can do a lot in one hour. No, that's definitely the best way to go.

Michael: Totally makes sense. Yeah. I think that there is something about personalization and customizing things, like tailoring things to who you are specifically that's extremely powerful. It's one thing that I think our education system overall is pretty rife for is the opportunity for improvement because it came from this factory style of… Who was it like Henry Ford that sort of popularized the same thing we use for our school systems nowadays? Whereas like having personalization…

Lara: Yeah, you see that with colleges too. If I'm saying: private 1:1 lessons can be pricey, look at colleges! I went to the Berkeley College of Music, and if I'm calculating how much money I spend per hour that I was sitting in a classroom, it is way more than I ever paid for vocal training for private 1:1 lessons. And I was in a class. It was not 1:1 instruction or anything besides my private voice lessons. But they were 30 minutes once a week. And it was over before it began, really. So the private 1:1 instruction, there's just nothing that beats it, and it’s sometimes even cheaper than college. [laughing]

Michael: Yeah, we could talk a lot about music college and education in general. But one thing that I was curious about is around the performance. You mentioned that you focus the vocal lessons around identifying your unique voice, but also in terms of how you perform. And personally, that's something that I've generally struggled with as it relates to performing music or singing is that it's easy for me to sing by myself. But with the band that I performed in Paradise Fears for 10 years, I was the keyboardist. And so I got to hang out in my own area. I was more of a backstage tech kind of person as opposed to a front man doing the singing. It's always something that I felt has been more challenging is the actual performance and not being in my head as I'm singing in front of people. So, I'm curious how you support and help other people, cause I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has that experience. Performing is putting yourself out there and I can imagine that being a challenge. So what would your recommendation be for anyone who is looking to overcome the… maybe you call it stage fright or is just looking to improve their performance overall without being as self conscious?

Lara: Yeah. It comes down to confidence, right? And the confidence doesn't necessarily just come from vocal skill, how good of a singer you are, but it's a very big mental game. Singing in general is a very mental thing. While feeling secure in your vocal abilities helps you feel a little bit more confident and comfortable, it's not everything. And so we definitely need to address that as well. And musicality in general, too. I was actually really surprised when I first started teaching voice lessons. There's some singers out there that have been taking lessons for years and they're actually really quite skilled vocalists, but they're basic musical knowledge and feel, most importantly, it's just not there. So for example, singing and doing a simple step touch (dance move) at the same time, and singing at the same time to music was impossible for some of these people. And I'm like: Oh Lord! Wait, why? Where's this disconnect coming from? I'm not saying you need to know music theory. That has nothing to do with it. That's again, a very brain heavy thing. I'm more interested in the feel. Can you embody the music and can you move together with the music? That'll help you feel so much more secure on stage because you're not constantly worried about: Oh, when do I have to come in? Oh my gosh, am I ahead? Am I behind? You just feel the music. And this is a skill that a lot of people out there think you either have, or you don't. That is not true, and many of my students are proof that is not true. I would say for me, it came naturally. I'm not going to lie. But a lot of my students, it didn't come naturally to. So we practice it. We practice the skill, just like any other skill. And that helps them feel so much more musical and so much more secure in their bodies, and in the music in general as well, whether they're singing with a band or to a track or they're accompanying themselves. It'll also help with the whole multi-tasking thing: playing and singing at the same time, whether you're playing piano and singing, or playing guitar and singing, whatever it is. It'll help you with that as well just to feel more like: I know this, and I got this, and I feel comfortable with this, just musically. We call this groove work, right? We work on groove. And then, like I said, the mental side of singing, like turning limiting beliefs into serving thoughts, rather than: Oh my gosh, here comes the high note. I hope I won't crack. That's a limiting belief. Let's turn that into a serving thought. Something like: I practice this every single day and I have nailed this every single time. There is no reason why I can't hit this note now. It's going to go great. Just changing your mindset and changing how you approach notes or performances and the vocal skills in general. And I truly believe that when you find your thing and you believe that is your thing and you do that really well, then you feel much more deserving of what you're getting. So I had a student once, her name was Izzy. And she reached out to me. We worked together for a couple months and then she went off to her own thing. She got signed to a label. Super proud of her. She did such great work. And then she reached out to me a couple months later and was like: Hey, I got this gig as an opening act for this really big artist and I am strugglebusing. I am so nervous. I don't know why they asked me to do this. And I'm like: do you remember what we talked about? They asked you. You didn't harass them, first of all. They asked you. So they know that you have something to bring to the table that nobody else can. You deserve to be there. They see this in you, so now it's time for you to see this in yourself as well, right? There's something that only you have, and that's exactly what they were looking for. If they wanted someone who sings like Demi Lovato, they wouldn't have asked you. But they were looking for someone who is a really great storyteller, and who writes some really cool, folky songs. And you are the right person for that. You have this unique thing that they are looking for. You can bring this to the table and nobody else can.

