Logan Thomas:
But really, it just came down to cold calling, making those connections and kind of just forcing myself in the door. I didn't really have any connections. So it's just a matter of making those connections. You'd be surprised how many people actually are looking for musicians anyways. I think there is also this mental resistance of maybe feeling like you're annoying the people that you're contacting or something like that, but usually they're actually always looking for new musicians and are always happy to hear about new talent.

Michael Walker:
It's easy to get lost in today's music industry, with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician, and it's only getting better. If you have high quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month, without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution of today's music industry, and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

Michael Walker:
All right, so I'm here with my man, Logan Thomas. So Logan is a team member at Modern Musician and one of our quickly rising team leaders. And he really in the last year has grown from just joining the team to actually becoming the automation team leader, and then the team leader of our entire coaching staff. We have over 24 coaches now.

Michael Walker:
And he's also not just on our team. He's also an incredible musician himself, and he's had a lot of success from initially joining the program, implementing everything, and now being able to actually be a part of what we're doing and help other artists. And so really I wanted to bring him on here just to have a conversation, to discuss some of the things that he's working on, because he has some pretty smart strategies, too, around booking live gigs that he's doing. So I just thought it would be fun to bring him on and to share a little bit about what he is up to. So Logan, thanks for taking the time to be here today.

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, thank you for the awesome introduction. Appreciate it. Super excited to be here.

Michael Walker:
For sure, man. And also, congratulations on turning 26. He just had his birthday weekend. He's 26 years old. When I was 26 years old, that was only three years ago, so I mean, I guess I wasn't just like sucking on my thumb three years ago, but he's a pretty dang cool 26 year old. So to start out with, I'd love to just hear a little bit about your story with your music, and really, when we first met, why did you join our program? What made you decide that you wanted to make that leap?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah. Great question. So I think now that I have the perspective of working as a coach as well, I definitely see that everyone has a different starting point. For me personally, going to the program, I had done some online marketing in the past. So I had some basic knowledge of Facebook ads and stuff like that. And to me it was just the right thing at the right time. I had the basics, I knew a little bit about business and marketing, but I didn't really have a game plan to connect the dots.

Logan Thomas:
After watching some of your webinars, I just realized, hey, this is the blueprint I was looking for. Things just really clicked, and yeah, it resonated with me, a lot of the things you talked about in terms of traffic and just your analogies and summarized things in a way that no one else had really done for me. And it just made things click, and yeah, I just felt like I needed to get the full experience and watch all the webinars, reach out to some other past clients, rock stars like Eli Lev, who's also awesome.

Logan Thomas:
And yeah, just everyone had awesome things to say about Modern Musician. It was kind of a no brainer at that point. I had been following the, I don't think you had the podcast running at this point, but I'd been following all the webinars and the email list and stuff like that. So I'd been engaged for probably about a year or so before I actually ended up doing the program.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome, man. I love hearing about that. I remember when you first joined, because that was back when I was still doing all of the client onboarding with the one-on-one sessions, and part of that process is listening to your music and doing those initial momentum sessions before we figure out if we're a good fit to get things launched. And I remember listening to your music, like holy cow, this is fricking awesome. It kind of gave me John Mayer vibes. And our whole family was like dancing along to it. I'm like, yeah, this is awesome. So I'm glad, I'm super glad that you discovered us and that you attended the webinars and whatnot. And now you're just an important part of our team. It's super cool.

Michael Walker:
So I know that sometimes it's difficult to do this, because a lot has changed. A lot of this has transformed since then, but can you remember back to when, before you joined, what would you say was the biggest challenge or the biggest struggle that you were facing in your music career?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, I mean, I guess some kind of broad level, like I said, kind of connecting the dots. With the internet, there's so much information out there and you can learn anything, but it's really hard to figure out what's important to focus on. So I would say kind of a macro level, the main thing holding me back was having these little bits and pieces, but not really knowing how to fit it together.

Logan Thomas:
I guess getting more specific, I would say the problem was really just knowing how to retain people. Like I said, I had run some ads before, I had gotten some views on videos, and I felt pretty confident about how to get my music out there, but I didn't really know what to do from that point, which I think is such a key step and a big thing that Modern Musician focuses on that I really hadn't seen much before that.

