Michael Laskow:
Starting up a music entity is like starting a small business, and marketing has to be a key piece of it. I've always said if you've got $10,000 to go make your recording, go spend five grand and save five grand. Read every marketing book you can get your hands on and understand that you're just one of hundreds of millions of pieces of music, maybe billions out there. How is anybody going to find you? Who's your potential audience? Where do they hang out? Where do they congregate? How old are they? Are they male or female? Yeah. People just assume, and I understand it, that their music is so good and their family and friends all love it. Why wouldn't everybody love it? But if they don't hear it, know it exists, how can they love it?

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry, with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. But I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician, and it's slowly getting better. If you have high quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month, without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry, and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.
All right, I'm excited to be here today with Michael Laskow. So Michael has been helping songwriters, artists, and composers succeed in the music business since 1974. I was born in 1991, so that means that he was in the game making stuff happen for decades before I was even born, which is awesome.
I spent thousands of hours in the studio working with artists like Neil Young, Crosby Stills, Eric Clapton, many others. And he founded TAXI, which you've probably heard of if you're in the music industry, which is the world's first independent A&R company. They founded it in 1992, and they help independent artists, songwriters, and composers land indie and major record label deals, publishing deals, song cuts, and countless sync placements and TV shows, films, TV commercials, trailers, video games. Basically, it's just an opportunity platform for you to be able to connect with people who want your music.
So my thought today would be an awesome opportunity to be able to connect with him, and do a deep dive on as a musician, especially as an independent musician, what are some key factors that are going to allow you to be able to actually get your music placed in those opportunities that you can find on TAXI? So Michael, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Michael Laskow:
My pleasure. Excuse me. That's great. Let's have a burp on the first answer. Thanks for having me, Michael.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. So I would love to start out with hearing a little bit about your story and how you got started with TAXI. It sounds like you have a lot of experience in the music industry.

Michael Laskow:
All goes back to The Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show. 1964. I was nine years old, saw them on the show. And turned around, said to my parents, "That's what I want to do when I grow up." Held onto the dream and then eventually let go of it. Went to college, thought I was going to be an attorney. Stumbled into a major recording studio in Miami called Criteria Recording Studios. Pestered the guy who owned it until he gave me a job, low man on the totem pole. And I worked my way up from there.
So having worked with a bunch of major artists in my career and learning obviously the craft of engineering and the craft of production. But the etiquette of dealing with artists, the psychology of working with artists.
But in between the big records with the Neil Youngs of the world, I would work with local artists. Sometimes they would come in and do really high level demos of incredibly good music and then they're like, "Well, what do I do with it?" They couldn't get it to an A&R person at a major label. They couldn't afford to put on their own records back way before CD's, vinyl was still a big thing. The internet didn't exist.
I made records for a long time, then got into doing audio post-production at a very high level in New York City, and then ended up in LA running a big post-production company in Hollywood. And one day I just went, "I miss working with those independent musicians." Nothing was more satisfying than, sorry. Nothing-

Michael Walker:
I should also mention that this is pre-recorded, not live or anything. So usually I'll burp, I'll say something stupid. We'll be able to edit it out. Don't worry about any like that.

Michael Laskow:
So I realized how much I enjoyed that moment when a baby band would cut their first rhythm track, and get a keeper, and come in the control room for a playback. The look on their faces, the goosebumps they experienced gave me such joy in being able to deliver a great product to them. And it was always heartbreaking that they could never do anything with it. I felt guilty taking their money to do the sessions knowing that they would hit a dead end. So I always kept it in the back of my mind, "Be cool if somebody solved that problem."
I was working at a large post-production company, general manager of the company in probably mid to late 1991. Didn't love my boss to be honest. And I flashed back on working with those indie artists and one day I just said, "You know what, I'm walking away from a six figure job with a company BMW." I had an apartment in LA, an apartment in New York, offices on both coasts living the life. And I just gambled it all on this thing called TAXI.
Had the idea in a flash. Wrote a business plan in, I don't know, 24 to 48 hours of barely getting up from the computer. Got funded for the startup about a week later from one of my oldest, dearest friends in the world who had an incredible set of balls that he would give me a big wash of cash to start. It wasn't that big, but it was tens of thousands of dollars to start the company with. And that was late 1991 the decision was made to do it, and we officially became a company in early 1992. Out of a one bedroom apartment, and here we are.