Michael: Thank you for sharing that.

Lara: Sure!

Michael: Yeah, super inspiring. And I'm definitely sold on taking vocal lessons. I'm going to be connecting with you afterwards to at least book our first session.

Lara: Let’s go!

Michael: For me, it's really when you describe the performance part of it. I think the limiting belief for myself is that I was never much of a dancer.

Lara: Same.

Michael: I was the kid who would stay on the sidelines. I just felt really awkward. And especially in high school, I was a super lanky, awkward looking kid. You can imagine this like tree awkwardly moving around the dance floor. [both laughing] And I think that's just bled into performing, and that groove work that you talk about. I feel I don't have a lot of anxiety about my voice or performing from a standpoint of actually singing, but from the standpoint of just performing on stage and knowing how to move, and be comfortable doing that.

Lara: There you go. And a big part is just identifying where is the anxiety or the fear coming from. Like you just said: Oh, it's the moving part. It's not the actual singing part. I feel good about that. It's the moving part. I feel awkward on stage, like standing on stage. I don't know what to do with my hands.

Michael: I don't know what to do with my hands. That's the thought.

Lara: The amount of time I get that question….. It so doesn't matter what you do with your hands.

Michael: Hey Lara, can you settle it? What do we do with our hands, Lara? Please tell us. [both laughing]

Lara: You know, whatever it is your heart desires. No, the goal is, at the end of the day, to never ever think about what it is you're doing with your hands. If you are worried about what it is you're doing with your hands, you're not telling me a story. You're worried about yourself rather than serving your audience. Performing is not about you, at least for the successful performers. It's not about you. It's about your audience. You want to show your audience a good time. You want to help them feel understood. You want to help them feel heard. You just want them to dance. Like whatever it is you want to do, right? However, you want your audience to feel. That's very keyword right here. Feel. We always want to feel something. We want to serve the audience. And if you are worried about what it is you're doing with your hands, you're not serving your audience. You're worried about yourself. So we need to figure out: okay what is your song about? And let's focus on telling that story and your arms will do what they have to do to support you in telling that story automatically. Rather than on this note, I'm going to do [sings] thiiiiiis. Sure we can have some sort of choreography, but that's not really what it is about. It's just like, you are so in your head and worried about what you look like and what you sound like. Let's focus on your audience instead and how can we serve them? Obviously, a part of that is feeling more comfortable in your body, in the groove, in the movements and things like that. That's another part of that, like we talked about. But a big part is serving your audience, not yourself.

Michael: That's awesome. Yeah, that's super valuable. And that, interestingly, that's the same realization that really helped me personally overcome social anxiety when I was growing up in high school. It was realizing that: yeah, I'm just thinking a lot about myself and the truth is like most people aren't thinking that much about you or aren't thinking about how you're moving your hands that much. Most people are thinking about themselves and they're concerned more about themselves, that you might as well just be yourself and lean into that. 

Lara: Absolutely. Oh, 100%. People are always preoccupied with themselves and concerned about themselves and not really about you. They don't really care. 

