Bree Noble: And so, I really do believe in email lists for whatever business that you have. When I was a freelance musician, I had started an email list for that as well. And that is how I really was able to get that cycle of booking continuous because I was in front of them constantly. Once a week I would send an email about something that I was doing. So they would see that I was doing stuff; that I was active. And I would get bookings just because I was on top of mind for them when they were an event coordinator or whatever. They were having a retreat. They needed somebody. They automatically thought of me because I was in their inbox. Staying consistent with that email is hard, but it's so worth it because you are building up assets that are going to feed your business for years to come.

Michael Walker: It's easy to get lost in today's music industry with constantly changing technology and where anyone with a computer can release their own music. I'm going to share with you why this is the best time to be an independent musician and it's only getting better. If you have high-quality music, but you just don't know the best way to promote yourself so that you can reach the right people and generate a sustainable income with your music, we're going to show you the best strategies that we're using right now to reach millions of new listeners every month without spending 10 hours a day on social media. We're creating a revolution in today's music industry and this is your invitation to join me. I'm your host, Michael Walker.

All right. So I'm excited to be back here today with my friend Bree Noble. So Bree has been in the music industry for a long time now, after she left her corporate job to pursue a music career full-time. She, for about seven years, toured full time as a singer/songwriter, released three albums, she won multiple awards, she even performed the national anthem at Dodgers Stadium for over 60,000 people. And she founded the “women of substance radio”, which is an online station that helps promote female artists and turned it into a podcast. And she rebranded her company to: The Profitable Musician. I'm really excited to have her on the podcast today, because we're going to talk about that exactly; about how in the music industry in particular, it can be a challenging place to focus on creating a career and have a sustainable income. And I know for a lot of musicians, one of their biggest questions is: how do I actually make an income when Spotify pays so little? So Bree: thank-you so much for coming on the podcast again today to talk a little bit about how to help artists not be a starving artist and actually make a sustainable income with their music.

Bree Noble: Thank-you. I know that's a big focus for you as well. So I'm glad to be here. And as I told Michael earlier, I've got a cough so I've got a cough drop going on. So hopefully that won't be a problem, but I've got a nice, low, sexy… my voice has dropped about one octave. [both laughing]

Michael: Sounds good. Yeah. We were joking earlier… It was like dark humor. We were getting dark humor. It's like: Every time you cough violence was included. No high pressure stakes here, but every cough represents a child dying. [laughing] So no pressure. But anyways, circling back around... I probably didn't even need to bring up the dark humor. Let’s kick things off! We're gonna talk about something really positive, but first let's talk about…. Maybe you could briefly share your story as it relates to building a special music career and also just understanding how you're able to help artists go from starving artists to actually making a sustainable income with their music.

Bree: Sure. I think the biggest thing about what I do is it really isn't inside the music industry. I never really ever set foot inside “the music industry”. And I'm so glad that I didn't because there's so many more opportunities and options outside of what people think of as the traditional music industry. I grew up: I loved choirs. I was in all these choirs when I was in high school that really got me into music and singing. And it's so fun now because my daughter is a freshman in high school and she's in this really amazing choir and they're going to get to go to Carnegie Hall this year. And so it's like: ah, I remember how I really got hooked on music: By doing so many choirs in high school and solo competitions and things. And then I went to college and was getting a degree in music in vocal performance and about halfway through I got super practical and I was like: I have no idea what I'm going to do with this degree in music and so maybe I should also get a degree in business cause I really like numbers and stuff like that and I've always been entrepreneurial. And so I got a double degree in music, vocal performance, and then business, and focused on accounting and management. And when I left college, I really still had no idea how I was going to use my music degree. They gave me no help whatsoever. So I immediately started going to work in accounting cause I knew how to get a job in accounting. And I worked in accounting for several years and then I really wasn't excited about where I was working. And of course I love the arts. I love music. I wanted to work in the arts. And so I managed to find a position as director of finance at an opera company at one of the top 15 opera companies in the US. So that was really cool. I never wanted to sing opera really as a main focus, but I really enjoyed being around all the people in the arts and really putting amazing things on the stage. But the thing with it was: I still wanted to have a music career myself. And so here I was writing all these checks to all these amazing opera artists that were living their dream. Actually, the biggest check I ever wrote was a $250,000 check to Placido Domingo, which was pretty cool. But here I am writing all these checks.

