Tiamo: The way they treat you is, we've already talked about how they pay you. But I usually I'm backstage in a VIP lounge area and they're bringing me lunch, and they're covering all my costs, and they're treating me like a rock star. Meaning, they're just treating me with a lot of respect, and love, and appreciation, and gratitude. As an artist, I really appreciate that.

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry. With constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself, so you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music. We're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month, without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker: All right, so I'm super excited to be here with Tiamo de vEttori and today we're going to talk about KeyNote Concert, Tiamo's awesome. He has spoken to over 100,000 people at universities, seminars, music conferences, all over the world. He has performed on stage at the Jimmy Kimmel show, he's a number one best selling author, he's won the LA Music Awards, Singer-Songwriter of the year. San Diego's, Best Songwriter award. I knew he was an awesome guy when I first started talking with him and then when I peeled back the curtain, it was like he's done some really impressive things. Tiamo, thanks so much for taking the time to be here today.

Tiamo: Yeah. Thank you so much for having [inaudible 00:01:40]. Really excited about the juicy conversation we're about to have.

Michael Walker: Yeah. Today we're going to be talking about KeyNote Concerts. Which is basically like a connection between presentations like keynotes and inspirational motivational talks. And using your music to actually provide a unique spin on that experience. I would love to hear a little bit about your story and just how you got into this world of doing KeyNote Concerts?

Tiamo: Yeah. I'm going to share my very edited version, because otherwise my story would take up the entire interview. But really the way it happened for me is, I was your typical singer-songwriter who was really frustrated with the struggle. I was totally just sick and tired and exhausted of the coffee shop gigs, and the bars, and the clubs, and the hotels. Especially, promoting myself all the time, putting all my money into it. There is this precipice for me, where I just felt like I had to create a change. I knew that to create a change I had to do something different. What I ended up doing is, I looked at my gig calendar for the all the gigs I had scheduled for months out and I canceled all those gigs.

Tiamo: I decided instead that I was going to create this really big comeback concert. I gave myself six months to promote it and I knew that it had to be an epic venue, so I got booked on my dream venue that holds over 500 people. Because I canceled all my other gigs, I just committed to working every day on this one gig that was going to launch me in this new way of doing things. That's what I did, is I promoted this comeback concert every day, for six months. Even though I was really exhausted and tired from all the promotions of the past gigs, I felt like I was going to do these bigger venues. I was just motivated in a different way. I had some ideas around it, which I'm not going to go into now. But that really was the fire and the passion for me.

Tiamo: Then at one point, a couple of weeks before that gig, I recruited my top fans in San Diego. They really helped me in marketing the event and promoting it. I was outsourcing all of this to my top 20 fans in San Diego and so I had this wonderful support. Then leading up to the night of the big comeback concert, I'll never forget, I walked out on stage, this is something I had envisioned for months. I was visualizing giving a performance of a lifetime in front of this sold out crowd and the moment was there. I stood in front of the microphone and then I looked out into the audience and there are two people in the audience.

Tiamo: For me, it was like I was holding back tears. Which was just like years of frustration and exhaustion just welling up in me. I still performed my set and it's still to this day one of the best performance I've ever gave. Because, I decided to for those two people, that I was going to completely pour my heart into that set. But when I was done, I was just wiped out. I remember driving away and I was just completely in tears. I called my mom and I was yelling at the phone and I was like, I can't do this anymore and I quit. That night, I decided I would never feel that way again. And I stopped pursuing my music for about a year. I didn't even pick up my guitar for an entire year. And then something happened.

Tiamo: Because, I was really interested in some other areas at that time, especially because of how hurt I was with music. I was looking into speaking and some other things around personal development and entrepreneurship. So, I went to this seminar and I had this intuition that I should bring my guitar with me, so I did. Then I was at this, it was like a business seminar and it was huge. It was like 2,000 people there. I'm sitting in the audience of like 2,000 people. Then I had this inspiration come to me in the moment.

Tiamo: Now, normally, what happens is, when we get an inspiration, we talk ourselves out of it. The fear comes in, we're like, "You're going to look so stupid." Or we have fears of rejection or whatever it is. Like, don't do it. Before, I could talk myself out of it, I had got up from my seat and I went to the back of the room. Because, I knew that all the important people and decision makers hung out in the back of the room. My inspiration in that moment was that I realized that there was no live music going on at this conference. They kept playing all these hits and stuff like that and everything. It was just all tracks but there was no live music and it was all about inspiration. I was like, if I could get on that stage, I could provide live inspiration through the power of music and message and everything else. [inaudible 00:07:05] totally elevate the energy in this room.

