Matt: I find when you go in and do like a hundred dollars bar gig, that's when you have the manager asking like, well, how many people did you text?

How many people are coming out tonight? You know, your break was five minutes too long versus, you know, just last week playing a show, getting paid $2,000 to come perform at someone's house. They were so grateful for me to be there. They were just like, and you know, forget the money. It's just, yeah, the quality, the way that you're treated.

It's like, you know, almost like you are some kind of celebrity. They can't express their gratitude enough that that's the kind of thing you feel like they're throwing the party and you're actually a guest there.

Michael: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Alright. I'm excited to be here today with my new friend Matt Santry. So, Matt is the founder of Well Paid Musician which offers training, community coaching, and focused on helping musicians, specifically performing musicians and DJs, to be able to break six figures annually with their music.

He himself is an award-winning songwriter with song placements on HBO Max and Peacock Networks. As the session vocalist, his voice has been featured on national ad campaigns for brands that you've, you probably heard of, like NBC's The Voice, Dollar Shave Club, Febreeze, and more. And you know, aside from doing this himself and building a very successful career as a live performer. Now with Well Paid Musician, he's helped hundreds of performers all over the United States to be able to grow their performance business, to increase their fees, to be able to stay in high demand and create a lifestyle business that they love, sharing their talent with the world.

So I'm really excited to have him on here today so he can geek out a little bit and talk about specifically what's the roadmap look like for, you know, as a musician, what's the roadmap look like to actually build a six-figure business as a live performer? So Matt, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Matt: Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I'm really excited too, and I've been following Modern Musician for a while and we have some mutual friends and mutual members of our community. So this is Yeah, this is a great fit. So thank you.

Michael: Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel like it's overdue. I've, I've heard great things about you, and this is the first time we've really had a chance to connect.

So looking forward to it. So Matt, maybe you could, we could start out for, you know, for anyone who this, their first time connecting with you. Could you share a little bit about yourself and, and your story and kind of how, how you started your own career? Growing as a live performer and building, you know, the company, Well Paid Musician now.

Matt: Sure. Yeah. So you gave me a nice introduction with the bio. You know, some stuff that I've done in my career. I am a singer songwriter, I'm a performer, but, but mainly I would say live performer because that's really what's generated most of my income. So, I guess like the origin story of how I started this program was seven years ago.

My wife and I, well my wife is pregnant, and I'm like, okay. At this point I think it makes most sense. I. For you to be a stay home mom and you know, I just need to figure out what it is that I need to do to generate more income so that we can, we can have this lifestyle. So I made a decision to stop playing those kind of bar club gigs.

Now I'm talking about gigs where you play cover songs, you play other people's music that you know They're pretty easy to find. They don't pay that well, and you have to do a lot of them to make a living. So, I just started focusing. I said, look, I'm gonna set a minimum fee and I'm just gonna focus on private event gigs.

And it really, it just kind of changed everything really quickly in that I was able to like, Two and a half times my, my, the fees that I was getting before that, that I was making just by shifting the market to private events. So I started doing that. It was working, and then I started helping my friends do the same kind of thing.

And then you know, just before the pandemic started, I I launched this program and, and it's been, you know, we've been helping, like you said, hundreds of musicians all over the United States. achieve the same kind of thing. That transition from, you know, doing a lot of these bar restaurant club gigs to being able to make that same amount of money that you'd make, like in five gigs, doing it in one.

Mm-hmm. Being more focused about your career, having a better lifestyle business. And then I've also found that a lot of our members are also artists. So we, we have some members that are also members of your community that have, you know, that are in the Modern Musician program. So, It's a pretty cool intersection.

And yeah, that's, that's pretty much how it started for me.

Michael: I, am I remembering correctly that Logan on our team now Yes. Is, is one one of the students? Yeah, I mean he, I, I remember specifically, he's, he's described his experience, you know, going through your community, going through your programs, and it's made a huge impact on his own, his own life as well.

So, you know, I, I, I see that first firsthand, even though it's the first time that, that we've met. I, I mean, Logan is one of the leaders on our team and the live gigs in, in this specific process you're talking about is making big. Big impact. You know, there's something about that idea of, you know, what is it like the 20, the 80/20 rule?

Mm-hmm. Exactly. Doing less, doing less, but, but getting better results. Doing less, but doing more at the same time. That's just so, so interesting. And, and maybe, maybe you could share a little bit about that philosophy and that idea specifically as it relates to what you're talking about with, with shows and about different quality of shows and, and maybe you could describe.