Michael Walker:
That's so cool. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, and we were talking a little bit backstage just about this process of starting from humble beginnings and working your way up. And it does seem like so much of the game is just showing up and putting yourself out there, putting yourself in the right place at the right time, and then being willing to work hard and level up from there.

Michael Laskow:
Yeah. Most people have the dream. And when they realize how much work it takes to actually achieve the dream, it's like, "Yeah, there are a million excuses why it didn't work out for me." But the main reason is they walked off the field before the game was over.

Michael Walker:
Absolutely. So now having had the experience of both working with so many artists in terms of production and working on their music, and having that aha moment where you realize, "Gosh, there's so much good music, but there's this gap between them being able to fully utilize it."
It's interesting because that's you kind of similar to how it is nowadays. Even with the internet and even with the social media, the ability to actually reach out. There's so much talented music that doesn't really get seen or doesn't connect with people. I'd be curious to hear your perspective on what are some of the biggest mistakes or challenges that you see musicians struggling with right now when it comes to getting their music that they've invested so much time and energy, and their craft into actually heard, and getting it placed on different opportunities for TV and film?

Michael Laskow:
I'm searching for exactly the right words, because I want to get this right in a short sentence. It's because they believe in their own music so strongly and think so highly of their own music, which they should, that they think that everybody else is going to hear it and see it the way they do. And just because it's great music, people are going to find them. Just like I thought having a great idea for a company like TAXI, everybody would beat a path to my door.
Starting up a music entity is like starting a small business, and marketing has to be a key piece of it. I've always said if you've got $10,000 to go make your recording, go spend five grand, and save five grand. Read every marketing book you can get your hands on and understand that you're just one of hundreds of millions of pieces of music, maybe billions out there. How is anybody going to find you? Who's your potential audience? Where do they hang out? Where do they congregate? How old are they? Are they male or female?
People just assume, and I understand it. That their music is so good and their family and friends all love it. Why wouldn't everybody love it? But if they don't hear it know it exists, how can they love it?
So I'm going to be completely candid here. There are a few people online right now that are in a weird way competing with TAXI. They're selling lists of music supervisors, list of production music libraries. It's like, "Why would you need a company that acts as a middleman when you can do this yourself?" And it's true, you can do it yourself. But do you have the wherewithal, the time wherewithal, the financial wherewithal, the skills to do that? So that's why I started TAXI. And just by coincidence under a pile of stuff here on my desk, I don't know if it's not going to show up.

Michael Walker:
Best way.

Michael Laskow:
Yeah, we sent this brochure for 15 years back when we were still mailing paper brochures. "TAXI is the second best way to get a record publishing or film and TV deal." And you open it up and the very first paragraph says, "The best way is do it yourself." However, if you have a family, a mortgage, a job, all the grownup responsibilities that most people have in life, you may not have the time to do all the businessy stuff that is necessary to build a career for yourself. And that's the problem I was solving with TAXI.
What about somebody who's talented and has the technical capability with a home studio, which almost everybody has now? But yet they don't know how to write a good email, or they don't know what a good subject line is that's going to get somebody to open that email. A lot of people think, "I'm going to send them 10 songs, put my best one last to leave them with a great impression." They'll never get to the last one unless the first one is amazing. So all those little mistakes, that's the market that I wanted to serve with TAXI. And here we are 31 years later.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. I love that brochure. The second best way. If I saw that, I would be like, "I need to read this. What's the angle here?"

Michael Laskow:
Yeah, what's the first best? Everybody wants to know that. And you know what? I learned that from a TAXI member named Sig Rosenblum, who I believe has passed away. But he was one of those old school New York City direct mail copywriters and he called me one day and said, "Your marketing's not that good, can I help you?" And I flew to New York the next day, spent eight hours sitting in a booth at a restaurant with him. And he was the one that encouraged me to spend all my time on writing great headlines. So he inspired me to write that. Thank you Sig.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. The headline is just such a powerful leverage point. It's one of the first things you see. It can either hook you, it can either bring you in, or not. Same thing with email subject lines.
So it sounds like what you're saying is that one of the biggest challenges that musicians are struggling with nowadays is you invest so much time, and energy, and passion into your music, and should be proud of it. But it's not enough to just have the music. If all you do is make the music, it's not a case of build it and they will come. But you actually have to figure out how to get the music in front of the right people, and how to connect with people that are actually going to resonate with it. You can't necessarily assume they're just going to come to you, but you actually need to get good at marketing.