Tiamo: I walked to the back of the room and I was totally terrified, but I was taking action anyway. I asked someone on the event team, who I needed to talk to, to get on stage. They told me who the person was and they said, "But he's hanging out in the VIP room right now." And I said, "Great, where's the VIP room?" They pointed it out not thinking I would actually roll up in there. I walked out of the event [inaudible 00:07:39], I'm looking for the VIP room. I found it and I just walked in there like I was a VIP and I introduced myself. I found him, who's basically the event organizer, and I talked to him. I asked him, I said, "Can I perform on your stage today?" Then he was like, totally laughed at me like I was crazy.

Tiamo: He said something like, "Do you realize how many speakers want to speak on my stage? They pay me 1,000s of dollars to speak on stage, I don't even know you, why would I have you on stage?" I said, "Well, I do something that none of them do." And he said, "What's that?" And I said, "Well, I combine storytelling with message and live music, because I'm a singer-songwriter." And he's like, "Wow, that's really interesting, what do you got?" I said, "If you can hang out here for a minute, I'm going to go grab my guitar and I'll show you." I go get my guitar and [inaudible 00:08:40] I told him a short story and he was really moved by it. Then I sang the song about that story. He's like, "This was amazing, can you be on stage after lunch?"

Michael Walker: Wow.

Tiamo: Yeah. Not only did he give me the opportunity to be on stage after lunch, but he gave me 20 minutes. Lunch was coming up, it was like the lunch break was an hour away. [inaudible 00:09:04] I'm getting mentally ready for this and I'm just buzzing with excitement. Everyone goes to lunch. And during the lunch break I'm doing my soundcheck and all that stuff. Then people come in from lunch and there I am on stage. As people are pouring into the room, this is my first experience ever, where I realize I'm in front of this huge instant sold out crowd. There's like 2,000 people here and I didn't have to do anything to get them here, like they're already here.

Tiamo: Just having that breakthrough on stage was just life changing for me. I was like, there must be other venues where I could get on stage and there would be 1,000s of people where I didn't have to do anything to get them there. And I just loved how that felt. Everyone comes back in the room and I tell my story and I sing my song. Towards the end the song like everyone's up and dancing and singing, and you could completely see the transformation in the room.

Tiamo: Afterwards, the whole event team is like, give me high fives and hugs. The event organizer was like, "That was amazing." And all that. Shortly after that, I realized that I could probably do this for a living. That's where I decided I could really go out and find all these venues, and there's probably 100s of conferences, and seminars, and conventions, where are they do this. And I could be on stage delivering what I now call KeyNote Concert, where I combine speaking with live music.

Tiamo: I also realized that they probably had really great conference budgets. I didn't know how much went into conference budgets. But I know it's like these massive hotels and how great they make the events, they must put a lot of money into it. And they must be able to pay their guest speakers a lot for it. Then I started pursuing the conference market and I started getting booked to do KeyNote Concert. Which I understood that the reason why people were booking me is because it was something different and unique. It was like an edutainment value.

Tiamo: I was teaching something through my stories and message. But then there was the entertainment piece, which was the live music, and getting people up and dancing, and having that whole inspiring dynamic for the conference. So, that's the value for them and it's something different. The event attendees are like, "God, I've never seen this before and thank God. [inaudible 00:11:46] another boring speaker, this was so fun, so amazing." That's what helped me to stand out. I started getting booked at all these conferences and the seminars. It was breathtaking, it was magical for me, because I've never been valued like that as a music artists. And I've never been paid like that, I never had exposure like that in front of these really big audiences.

Tiamo: It's like, I was going for my small coffee shop gigs and this story I told you of being in front of two people. To now being in front of hundreds and sometimes 1,000s of people, up to 15,000 people and having that experience. Every time just being like, I just had to show up, just me and my guitar. I didn't have to do anything else, it's unbelievable. What I started to experience firsthand is that they did have big conference budgets to pay me. Because, I was getting booked more and more, I eventually was making more money doing this than I was at my day job at the university.

Tiamo: In time, I left my job at the university to do this full time. The first month after leaving my university job, that's when I got that gig in front of 15,000 people, that was a corporate gig. I made almost $20,000 in that one month as an independent artist. I could see the trajectory of where this could go and I could see how empowering it was for me. Because, it was like I wasn't signed, it was just me. I didn't have any representation, I didn't have any of that stuff. It just combined everything that I love. Telling my stories about my songs and my original music. I can tell you, it's been years now and I only do my original songs.

Tiamo: Now, this doesn't mean that you can't do covers in this world, because you can. But because I'm a singer-songwriter, that's what inspires me, so I just do my original songs. I love that the audience are so engaged, they listen to every lyric, I feel like I am a rock star in that world. Not from an ego place, but from a place of really being cherished, and valued, and how I'm treated. I'm not treated like typical music artists are in a traditional music industry world. Which is so much about just disrespect and having to chase down people to get paid. We know all of that.