You know, now that you've, you worked with hundreds of, of artists, you've probably seen some of the same patterns and some of the reoccurring themes or mistakes that people are struggling with when they first come to you. So maybe you could share a little bit about what are some of the biggest challenges or mistakes that that you see when, when artists start first start working with you?

Matt: Absolutely. But first, I, I gotta give a shout out to Logan Thomas. He was one of our first success stories. I mean, that guy, he's, he just, you know, he gets it and he's a, you know, hardworking, talented dude. So he, he's the reason why we're talking today. So shout out to Logan. But speaking of that, that's it's mindset.

So it's funny that you mentioned that 80/20 principles, that's one of the things that we get right into in the mindset section. It's like, if you can visualize your years worth of gigs, right. Look at it on a calendar and you, you figure you, you probably have to do 150, 200 gigs to make a certain amount of income so that you can cover all your expenses and, you know, versus if, if you were to cut that down to a third or a fourth and make more money, I mean, that, that's when it, like the 80/20 principle I'm sure you've talked about it.

You know, in your podcast, but anyone that's unfamiliar, it's, it's basically like the small percentage of things that yield the biggest results, right? It's all about leverage, essentially. And so if you, for, with, with the gigs finding, finding the ones that will pay you, you know, a premium versus trying to go out and fill your calendar.

I think like the biggest mistake coming in is a lot of performers have this kind of scarcity mentality, and it's like, I have to take, I can't say no to anything I have to say yes to, to it all. Even if it means, you know, I'm going to basically break even on a gig. You know, I'm getting like a sandwich and a beer, you know, like, you can say no, and it's actually better to say no and focus on that like 20%.

That's gonna yield, you know, 80% of your results. So, you know, it's, it's that mindset. And I think what happens is when the performers come in and they start to get that first win or two, they're like, oh, wow. Wow. Yes. Now I see it. 'cause it's like reading a book on how to swim. You can read all the books on swimming, but if you don't get in the water, And, and experience it and learn, you know, how to float and how to do you, you can't swim.

So it's the same thing. Once they start seeing it in action and, and they're getting the gigs and they're getting paid, but it's like, oh, oh yeah, okay. That, that's really where the mindset, the mindset shift happens. So,

Michael: Awesome. I love that analogy. Learning the theory, the theory of how to test swim versus actually doing it, being in the water.

So, so maybe you could describe a little bit about, you know, sort of the the things that people can relate to. You know, basically like as it relates to, Playing, you know, bar gigs, playing restaurant gigs or sort of the experience that, that they're having, you know, what are some of the, the main challenges that come with that, with those perfect types of gigs?

Versus like, what's the contrast or what's like the difference between, you know, having more premium gigs, like in terms of quality of, you know, not just like the, the pay, but also maybe like the quality of the shows themselves mm-hmm. Or the value that they're providing.

Matt: Yeah. So, I know you know this through your program, you talk about like high ticket clients or, or things that you can offer.

Right. And I think the, like, big misconception is people assume that the more someone is paying you, the more micromanaging or the more they're gonna want for you, or their expectations are gonna be. So it's, it's actually the opposite. It's like, I find when you go in and do like a hundred dollars bar gig, that's when you have the manager asking like, well, how many people did you text?

How many people are coming out tonight? You know, your break was five minutes too long versus, you know, just last week playing a show, getting paid $2,000 to come perform at someone's house. They were so grateful for me to be there. They were just like, and you know, forget the money. It's just, yeah, the quality, the way that you're treated.

It's like, you know, almost like you are some kind of celebrity. They can't express their gratitude enough that that's the kind of thing you feel like they're throwing the party and you're actually a guest there. You know, it's like if you had a rider that said, you know, I need to, you know, this specific.

You know, chicken done this way and, you know, no Brown M&M's you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's, that's the treatment you get. Like, would you like anything to drink? Would you like, make sure that you get some food? We, you know, that kind of thing. Like, I love, it's so, it's this night and day from Yeah, the bar restaurant kind of grind.

So that's the biggest thing. And, and then what I find is too a lot of these events seem to be. Like big moments in people's lives, whether that be anniversaries or birthdays or, or weddings or, or whatever it is. So, so you had a part in that special moment. And that in itself is just really gratifying too to be a part of that and see like the joy that you're bringing to someone's, you know, big life you know, milestone moment.