Michael Laskow:
You can't learn it from a five-minute video on YouTube. It's a lifelong pursuit as you well know.

Michael Walker:
Yeah. How many marketing books have you read now?

Michael Laskow:
Over 800. I'm scared about that publicly, but it is, it's over 800.

Michael Walker:
I mean, nothing to be embarrassed about there. That's a testament to what you've built and your success. And the analogy sheet that we use for artists sometimes that totally goes in line with this idea you're talking about is that if you want to build a fire. And in the analogy, your songs are sort of like the logs for the fire. Then it's great to have really good fuel, to have really good logs for the fire. But if all you do is put the logs in the fire pit and sit next to it, then nothing's going to happen, because the fire doesn't just magically start. Every once in a while maybe you'll hear a story about lightning strikes and it's just lucky, but that's not really something you can rely on. And it sounds like what you're saying is you need to figure out how to drive traffic or how to generate the flames, how to generate the spark. Because it's not enough just to have the logs, but you actually need a way to generate the fire at the same time.

Michael Laskow:
You need a match, you need kindling, you need lighter fluid, you need all those things. Because you're right. Interesting that you use the lightning striking analogy. I think most people are so confident in their music, that they believe lightning will strike for them. Even though they know statistically it's one in a million for everybody else. "But not for me. My music's awesome." And again, I understand that. If they didn't believe in their own music, then that would be pretty sad. But lightning ain't going to strike.

Michael Walker:
Absolutely, yeah. And it's so much easier, it's so much more reliable. You can do things in a more predictable way if you're not relying on the lightning, but instead you're learning how to generate the flames. And it seems like what you've built with TAXI is this fire of opportunities already exist. And you're saying you can either go build your own fire, you can spend all this time and energy kind of crafting your fire. If you have the time and energy to do that, awesome. Or, you can find a fire that's already going. And if you put your logs next to that fire, then it's a way to be able to leverage this existing community and relationships, and be able to start your fire in a quicker way.

Michael Laskow:
Yeah. If you started out today as somebody brand new to it and you had the music done, and let's say you wanted to get it into a production music library with a music licensing company or a music supervisor. There's so many things to consider. It's like where are they at in their cycle? Let's say you make instrumental dramedy cues, kind of like the snaking around, peeking in windows stuff. little staccato string things.
It's used all the time. You could reach out to 100 libraries, 100 production music libraries, or 100 music supervisors. You would have to reach out to a big number of them to find out, "Do you need dramedy music today right now? Because you could have the world's greatest dramedy and send it out to all those people, which would take an enormous amount of time just to figure out who they are and then get it out to them."But if they don't need it, it would be like me sending you, "I'm going to send you a 50 caliber machine gun." I'm pretty sure you don't need one. Maybe you do. I don't know your neighbors. But it's like it could be the best 50 caliber machine gun in the world. But if it's something that you would never use or have no need for, why?
So that's what TAXI does is we've developed 31 years of relationships with people all over the industry. Whether it's record labels, publishing companies, music supervisors, etc. And they tell us when they need something specific. So we do all that legwork, and then we also teach our members how to be better business people, how to deliver stuff on time, how to not leave five seconds of dead air at the beginning of a piece of music, which a lot of people do. How to get your meta tagging done right so that your music is easily findable in a search. All these myriad things that go into success. It's not merely about is the music great.
That's a given. That's the foundation for everything is the music's got to be really good, and then you have to make all these other things happen in order for it to get heard, and get used, and get you a check, which is the ultimate goal I think.