Tiamo: For me, it was just like, wow, I got to see of this is what it looks like and this is what it feels like to be so valued and celebrated for the power of my music. That's a much shorter version of the story. There's definitely some nuances, hopefully, that we can cover here to create more context. But when I discovered the conference world and doing KeyNote Concert, it was a total life changer for me. Which is why I'm really happy that we're having this conversation.

Michael Walker: Dude, man, thank you for sharing that, that is super inspiring. One thing that I'm picking up on, is that one of the extra benefits of getting really good and mastering the skill of doing these KeyNote Concert, is that you develop your public speaking ability and your storytelling ability. Because, you sharing that story, it was very gripping. I could tell that your experience was coming through there. Yeah, that's really awesome. I know now that you've taken what you've learned and what you've built, in terms of this market. For providing this service for conferences and different types of events, to give something unique to their audience and to breathe life into it.

Michael Walker: You've taken that and you've created your own community, where you're helping like musicians, you do these these kinds of concerts. One thing I'm curious about is, let's say that someone comes to you like a musician, and they're in the same boat that you're in. Where they're struggling with their original music and they want to dig into this world and learn more about it. What are some of the biggest challenges that they first come across when you start considering this? And what challenges are they facing when they first come to you?

Tiamo: One of the challenges is that they're so immersed in what I call the music industry matrix. That they don't see that there's this whole other possibility waiting for them. Most musicians, if not almost all, including me. Have been really burned, have been taken advantage of, and they feel like this can't actually be real. They enter the conversation with me, with a lot of doubt and skepticism. And negativity, unfortunately. Which I understand, music artists are so passionate and they've just been crushed so many times. It's like just having an open mind to this possibility and having an open heart around this whole other world.

Tiamo: The other part of it is mindset, the money mindset that musicians unfortunately have, that we've actually created. We have to be responsible for it, because as long as musicians continue playing for free, there will be a dominant free model. I get that musicians get upset, like I used to, about not getting paid to play. But if you're willing to play for free, this is how it's going to be. Musicians that come to me have this scarcity mindset around getting paid for their music. You can get paid for other things, that's cool, but not music, though. I can't get paid for that.

Michael Walker: Right.

Tiamo: There's definitely this tension and this resistance around the idea of getting paid a lot for your music, and asking for it, and knowing how, and standing by your feet, and all of those things. There's a lot of money mindset that they enter the conversation with. This needs a lot of help. Then the other part of it is, they get past those couple of things. They're like, "You know what Tiamo, no. I'm really excited about this, I would love to thrive with my music. I'm so open minded to it." Then it's great, so now we need to talk about the craft. Because, doing KeyNote Concert is not like your traditional music set. It's totally different.

Tiamo: Just their level of dedication and commitment to becoming good at that, is something that's really important. Then I would say, the other big one is... Yeah, it's like musicians hear this possibility and they get excited about it. But at the same time, they want to keep going with their free gigs. Or they're getting paid $100 a play at the bar or $200 a play at the hotel. It's like they're trying to grow this business while continuing to play for free at the bar again. Energetically, that doesn't work really well. It's like split energy, you're trying to step into this one like prosperous world, but you're still stuck in this scarcity world.

Tiamo: For me, it's like when I realized the full spectrum and the potential for how successful I could be with KeyNote Concert. I had to completely let go of all of my coffee shop gigs, all of my bar gigs, all of that. To then put myself and fully into that world. Those are probably three or four things and there's definitely others. A lot of influence in the music industry and just years and years of just people celebrating the grind. The grind is way over glorified, okay. You can keep doing the grind but I would much rather just do it this way. Musicians feel like there's this whole other possibility in them, then being really hungry for it, just like they're hungry for their own music.

Michael Walker: That's some really good stuff.

Tiamo: Thank you.

Michael Walker: To recap, it sounds like a few of the biggest challenges are, one, that there's a mindset issue with a lot of musicians. This has been here for a while, a starving artist mindset, when it comes to actually making money with your music. With a job, it's like, that makes sense. It's a job, it's made for money. But your music, for some reason, there's a big internal block to that. There's this holding on to that scarcity. Where do you think that comes from, how do you how do you let that go?

Tiamo: I think it comes from the mother of self sabotage, which is ego. What I mean is this, it's like it's so convenient for music artists to say, "Well, people don't pay musicians anymore." That means you don't have to work for it. And that means you can just keep doing it the same way and telling yourself, "Well, all people do now is stream live music for free, nobody plays musicians. That's the current model, deal with it, that's just how it is." Sorry, but that's self sabotage because there's another reality that I've had. Which is I sell more albums than I ever have. We've talked about some glimpses of what I get paid. But for me, it's like, yes.