Michael: [sarcasticall] Oops. I accidentally wrote my own name!

Bree: Oh yeah. Darn it. Darn it. I know. [both laughing] But what I really want to be doing is what they're doing, not on the opera stage, but as a singer/songwriter. And I started to get really frustrated because I saw all these people living their dreams and being the artist they wanted to be and creating their legacy in the world and I was just in the backroom writing checks. So I started figuring out: how am I going to pursue my own music career? And that was definitely a journey. I struggled a lot. I was trying to be in all these bands because I thought I'm not good enough or cool enough on my own to draw an audience. I knew I was a good singer. I thought I was a decent songwriter. I could play a little keyboard, but I just didn't feel confident in myself. And so I was constantly trying to fit myself into these other bands that I would find on the recycler, which is like the classifieds for musicians in LA. And they were just always a disaster. I was in this one… first of all, the fit was terrible. Like I'm a singer/songwriter in an adult contemporary style. I can also sing classical and Broadway and stuff like that, and Christian. And here I was like in this band of 4 other guys doing hard rock just because I wanted to be on stage. I was just like: this is not working out. And then I was in this all female group. It was like early 2000s alternative-style music, trying to be one of those early 2000s all… kinda what Michael's group was when he was out there performing. [both laughing] We were trying to be the female version of that. And it was just… it didn't… it wasn't me. It wasn't using my talents. And I felt like I was trying to turn myself into something that I wasn't. And so once I finally decided…. I got so frustrated that I'm like: I don't even care if I have a big career in music; if I get signed; if I'm on all these big stages… I just want to do stuff in music and I don't care what it looks like. And once I said that and stopped trying to mold myself into something that I wasn't and embrace the brand that I actually was and the kind of music that I was actually good at creating, that was really when I started making headway. And the other thing that I did is that I started thinking about myself as a business. I stopped thinking of myself as a musician solely. Because what I would do is even though I had this business career; this business head on my shoulders and all this experience in business in running an $8.5 million opera company, as soon as I started working on my music, I just started thinking like a starving artist; started thinking like a musician where I like had to get the right people's attention and things like that. And so once I was like, okay what if I just ran this as if I just opened a bakery or a coffee shop down the street. How would I get attention? How would I start building a following and all that kind of stuff? And that's really when my career turned a corner because I stopped caring about being part of the traditional music industry and I started thinking about it more like a business. At that point I just started building my following slowly and started booking myself. Started in smaller venues and I started booking… I actually created a presentation where I would tell stories and also sing. And then I had a program to book, and so I started booking myself at a lot of different smaller conferences and churches and women's groups and things like that. And that's really when things took off for me. I know we'll get into some of the nitty gritty on this in a minute, but I just wanted to finish how I ended up here. As I was out there performing and meeting all these other female artists like myself, it's wow: there's so many amazing female artists. Why am I not hearing them on the radio? On Sirius XM? This is before Spotify was really big. But I was like, why am I not hearing them? And so I started this thing called Women of Substance, which was an online radio station. It became a podcast and it was just all about creating a platform for great female artists. We're still doing that today. I just recorded episode number 1570, I believe.

Michael: Wow!