Might as well do what you want, right? And you're gonna piss some people off either way. You're always gonna have the odd person that's like: you suck, and you look so awkward on stage, and you totally missed that note, and I heard you mess up the lyrics, and whatever it is, right? You're always gonna have these people, but they are a very small minority. The majority of the people, the vast majority of the people that are watching you perform right there to have a good time, they’re thinking about themselves, and they also want to support you. They want you to do well because when you do well, they have a better time, right? When you are not feeling good on stage, when you are not feeling comfortable and confident on stage, they feel that. And they always in the back of their minds are a little concerned about you. And I am not paying $20-$200, how much your ticket is for a live show. I'm not paying that to be concerned. I'm paying that to have a good time. Feeling confident and comfortable on stage is super important.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah. Super valuable. The one other thing that helped me, personally as it relates to that confidence or getting on stage… cause there is a certain excitement that always comes with getting up on stage and performing. I feel like there's been studies that getting up on stage, public speaking or performing, the #1 fear of most people. And even more than death in some cases, terribly afraid of just being in front of people. There's someone who brought this up this weekend on a trip that I went to and they brought up this mindset shift between viewing what your body is doing leading up to a performance instead of seeing it as I'm nervous about this, or I'm feeling afraid, just framing it as: I'm feeling excited. I'm feeling excited for this thing because it's the same actual feeling chemically in your body; the same hormones that are happening. But just by shifting that mindset and being like: Oh, like this is just my body waking me up and it's getting me excited to go do this thing. It's actually a good thing. That was one thing that I know helped me a lot with performing from a standpoint of the type of performances that I did with the band, and doing the keyboard performances. Because before that, I had some panic attacks on stage. It could be really challenging. So at least that was something that helped me get more comfortable with performing keyboard. But I can imagine for people who are doing performances themselves, maybe you've had a similar experience. It takes a lot of courage to get over that initial fear of performing. 

Lara: For sure! Oh, I used to get sick before every single performance. My immune system is a friggin rock star, okay? I never get sick and I'm very grateful for that. But, literally, no fail, before every single performance as a kid, I would get sick because I was so nervous. I was so nervous and then my body was like: okay if we get sick, she can't sing. So then she doesn't have to perform so we can get out of this situation that makes us feel uncomfortable. Now, I always ended up performing anyways. Like I was never that sick. Always just a little raspy, a little sore throat, little… whatever. Your body does react, but like I said before, singing and performing both of them are a very mental thing, right? You can sabotage yourself with your mind or you can set yourself up for success just using your mind. And that's what you were just talking about: Looking at it as excitement rather than nerves or panic or whatever it is. That is super helpful. I also heard Beyonce say in an interview once that I don't know the exact quote…

Michael: Should we call her up quick? [both laughing] Hey Beyonce, quick question…

Lara: What was that exact quote again? No, but basically she was just like: being nervous means you care. If you don't feel any nerves at all whatsoever, that just means you don't care. And then you're not going to have a good performance because you don't care. But you do care, right? You care about your audience. You care about yourself probably a little bit as well, right? You want to give people what they paid for, and if it's a free show, you just want to show them a good time, right? Whatever it is. And you, yourself, want to have a good time as well. So you care. So being nervous, feeling a little something-something, is a good sign. It means you care. That is also, I think, important to remember. And then again, viewing it as excitement rather than just sheer fear of judgment, I think is a big thing, right? Like, why are we so afraid? We're afraid of being judged and we're afraid of being disliked. Mental switch. We're making it sound so easy, right? We're just like: yeah, just think differently and you're good. It's not that easy. It takes some practice. It definitely takes some practice. And the only way to get better at performing is by practicing, right? Just like with singing. The only way to get better at singing is by practicing. But there are some more lower risk things you can do to practice your performance skills. Like your first performance shouldn't be in an arena. That'd be great, but I promise you it will not be great. You will shit your pants, okay? [both laughing] It's not a good time. It is not a good time. You want to start out with something much smaller. You can start by just posting a pre recorded clip of yourself on Instagram stories. It disappears after 24 hours. Most people will probably not even see it. But just dipping your toes into the water one by one to get over your fear of performance and get over your fear of being heard and being judged. There's many little things that we can do to help you prepare before you even sing live in front of anyone; before you sing in-person in front of anyone. So yeah, don't feel like you have to sing in front of hundreds of people from day 1. No. Not at all.