Tiamo: In some audiences, in some outlets, people don't pay you anymore. What you need to do is you need to go find the people who do want to pay you, because they're out there. For me, it just feels like this self sabotaging conveniences to say, "Well, nobody pays for music anymore, so I'm just going to keep doing it for free." At the same time, resent the music industry and resent all the people who are not paying me, and all that stuff. It's just like, you have to get out of this whole hurricane, of thinking that everyone feeds off of each other. Musicians do that too.

Tiamo: I've seen so many times where musicians bond with each other over how broke they are and how much they're struggling. It's like, no, my story's sadder than yours, let me tell you about it. How do we actually empower ourselves to find this new different reality. Sometimes that means like, for a period, I stopped hanging out with musicians. It's not a judgmental thing, it was just like, look, I need to surround myself with people who think differently. I need mentors who think differently. I need people who embrace prosperity and making a difference in the world as well, all at the same time. I need to be around those people.

Tiamo: What I was finding is that, at least in my circle, I don't want to generalize. But in my circle, the musicians weren't those people might, my band mates weren't those people. In the past, my manager and my agent weren't those people. And there are also other people coming into the picture who were like really negative people. I had to go find my positive people, and I had to find my elevated people, and my conscious people, and my business mentors, and like all of that stuff, to really create that change. Musicians oftentimes feel like they can do this themselves and there's so many musicians who are lone wolf.

Tiamo: That's why there's an aspect of my community that I call the wolf pack. Because, we all collaborate, support, each other in growing our businesses. Not just my business, but our businesses. It's so important that musicians find communities like that; whether it's your community, whether it's my community, whatever it is, so that they don't feel like they're alone anymore. They're working with like minded, lighthearted musicians, who want to make an impact in the world and are tired of doing things the same way. We want a new real.

Michael Walker: Hello, what's up guys? So, quick intermission from the podcasts, I can tell you about an awesome free gift that I have for you. I wanted to share something that's not normally available to the public. They normally reserved for our $5,000 clients that we work professionally. This is a presentation called six steps to explode your fan base and make a profit with your music online. Specifically, we're going to walk through how to build a paid traffic automated funnel that's going to allow you to grow your fan base online. The system is designed to get you to your first $5,000 a month with your music.

Michael Walker: We've invested over $130,000 in the past year to test out different traffic sources and different offers, really see what's working right now for musicians. I think it's going to be hugely valuable for you. If that's something you're interested in, in the description there should be a little link that you can click on to go get that. The other thing I want to mention is, if you want to do us a huge favor. One thing that really makes a big difference early on when you're creating a new podcast is, if people click subscribe, then it basically lets the algorithm know that this is something that's new and noteworthy and that people actually want to hear. That'll help us reach a lot more people.

Michael Walker: If you're getting value from this and you get value from the free trainings, then if you can do us a favor, I'd really appreciate you clicking the subscribe button. All right, let's get back to the podcast. That's so important. One of my favorite quotes is that, I don't remember who said it, but that you're the summation of the five people that you spend the most of your time with. And so you need to be really careful with who your influences are and where you surround yourself with. It sounds like what you're saying is that your huge shift for you happened when you intentionally got a really clear on who are the people that I want to surround myself with.

Michael Walker: I think, unfortunately, it seems like there is this energetic scarcity that happens within the music industry. There's a reason that we have the whole starving artists mentality. There's a reason that what we're doing right now is happening. Because, there's a need and because it's coming up and it's being healed. But what that means is that, either you find a group of people that are ready to kind of raise to the next level. Or are already there, who are musicians themselves, or just like people in your environment who are already vibrating at that higher level and surround yourself with them. That's really one thing that helped you a lot.

Tiamo: Tremendously. Yeah. I had to find those people. But when they came into my world, it was like I realize the opportunity. Also, to come from service and see how I could support them and everything else, not trying to take. But just so eager to learn from them. And most of all, just to learn their mindset, like how did they think. For me, it was so new for me. Because, my background with getting paid a musician was just... Now, for me to get paid $10,000 for a KeyNote Concert gig is a lot easier than when I first sold my initial CD for $10. I had a harder time selling that CD for $10 because that's where I was. I had a harder time asking for $100 for a gig.

Tiamo: One little story around that is, back in my starving artists days, I got booked for a wedding in Portland and it was $400. I perform at the wedding and the bride and the wedding party, I don't know what was going on that night. But they're like, "Yeah, Tiamo get in the show with us and we're going to drive you to your hotel, but on the way we'll stop by an ATM and I'll pay you then." We stopped by the ATM and he's getting out and he's going to give me $400 cash. I said, "Nah, man, it's cool don't worry about it. You can just pay me later." He's like, "No, we stopped by the ATM so I can pay you now."