Mm-hmm.

Michael: Yeah. That's, that's beautiful or super well articulated and y you know, the I, I can relate a lot with what you're describing around these specific kinds of concerts or, or private performances and the experience and the value of, you know, when, when someone. You know, if you did one, a free bar gig, you're playing the show and people aren't really paying attention, it doesn't seem like people really care.

Whereas the house concert or the private concert, you show up and you mentioned like, it's almost like celebrity status or it's sort of like, you know, people are so excited, they get so much more value, they're more, so much more grateful. You know, it's, it's interesting. You know, there, there's that phrase it's like, I heard it in like the digital marketing circles, I think for the first time, but you know, that people vote with their dollars.

It was a phrase, people vote with their dollars and you know that, you know, the Money is sort of like an a way to symbolize value. It's a way to objectify value as best as we can. And so, you know, if someone is willing to spend more money or invest more money, it's showing their what they value. And so mm-hmm.

Of course, someone who values you enough to, you know, to pay a thousand, $2,000 or more for a show. It is demonstrating that they care, it's demonstrating that they value Absolutely. That what you do is worth it. So I, I love, I love that, you know, you've been able to really help artists focus on, on that aspect and realize, The value.

Mm-hmm. The value of who they are and what, what they offer. Maybe you can speak to that a little bit in terms of, 'cause I'm sure that that's probably a big mindset issue for some people Yes. Is just fully understanding or realizing that what they're doing is valuable and that they do deserve, you know, to be able to, you know, offer their services for premium prices.

Matt: Yeah. It's really awesome to see. So in inside of our community I love when people share their wins and you, you see these. Definitely, like, I didn't think, you know, I could do X, Y, Z and here I am, you know, six months later. Yeah, that's, that's the kind of stuff that, that's why that's my favorite part is connecting with all these performers, you know, musicians and DJs because I get a boost, you know, a mood boost after interacting with them and seeing that.

And So, yeah, it's just like what I was saying before, you, you have to experience it to really change the mindset, and then once, once you, you start to feel more valued, then it's just easier to continue to grow your brand, raise your prices, and just really feel better about what it is that, that you're doing and, and feeling the value that you're providing.

Hmm.

Michael: Awesome. So, maybe we could talk a little bit about you, a friend, anyone who's here right now who, you know, maybe has been playing, playing shows, has been working really hard on, on their music, and they've been doing a lot of those, you know, bar gigs or restaurant gigs and taking anything they can for the sandwich or for the, you know, the free food.

Where do they get started? Like what's the, how do they start, you know, finding and get and seeing these opportunities for more premium gigs and, and yeah. Where, what's the first step?

Matt: The first step is to map out your customer's journey. So if I am, you know, if I'm gonna have a 50th birthday party, I'm gonna put, you know, a decent amount of planning into it.

And so I am most likely gonna do one of two things. I'm going to do an online search and see what's out there, or I'm gonna ask around like, who knows people. So, so it's like, you know, you're. Your Google presence or your word of mouth, right? Your referrals and your brand. So if you can map that out and really understand the process that people are going through to find entertainment for their event then, then you can, you can show up where you need to show up.

So, you know, for instance, if you just do a simple Google search on what it is you do, so you say like, I'm a wedding DJ, and type that in, you're gonna see. Some what you're gonna see ads for sure, and you're gonna see organic stuff, but you are, you're gonna keep seeing the same things pop up and you'll see lead platforms and that's a great place to start, you know, booking agents try to get into that mix two, but what we focus on is, you know, the DIY approach, how do you do this?

Because if you're working for a booking agent, you're not going to be able to make as much as doing this yourself. So, I think it's really important to map the customer journey to understand, you know, where it is that you need to be in order to, to be hired for these type of events. Hmm.

Michael: Super smart.

Yeah. There, you know, there's another phrase in the digital marketing world that's, you wanna enter, enter the mind of your customer, enter mm-hmm. Enter the conversation that's happening in their heads. And it seems like that's sort of a, a take on what you're saying right now in terms of mapping out their customer journey and getting in their shoes and understanding who they are and what are they going through when they're looking for what you offer.

Yeah. So as someone who, you know, obviously has a ton of experience, understanding, you know, the customers that you're serving and, and now, you know, sharing that process with other artists as well at a high level, like what does that customer journey look like? You mentioned, you know, maybe doing a online search.