Michael: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. I feel like most of the artists that I've talked to who are killing it and doing big stages are people who got their start, likeall of us, like they started with open mic nights and they just started like performing and eventually that kind of built up. It is interesting: wanting that desire to skip those initial stages and just jump right into the amphitheater.

Lara: Well yeah, it's just instant gratification, right? Especially in today's day and age because of social media and the internet in general. Literally, if you don't know the answer to something, you do not have to go to the library. Like, get on your horse, go to the library and find the right book. You just take out your phone and you just Google it and three seconds later, you know the answer to literally any question you can have. So it's that instant gratification and it's the same thing with any sort of training, right? We don't want to practice singing for 30-45 minutes every single day. No, we just want to sound like Beyonce today. But it's just not how it works. And it's the same thing with performing, right? You have to play those crappy gigs before you go on stage. Obviously there's always some exceptions, right? Like maybe people who are going to these like talent shows, like The Voice or American Idol or America's Got Talent or whatever it is. There are some singers that are on these stages and they only did the couple rounds singing for the judges before the televised rounds and then they're on this big stage and they're singing in front of all these people, but they've never really done that before. Sure, it happens, but that's just not the norm at all. Even Lady Gaga has played to a room of literally no one or maybe one or two people. I did the same thing. I remember this one time I was driving one and a half hours to get to this gig and the only person there was the freaking bartender and my husband, who was my roadie, helping me set up and tear down all my stuff, right? And I'm like, why did I just do this? Why did I just drive three hours, 1.5 hours one-way, set-up, play for 2 hours to nobody except the bartender? Like, why? Why am I doing this? And, but it's just a part of the gig. It's just a part of it.

Michael: We had that exact same experience. I wonder if anyone who's here live, if you had the experience too of literally just playing like a show for just the bartender. But it was funny too, in a similar way you had to drive three hours… I can't remember the length of the car drive, but I do remember this particular venue was like the worst show that we've ever played. It was just set up so poorly for a live performance. There was like three giant flights of stairs and what led up to the final room was this very thin staircase that was extremely steep. And so I remember carrying our drum tote up that, that thin… cramps… and we did, it was so challenging and then it was just the bartender in the room. And I remember too, there was a bunch of signs along the way that just were very unfriendly to the performers. I don't know if they had bad experiences with performers in the past, but they're like: don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. Like “you guys suck” without saying “you guys suck” basically.

Lara: Yeah.

Michael: But it's totally… it's so true. You don't hear anyone who is successful that doesn't have those stories where they had to face embarrassment or “failure”, they just had to suck for a while to get good. So that's an inspiring reminder. So thank-you for sharing.

Lara: Yeah, And it's honestly, it's a safe space to practice. Like I said, anything, even performing, it takes practice. So look at that as practice, right? Like even the bartender is a person, so you better give that bartender the performance of their lieves. Okay? You better knock him out of the park and then he’ll go telling everyone, all their friends about you. No, really just look at it as practice. It's unfortunately a part of the gig, but look at it as practice. An opportunity to get better.

Michael: Yeah, that's a great mindset. Yeah. There was someone on the podcast a couple of days ago. I think it might've been Bobby Ozinski who was talking about how…

Lara: Bobby!

Michael: Yeah, you know Bobby! I wish he could have made it out to Hawaii. I think he was actually in Hawaii a couple of weeks after we were there. But he was describing a similar quote to what we just talked about, which was something along the lines of: early on, there's a blessing to have obscurity. There's a blessing to have obscurity because we can play around and figure out who we are, and be creative.

Lara: Yeah!

Michael: So, it is something that I think sometimes we overlook as musicians. If we're just starting out, we don't have a fan base that we might wish that we had an audience of 10,000 or a hundred thousand or millions of people that are watching us. And sometimes there are people who have that… they wish that they had the playground to be able to explore and create things in obscurity.

Lara: Yeah.

Michael: Just something to honor, like wherever you're at, you're there right now. So just show up and work through the stage that you're at. 

Lara: 100%. Couldn't agree more.