Tiamo: I'm like, "No, it's cool. I know everyone's going places, don't worry about you can just pay me later." That's where I was. I followed up with him two weeks later, and I didn't hear back, and I followed up a month later, I never heard back. I never got paid. When he was willing to just give me money right there, that's where I was. That's where, unfortunately, a lot of musicians are. Because, they feel like it's not normal to accept money. But in this world, you definitely have to be okay with it and so a lot of music musicians are not. But then it's like, how do you cross over to that place where you can be. Just open your mind to, can you be, can you feel [inaudible 00:29:09]?

Tiamo: Because, what I learned is that when people pay you, they pay attention. Now, if people pay me, especially they pay me a lot, everybody's paying attention. [inaudible 00:29:18] that's why we do music. Because, we do music to engage people. Whether it's entertain them, inspire them, whatever it is. If people aren't paying you, they're not paying attention, it's no accident. It's like, recently I was in Austin and I was walking down the main street there. It was at Fifth Avenue [inaudible 00:29:37]. It was like, every other bar was like musicians were background musicians.

Tiamo: If you're cool being a background musician, that's fine, I don't want to take that away from anyone. But most artists I talked to you don't want to be background resistance. It's like, well, you're a background musician because you're playing for $50. If you're playing for $5,000, trust me, You're not going to background musician. Okay. There's a big distinction there.

Michael Walker: It's a really good point. It reminds me of when I first started Modern Musician. When I was just getting started, I was in the mindset of like, I'm just getting started, I just want to do it for free. And God, it was so hard. It was so hard getting people as clients when I was offering it for free, it was so weird. Now that we charge on the high end of the market when we work with someone, you're right, they pay attention. They actually implement and they get results. The same thing with your music, if you're playing a free show, people haven't invested. It makes sense that there's that connection there. One of the things that I wanted to dig into a little bit, is this idea of being so uncomfortable making money. Do you think that that's coming out of a sense of self worth, not feeling like they don't deserve it, is that part of it? Or how do you like help people get to that point where they feel like they do deserve it?

Tiamo: Yeah. I feel like it comes from just centuries, like generations of a starving artists mentality that just weighs people down, and I think people just accepted it. But that can be said for a lot of industries. What we do to help people with that is, number one, show them how I've done it. Show them that there is this whole other reality you may not know about and I talk very openly about it. So that they see that, okay, there's hope. Then I train them on how to do it, so that they can experience it themselves. Because, it's one thing to hear about me doing it and it's another thing for you to go out and do it. Then get that first client that pays you a lot for your gift. And just be like, "Tiamo, oh my god, this whole time I wasn't sure. But then I went all in and I cannot believe."

Tiamo: That's one of my favorite things in the world, is when my students get their first high paying gig. And they're just like, they can't believe it. I mean, they're just totally blown away. Then the next conversation is, so you did this once, that means we could keep doing this, right. The great thing is you're going to keep getting better at it and you're going to be raising your fees. And you're going to be all of these things. Where then they experience it firsthand, it's so exhilarating. That is motivation enough to say, "I want to experience that again." And it's so fun for me to watch, which is why I do this.

Tiamo: I'm not doing this just for me to get my name out there in this world. It's like I'm doing this because I believe in the power of music. I want more musicians to be able to deliver their music, I want more musicians to change more lives, I want more musicians to save more lives. If more musicians are doing this, it motivates me so much to have these conversations, to teach from stage, to do webinars, to do retreats, to do events. All of that stuff so that musicians will see that this is real and they will hopefully be motivated to try it. Then once they try it and they get a new result, then it's like they're pursued after that is just really inspiring, because they've got a taste of it.

Michael Walker: Tiamo, thank you for sharing this and sharing this so openly. Because, I think you're right, for a lot of people... I mean, always, the first step is always awareness.

Tiamo: Yeah.

Michael Walker: Just being like, oh, this is a possibility, this is something that could happen. Then actually experiencing it firsthand for themselves, it becomes more real. For you, I'm sure you probably have gotten this before, where some people say, "If you have this career and you're doing it yourself, then why would you share it with other people, right? Wouldn't that dig into your business?" How do you respond to people usually if that's where they're coming from?

Tiamo: I love that question. I know that the people who are coming from that place are coming from a good place and they're curious. But for me it's a scarcity place. The question I get asked a lot is, why would you create your own competition? I believe in abundance, dude. I believe that the more that I share this knowledge, and the more successful artists are. And the more people that are being touched and inspired because of those artists, because we had that initial conversation. It means there's going to be a greater opportunity for me. I don't know where it's going to come from, but I'm not worried about, I'm not tracking it.

Tiamo: For me, it's really this global thinking of just really believing in the power of music. I'm not trying to keep this to myself, I know that some musicians like they find a good gig and they're just like, they don't want other people know about it. Because they don't want to lose the big gig. I've found a great gig and I want as many musicians to know about it as possible, and I don't feel threatened by it. Maybe some of that is my own confidence. I don't feel like because more musicians are going to be doing this now I'm going to be struggling. I let go of that struggling mentality a long time ago, so I'm not attached to this, I'm not worried to it, I'm inspired by it.