Bree: So yeah, it's kinda crazy. We put out about 10 shows a month. And then that just snowballed into: I was dealing with all these female artists, a lot of them didn't have any support. They didn't know how to market themselves. They didn't really have any clue about how to run their music as a business. They started asking me a lot of questions. And that's when I started working with female artists and started my podcast: the female entrepreneur musician. And I started that in 2015 and that brand eventually grew into: The Profitable Musician. I had several summits where I was helping musicians make more money from music. So that's our umbrella brand now, but I still very much focus on female artists. So we have resources that help all artists, but I love having a community specifically for female artists, because a lot of us, I remember being there, are very much an island and we feel like we don't know who we can trust. We don't know where to get advice and stuff like that. And we just don't have a lot of support sometimes, maybe from our spouse, our family, our parents, whatever, they might not believe in us. And so that's what I love to do is to just really raise up women in music. That was a lot, sorry.

Michae: It was a lot, but it was amazing. Yeah. for sharing. And it's a good reminder of: it seems like where things really started to gain traction for you is when you stopped trying to be somebody else and you started to fully embrace who you are and the music came out of that. And also like your business acumen came out of that. You found ways to actually build a sustainable business out of it that weren't necessarily the traditional way that you thought it should be or what people might have expected. I'm personally interested. I'm fascinated by this question of: our roots versus our transformations, our identity, our ideal identity, and that contrast between being yourself and being who you are and also setting goals and wanting to become someone else and transforming. And I'm curious to hear your perspective on that as relates to finding your own power and coming into yourself as well as, setting goals, and how do you find that balance? Because like on one end of the spectrum if the final outcome was: just completely be yourself, then we would do nothing or we wouldn't grow or we wouldn't evolve, we wouldn't change because it's okay, cool. I'm me and that's it. But at the same time, there's this paradox, cause you evolve and you transform but maybe it's still you the whole time. So I'm just curious to hear your perspective as it relates to someone who has big dreams and they're not where they want to be yet. How do you recommend they authentically express themselves and you come from a place of them being who they are while also being able to plug into their goals of who they're becoming and their ideal transformation?

Bree: Yeah. Totally. Number one, you have to get out of your comfort zone and you have to do it scared. There is going to be a lot of scary moments. And so one of the reasons that I was always trying to grab onto the coattails of other bands is that I wanted to be safe. I thought: well let me just fit myself into something they already have because then I don't have to put myself out there. I can just just… Not hide in the background, but show off my talents, but not have to be the center of attention and also not have to do the work of figuring out who I am outside of myself to the world, right? What can I give? How can I inspire people that is different from others? And that means that you have to really look into yourself and be willing to talk about things that are uncomfortable. When I started doing my songs and stories, it was a personal journey kind of program and talking about things that I went through as a child and perseverance and learning how to overcome obstacles and stuff like that. And I knew that would be helpful to other people, but it was also helpful to me to put all that down and have to say it in front of other people because then I couldn't hide anymore. One thing that I learned is like doing it before you're ready, because certainly the first time that I ever did that program, I was not ready, and I was a bit shaky and all that, but I did it in front of a room of 50 people and not 500. If your first interview that you do is on a very small podcast, that's better! Give yourself a chance to get comfortable in front of the microphone. So another thing that I was really uncomfortable about was I didn't think that I could play and sing by myself. I was in a band and I could keep up with the keyboard. I learned how to play and sing while in a band with the keyboard, but I knew that if for some reason I got lost, I dropped out, I played a wrong chord… It would keep going because it wasn't all up to me. But then I found it very difficult to book myself with a band because all my bandmates had jobs and they weren't looking to be full-time musicians. And so I couldn't book myself on tour. And so I'm like: I have to solve this problem. I have to figure this out. And so I was devoted to figuring out how to play and sing in a way that I was comfortable in doing it. Now, I booked my first gig doing that before I felt comfortable. Because you gotta book out, right? I booked out three months because otherwise you won't… especially if you're doing conferences and things like that, you gotta book out. I booked it even though I wasn't ready. And I'm like, I have a fallback plan. I can use tracks as much as I need to, if I have to. I don't want to, but I will. Or I can play along with a track or whatever, but then I spent every day, at least 30 minutes a day working on it. I set a goal that I couldn't back out of because I had booked myself. So I think that's really what has worked for me a lot because If you wait for it to be perfect, either you'll have to wait too long. Because now you got it perfect. Okay. Now I'm going to book! Oh, now they're already booked up for the next six months, and then you're going to go stale. Your excitement is going to wane. So you gotta book and then get ready. I'm not saying don't book when you've never performed anywhere before. Go out there and do some open mics or whatever, get your experience. But I had experience, but this one thing was holding me back. And so I just said: I'm going to do it. I'm going to set this goal and I'm going to set it in stone. I can't back out now and I'm going to figure it out. And I think that's what's moved me forward. When I started my female musician academy, there was nothing inside. I'd created no courses or anything. And I was just like: I'm going to create this thing… Who wants to come on this journey with me? And I had never created a course before, but I did it cause I knew… I believed that I could. And I knew that I'd figure it out. And with the pressure of people putting up their hand and saying: I want to do it and pulling out their wallet and saying: I believe in you, here's some money, that gave me the goal and the pressure to get it done. And I did it and now I've created tons of courses. That first one's always the hardest and you got to raise the stakes on yourself.