Yeah. What are some of the, the kind of big pieces that an artist who's listening to this right now really needs to make sure that they have dialed in mm-hmm. To be able to start attracting some of these opportunities.

Matt: Okay, well, let's think about how we're, even if we're getting a referral, even if we're not doing an online search, we're we still need to see something, a presentation, right?

So your video, so we're gonna start with performance video. Mm-hmm. And what I think, you know, there's so many ways you can do that. You, you can do like the home studio clean recorded version. You can, you can do it live. But. Yeah, the main thing is you want to have something called a unique selling proposition, and essentially that's a way for you to not have to compete.

Like you can make the competition irrelevant if you have something that is, that you can offer to a client that serves their needs and, and really that's the biggest thing. It's what's in it for me. The me is your customer? Like, what, what, what are they looking for? What do they want? If you can demonstrate that thing in your video, then that's really, you know, what you wanna focus on.

Because I've never met you, I've never heard of you. I haven't seen you live. Maybe, maybe someone told me that you, were you really good and I got a referral, or maybe I found you online and you had a bunch of reviews, but still you, you have to. There's that kind of intangible quality that has to come through in those videos that say, okay, this is the person, this is exactly what I want.

And you put that potential customer, you, you, you put them in the event. Like you just make it easy for them when, when they're watching your performance videos to say, oh, this would be perfect for my party, my wedding, whatever it is. So, I, I kind of combined two things there. So the unique selling proposition, but it has to, but the video presentation that is really, I mean, without that, how, how are you gonna know you know, what someone does or, or, or, you know, they sound like or anything.

Michael: Mm-hmm. Mm. Super smart. Yeah. So, so it sounds like what you're saying is that one of the most important assets that you need to create is a good highlight video or a good video that can demonstrate, that can communicate what you offer and, and the service in a way that speaks to the customer and what they're, what they're looking for and demonstrates you know, that, that you have what it is that, that they're looking for.

Right. It's interesting in, in regards to like the unique selling proposition. What does that, what does that look like or in terms of like examples of like, a unique selling proposition for like a live performing artist. What are like some angles or some things that, that come to mind when you think of like a good.

Unique selling proposition if someone here is trying to you, I know it can be kinda hard for, for all of us to have perspective on ourselves and like, what is it that exactly, you know, makes me unique. Exactly. But yeah, how, how might someone start to uncover that and, and think about figuring out what is their unique selling proposition?

Matt: I think that the simplest way to do it is ask your fans, your customers, people that have come to your shows, people that have watched you perform. Find that common thread, what are they saying about you? And I think that's the best way too. But if you break down what is a unique selling proposition it's the appearance of uniqueness.

Okay? So we all perform, we all do certain things, but we want to appear. Unique to the client. I, I kind of, I get into this you know, in our free training, so we can, you can, we can discuss that more later. But the second thing is the, the relevance to the client, like I said, like what's in it for me?

Like, maybe, you know, you are an award-winning songwriter, but that might not be the thing that's relevant to the client. They, they may care more about like, how are you engaging with a crowd? Right. And then the last. Aspect of it is just, it has to be simple like an elevator pitch, you know, short and sweet.

So, a good example of one of our members who does live looping and can entertain, you know, crowds of like a couple hundred people just by himself. His is the, the one man band that can pack the dance floor all night. Like, that's really powerful because. It's super unique. I can't do that. It's really relevant to the client if they want to have, you know, like a wedding type reception environment or a corporate party where we want people to dance.

I know that this person can make that happen and I can save a little bit of money because I don't have to hire a whole band when this guy can do the same thing. So it's like, it's a lot of things rolled into that short statement that really like, If I'm looking for an entertainer, but I want to be live and I, and I want, you know, to, to be singing and doing things, but I wanna make sure that the energy is there like that, that's gonna win, right?

That's going to win every time. And I'm not gonna get that gig 'cause that's not, that's not my specialty. So I think you know, carving that out. And you know, like, so that specific example, try to apply that to your own brand. Ask your fans, ask the people that come to see you perform and try to find that common thread.

What are people saying about you? And, you know, use that, that three step format of the unique sell selling proposition. Then, Stand out.

Michael: Super smart. Yeah. And there, there's something so powerful about the art of asking and, and learning how to ask, especially the people that you're looking like your customers and your potential.