Tiamo: I want my students to have tremendous success. And you know what, even more than that, I want my students to be more successful than me. That would light me up. Yeah, I don't worried about that. I don't worry about it because, practically speaking, there's just so many gigs anyway. Mathematically, I'm not going to run out of gigs, because there's so many of them. As far as the conference world, there are 1,000s. Okay, they're not dozens of conferences, they're not even hundreds of conferences, there are 1,000s of conference gigs, where you could be doing KeyNote Concert.

Tiamo: Because I know that there's 1,000s of gigs, I'm not worried about it either. I know that they're not going to run out of money, they're just not. Their average conference budget is $1.7 million per conference. So, to pay me something like $10,000 for a KeyNote Concert's less than 1% of their budget. They're not even going to feel that.

Michael Walker: They're normally spending that much for other speakers too, ones that might be a lot more boring and not have as much to offer as you?

Tiamo: I know. Which is why when they find me, they're like, "Oh, this is so exciting." Because, they typically book the same type of speaker that has a really long, boring PowerPoint. They stand in front of a podium and everyone's trying to not fall asleep. It's like, I come in, I don't even have a PowerPoint. I'm like, ditch the podium, get that out of here. I'm just like, it's just me and I'm telling stories. I got the guitar and I'm singing my songs. And that's it, there's nothing beyond that. Something that I learned, as far as the craft of this, is that the better I got at telling my stories, the more I got booked, and the more I got paid.

Tiamo: You will get paid 1,000s of dollars to simply tell your stories about the songs. When I reflect on my coffee shop days, though people love the music. But a lot of times, the feedback I got from my fans was that their favorite part of my shows what the story's about the songs. People love knowing about your humanity, they love getting an inside look of your vulnerability. The things that you had to overcome, your adversity. Now, all these things, that's where people really connect with you. I started to understand the power of that and I started to put a lot of dedication, time and effort, into becoming a better storyteller.

Tiamo: Not one that just like, my stories don't connect and I keep rambling, that's how I used to do. When I was a singer-songwriter, I'd tell my story that go on and on. But when I realized there is a structure and there's an art form to telling stories, like song writing's an art form, like performing's an art form. As I made that concentration and I specialized in it, and I just immersed myself in storytelling, and then trying it out on stage. I became better at telling stories and then just singing my songs. Usually, when I do a KeyNote Concert, I tell three stories and I sing three songs.

Tiamo: That's it, no PowerPoint, no podium, none of that stuff. And people love it because they haven't seen it. Edutainment is a huge deal, especially in schools, we're talking about the high school market, we're talking about the college market. The corporate market is like, my god, we're bored out of our minds. Someone please give us something really dynamic, and exciting, and innovative. You talk to them about KeyNote Concert, you combine live music with speaking and in their eyes it's revolutionary. Then the audience is like, thank God, like you gave us something that was just really memorable.

Tiamo: Now, I've had so many times where I do conferences and then you're just like, they're up there and they're teaching. It's just like [inaudible 00:39:41] and then I do my thing and people are like, "That was the highlight of the conference, that was so memorable." Because of the emotions that evokes, right. The emotions that stories evokes, the emotions that music evokes, layer on top of it, and the singing, and the guitar. By the way, that's my format, I'm a singer-songwriter. It's just me and my guitar. I don't do the whole band, it's just me and my guitar. And they love the acoustic thing and all of that.

Tiamo: It could be a whole band if you want it to be. It could be that you don't play guitar, maybe you do piano, maybe you're an instrumentalist. You don't have to sing like I do. Maybe you're a vocalist, you don't play an instrument, then great sing acapella. Whatever you do, do it in your way. Stand up in front of a microphone and just move people with your voice. Or someone I know, who does this in this world, she plays the violin. She tells stories, she talks, she plays the violin, and that's it. People are blown away from the beauty of her violin.

Tiamo: There's another colleague of mine that does this, that gets paid more than I do in this world. She's on stage and she talks, she tells stories and she paints, so she paints as she's speaking. And then when she's done with the Keynote, she's got this completed painting, that then she gives as a gift to the company and they usually put it in their lobby or something like that. [inaudible 00:41:03] creative, creative is the next generation in this world. like, Corporations, associations, colleges, high schools, conventions, seminars, there's 1,000s of them. Anyone who's listening to this and you feel like you want something different, and you want audiences to be engaged.

Tiamo: You want them to, not only pay attention to your lyrics, but celebrate them, love them, and your stories and all of that. That's what this is about and it's not fancy. It's almost like an album you listen to that's overproduced. People really love just the unplugged album, or the live album, whatever. I've just learned more and more over time, it's about simplifying, it's about sharing my heart, it's about being transparent on stage. People they so love the stories about the songs, they feel really special and they view you as rock stars.