Michael: Super powerful. Yeah. So it sounds this part of getting started before you feel ready before it's perfect, because, if you don't do that, then it's, spoiler alert, it's never perfect. It's never going to be perfect. And the fear can cause you to push it out and you can lose winning interest. So starting by throwing your hat over the fence, having accountability has been something that's really helped you to actually show up and face the fear and make stuff happen.

Bree: Yup!

Michael: I've found the exact same thing true in my own life and that's generally how all the movement happens in my own life is like I said: accountability, I set goals and then I throw my hat over the fence or I have to do it. One question in particular I'd be curious to hear from your experience, because I know that a lot of artists who are listening to this right now might be going through something similar where they have a day job or they something that's currently paying the bills or supporting them and maybe their dream is to make a transition like you made from corporate life to actually going all in on your music. I'm assuming that, when you made that transition it wasn't like immediately you had a super successful career and everything's figured out, but it was more so like you talked about making a decision to do it, believing in yourself, then then making that decision. I'd be curious to hear your perspective on that specific decision and for someone that's listening to this right now, who maybe they're interested in making that leap of faith themselves, but they're just trying to figure out the best way to do that. How would you encourage them to think about moving from a corporate job or another job to doing their music full-time?

Bree: Yeah. I don't encourage artists to jump without a net. I had a net. I was making more than my husband at the time because he was a new professor. And I was like: I can't do this unless I know for sure that there's something to cover me if it takes a while, right? And it does. It took me a while once I really started booking myself, it took me a year to be to the point where I was getting all these referrals and I didn't have to make a million cold calls and stuff like that. And it becomes a cycle, right? You get rebookings and all that. You got to know that you've got to have at least a year or two where you're not going to have this solid ground. And so having something to fall back on for us, it worked out that it was that time in the housing market in California where things were really going up quickly. And so we were able to sell our house and we had this seed of money so if we needed to dip into it, we could. And that was really helpful. I don't encourage artists to just jump out entirely on faith because then you get this desperation and like the smell of desperation. Like, you can tell, I remember interviewing people in corporate and I could tell when someone really needed this job and it was a weird, uncomfortable feeling. Even though, I'm thinking to myself, there's nothing wrong with them needing this job, but somehow it just, it made it feel strange whereas the person that comes in that already has a job and they're like: Oh, here's my qualifications, not take it or leave it, buy I'm good if you don't choose me. And I think that's where artists get in trouble because you're like: I'm going to throw everything in and all that stuff and then you only have three months rent and then if things don't go well out the gate, then you're going to be approaching bookings in a much more desperate position and people are going to be able to tell, and they're going to wonder why it is that you don't have your bookings filled already and that's gonna make them think: maybe they're really not that good. Maybe they sound good on a recording, but when they're live, they're not very good. Why don't they have a full schedule? That kind of thing. So if you can do what I did and I lucked out, that's great. But if not, then keep a part-time job. Keep a way to feel stable because you're not going to make good decisions unless you have a solid foundation under you. You're going to be flailing and making bad choices and doing things just because you need the money versus it making sense for your career. Yeah, I don't recommend people just go cold turkey and jump into the pool without anything.