Logan Thomas:
It was like, okay, once you get someone to listen to your music and they like it, what next? What happens next? And I think most people don't really have any idea what happens next. So they kind of just spin their wheels and do the same thing over and over, release a new album every year or two, and just hoping things pick up. So yeah, so that was the biggest issue, was knowing what the next step is and knowing how to actually turn someone from a listener into an actual fan.

Michael Walker:
Hmm. That's so good. Yeah, it reminds me of the, was it step number three, when we're talking about the rain catcher, right? Like building the rain through, making it rain, but you actually need to have that funnel, the rain catcher, to actually be able to convert a new listener and to build a deeper relationship with them and build a fan relationship. And don't even get me started about farmer Facebook right now. But if anyone's listening or watching this right now that's watched one of our webinars, then you are probably pretty familiar with farmer Facebook, but cool, man. So coming into the program, what would you say is your biggest goal that you're looking to accomplish?

Logan Thomas:
Really overall, I just, I wanted to get at least one sale. That was a very small goal, but I feel like that was the missing piece. Like, okay, I have people that say they like my music, but how do I get them to actually support me monetarily? So that was really my big goal with joining Modern Musician, was having all these bits and pieces of knowledge, like okay, how can I actually turn this into a business?

Logan Thomas:
And yeah, I mean, I definitely accomplished way more than that. That was a very small goal that I blew way past that easily. But that was really my main goal was like, okay, I have these traffic sources, I understand a little about running ads. So how do I actually turn that into sales and customers? So I think that was a big thing I got out of the program when I first went through it.

Michael Walker:
That's awesome. Yeah. So it sounds like really the biggest goal was coming into it, you had done a lot already. You'd done a lot of work and tried out some different digital marketing in order to grow, to get more new listeners. But then it was a matter of figuring out how do I build a deeper relationship with those people, actually turn them from listener to actual fan, continue to have a conversation with them, and then actually turn that into a business, actually make sales and make it profitable, make at least one sale.

Michael Walker:
So could you share roughly where you at right now in terms of a ballpark of coming in? Were you able to make your one sale? Where are things at right now in terms of your goals?

Logan Thomas:
Oh yeah. So that was more of the kind of thing where I knew if I could get one, I could get potentially an unlimited number. So I made, I'm not sure exactly how many in the three months going through the program initially. I think it was probably around like 40 to 50 sales total in my initial three months in the program. So way more than I had hoped for or expected. And I was super happy with that. And now it's, I have no idea the total number, but I'd say, I mean, now it's consistent.

Logan Thomas:
So every week I'm making sales and it's something that at the time was really cool, and it still is really cool, but like anything else, you kind of get used to it, almost take it for granted. So I try to remind myself when I ship out those merch orders, like, hey, this is something that I used to really hope and dream for, and now it's reality. And I try to keep that mindset every time that I get a new order.

Michael Walker:
That's super awesome. And yeah, I can definitely relate to ... Ain't that the darnedest thing? That's a really weird way to say it, but ain't it the darnedest thing that seems like no matter how far you get or however how much you achieve, there's always ... Actually, there's an artist I know that has a pretty good song that's all about this. It's called One More Chapter. It's kind of like, there's always one more [crosstalk 00:08:06] chapter, you know? It's one of Logan's songs. It's great. Definitely check it out.

Michael Walker:
But it's true. It's true. It's so important to reflect and to be grateful for the things that we have and to notice the progress that we've made. And I know that you've done a great job of that, as well. And I've seen you post in our Gold Artist community and share I think that you had done like $5,000 a month, you reached that initial goal, and then you were sharing that with other artists in the community. So it's awesome. It's really cool.

Michael Walker:
I guess the next question to dive into is, because I think that one thing I'd love talk with you about is some of the things that you've been doing around, we might even end up doing a bonus training or something for Gold Artist Academy. We talked a little bit about this, but around booking live gigs and actually having that as an additional source of revenue for you and your music, and also a way to hone your craft, to keep performing. So could you talk a little bit about your live booking process and what that looks like and how you got started with that?