Tiamo: They view you like a KeyNote Concert rockstar. All right, so for me when I let go of like, I got to be famous, and I got to tour the world, and I got to have 1,000s of fans, and all that. If this happens on its own, for some of you, then great, awesome, I'm so happy for you. In the meantime, what are you going to do? For me, this is about having a very sustainable career, where our age doesn't matter. If we're talking about the music industry, I'm really old at this point. But if we're talking about this world, who cares? Can you get on stage and inspire people? That's all we care about. Right.

Tiamo: It's not relevant to age, the way they treat you, we've already talked about how they pay you. But I usually am backstage in like a VIP lounge area, and they're bringing me lunch, and they're covering all my costs, and they're treating me like a rock star. Meaning, they're just treating me with a lot of respect, and love, and appreciation, and gratitude. As an artist, I really appreciate that. Yeah, artists who are listening to this and you're still listening this and you're at least you're feeling called. Because, you know you're meant for more.

Tiamo: I know you're meant for more. I remember what it felt like to be like, God, I was born to do this. I'm like, this is my destiny, why is it so hard? Yes. Why is it going to be so hard to live my destiny. I'm telling you, the reason why you are listening to this right now is because your destiny led you to it. I hope there's a lot of people in this audience that are at least going to explore this possibility. Because, it's just so magical and so inspiring.

Michael Walker: Tiamo, again, thank you so much for sharing this. When you're talking with someone that, literally, every time you open your mouth another gold gem comes out about this specific field. When you talk about, you got into this world with business and entrepreneurship. It sounds like what this was, is you discovering a big need, right. A big place you could contribute value and that's something that a lot of musicians can do. Now you found another big need for musicians who you need to be able to generate income, need to be appreciated, and be able to get their music out there. And that's what you're doing for them.

Michael Walker: I appreciate you sharing your story. And I know that you have a lot of resources that are available to help musicians take this step and get into this world of booking these type of KeyNote Concert. Can you tell me a bit more about, if someone is listening to this and they're like, "This sounds really interesting and I do feel a calling. And I do want to explore what this world is all about." What would you recommend for them to get started?

Tiamo: Yeah, thank you for that. And there's something that, as you're talking, came to mind. That I want to share with everyone before we wrap things up, that's really important if they want to do KeyNote Concerts. If you don't do this then it's not going to happen for you. I can't leave you without telling you exactly what that is, because it's such an important distinction. Before I tell you what that is, thank you. As far as the resources, yes, I have a lot. I think the best resource for musicians is just how to get started with this. Instead of very advanced or accelerated resources, let's just start with something very easy and free.

Tiamo: I have a blueprint for you, which is a PDF, it's called Secret, High Paying Gigs. If you are really called to do KeyNote Concert, it gives you an overview of that, and what it looks like, and more detail, and it's comprehensive. It shows you how to get started with KeyNote Concert, doing the whole conference market. Then I have also some other things that I teach around custom songs. That's initially where I got a lot of my first high end clients as well. And private VIP concerts, which is like an add on experience, it's like an upgrade.

Tiamo: Companies or schools organizations who hire you for KeyNote Concert, that same day, after you do the keynote concert that that evening. Then sometimes I do a private VIP concert, where I get paid separately for that. But it's for a smaller, more exclusive, and intimate group. Then it's like basically two gigs in one day. Then also monetizing your fan base. Because, yeah, now when I perform at conferences, I can get more fans from one gig than it used to take a year of gigs for me to get. My average audience size is 500 people. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's a few thousand. But, yeah, it's a great average size. Every time I'm in front of those audiences, I have a system that I follow for, on average, half of those people will join my fan list.

Tiamo: If it's an audience of 2,000 people, that's a big jump in your fan list. It's like the amount of work it used to take me before to get 1,000 fans like, my God, I can't even express it. Yeah, as far as growing your fan base in a very organic, instantaneous way, is amazing. I also introduce people to that. Really, the arc of it is the KeyNote Concert, the custom songs, which maybe we'll talk about another time. But also private VIP concerts. Then when you get all these fans, how do you actually monetize your fan base, through monthly memberships.

Tiamo: It's an overview of those things and how to get started. Again, it's called Secret High Paying Gigs and it's a PDF. Then along with that is when you sign up to get the PDF, which you'll be sharing the link with them, then you'll also get a free bonus masterclass. Where I go into even more detail about how to do all of this. You get the PDF blueprint and you get the master class for free as well. That's my hope, that with these two resources, that anyone listening to this will take those first steps to get started in this world. So that you can really start growing your music business in ways that I believe are the most empowering.