Michael: Awesome.

Lara: It's tough. It's tough to remember that.

Michael: Yeah

Lara: It's like: Oh, but I'm not where I want to be. Like, why am I doing this? The whole self doubt, right? Nobody came to listen. Or whatever it is. It is really tough to appreciate it, and look at it from a positive standpoint. But try.

Michael: That's good. Yeah that's the work. Yeah, that's is great. So, how about we go to our audience? I think we have some questions coming in here.

Lara: Yeah. Cool.

Michael: If you're here live in our community, then I would love to hear any questions that you have for Lara. I'm looking at AllInTheFanBeats says: she makes me want to learn how to sing. Now, LOL, is that possible? Can I become a singer if I have zero experience?

Lara: Absolutely!

Michael: So I'm guessing maybe AllInTheFanBeats, maybe you're like a rapper, maybe like you're a beat creator and you're wondering: is it possible to become a singer if I don't have any experience doing that?

Lara: Absolutely. Yes. So singing is just training muscles. So just like any other muscle in your body, right? You can train. Iff you are a couch potato currently, AKA me, and you want to get into shape, what you do, you hit the gym every single day, five times a week, whatever. And then with some training over the next couple of months… Maybe a couple of years, you'll be a crazy bodybuilder and you look amazing, right? It's the same thing for the voice. Your voice consists of muscles. So just like any other muscle, you can train your voice. Now in singing, it is more than just muscle training, right? We also need to make sure that you will have the basic musicality. So a little bit of what we talked about, right? Like the whole like step-touch, step-touch, step-touch thing. But also your training, right? Making sure you're singing the right notes. You're singing the right notes at the right time, things like that. But all of that can be trained. We all start on a different level, right? Some people start ground 0 and they've never sang, like they've never touched an instrument. They've never created a beat. They don't rap. They don't do anything right. Like they have 0 connection to music. Maybe they'll listen to music, but that's about it. And some people, they listen to music, they've played an instrument, but they've never sung before. So they start maybe here because they already have that musical foundation, right? And then there's others that have been singing their entire lives. So they started a little bit. But we all start from a different level, but we can all work to get to the next level, and the next level, and the next level. And the next level, 100%.

Michael: Awesome. That's super inspiring. Yeah. What came to mind as you're describing that was Matthew McConaughey. He was someone who literally had no acting experience and he got picked up off the side of the road, if I remember correctly. And he's an amazing actor. And so obviously not all of us are Matthew McConaughey [both laughing] and it's certainly not actors, but it is inspiring just to know that, like you just said, that It doesn't matter if you don't have experience, it's just about where you're at right now, taking that stage. And it's really a personal journey and you can get started at any point. Awesome.

Lara: Absolutely. But it is work, right? You have to put in the work. If you don't go to the gym, you're not going to become a bodybuilder. It's the same thing for singing. If you don't practice, if you don't put in the work, it is not going to happen. 

Michael: Awesome. [sarcastically] Wait, I can't just be Beyonce without doing anything?

Lara: Well, maybe you. I will grant you your special wish because it's Christmas.

Michael: Yay! This is one of the few times I've ever gotten to use that soundbite, but that was perfect.

Lara: Oh, I love it!

Michael: All right. I think we have time for maybe 1 more question. If anyone has any questions they'd like to ask Lara, we can bring you on here live. A Mentioned… This was when we were talking about excitement versus terror. “I've sang and played in front of audiences for a long time. I'm still uptight. I drink to loosen up.” Yeah. That's why I think a lot of people drink for that reason.

Lara: That is not a long-term solution. 

Michael: Yeah. Dependency on something... It doesn't necessarily have to be drinking, but it does seem like there are certain… one other thing that's come to mind is using… what’s the word I'm looking for? Like when you have a good luck charm or something like that, where you have these little dependencies, then that might do the trick in the short-term. But then if you take that thing away, then that creates some blocks.

Lara: Yeah. Search for it from within.