Logan Thomas:
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, first thing I would want to say is I kind of look at it as two different markets for booking. There's the artist side of things. And then there's private event side of things where someone's hiring you to play music, not necessarily a venue hiring you to sell tickets. So I do focus more on the private events, and that means that I focus more on the service I'm providing more than focusing on selling tickets and getting people out to a show. So it definitely is a different type of approach to it.

Logan Thomas:
And with that being said, my process for booking those types of gigs, I do also want to say, for anyone who hasn't done this before, hasn't booked gigs and doesn't really know the difference, the upside to these private events is that even if you're not a household name or you're not super well known, you can make really good money if you have a solid service that you're providing. So it's something that you don't need to be at a certain level, I would say. I mean, obviously talent wise you do, but I think a big roadblock for people is feeling like, oh, I haven't reached X number of fans, therefore I'm not ready to play live. In the private event realm, that really doesn't apply as much.

Logan Thomas:
So I'd say the process I went through, there's definitely different phases. So I would say phase one was open mics, just getting out there anywhere I could play, not even worry about getting paid, just getting over the whether it's stage fright or just getting over, you know, sometimes I feel like you become a bedroom rock star and then you get on stage and it's like you have to get used to that feeling of actually playing in front of people. So I think open mics are great for that. But yeah, I'd say the first three to six months of when I decided to really start taking it seriously was open mics, really anything that I could get out and just do my thing for a few songs.

Logan Thomas:
Another thing I did was if I had friends that had a band that was playing somewhere, they might let me play on their break. They would take a 30 minute break. I might play a few songs. That was another great way to test the waters, see how people responded, that kind of thing. And once I felt confident with that side of things, feeling like okay, I have a solid list of songs that people enjoy, and I don't suck, people seem to like my music, then you go into the next phase, which is pretty much just cold calling.

Logan Thomas:
And I would call 20, 30, sometimes 50 venues a day. And I might hear back from like five. So if I could call 50 venues, get a call back from five, and book one, I would consider that a success. And it's definitely tedious. I mean, there's a whole other side of things as far as having a website, and I'm not going to get too deep into the logistics of how I made that work, but really it just came down to cold calling, making those connections and just forcing myself in the door. I didn't really have any connections, so it was just a matter of making those connections.

Logan Thomas:
I would say that's probably the hardest phase, where people get frustrated, is it's really hard to get that initial momentum, but then phase three, I would say, is once you start building a name, you get referrals, you go to the next venue and they might have heard of you, especially in smaller towns. Everyone kind of knows each other. I'm in a medium sized city, so I have the benefit of it being small enough that you can get your name out there, but also big enough that there's lots of opportunities. But yeah, that would be the third phase, is referrals. And you don't really have to look for gigs as much. They almost start coming to you.

Logan Thomas:
And then the final phase I would say is transitioning from the cold calling to the higher paying referral gigs. And this kind of gets into another duality where there's public and private events. And some of the public events, like I said, are the ones where you're selling tickets, but bars and restaurants [inaudible 00:12:10], that's not really the case. You can get those gigs pretty easily, but they're on the lower end of the pay scale.

Logan Thomas:
And really, the ultimate goal is to get to the point where you have an individual, whether it's weddings are a big one, there's also corporate event planners, that kind of thing, that have a higher budget, and that's where you can really get into long term sustainability of really having a business where you're providing a service, not just being a guy playing at the bar. But I think the main thing I learned was there's phases. And you can't really skip the phases. You have to do step one before step two. And it's a process, like anything else.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. Yeah, man, I love that. I feel like that was a really concise overview of the entire process. I mean, it was a huge opportunity. I mean, the way that you described it at the beginning, just giving people an understanding of the differences between this as a service versus them selling tickets. It is definitely a different ball game, but I do think that there's a lot of alignment. There's a lot of overlap there, where if you were able to book these shows, I mean, I think, what is it, the Beatles, they played every night at the same bar, I think. I remember hearing that that was really a big part of their growth process, was that they really honed their craft because they performed all the time for these kinds of gigs.

Michael Walker:
And I think for a lot of people, it's just a way to hone your craft. You get better at performing. And I do think that it's important to have a nice balance. So it's like you have the best of both worlds where you're doing this, and you're also focusing on building your own music career, original music, original artist. And I think that they do tie in together, but great way to generate an income that also can feed back into your marketing, your promotion, your recording for your original music, as well.