Michael Walker:
All right, let's take a quick break from the podcast. So I can tell you about a free special offer that we're doing right now exclusively for our podcast listeners. So if you get a ton of value from the show, but you want to take your music career to the next level, connect with the community of driven musicians, and connect with the music mentors directly that we have on this podcast. or if you just want to know the best way to market your music and grow an audience right now, then this is going to be perfect for you.
So right now, we're offering a free two-week trial to our MusicMentor coaching program. And if you sign up in the show notes below, you're going to get access to our entire MusicMentor content vault for free. The vault's organized into four different content builders. The first being the music, then the artist, the fans. And last but not least, the business.
When you sign up, you'll unlock our best in-depth masterclass from a network of world-class musicians and industry experts, on the most cutting edge strategies right now for growing your music business. On top of that, you'll get access to our weekly live masterminds where our highest level modern musician coaches teach you exactly what they're doing to make an income in an impact with their music.
Then once a month, we're going to have our MusicMentor Spotlight series. And that's what we're going to bring on some of the world's biggest and best artist coaches and successful musicians to teach you what's working right now. And one of the most amazing parts is that you can get your questions answered live by these top level music mentors. So a lot of the people that you hear right here on the podcast, they're live interacting with you personally. So imagine being able to connect with them directly. On top of all that, you'll get access to our private MusicMentor community.
And this is definitely one of my favorite parts of MusicMentor, and maybe the most valuable, is that you're going to have this community where you can network with other artists, and link up, collaborate, ask questions, get support, and discuss everything related to your music career. So if you're curious and you want to take advantage of the free trial, then go click on the link in the show notes right now, you can sign up for free. From there, you can check out all of the amazing content, connect with the community, sign up for the live masterclass that happen every week. This is a gift for listen to our podcast supporting the show, so don't miss it out. Go sign up for free now, and let's get back to our interview.
That totally makes sense. So it sounds like what you're saying is that the music is really the baseline. And you do need the great music in order to be competitive. But again, just like the logs aren't enough by themselves, you need to figure out a way to generate flames, or put it next to a fire that's already going in order to actually light your own fire.
So having had so much experience now seeing which artists get selected for opportunities on TAXI, and seeing which artists have struggled, and which artists aren't getting selected, I'm curious if you've noticed any patterns, or if you see any common mistakes when it comes to artists submitting music, specifically for TV and film perhaps. Do you have any tips for them when it comes to being selected for those opportunities?

Michael Laskow:
If we're talking songs, let's talk about songs first, and then maybe hit on instrumentals. So songs, most people confuse great music with usable music. So let's say you are a guitar shredding kind of person, and you do incredibly good Joe Satriani kind of stuff. And you found a music supervisor. You Googled Hollywood music supervisors. "Look. Here's a guy working on a movie right now," which timing is everything.
But let's assume that your luck was good. This person's working on a film right now. They're in post-production. They're getting ready to put music in. They've probably had several spotting sessions and meetings with the music supervisor and the film's director and producer. And you go, "Well, they're in post-production. They need music. I'm going to send them my latest shred, whatever my latest song is with me just standing up there with my chest out."
The movie is about a horrible relationship between a father and a son. And the dad died four days ago, and the son just went and buried his dad today. And the scene is the kid doing the lash shovel of dirt on the grave, and then he gets in the black Cadillac, and he rides back to the family's house, and he goes up into his bedroom. He's sitting on the edge of the bed with his face buried in his hands thinking, "There's so much I wanted to say to my dad. So many regrets that I have." What kind of music goes there? It sure isn't Joe Satriani. I'm hearing music now. You're playing, okay.

Michael Walker:
I had tears. What kind of music goes there? I was just adding a little bit of-

Michael Laskow:
You're exactly right, but that made the point. Which is you don't need Joe Satriani. People would raise an eyebrow and go, "What the heck was that?" You need something that's somber, and regretful, and a certain amount of introspection, and makes you get a lump in your throat. And really feel for this kid that he didn't get a chance to say goodbye or the things that he needed to say to his dad.
So again, you could have music that makes Joe Satriani look like he's just starting out. You are a better guitar player and better songwriter than Joe Satriani or whomever. But they're not going to rewrite the script, they're not going to re-shoot the scene, and they're not going to re-edit the movie because they heard a great guitar song like that. They're looking for something that accomplishes all those emotional and scenic aspects of that scene.

Michael Walker:
That's totally makes sense. Yes.