Michael: Awesome. So maybe we can wrap things up here, Lara, with just like a recap and a reminder around what you described, which I think is really the core of everything that we just talked about, which is about building confidence and just showing up and being yourself and being willing to show up and share who you are and be vulnerable. If you had to go back in time, maybe to when you were just getting started with your singing journey or maybe like in your darkest moment, if you can remember your darkest moment or most challenging moment as it relates to you and your music, what would your advice be in terms of: what do you recommend? And what advice would you give to yourself to help them through that? 

Lara: That is such a good question. Cause I truly believe if I look at where I started out, even if people had told me: No, your low notes are amazing. Let's just stick with that, and we're just gonna make the most out of that. And you're going to sound amazing. And everyone's going to love you. I promise you. Even if, I don't know, some famous person had told me that some famous producer or manager or whatever, I probably still would have fought them on it and be like: no, I want to belt and I want to sing high. I don't think at that point I would have been ready for that kind of information. So I think just allowing yourself to go your journey and your route and not having regrets, but rather, the things come to you at the right time, like the right things come at the right time, because I feel like at some point I had quite a bit of regrets. Why didn't no one tell me about this earlier? Why did I waste literally a decade of working on all these other things that I'm now not using as much because I didn't know that I was supposed to do this other thing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like just having regret and also blaming other people for my problems, which… don't do that. It doesn't help. Just being gentle with yourself and allowing yourself to just be on your journey. And learning as you go, because you're not always ready for a very crucial piece of information in the beginning, but you are ready whenever you're ready for it, right? And then it will click with you. So I think that's my biggest thing: just trusting the process and not being upset about that, but rather just looking at it as a growing opportunity and a learning opportunity and just growing as a person, as a singer, as a performer, as a coach, as an artist. Yeah. All of the above.

Michael: That's super powerful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think we're all figuring out stuff as best as we can. We're always doing our best that we can. So having the grace to be with who you are and to accept who you are right now is a really powerful foundation. And really the roots that can allow you to grow and to achieve the goals that you want to achieve. Beautiful.

Lara: Yeah.

Michael: Lara, thank you again so much for coming on the podcast and talking through these topics of going down into the core of who we are and how do we express that, and also getting very specific about practical tips to become a better performer, a better vocalist. For anyone who's here who's listening to this right now who's interested in going deeper into themselves and their voice and discovering: what is their unique voice and is interested in learning more, where can they go to dive deeper and learn more from you?

Lara: Yeah, absolutely. Love to help wherever I can and I have a really great team of vocal coaches as well. We'd love to help you. So you can find us under VoxTapeStudios

on Instagram, TikTok, like all these social media platforms, YouTube as well our website too. I'd love to set up a lesson with you; a 1:1 session. If you're like: ooh, I'm not ready for that. Okay, girl, Hold your horses! We have some online courses that you can try out. As well, but yeah, just voxtapestudios.com or voxtapestudios on Instagram is where we're the most active. So come and find me there. Send me a DM. I'd love to connect with you.

Michael: Awesome. Like always, all the links for the resources will be available in the show notes for easy access. And again, Lara, I'm excited personally to have a lesson and to explore this more. I couldn't recommend Lara and VoxTapeStudios more highly as it relates to knowing Shane. Shane is like one of our top coaches at Modern Musician. He's also an extremely successful musician himself. And when he has a kind of endorsement for what you do that, that he does, that was the first thing in my mind. I was like: okay, that's awesome. So thank you for creating that.

Lara: Well he was just like: You are the best in the world. I'm like, okay. Okay. Shane, thank-you. I appreciate that. But you're making it sound too good. So people are not going to believe you. [both laughing] But he's awesome. Yeah. And Eli is now taking lessons with us as well from Modern Musician.

Michael Walker: Oh! Amazing. 

Lara: We have the whole Modern Musician team here at VoxTapeStudios. I love it.

Michael Walker: That's awesome. Yeah. Your voice is such an important part of your music and your voice both in terms of your actual vocal chords and the sound that you're making coming out, but also just like your identity and how you show up. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to exploring.

Lara: Amazing. I can't wait. Michael, let's go!

Michael Walker: Let’s go!

Hey, it’s Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast then there’s a few ways to help us grow.

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