Michael Walker:
So if I understand you correctly, the first step is really about playing open mics and just finding these opportunities to perform, just to get the nerves out, start getting comfortable with performing. When it comes to finding open mics, how do you do that? What's the process?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, really, it was simple as just Googling my city open mics. There's a couple different websites out there. I think openmic.us is one of the websites. Yeah, there's plenty of directories that can help you find open mics in your city. So if you don't know anyone, just do a quick Google search. And then what happens is you go to your first one, you make some friends, and they tell you about the other ones around town. It's usually there's kind of a community around it, but yeah, really, it's pretty simple to just Google open mics, and insert city here, and you should be able to find some good places to get started.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Love it. So it's pretty straightforward. You just go to Google, you type in the name of your city, open mics, you can find somewhere you could start. Great way to also start building relationships with other artists. And that's how we started with Paradise Fears, too. We started by playing open mics. We played for our school coffeehouse. So I think there is a common trajectory for most successful artists. This is kind of where you get started. You start playing the open mics.

Michael Walker:
So then the next step was that you started doing cold outreach to actual venues, right? So you started reaching out to different venues. So when it comes to that process, what was your process like? Did you have a spreadsheet or a database or something where you just listed everyone's name and then you could keep track of who you had reached out to, or how did that work for you?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah. So I do want to hit on one quick thing that you just reminded me of, which is there is the cold outreach, but also as far as making those connections to open mics, probably what'll also happen is you meet some friends, and you might get a gig that way. Someone sees you at an open mic, that could be where that first gig comes from. So I wanted to clarify that, because that is also another thing that can happen.

Logan Thomas:
As far as the cold approach though, I'm a big spreadsheet geek. So yeah, I would Google. I kind of started with [inaudible 00:15:32]. So depending on how familiar you are with your city, you might know a few of the places that you've seen a guy playing guitar in the corner or something. So I'd say to start with the list of the places you know, find them online, see if you can find a phone number or an email. And as far as the approach, with the email, it's pretty straightforward. I can share my templates as far as exactly what I say, but really it comes down to providing value. So it's not like, "Hey, give me a gig." You want to make sure that you're conveying why you can provide value to them.

Logan Thomas:
So for me, that comes down to like, "Hey, I make this type of music. I think it could be a great fit for your clients or your atmosphere." So for example, if you're a pop singer, songwriter and you're reaching out to a venue that's known for hosting rock and hard metal, like hard rock and metal acts, that's probably not going to be a right fit. So that would be the kind of thing, like you do need to do your research and make sure that what you do is a good fit.

Logan Thomas:
But a lot of times, you'd be surprised how many people actually are looking for musicians anyways. I think there is also this mental resistance of maybe feeling like you're annoying the people that you're contacting or something like that. But usually they're actually always looking for new musicians and are always happy to hear about new talent. But yeah, as far as the approach, it really is tedious. Just make a list, find them online, phone number, email.

Logan Thomas:
Another quick note I would say is for the bar and restaurants and stuff like that, if you are going to call or go in person, definitely be aware of what time you're calling. So if it's a busy restaurant at like 6:00 PM on a Friday night, probably not a good time to go and give them your business card. Maybe Tuesday at 3:00 PM would be better. So you want to keep those things in mind. But really it's just, just put yourself out there. Most people just don't even get that far. So as long as you're friendly and a nice person to interact with, you'd be surprised how far you can get by just showing up and shaking hands with someone.

Michael Walker:
All right, let's take a quick break from the podcast so I can tell you about a free special offer they're doing right now, exclusively for our podcast listeners. So if you get a ton of value from the show, but you want to take your music career to the next level, connect with a community of driven musicians and connect with the music mentors directly that we have on this podcast, or if you just want to know the best way to market your music and grow an audience right now, then this is going to be perfect for you.

Michael Walker:
So right now we're offering a free two week trial to our MusicMentor coaching program. And if you sign up in the show notes below, you're going to get access to our entire MusicMentor content vault for free. The vault's organized into four different content pillars, the first being the music, then the artist, the fans, and last but not least, the business. When you sign up, you'll unlock our best in depth masterclasses from a network of world class musicians and industry experts on the most cutting edge strategies right now for growing your music business. On top of that, you'll get access to our weekly live masterminds where our highest level Modern Musician coaches teach you exactly what they're doing to make an income and an impact with their music.