Michael Laskow:
So that was from the songwriter's perspective. If I may, I'd like to address it from the instrumental perspective. A lot of people don't know that there's a difference between an instrumental and an instrumental cue. An instrumental is basically laid out more like a song, where it's probably got an intro, and a verse, and a chorus, and a bridge, and a chorus. Typical song elements probably in a similar order that you would find those things in, but it doesn't have a lead vocal. And because it doesn't have a lead vocal, it is now without a melody. So it sounds kind of like a rhythm track without a melody, and it sounds a little empty.
So then people try and put in the entire melody that the vocal would've done with a lead instrument. Whether it's a saxophone, or a guitar, or whatever, and it ends up sounding like 101 strings doing a cover of Yesterday by The Beatles. It just doesn't sound very good. Sounds like elevator music.
So people who want to take an instrumental and make it film and TV friendly would do what I call melody light. Maybe just hitting a note or two of the melody at the beginning of the bar, each bar, but not the full melody. Just enough to give it a little forward movement, momentum. And by the way, typically instrumentals are typically two to three and a half minutes long, give or take.
An instrumental cue is music that is specifically written for film and TV. It's not written in the same form as an instrumental or a song would be. And typically, it's all one section, an A section. Which more often than not is somewhat reflective of what the chorus would be in a song.
It doesn't have a 30-second intro. It might have a boom right into it, a little drum turn at the beginning, or a couple of little grace notes, or something. But right into here's what it is.
And then four bars later, couple more instruments are added. Four bars later, a couple more instruments are added. And that's how an instrumental queue develops what we call a developmental arc. It keeps moving forward and keeps growing until it doesn't. Then it drops back down and goes skinny again with just a couple of basic instruments. And then you build it back up again, and you build, and you build, and you build. And you end it on a buttoned ending or a stinger ending, which is. So it makes it easy for the editor to cut.
So it's a whole different animal. Yes, they are both instrumentals without a vocal, but they are different. So people making great music need to know these things. Otherwise, they'll see, "A director is looking for an instrumental cue for this TV show or a movie." And they will take their song that is on their album that they did five years ago, pressed up 500 CDs of disc makers, sold 25 of them. And they're going to try and find another way to monetize those sessions by stripping out the vocals, sending it in to that director for the movie. >But it's not in the right form. Therefore, it's unusable. So I hope I answered the question.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, that's super helpful. So it sounds like what you're saying is that an instrumental, just purely stripping out the lead vocal can be helpful sometimes. But a lot of times, it's even more helpful if you can create a version of the song that's an instrumental cue. Which instead of 30 seconds of kind of building up or loose space, it actually goes directly into the chorus into an A section, and it kind of builds up over time.
So in your experience, if artists are looking to write instrumental cues for syncing them into TV and film, do they generally have the best luck by sitting down and specifically deciding, "You know what, let's write instrumental cues. Let's just write a bunch of different ideas for these and let's be intentional about writing them that way." Or do you find that a lot of artists will take their existing songs and kind of skip to the chorus, and create a different version of it based on those existing songs?

Michael Laskow:
Fitting a square peg in a round hole usually doesn't work. When you're taking existing stuff and trying to edit it, or remix it, or modify it in some way to make it work for film and TV, rarely works.
Honestly, the most successful TAXI members, which maybe answers your question even more directly. Our most successful members actually write to the requests that we get from the industry. And I know your listeners might be going, "Oh my gosh, I wouldn't have the ability to." Somebody's looking for mid to uptempo pop rock, acoustic pop rock instrumentals that sound like you might hear on HGTV when they do the, "And here's your new home reveal." Something light, and uplifting, and happy, and revelatory, hoping that you've got something. And people will go, "Well, this could be seen like that. I think I could make it work for that."
It won't. Being able to write to that and knowing that you would use mostly major chords in a certain tempo range, and this instrumentation works well for that. Those are all the things that you kind of need to learn in order to really do well in the film and TV industry. And, you need the speed to turn things around quickly because it's not like, "Can you get me this for my movie in nine months?" It's usually, "Can you get me this in 48 hours, or in two weeks, or a month at the outside?"
So learning how to interpret the need, be realistic in how you're interpreting the need. Don't, "Well I know they're asking for this, but I really do that better." So I'm going to send them that. They're going to hear how incredibly good I am at doing that thing. And they're again, going to change the scene or change the script, or edit the movie.
I use the shoe store analogy. I sold shoes when I was a teenager. Somebody comes in and says, "I need a ladies' size 7.5B pump with a three and a half inch heel in beige." And I bring out a Bass Weejuns Penny Loafer in cordovan 9.5D, the lady would look at me and rightfully go, "That's a great looking shoe, but not what I need because I needed a lady shoe in a seven 7.5B. This is 9.5D." Blah, blah, blah.
Same thing, film and TV. Just give them what they ask for it. It's so much more productive and dramatically increases your chances of having success if you're simply giving people what they need, because that's what they write checks for.