Mm-hmm. People you're looking to serve. Like those are definitely the best people, you know, to, to ask questions. And so you can understand them and you can, and you can, you know, quote unquote enter the conversation happening in their mind and do everything that, that you're talking about. How, how how would you recommend asking in, in terms of like framing it?

Like I'm, I'm sure, you know, if you ask a fan, a bystander, you know, what's, what's my unique selling proposition? They might be like, wait, what does that even mean exactly. So how, how would you recommend that? Like, artists kind of frame that question and if they are looking to get that feedback from their, their fans or their friends or family, or really whoever they have that knows their music right now.

Matt: Simple questions like why did you come see me perform? And then what, what did you like best about my performance and what makes my performance unique or special? But before you even ask like detailed questions, you just make sure you listen. 'cause you will probably get some gold like right off the bat, you know?

I. And so actively listen, you know, don't just wait for like the next question, like make sure that you're, because yeah, you might not even have to ask many questions to, to get some really good feedback.

Michael: Hmm. So good. Yeah, those questions are, are gold and yeah. Gosh. I mean, it just, it helps so much too, like getting that validation, that feedback as well, I'm sure like, you know, asking those, those questions, especially if you're early and you're starting out and you don't, you're not totally clear on, you know, What is, what it is your unique selling proposition?

What makes you unique and what's the value that you're giving to people? When you ask those questions, it kind of, it, it draws that out and it helps you understand it. And you know, I'm sure that's gonna be a big confidence booster and validation booster as well. Yeah, yeah.

Matt: You know, that's, never thought of it that way, but that's pretty cool.

Yeah, absolutely. 'cause I mean, you do want people, if you ask that, you know, what could I improve upon? You could do, look at that, but, You're, you're gonna get positive feedback and that's definitely gonna open your eyes to some things and maybe you didn't even realize that you are good at. So yeah, I can definitely see how that would, you know.

Bring up your confidence level too. That's, yeah. That's pretty cool. Mm-hmm.

Michael: You know, I think it was maybe Tony Robbins who presented this idea, and it's, you know, he's not just, he talks about this, but that the quality of your life is dictated, you know, primarily by the quality of the questions that you ask.

And so if you're asking questions internally, like the voice in the head is like, you know, why, why does this always happen to me? Like, you know, why, why, why does, why does the world hate me? You know, like if we take like a victim mindset, then we're asking questions and, and when we ask questions like, We get answers and our mind crafts, you know, answers to the questions that, that we ask.

And so, you know, our ability to actually ask the right questions to ourselves and to other people can, you know, hugely dictate the experience both for you and the other people. You know, if you ask people, I. You know, on the flip side, if you ask people like, yeah, what did you really not like about my presentation?

Or like, what was like, the worst part of it? Yeah. Then they're probably gonna walk away and, and they're going to be remembering like, oh yeah, like, you know, there's this thing and this thing that like, I didn't really like or there's X, Y, Z. Versus just by asking 'em that question, like what was your favorite part?

What made it unique? You know, that's going to also. Create a better experience for them. It's gonna help them remember and take away, you know, some of the best, you know, pieces of, of what you offered. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting.

Matt: Absolutely. And even just framing, like, you don't have to be negative.

Like, what did you just, Hey, what, you know, what could I improve upon that is such a better way to frame that question versus like, almost like planning this assumption that there was something wrong. Like it wasn't any, 'cause a lot of times they'll go nothing. I, I honestly can't think of anything like I.

Get that feedback a lot, you know? So that, that's cool, you know, but yeah, I, I do, I it is all in the framing for sure.

Michael: Yeah. And, and that is, I mean, that is such a, a valuable question to ask, you know, what what can I improve upon? Yeah. And, you know, it takes a certain amount of confidence, I think, or the ability to, I.

You know, to, to take constructive feedback without taking it personally. So,

Matt: oh, that's, oh, that's everything man. That's everything.

Michael: Yeah. Maybe we could talk a little bit about that too. 'cause like, that is such a core, like almost like a human level foundational skill to develop is the art of, you know, learning and being able to take constructive feedback, not personally, but, but grow from it.

Yeah. While also being able to distinguish between you know, not all feedback is, You should take completely to heart and say like, I'm gonna change everything about everything I do because of this one person. Exactly. So yeah. How, how do you recommend that people use constructive feedback and, and approach those types of conversations?