Michael: Yeah, that's super helpful. The perspective of, just from the analogy of: if you want to learn how to swim, there's good ways you can learn how to swim. You're not going to do a very good job learning how to swim if you're just dipping your toes in the water and you're like: Oh should I? Should I not? So it's always better to jump into the pool as quickly as possible. But if you don't know how to swim, jumping into the deep end of the pool, by yourself in particular, is not necessarily what you'd recommend because you could drown. So it's nice to have a life vest on. So you can jump in and you know that you have the net, and worst case scenario you're going to be okay. And that's going to help you come from a place where you're less desperate. You don't need it as much, which will change just how you show up. Super interesting. Another way to have a safety net is if you have someone like yourself or you have a mentor or someone that can teach you how to swim while you're in the pool and worst case scenario you're, they're going to be able to help keep you up. Okay. We do have a live audience that's here right now, and I think it'd be fun to invite one of them onto stage to be able to ask a question, specifically as it relates to what you just shared Bree, and specifically as it relates to having a profitable, sustainable business as a musician in today's day and age.

So if you have any questions you'd like to ask Bree, feel free to raise your hand and come up here live on stage. I see a VoZ has his hand up. So let's bring on VoZ. Hey, VoZ, how you doing today?

VoZ: Doing great, Michael, and thank-you so much. And Bree, thank, thank-you. We appreciate you coming here. You have a wealth of advice. I've heard you before on, I think, one of Michael's programs, and it was very helpful. I think you're doing a great job with your website and with your program. Could you expound on some of the experiences you've had with your clients, on how you've mentored them as Michael is attempting to mentor us in a practical experience that could give us some direction and sense of meaning for how it fits into our own individual lives? Thank-you.

Bree: Sure.

Michael: Thanks, Voz!

Bree: So a lot of the mentoring that I do is on the marketing side, similar to what Michael does. I am a very big proponent of email. When I started my women of substance, I was, luckily, very smart and I started an email list immediately and I got every artist that I was working with on women of substance on my email list. And so then when I started my coaching and mentoring, I had a huge list already of women who might need my help. And so that's really what allowed me to make that easy transition. I really do believe in email lists for whatever business that you have. When I was a freelance musician, I had started an email list for that as well. And that is how I really was able to get that cycle of booking continuous because I was in front of them constantly. Once a week I would send an email about something that I was doing. So they would see that I was doing stuff, that I was active, I would share some things from some events that I had done, some photos, that kind of stuff. And I would get bookings just because I was on top of mind for them when they suddenly were an event coordinator or whatever. They were having a retreat. They needed somebody. They automatically thought of me because I was in their inbox. Some of what I work with, especially with my private clients, is helping them with their email. Keeping/staying consistent is such a hard thing because you've got a busy schedule as an artist: you're touring, you're writing music, you're recording, there's so many moving pieces and staying consistent with that email is hard, but it's so worth it because you are building up assets that are going to feed your business for years to come. I have people that were with me from 2006 when I started performing and they are still remembering me, they're still sending me messages on social media and things like that because I nurtured that in the beginning. I'd say number 1 is making sure that you stay consistent with your email list and also having an entry sequence of some kind to really deepen that relationship immediately and quickly. So when they first get on your list, having a sequence where they're really getting to know you because that is the point when they are the most excited, right? So you may as well, really. Don't feel bad about sending them three or four emails. One a day when they first come in, because they've just discovered your music or they just seen you live. They're so excited about it and they want to know more and they're not going to be like: ah, stop emailing me. They signed up for this email list. They want to know about you. So I think, practical advice, I think that's some of the best advice that I can give you is be out there on social media and stuff, but the way that you're going to really deepen the relationship is through email. So make sure that everywhere that you are, whether it's social media, it's livestreaming, it is in-person that you have a way to get people to sign up on your email list and that you remember to ask them to do it. That's something that I work with artists, let's set up a QR code. Let's figure out how you can get this into your slides. If you're doing a presentation, let's figure out how we can put this more prevalently on your website or in your livestreams that you're doing online. And a lot of times artists just are so focused on all the other things that they aren't thinking about that. And they are missing out on a million opportunities.