Michael Walker:
That totally makes sense. Yeah. So it sounds like what you're saying is when someone makes a request or when they're looking for something specifically, instead of trying to mold and fit something that's not really what they're looking for, and trying to make it into what they're looking for. If you're able to really sit with the request and figure out how you can craft the music specifically for it, then that's really the people who are having the most success on TAXI, and being able to serve that need for the people who are asking for it.

Michael Laskow:
Yeah. And they figure things out. Like if they prefer to do a lot of hip hop cues, which we get a lot of requests for. Almost every reality show has some form of hip hop cues in it. Very popular.
Once you figure out what your kick drum sound is, and your snare, and your high hats, and your synth pads, and what have you, keep templates of that stuff. You don't need to reinvent the wheel every time. You need to reinvent the mood. I need dark moody hip hop, or I need uplifting anthemic hip hop, or I need hip hop that would be really good for a sports highlight thing. Or I need hip hop for a scene where there's just been a drive-by shooting and the bad guys are driving away. You can still use those same sounds and that same templated session in your DAW, and just change the chords and change the melody, to change the feel, and the emotion, and the ultimate use. So these are the little tricks of the trade that our successful members have learned over time. And frankly, it's a lot of what we do at TAXI. Which is guys, it's not just about making great music. It's about making the right music at the right time, that is also great.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Super smart. And it seems like for a lot of musicians who are maybe at a point where they're looking at wanting to improve their craft or they're looking at improving their chops with production, this would be a great opportunity to explore different styles of music, and doing it in a way that's actually based on a need and based on what people are actually asking for.
And then like you said, having those templates, having those sessions, you might stumble across some sounds or across some instruments that you love working with. And then if you want to create an original song, now you have more experience, and you have these templates and the sessions set up so you can actually create different songs based on what you've created to serve the need in the first place.

Michael Laskow:
Yeah.

Michael Walker:
Very cool.

Michael Laskow:
It's quite simple, but most people just don't know about it.

Michael Walker:
It's interesting too. Because I'm sure you could spend a lot of time and a lot of energy trying to, like you said, fit a square peg in a round hole. And having that ability to actually listen, and see what's needed, and how can I serve the need that people are asking for. Seems like that's just a magic skill or mindset to take in any industry, when it comes to any business. You listen, you figure out what's the need? Where can I serve? Where can I serve here? And you've essentially created a megaphone for artists to be able to listen and be like, "What is the need?" Because there's a bunch of people asking, and they're saying exactly what they need. What a cool resource.

Michael Laskow:
And we give them references beyond just the written description, which are quite specific. Basically, any music supervisor that's come in contact with TAXI, they'd look at our briefs and go, "Wow, you guys write better briefs than I've ever seen anywhere before. So much detail in it." And we give references. So, "Okay you don't understand the difference between West Coast hip hop and East Coast hip hop, or old school and contemporary stuff. Listen to the references, and make the decision. Can I do this? Am I competent enough in this genre, or am I close in other genres that it wouldn't be much of a stretch for me to do that sort of thing?" You've got it right in front of you. It's literally a roadmap with a giant red arrow going, "Do this, do this."