Michael Walker: Amazing. It sounds you started, there's a PDF that has like five of the best strategies that you teach for free. We'll put that link in the description. Yeah, man, I just want to say again, thank you so much. This has been super valuable. Yeah, and I know you said that you have another lesson, like a really important thing [inaudible 00:49:10] get to that. There's this analogy that came to my mind as you've been speaking, that's like, I feel like right now it's like we're digging for gold. There's been a few topics that we brought up that have just been like ding, ding, ding, gold. It's like we're digging it out and I'm like, "Dude, there's so much gold under the surface I just want to keep digging." So that's awesome that you have these resources available to allow people to dig a little deeper and keep getting more gold.

Tiamo: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's my hope, is that I can leave gems and people can take them and get started with it. Then I love to hear stories of musicians going out and doing this, and like celebrating that, I just so love it. I want this to be like a new genre, I think that'd be amazing. When people talk about how musicians now are making money with their music, I would love this to be Mainstream now. Because, that means more music, artists are getting celebrated for their music. It means there's more fans, it means there's more people that are getting touched, moved and inspired by the music. I mean, the ripple effect is really beautiful. So, that's what I want.

Tiamo: Again, there is this ocean of opportunity. There are 5,200 conferences per day, not per week, not per month, 5,200 per day. Remember we talked about their average conference budget. We've talked a little bit about what a KeyNote Concert looks like. And the distinction that I want to share that I said was really important, is if you want to do KeyNote Concert, which my question is why in the world would you not after [inaudible 00:50:43]? But if you want to do KeyNote Concert, number one, I commend you for being open to it.

Tiamo: Number two, what you really need to know that's super important, is that if you approach companies, or schools, or organizations, to get booked for KeyNote Concert. Do not say that you're a musician. Now, I know that your musician ego may not like this. But if you can change one word around, it will completely change how you get paid. Instead of calling yourself a musician, just say that you're a speaker. Because, motivational speakers, keynote speakers, naturally demand a very high fee. When we think of the generations of the starving artists, we think, free.

Tiamo: We think, "Oh, [inaudible 00:51:36] play for free for good exposure." Or they'll play for very little for good exposure. But when we think the context of keynote speakers, we think 1,000s, right. It would be embarrassing to actually say to a speaker, "Yeah, I'll just have you do a keynote at our conference for free. Would you be good with that?" You wouldn't even entertain that idea, right. Because, it's just known, it's just common that speakers get paid 1,000s of dollars. Here's what I want you to do, is do your best to let go of your musician ego.

Tiamo: Now, I'm not saying you're changing anything, you're not giving up your music. You're not you're not... No, you're still doing that. When I do my set, I still view myself as a singer-songwriter. That's what I'm doing, I'm telling my stories, I'm singing my songs. But I approached them and I say, "I'm a speaker." Now, one word change, will go from... If you're a musician, maybe you get paid $250, maybe $500. Okay, but for a big company, but you'll go from that to then 1,000s of dollars. Because, you've said that you are a speaker and really what you are, is you're a hybrid speaker -musician. Okay.

Tiamo: That's something that I really wanted everyone to know and that's how you approach them. There's, of course, there's other details of the conversation and how you ask for your fee. I have some funny stories about that. But how you ask for your fee and other things, which that's just more my resources and my trainings. But for now, if you want to get started, I want you to make that one little tweak.

Michael Walker: Boom! Gold nugget, mic drop on the ground right where we're in. Awesome, that's great tip. Basically, that one small shift in the words that you use, so just presenting as a speaker can make a huge difference. In terms of the price that you can offer it for? Cool-

Tiamo: Like a world of difference. Yeah.

Michael Walker: Beautiful. [inaudible 00:53:42] Tiamo, dude, thank you again for taking the time to be here. Personally, for me, I'm listening this I'm like, "This is awesome, I want to go and do some keynote speakers."

Tiamo: Yeah.

Michael Walker: [inaudible 00:53:51] a little bit of speaking in business conferences. I brought my keyboard [inaudible 00:53:58] one of the times. It was just exactly like you're saying, people are like, "Whoa, you're so different." You come off stage and you just... They look at you differently and they treat you with respect. Like you're saying, you are a rock star. And it feels really good to be appreciated like that. I appreciate you for sharing this with our audience. And I would highly encourage that everyone goes and checks out the link that we put below this to learn more.

Tiamo: Thank you so much, I love being on. Thank you for what you're doing, thank you for your great questions, and hopefully it inspires a lot more [inaudible 00:54:38].

Michael Walker: Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a tone of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about the guest today. If you want to support the podcast, then there's a few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends on your social media and tag us, that really helps us out. And third, our best of all, you leave us an honest review. It's going to help us reach more musicians like you who want to take their music careers to the next level. The time to be a Modern Musician is now and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.