Michael: Yeah that's so good. You're speaking my language for sure. You know that. Email’s huge cornerstone of building a successful online business. Speaking of which, I think a great question I'd love to hear your perspective on is, and for a lot of artists, they might have the similar question is: how do you invite people to join your email list in a way that isn't: Hey, join my monthly newsletter because you want me to email you! How do you position it and how do you actually invite people to join your email list in a way that works?

Bree: I think the biggest thing is exclusive content. Exclusivity, or maybe even just getting to know things before other people. For me, I joined newsletters because I want to know when they're going to be in my city. I want to see them perform. So if you're a performer, even just saying that might be enough. Like: Hey, we let people know when we're going to be nearby so you can get tickets. Or: we'll be offering an exclusive after party experience just for people on our email list. Like, that kind of thing. An exclusive content maybe once a month you send out a behind the song video that's owned only to your email list. I think it's less like back in the day when it was like: Oh, get a free download. That's not that exciting anymore. So you gotta be more creative. And in the early times when you're only getting 1 person to join your email list a day unless you're doing a show where you're getting a bunch, but you can literally send them a video and say: I want to personally welcome you to my email list. I'm going to send you a video and tell them that. And then just send a personal video that says: Hey, this is Bree. I'm so excited you're on my email list. I can't wait to get to know you! Whatever you want to say. You could even, I don't know, put like fun fact about yourself that you don't talk about all the time, and make it feel exclusive. So I think that's the biggest thing. Be creative. Be on brand, if you can: Come up with something that you offer that's really on brand for you and make it exclusive or getting the scoop before everybody else.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah, super smart. And so basically having an exclusive resource or something that the only place to get it is, you're going to send it to their email inbox.Yeah, it definitely seems as in the music industry, in particular, fans love being able to get early access to songs before they're released somewhere publicly. So lots of cool stuff you can do with having a private community.

Cheryl: Yeah. Or you could even do a reverse engineering type thing. So like maybe you're on stage and you just perform this awesome song. And then afterward you say: want to hear the original demo of that song? Or: want to hear an acoustic version that we don't normally play? Here's the QR code and you can get access to that!

Michael: Cool. All right. Awesome. Let's say that someone is doing a good job now of inviting people to join their email list. They have a QR code when they're performing live. They have a good incentive or resource as people are actually joining. How do they take people who are subscribers and actually offer them things and sell them things in a way that doesn't come across as overly salesy or pitchy, but in a way that actually allows them to make sales and to provide value to their fans?