Michael Walker:
Cool. It reminds me of when I was first learning how to produce music for our band, I would do these recreations of popular songs. And I would basically just load the song into the session, and I would try to recreate the song as closely as possible as I could, with the existing instruments that I had.
And it wasn't perfect, and I couldn't get back to the original song. But after I did that, I would have these sessions with these instruments, and with the ability to be able to use these in different ways.
And really, that was one of the best ways that I grew from not being able to produce music at all to in a short amount of time, being able to produce music at a pretty competent level. And so it seems like that's a great again, like you said, a roadmap to be able to have references, and be able to take pieces of what's working right now, and be able to make them your own. So really cool.
So maybe you could share a little bit more about TAXI. And if you have any other tips for anyone who... Again, you've had a lot of experience being able to see which opportunities are chosen, which artists are having the most success. And it seems like the ones who are most adaptive, who are able to listen and be able to present that is one key. Do you have any other piece of advice or keys that you've seen help that kind of separate the artists who are the most successful, versus the ones who've struggled?

Michael Laskow:
Work ethic obviously. If you submit three things a year and go, "Man, I can't believe it. I signed up for TAXI and didn't get a deal." Well, three submissions is not going to get you a deal. And some people might see that as, "Laskow's trying to get people to make a lot of submissions." Well, any of our successful members, and there are literally thousands of them, would all tell you the same thing. In that, once again, the music is a given. But it's a numbers game. The more at bats you have, the more chances you have of hitting a home run, or even a ground ball that gets you to first. But if you're not standing up there with a bat on your shoulder and taking the swing, you can't have success. So that's number one probably is just being in it on a regular basis.
As a matter of fact, reaching for a prop. Our members came up with this slogan, and it became a bumper sticker that they give out to each other at our convention, The Road Rally, and it says, "Write, submit, forget and repeat." In other words, write it, submit it, forget you made the submission, and move on to the next thing. Just keep cranking them out and then repeat. Obviously it's a play on words from wash, rinse, and repeat. So being productive is one.
Working in a genre that's often used and you are competent in is a really good place to be. Not a lot of requests for Joe Satriani kind of stuff, or Steve Vai kind of stuff. Because a lot of busy guitar stuff in there that's in an EQ range or a part of the spectrum that competes with the human voice. So those things don't get used all that often in film and TV, because they compete with the human voice. So while you might be really good at doing that style, it's a style that's probably not going to make you a lot of money.
So then look inside yourself and go, "Okay, well I've got really good guitar chops." What genre of music gets used a lot that requires good guitar chops? Well, basic hard rock gets used a lot for sports TV promos, so you could adapt. You used the A-word about a minute ago, you said something about adaptability, I believe. And that's part of it. It's like, "Okay, well this is what I normally do, but I could also do that. And there's a market for that." So identifying a market that you are competent in goes a very, very, very long way. Those are probably my best two pieces of advice. Do it on the regular, and do what people need that you're good at.

Michael Walker:
Super smart. Yeah, there was a study that I heard of with a teacher who did an experiment with their school room, where they split the room into two different sections. And it was a pottery class. And they wanted to see which section would get the best quality pots by the end of the semester.
And with side A, they said, "You have as much time as you want, but you have this one pot that you're going to craft." And then with side B, they said, "You can craft as many pots as you want, but you want to do as quickly as possible." And at the end of the semester, they compared the two different sides. And this one had spent all of their time, all of the energy just trying to perfect this one perfect pot. And the other one was just exactly what you said, rinse and repeat. They just kept doing it over and over again. They created the pot, they forgot it, they kept going. And it was night and day. It wasn't even close. By the end of it, the students who had improved the most, the ones who had the best pots by far in terms of quality, were the ones who had been through the iterations many, many, many more times. They had created a ton of pots. And through doing that, had kind of crafted their skill.
So it sounds like what you just said was really a testament to that idea of you get better, that quality. You have to step up to the plate in order to be able to hit a ball. But every single time you do that, you're going to be honing your craft. And that's a much better way to do it than just trying to perfect your one-