Michael Walker:
Then once a month, we're going to have our MusicMentor spotlight series. And that's where we're going to bring on some of the world's biggest and best artist coaches and successful musicians to teach you what's working right now. And one of the most amazing parts is that you can get your questions answered live by these top level music mentors. So a lot of the people that you hear right here on the podcast are there live, interacting with you personally. So imagine being able to connect with them directly.

Michael Walker:
On top of all that, you'll get access to our private MusicMentor community. And this is definitely one of my favorite parts of MusicMentor, and maybe the most valuable, is that you're going to have this community where you can network with other artists and link up, collaborate, ask questions, get support, and discuss everything related to your music career.

Michael Walker:
So if you're curious and you want to take advantage of the free trial, then go click on the link in the show notes right now. You can sign up for free. From there, you can check out all of the amazing contents, connect with the community, and sign up for the live masterclasses that happen every week. This is a gift for listening to our podcast, supporting the show. So don't miss out. Go sign up for free now, and let's get back our interview.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Yeah, dude, we're definitely, after this interview, let's connect for a little bit and build out a really nice database system for people to have the template based on the system that you're walking through so that we can add that as a resource. Because I think that's a really, really powerful ... I know for us, with Modern Musician, even just doing our podcast and building this network of music mentors has really come from having this database and having this reach out process. And so I think it's super smart and it'd be great to create something like that for any of the artists who would benefit from it. Cool, man.

Michael Walker:
So let's talk about, you mentioned how it is really important to do your research. Make sure that you're finding the right venues, you're not just reaching out to someone who would be totally the wrong fit. How would you recommend that someone finds the right venues for their genre?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, so like I said, the main thing's to start with what you know, so there's probably at least like three or four places that you feel like, oh, I might be a good fit here. And that's a good place to start. After that, and this kind of goes back to also once you start attending open mics and meeting some other people, you're bound to meet other musicians that are at least somewhat similar to your style. So one thing that I found really helpful is connecting with those people on social media, especially the ones that are already out there gigging, and find where they're playing.

Logan Thomas:
So if you meet someone that's a gigging musician, their style is similar to yours, find out where they're playing. A lot of times, like Instagram, they might post their shows on there. If they have a website, they might have their show calendar there. But really just, that's a huge thing, is like, I don't want to say copying. Modeling is a better word, is find people that are similar to you, see what they're doing and just go to those places. And that's a really great way to make the research part a little easier instead of going in blind.

Michael Walker:
100%. Yeah. I just got back from Funnel Hacking Live, and the whole premise of Funnel Hacking and one of the lessons that they talk about a lot there is about modeling and how whenever you're doing something new or you're looking to acquire a skill or you're looking to take things to the next level, then it's the number one thing that you do first before anything else is you find the control. And that means finding who's currently doing this the best right now? Who's at the top of the game doing this right now? And you find what they're doing and you use that as your control. So you say, okay, this is my reference, this is my starting point. Then you think, okay, how can I experiment? How can I test it to actually try to beat this in my own way?

Michael Walker:
But you start with that control because there's so much goodness that comes out of that. They've likely spent a lot of time and energy already figuring things out. So you don't start from scratch. Start from the control. So it sounds like one of the best ways to really do this is to find those similar artists to you and see what venues are they playing. And then from there, it might even give you a little bit of an easy segue when you're reaching out to those people and saying, hey, you know, I'm actually friends with XYZ, and they perform there and I play similar music and I wanted to see if you guys were looking for any new artists, any new music to perform for the venue, or something like that.