Cheryl: Yeah, I think people are on your list because they do want to know about your stuff, so don't be shy. Just make it fun. Also get them involved in the creation process. So maybe you're creating some new merch, and you email out: Hey, here are the 3 shirt designs that we're thinking of. Which one do you like best? That kind of thing, or even do a contest with them: Hey, if you're a designer, like we're looking for shirt designs! Send us your ideas and if yours wins, you get X, Y, Z, you get some bundle or something. So then people are involved in the creation process. And then when it comes out, they're excited. I see this a lot. My daughter preordered something like two months ahead or something because she really loved this creator and she wanted this thing that they made and they were hyping it up and people are willing to do that. They want to be in the process of creation. And then when it gets there, they're going to be excited and there'll be on social media showing that they're wearing it, that kind of thing. I think offering experiences especially like after-show or pre-show get togethers or like green room or whatever. That's the type of thing people are on your email list for. So, I don't think you have to feel like you're salesy if you're offering them that or that you're telling them that you're performing. That's why they're there. What I would do is, like I said, that intro sequence. I would definitely offer them something in there. Because like I said, that's when they're the hottest, is when they first come in, they first discovered you, and they want something to remember you by, or continue the relationship. And, back in the day when we would sell CDs at shows, that could be that thing like people would be at the show. They're like, oh my gosh, I love this. I want to take something home to remember it by and to be able to listen to. And I sold a ton of cds that way now. We don't have that as much anymore but I think we can use merch and things like that to continue that connection. Also, if you give them like a lot of value on the front end, if you're offering them maybe some free exclusive stuff in your initial sequence, then when they get to the end and you offer them something to buy, a lot of times they'll be like: wow, I've gotten so much from this artist. I totally want to support them. And they will buy it. So it's that reciprocity; that feeling like I feel like I should support them because they've already given me so much. 

Michael: Super smart. One thing that you just remind me of in terms ofthe CDs and offering a CD after show, one thing I'm really excited about that we started to fulfill for our artists is these, we're bouncing between a few different ideas for names for them… We've thought about calling them music cards, a VIP cards, inner circle cards but the idea is that you could actually do exactly what you're saying, have an exclusive piece of content, like an exclusive song or an exclusive demo or video and when someone holds us up next to their phone, it goes “bloop”, and basically automatically redirects them to the portal where they can access this exclusive content. And I think this would be a really interesting item to be able to have at live shows, because someone could actually get something exclusive and something you'd sign as well. And something that's like a link to your community so that they can scan, they can enter your community. Maybe there's some sort of gamification around it where they can get points to be able to do meaningful things in your community where they can request songs and use their points to be able to unlock things. So yeah, we're exploring that right now, but these cards are cool. And I think it would go really nicely with all the stuff that you've been talking about.

Bree: Yeah, that's fun. I like that.

Michael: Bree, it's been an awesome connection with you again. Thank-you for coming on here and sharing your story and for everything that you're doing to help inspire and help artists to be able to do music full-time. In that analogy with learning how to swim, you're like a coach who's helping people have courage to jump into the pool and helping them to learn how to swim so they don't drown. So it's very appreciated. And for everyone that's here right now that is interested in learning more about the resources that you offer, what would be the best place for them to go to dive deeper?

Bree: Yeah: ProfitableMusician.com. On the front page there, we have our 39 little known streams of income that you probably haven't considered as a musician. And then of course our podcast there. We have had 120 episodes of the profitable musician show. You can just click on the podcast there and you'll access sit. What we focus on the show is really offering people ideas on streams of income or ways to be more profitable as a musician.

Michael: Awesome. Cool. [sarcastically] I don't know if anyone listening to this podcast is interested in podcasts.

Bree: [sarcastically] No, I don't think so.

Michael: Where's my? [dun dun duuunn sound affect] [bu dum dum tsseeeee sound affect] There we go. It was very dramatic different ones side by side with different vibe entirely. Cool. Like always, we'll put the links on the show notes for easy access. And Bree let's do a virtual round of applause. Thank-you for coming on the show today. It's been super, super valuable.

Bree: Thank-you.

Michael: Yeaaaahhhh. Hey, it’s Michael here. I hope that you got a ton of value out of this episode. Make sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our guest today, and if you want to support the podcast then there’s a few ways to help us grow.

First if you hit ‘subscribe’ then that’s make sure you don’t miss a new episode. Secondly if you share it with your friends, on social media, tag us - that really helps us out.

And third, best of all, if you leave us an honest review it’s going to help us reach more musicians like you take their music to the next level. The time to be a Modern Musician is now, and I look forward to seeing you on our next episode.