Michael Laskow:
One thing for a year. Fail fast, fail often. And you'll get better with every failure. And you will have a lot of failures. We do have maybe 3% of our members or something get lucky. Or for whatever stars align for them, have success early in their memberships. The vast majority of people, it takes time. They have to fail a lot. And they hold it against TAXI. "Your screeners, they wouldn't know a good piece of music, it jumped up and bit them on the butt." Or, "The people you forwarded it to in the industry didn't reach out to me. Clearly they don't know what good music is." No, it wasn't something that they could use to make their thing better or make money with. Otherwise trust me, they would've reached out to you. So you just have to keep swinging at the ball. And eventually, you're going to get good enough that you're going to hit home runs.
And after you hit one, you go, "Okay, I remember the speed I swung at. I remember where the bat was, what level the bat was at." And all that stuff becomes ingrained and becomes part of muscle memory essentially. And it's repeatable. And then you can do it faster and more often. We've got members that are making six figure incomes working eight to 12 hours a day, doing what I affectionately call stupid little instrumental cues, that you might hear on a reality show like The Bachelor, or The Kardashians, or HGTV. "Look at that new kitchen."
And they got there. The first year, maybe they made nothing. Second year, maybe two or $300. But they smelled blood in the water. "I made a couple hundred bucks. Not enough to be life changing, but I did get paid." And the next year, they make 2,200, and the year after that they make 18,000. The year after that, they make 40,000. The year after that, they make 21,000. Maybe they had a slow year, or the market changed, or something.
But those are the people that eventually get to that six figure goal, which I've always been a huge fan of musicians should be able to earn a living like a plumber, an electrician, a computer programmer. Anybody else that has a skill. Why don't musicians get paid equivalently for their skill?
Well, there is a way. But creative people tend to think that their output is just so charming and so wonderful, that the world will beat a path to them. It's about giving the industry what it needs and doing it on a regular basis. And eventually, they will beat a path to you because you'll become their go-to person.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. So good. Awesome. Well hey Michael, thank you again so much for taking the time to come on here and share some of the lessons that you've learned. I feel like there's a good mix of both mindset and marketing wisdom that you've learned from 800 plus marketing books, of really being able to listen to the market, and listen to what people need, and be able to serve that. And also, a lot of practical tips to be able to make sure they can shorten the timeframe that they need in order to actually get selected for an opportunity. So thanks so much for the platform you've built, and coming on here and sharing some of the lessons that you've learned.
For anyone that's listening or watching this right now, if they're interested in learning more about TAXI or submitting for one of the opportunities, what would be the best place for them to go to learn more?

Michael Laskow:
Taxi.com. It's that simple.

Michael Walker:
Taxi.com.

Michael Laskow:
Four letters, and you're there.

Michael Walker:
No pun intended. Four letters and you're there. It's like TAXI, go from here to there.

Michael Laskow:
Well, that's why I came up with the name. I literally had the idea at 6:00 AM, and kicked my wife's foot under the cover, said, "I've got it, I've got it." I'm like, "Call the company TAXI." And she's like, "Why did you wake me up for that?" And I said, "Because it gets you from where you are to where want to go. And everybody knows the word." Turns out, it's one of only nine words on the planet that is universal to almost every country on the planet earth.

Michael Walker:
Wow. That's interesting. I did not know that. Cool. All right. Well hey Michael, great connecting with you. I highly encourage anyone who hasn't checked out TAXI yet, we'll have the link in the show notes. You can go check it out, look at the opportunities. And whether you're using it as a platform to be able to hone your craft, and hone your skills, and get better at production based on what the market actually needs, or if you're really looking at doing this long term and you take Michael's advice, and you carve us in space and time to "create as many pots as possible" and submit as much as possible, I definitely encourage you to check it out and [inaudible 00:42:57] opportunities. And yeah Michael, thank you again for taking the time to be here today.

Michael Laskow:
Thank you for having me. And if I might add one very short thing, people can go to the website and sign up to get the daily emails that will tell them what the industry's looking for, whether they pay for the service or not. They can see what the industry needs, they can hear the examples, and they can use that whether they join TAXI or not. So there you go. Thanks again for having me, Michael.

Michael Walker:
Cool. Man, thank you for sharing that. What a cool resource. Because again, it's like the ability to be able to listen, the ability to be able to listen and actually hear and see what what's needed, how can I serve, is easily one of the most important things that really you need to be able to be successful in any market. You need to be able to understand what do people need. So the fact that you're serving that and you're letting people sign up for free to be able to get that is awesome. So cool. We got links in the show notes, and click on those for easy access. And until next time.
Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value at its episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today. And if you want to support the podcast, then there's a few ways to help us grow.
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