Michael Walker:
So yeah, it does sound like, you know, that's the part too, where there is a certain amount of outreach and connecting with people. And that's something that if, depending on how outgoing you are, could be kind of scary, to get on the phone, but it's just an important thing to do. Do you have any sort of follow up process that you'd recommend for as you're going through and you reach out to these people? I guess it's something that we could probably help when we create that database. We could create that process of following up, as well. But do you have any tips or tricks when it comes to following up and cementing in the relationships with the right people?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah. I mean, you already said it, which is the spreadsheet. Spreadsheet is king. So I have a column in there for when I initially contacted them. I also say how I contacted them, so if it was through a phone call or email or whatever, and have a date for follow up. And usually I'll do two to three follow ups. Actually, I take that back. I'd say now I do two to three follow up since I get direct leads. However, starting out, I wouldn't be too hesitant to just keep following up until you get a response. Don't be annoying necessarily, but there is one venue that I probably contacted 12 to 15 times before I finally got a response, and maybe they just got fed up, like, okay, just take the gig so you leave us alone. But it can definitely work.

Logan Thomas:
So like I said, you don't want to be rude or overbearing with it, but definitely just every week or two, just follow up. That's what's great about emails. You can keep the email chain going. So with a phone call, it can be a little more difficult to get the same person on the phone and they might not remember you. The next time, it's someone different. But that is the benefit to email, is that you can keep track of if they responded, that kind of thing. I would say the phone call is probably the most powerful, but it also can be difficult to get the right person on the phone. So I'd say if you're the type of person that is a little nervous about the phone call side of things, start with email.

Logan Thomas:
But yeah, the follow up is so important, and I wouldn't hesitate to follow up really as long as it takes to get a response. If you get a response that's no, don't follow up in that case. But if they just haven't responded, don't be afraid to keep reaching out, because a lot of times, these people that you're reaching out to, they're really busy and maybe they saw it and forgot to respond. Maybe they never saw it in the first place. So it usually just comes down to they're busy and it's not that they're ignoring you. They just haven't had a chance to respond. And if you keep following up, eventually it'll be the right place at the right time and they'll have a chance to get back to you.

Michael Walker:
Absolutely. That's such a good point that, yeah, like you said, you don't want to be disrespectful or rude or just annoying. But I think that if you do it in a respectful way where you wait a week or two in between them, and it's just a gentle check in, then that's a really smart thing to do. And even I think that there is a side effect to doing this reach out process that when you first reach out to someone, if they don't get back to you right away, then it's better that you actually reached out to them because you're kind of planting a seed.

Michael Walker:
You're planting a seed, so if they did see it, but it just hasn't fully blossomed yet, at least they're aware of you. You're on their radar. And then as you start booking other gigs around them, they might notice you and then, "Oh yeah, I remember he reached out to me before, and then he reached out again." And now that seed was able to fully blossom. So there is that benefit to reaching out, whether immediately they get back to you or not. And some of the people, they're going to get back to you immediately.

Michael Walker:
One question for you in regards to email versus phone outreach, it sounds like phone in a lot of cases can be more powerful because there's a direct connection there. But then there's also some challenges where you have to get the right person on the phone. When it comes to phone versus email, do you always send them an email and then call them right after? Or do you call first and then email if you don't get back to them? What do you usually try to start with?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, so I usually recommend trying to call first and just asking who's in charge of booking the music. So a lot of times you won't necessarily know. So you might just call and you get an answer and just say, "Hey, I'm just curious about talking about booking live music. Who can I speak to you about that?" Sometimes you get someone on the phone. Sometimes you don't. If you don't get an answer on the phone, send them an email.

Logan Thomas:
If you get an answer on the phone, usually if they can get you to the right person, they'll probably give you their email. Sometimes it might be like, "Oh, I'm not sure. I'll have to get back to you." I will say if someone says they'll get back to you on the phone and they ask for your number, they're probably not going to get back to you. So if possible, always try to get their contact information if you can. But yeah, I'd say usually start with a phone call. If you can get to the right person, great. If not, then resort to email.

Michael Walker:
Okay, that's super smart. So let's talk a little about the next step. So you talked about how after you get some of this momentum going, you get this traction going, it's kind of like a snowball on the hill and it starts to grow. It gets momentum on its own. And now you start to have some people who are actually reaching out to you, and you're getting referrals. And can you talk a little bit of about how to best leverage that phase, that stage, like once you're at this point and the opportunity flow starts coming in. How do you recommend that people maximize their opportunity flow?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, I think at that point, definitely having a website and an online presence is always really important, but when you get to their referral stage, it's even more important because that's how people are going to find you. You know, someone says, "Oh, I saw this guy playing wherever. He was really talented. Here's his name." They go straight to you online. Number one, if they can't find you, that's a huge problem because then you probably missed out on what could have been a potential gig.