Matt: I wish I had a great answer for that because I feel like it's just a continuous process that we all go through, right? But if. You don't have some kind of buffer and separation from the feedback you will get swept up in either, you know, positive or, or negative. You know, I mean, you can, you can fill your head with a lot of, you know, things that aren't necessarily true, that could be positive or negative.

So, I wish I could. I wish I could tell you. 'cause I was like, I have that figured out. What, what I have learned myself is the more that I look at what I'm doing as a business and less of just me, Matt Santry, I can separate that like, oh, you didn't like this one thing. That was your feedback about the business of what I did.

I don't have to take that personally versus like mm-hmm. You know, you suck. And we've all gotten that through our careers. Some point somebody told us we sucked, and that's just part of life, you know? And that hurts, right? And, and no one wants to hear that, but I've found that, yeah, this like treating this entity as a business, I don't know.

I nothing is for everyone, right? Like we all have our preferences, you know? And. You can like chocolate ice cream and I can like vanilla ice cream and that's totally fine. Or we don't like ice cream at all and you know, prefer whatever. That's not like something that you need to take to heart emotionally.

And so I think view the, yeah, viewing yourself as a business, even if it's your own name, right, as a performer, being able to like take that step back and say, well, that's not necessarily me. You know, that, that it's my name on the brand, but it, this is my business and not everyone. This isn't for everyone.

So that's okay. And that's what's helped for me def just that separation. So, Hmm. Hopefully that's helpful to people.

Michael: Yeah. It's, it's super smart. Yeah. It sounds like what, what you're saying is that it's important to be able to separate your identity from the feedback and your identity mm-hmm. From Yes. Your business.

Exactly. And you know, I, I never read this book, but I've heard the book come up quite a few times in like different conversations around like growth, growth mindset. I forget what the name of the author was, but the book was all about growth mindset, I think. Sounds, sounds right, and name, know, have an audiobook.

Yeah. It might've even like called growth mindset or something. Yes. I'm sure if you Google like growth mindset. Yeah. I think it's called the growth. Okay. But, but I remember like the main takeaway was sort of about what you were just describing, which was that what she found through a lot of studies and and research was that the people who were able to, you know, achieve the most success and, and, and create a fulfilled life were people who were able to.

Grow And who, and specifically like the, the big contrast or big difference was that they didn't identify themselves as like a fixed entity or a fixed Yes, exactly. Like, like they realized that they could, they could evolve, they could grow, they could change, and that you know, if they made a mistake or if they failed in some way that it wasn't a reflection of, of their identity.

But it was just something that they could learn from and that they could use to grow. And it kinda reminds me of, of what you just described around not taking things personally, not identifying with them, but you know, if someone truly thinks that they're, they're a fixed, you have a fixed identity and that can't evolve or can't grow, then when you get negative feedback, then you, you have to rationalize why the other person's wrong or else it kind of cuts down your ego, like it cuts down your identity.

Totally. But, It does seem like a superpower to learn how to how to observe and how to, you know, get space to get space, to be able to take that in and take what's valuable and, you know, leave, leave the rest.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely. I think you, you nailed it and it's like, it's not like something you achieve either.

It's a practice, it's just a part of your life. So, absolutely. I agree with that a hundred percent. I'm just, I'm picking up my phone 'cause I have it on Audible, it's called Mindset and it's, yeah, it's Carol Dweck. D W E C K. If anyone wants to check that out.

Michael: Awesome. Cool. Yeah, I, I personally haven't read the book, but I've heard great things about it, so it's prob it probably is a worthwhile one.

Cool. Do you have any experience with related to that, like getting perspective, getting space not taking things personally meditation as a practice uhhuh, absolute. It seems like it's been

Matt: really helpful for I was actually gonna gonna bring that up. Yeah. Yes. Because. Go ahead.

Michael: Oh yeah, I was just, I was gonna ask you know, for anyone who's here right now who either has like meditation practice or has thought about it or you know, is, is curious about meditation what, what does your practice look like or what would you recommend for people?

I know this is a little bit tangential to some of the stuff we're talking about with like, booking gigs, but, you know, you talked about it at the beginning, the mindset. It is exactly really

Matt: important. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I'm gonna say like 2014 I think it was, I, I discovered The Headspace app, and I committed to that for a, a year of doing it every day.