Logan Thomas:
Number two, if you don't have your presence optimized and your website looks sloppy or your videos aren't updated, you just want to make sure you have that best possible first impression. So yeah, I'd say at that stage, really having an online presence, and also things like having business cards at your live gigs or having some way for them to contact you. Just having your online presence and your general marketing stuff in place is really important for taking advantage of those referrals when they start coming in.

Michael Walker:
Cool, man. So I'm super excited talking about this with you. I think we definitely should, after this interview, let's talk more and figure out, like, I think that it'd be super valuable to put together a course that just kind of breaks all this down and has these assets in place for them, templates to be able to work through this. So that's going to be [inaudible 00:27:45].

Michael Walker:
And especially when it comes to the website, I think it would be great to have a few examples that you could share and walk through what's most important when it comes to having a professional website, so that they can make the most out of those opportunities after they do start coming in. So just at a glance, for the website, what do you think are some of the most important components of it in order for them to be able to make the best possible first impression?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah. So if I had to keep it to the top three things maybe, number one absolutely would be video content. I mean, audio is great. Obviously you're a musician so you need to have audio, but really what people want to see if they're booking you for a gig is they want to see you performing. So when I say video, I don't mean like fancy music video. I mean, it could be a really basic iPhone video of you playing a song in your room or something. But just having video footage of you doing what you do, whether it's, you know, obviously the better quality you can get, the better it'll work out for you, but really anything is better than nothing. So even if it's an iPhone of you playing at the local bar, having some kind of showcase of, hey, this is what I do, this is what I sound like, is the number one thing people are going to be looking for.

Logan Thomas:
Number two, I would say would be, I mean, I feel like your contact information is kind of a given. So I would include that. Obviously, you want to have your email or your phone number, however you want them to contact you. But another one I would say is reviews, maybe not at first, but once you do start getting some reviews, or even just reaching out to some friends and family to get a few initial reviews, the experience people have when they see you live.

Logan Thomas:
So for me, I do lots of weddings and I do kind of fill that John Mayer, Ed Sheeran kind of romantic love song type space. So a lot of my reviews are like, "I hired Logan for my wedding and it made our special day so perfect." That kind of thing. You want to make sure that you have people that are talking about not really even how talented you are, your music, but you want to have them talking about the emotions that your music made them feel, right? You want people to read those reviews and really kind of get an idea of what experience they're going to be getting by having you play music for their event. So reviews are super important.

Logan Thomas:
And three, I would say would just be links to your, and this kind of goes, I guess I would count that as the number three, would be your contact information, which includes your email, phone number, but also your Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. You want to have everything centralized on your website. Think of the website as your home base. You're going to have other content other places, and you just want to make sure that they can get to those other places. So number one, video, number two would be reviews. Number three is just having your contact info and your social media links centralized on your website.

Michael Walker:
That's so good. Yeah. And a lot of this, I mean, I think it would make a lot of sense to flesh out a review system. And I bet you might even do this already when you perform one of the weddings, or at the end, you send them an email that says like, "Hey, this was a blast. I would love to just get your feedback on the experience. Here's a quick typed form. Could you take a minute or two to just fill this out quick?"

Michael Walker:
And that could be a way to source some of these reviews, and it definitely makes sense in terms of having that video content that really just shows what they're going to get through hiring you for the event. And I bet that you could even, probably the easiest way to do that would just be to, during one of the live events that you're performing at anyways, have a friend or family member recording it professionally for you. You could maybe hire someone on Thumbtack to just come and actually record some stuff for you. Or you could have a friend or a family member bring their thousand dollar cell phone that has incredible quality video recording capabilities and just record a few of your songs.

Michael Walker:
So this is definitely a lot of good stuff, a lot of good stuff to think about. And hopefully anyone who's listening or watching this right now, their brains are turning too, in terms of figuring out an additional income stream for them to be able to hone their craft, get better at performing, and fun, you know, it's fun to play music and to perform for people. So any other final tips or advice that you have for people?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, so I think we definitely covered on some of the key things. I do kind of want to hit back on the point of the artist side of things, where you're selling tickets to shows for your own original music versus what I'm talking about with the private events. Because you made a good point earlier that they are really connected in a lot of ways, right? So I think obviously the respiratory disease that shall not be named has shaken things up a good bit. So for me personally, my career at the beginning of 2020, and right before I joined Modern Musician, or rather went through the program for the first time, I had just signed a record deal and I was getting ready to plan a tour. And I was really focusing on the artist side of things.

Logan Thomas:
Then lockdowns happened and all that kind of stuff. So I think the main reason that I've focused so much on the private events the past year or two is because we don't really have, or for a while, we didn't have the option to do those bigger shows. But I do think that next year as things really start to get back to normal, I want to integrate that a lot more. And I do think that with this year or two break that I've had from playing those types of shows as an artist, I will have a lot of stuff that I've learned that I can apply to that. And I'm sure a lot of it will translate that I haven't really even thought about yet. But I just wanted to make that note, that the reason I'm focusing so much in this right now is mainly because of COVID and the opportunities that were available. But I do think there's a lot of it that will overlap with the artist side of things as well.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Yeah, super good point. And I would love to have, when we do our first Modern Musician live conference, we'll probably need to have some really dope musical performances by some of our team members, maybe by some of our Gold Artist Academy clients or Platinum clients. So I've got a feeling in that there's going to be some space on the lineup for Logan Thomas to come out and do his thing.

Logan Thomas:
I would love to, absolutely love to.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Cool, man. So I guess last question for you would be in regards to Gold Artist Academy and joining the program, I think for a lot of people, it's going to be one of, if not the biggest, investment they've ever made in their music career, and it's kind of a big leap of faith. So could you just talk a little bit about if you could either talk to someone right now who's considering or on the fence and thinking they might want to join, or even if you could go back to your past self in time, right before you joined, and you were deciding should I do this or not, what would your advice be for them?

Logan Thomas:
Yeah, really great question. And I'm glad you brought that up. So I think my mindset at the time when I joined, I already kind of worked through some of the mental barriers. I think what it really comes down to is don't be afraid to invest in yourself. So when I did finally end up joining, I had done some programs in the past and was pretty comfortable investing money to better my career and my future and that kind of thing. So I think that's the biggest thing, is just not being afraid to invest in yourself. Don't let that stop you.

Logan Thomas:
Second thing would obviously be just vetting what you're doing. So obviously me working with Modern Musician right now, take what I say with a grain of salt and do your own research, but we have so many testimonials. Reach out to some of our clients, see that what we're doing works, that kind of thing. But yeah, I would say don't be afraid to invest in yourself is the main thing. And I would say that it's absolutely worth every penny, and it's been my experience, because I have done quite a few different types of coaching programs, and it does seem like the more expensive they are, the more value I get out of it is generally the trend that I see. So I think it's you get what you pay for at the end of the day. So don't be afraid to make the leap if it's something that you think is going to benefit your career.

Michael Walker:
Awesome. Yeah, that's super well said. Cool, man. Well, it's been a lot of fun talking with you. Thanks for coming on here and sharing your wisdom and what you've learned. Gosh, 26 years old. So for everyone who's listening or watching this right now, definitely go check out Logan Thomas. You go by Logan Thomas, right, for the music? Or is it Logan Stewart for the music?

Logan Thomas:
It's Logan Thomas music.

Michael Walker:
Yeah, Logan Thomas music. If you want your ears to be happy, then go check it out. And definitely excited to talk more to you. I mean, another thing you can expect, you're literally seeing the seeds of ideas planted here while we're talking, but I'm definitely excited to talk more with Logan and see if we can work together to create a new bonus course or something that really kind of fleshes out all the ideas and turns it into a step by step template for you to be able to implement and add this to your arsenal of tools in your belt that you can use for your music career.

Logan Thomas:
Yes, love it.

Michael Walker:
Hey, it's Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about the guest today. And if you want to support the podcast, then there's a few ways to help us grow. First, if you hit subscribe, then I'll make sure you don't miss a new episode. Secondly, if you share it with your friends or on your social media, tag us. That really helps us out. And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review, it's going to help us reach more musicians like you, who want to take their music career to the next level. The time to be a modern musician is now, and I'll look forward to seeing you on our next episode.