And I didn't achieve every day, but I got pretty close and, and it really did help a lot of things. I just discovered Sam Harris's waking up app, which is pretty cool because there's also like theory lessons in there too. So I just started with that. Because I, my meditation practice, I've kind of fallen off the wagon recently and I, I'm like, I wanna get back into it.

I'm, I'm trying something new. But I think most importantly is just like, setting aside at least 10 minutes to do it. And I think why you even brought this up is because it's in line with what we were just talking about, kind of that separation of yourself, like your identity and you and, and all these things.

It's When you can witness your thoughts and witness your emotions, then it's a lot easier to just kinda let them pass versus like, I guess the best analogy I heard was like the storm. You can be outside in it getting rained on, or you can watch it from inside your house through the window and experience it in a different way.

It's still there. You're not controlling it, you're not making it go away, but you can, you can witness it. Without being taken by it, so. Mm-hmm. We're getting really deep here. I like

Michael: it. That's, that's great. No, that's, that's super powerful. I, I like that analogy too with the, the storm and, and I've heard kinda like, yeah.

The clouds passing by sort of analogy before. Yeah. It's interesting you bring up Sam Harris. He's, he's come up a few times in conversations recently mostly around like, free will conversations and that's, that's the whole rabbit hole of that. We'll circle back around to me for ano another conversation, but.

But yeah, it, it does, it does seem like, that practice of learning to observe and, and seeing, you know, the voice in the head doing its thing and how it, it's generally we tend to identify with it. We just think it's who we are. We think that the voice is us, but yeah, you know, if you do sit down and you just, you, you observe it like, You realize, man, like that thing is just, it's just going like the mind, like, you know, it's not something that, that we're, you know, consciously, you know, thinking all of the thoughts.

Like they just, it just happen. But it does allow you to get more perspective, to be able to kinda reclaim, reclaim the owner seat a little bit. When you can take a step back and you can observe what's actually happening in, in your mind.

Matt: Absolutely. Yeah.

Michael: Cool. Well, hey, Matt, this has been, this has been awesome.

I, I love conversations like this. I feel like we touched on some, you know, super, super practical and, and valuable business advice around, you know, the 80/20 rule and, you know, focusing on providing more value and serving people and, and getting into the, the head of your customer, understanding where they're coming from, their journey so you can show up in the right place.

I was like, you starting to build some of the assets, you know, required in order to, you know, in order to communicate who you are and the value that, that you offer to those, those customers. So, yeah, I know you mentioned, so first of all, thank you again so much for coming on here and sharing some of your lessons and, and advice.

And I know you had mentioned that you actually have a free training that walks through in more details, some of the specifics or on the roadmap, how to, you know, get started and. Build, you know, performance business like this. So maybe you could share a little bit about what that free training looks like and, and how to join.

Yeah,

Matt: absolutely. So essentially talked about it throughout this interview in, in the pieces like I. Step one, mapping the customer journey. Step two, developing that unique selling proposition. And then I guess the third piece that I didn't talk about that's in the training is, is list building, you know?

Mm-hmm. And that's, that's essentially like a proactive way to create word of mouth. Mm-hmm. You know, create, you know, a referral network. So, so yeah, that, that's the last piece. And that's really where, you know, the snowball effect happens and how. We see members break six figures annually, which is, which is really awesome.

So that's all in the, the training. I'll put a link, I'll make a special link for Modern Musician, the community, and you guys can check it out. I guess it'll be in the description of the podcast here.

Michael: I'll do. Yeah. Like always will for easy access. We'll, we'll put all the links in the, in the show notes and, cool.

And thank you for, for putting that together and, and just in general for, you know, for sharing the, the lessons and what you've learned. You know, this is very clearly something that you've done for yourself and it takes, you know, a huge amount of. Work and energy and learning what doesn't work and learn things, some things that, that work.

And so it's great that, you know, not only did you go through the challenges to make this happen for yourself, but now you're actually able to share this and help other people with it. It's pretty, pretty awesome. So appreciate the, the work that you're doing.

Matt: Thank you so much. Yeah, I really appreciate being here today and I love that we went off topic and got creative and.

A little bit spiritual and a little bit

Michael: that's what's what the music space is all about. Right? Exactly. Yeah. Its, it's all in good. That was super fun. Awesome. Cool. Well, yeah, like, like always we're gonna put all the links in the show notes and Matt, it's great, great connecting and looking forward to our next conversation.

Matt: Thank you, Michael.

Michael: Yeah. Woo.